Re: "Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort')

by lj 11.05.14 23:35

stillsloppingout wrote:
frost wrote:My worry is should any arrests take place and they be of anyone who took part in the holiday with all the media attention over the last 7 years could they claim they could not have a fair trial and indeed get off on a technicality and then perhaps end up being given new identities at the expense of the British taxpayer ?

I dearly hope not but it is a fear that I have .

if it does ever go to trial can you imagine the streets outside the courts ? I think the public backlash would be on a scale never witnessed before .
IMO There will be no arrests , as this programme in Portugal shows in case we don't only know is that the " investigation " is just posturing by SY , they are a laughing stock ,but they don't care .

The only sincere thing Redwood [ aka Lord Charles ] has said where his facial expression mirrored what was coming out of his mouth was when he said Neither the McCann's or any of there friends are suspects .

This whole charade is just that . I suggest Exclusive pix pack a wide angle lens as i half expect SY to burst on the scene next week like the opening scene from apocalypse now.
[Ps love the "staged " shot through the window in Portugal to give the impression they were being papped !!!! ] too funny

Thanks stillslopping. Funny I just used the word charade too.

by Liz Eagles 11.05.14 23:50

What next? Andy and the covert crew sky dive into Portugal on a night raid with a handy photographer?

"Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort') - Page 14 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRB5j7fgyaORildi9fLqFaaaJoIVfnJz7ofeviRuwCt3nAmWKM_

"Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort') - Page 14 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRB5j7fgyaORildi9fLqFaaaJoIVfnJz7ofeviRuwCt3nAmWKM_

by Okeydokey 12.05.14 0:01

aquila wrote:What next? Andy and the covert crew sky dive into Portugal on a night raid with a handy photographer?

No, that's too low profile for them. They need something that will really grab the front pages.

by espeland 12.05.14 0:29

Poor Maddie. A British police chief who just wants to be on TV uses Maddie's parents' claims to show off - and comes to Portugal to meddle in the Portuguese investigation.

Perhaps the performance was not intended for the British or Portuguese public, but for the attention of a certain group of nine.

I really don't believe an afternoon 'trip' in a military helicopter can be arranged the same morning.

If British television shows images of the group walking through PdL or our papers picture them enjoying a Coke in their favourite cafe over there, chances are increased that the target group will notice and the pressure on them increased.

by ultimaThule 12.05.14 1:03

frost wrote:My worry is should any arrests take place and they be of anyone who took part in the holiday with all the media attention over the last 7 years could they claim they could not have a fair trial and indeed get off on a technicality and then perhaps end up being given new identities at the expense of the British taxpayer ?

I dearly hope not but it is a fear that I have .

if it does ever go to trial can you imagine the streets outside the courts ? I think the public backlash would be on a scale never witnessed before .

In the scenario you've outlined and based on what I've read and seen of the Portuguese media's coverage, imo there would be a case for claiming that a fair trial could not be had in Portugal. However, with regard to the UK's media coverage and again imo, this would not be the case in the event that a criminal trial was scheduled to take place in the courts of England/Wales.

With regard to 'new identities', and yet again imo, it would be unlikely for this provision to be made in such circumstances but as much of this case would appear to be unprecedented, it seems to me that this eventuality cannot be entirely ruled out. That said, should anyone who customarily resides in the UK be charged in connection with this case and acquitted on a technicality, it's my belief that individual would be unable to continue living in these sceptred isles.

by jeanmonroe 12.05.14 3:37

Maddie TV: The Police Show Off

11 May 2014 | Posted by Joana Morais Leave a Comment

Eduardo Cintra Torres on DCI Andy Redwood's latest media performances in the Algarve

Broadcast by CMTV, May 11, 2014
Eduardo Cintra Torres makes a weekly commentary on CMTV about TV and media and writes on Correio da Manhã newspaper.

Trancript

Eduardo Cintra Torres [ECT] - That gentleman from the Scotland Yard, that appears there [in the video inset they are showing and debating about Redwood's visit to Algarve] - it's actually a pity that we don't have a psychologist here to make his profile, not of Maddie's or of the “assassins”, but of that Scotland Yard gentleman.
I look at him and I just think: “this man just wants to appear on TV”.
With so many disappearances of children in England... did he choose the Maddie case because he would appear on TV?
And they went beyond, now they've come to Portugal to investigate.
Why is the Portuguese police being subservient to this mockery, to this televised show off - we had aerial searches in Lagos seven years later!
Aerial searches! We need to ask, what exactly is going on?!
This is the utmost ridiculous thing, a show off, something just to appear on TV.
And then they're going to open holes, searching for, eventually, the child's body at the 25 de Abril street?
Was it for this that we had the 25 de Abril [see Carnation revolution]?

João Ferreira (CMTV news anchor) [JF] - The opening of the case by the British authorities was done taking into account the media coverage?

ECT - Absolutely, that police officer from the Scotland Yard in particular pursues that [media coverage].
I believe that is a shame for the Portuguese state to allow the mediatization of an investigation that belongs to the Portuguese and not to the English.
If we tried to do the same in England, would they allow it?.......... Obviously not.

JF - They were authorized by the Attorney General's Office...

ECT - Of course, it's the old alliance issue.

JF - Thank you, Eduardo.

Opinion Article excerpt
Maddie TV: poor child

Poor Maddie.
A British police chief who just wants to be on TV uses Maddie's parents tenet to show off and comes to Portugal to meddle in the Portuguese investigation.
To show off on TV, they “investigate” idiotic leads, for the English to see [i.e. just for the sake of appearances], and they even do “aerial searches” (!!!) seven years after the child disappeared.
An embarrassment to him and to the Portuguese state.

in Correio da Manhã, May 11, 2014

Eduardo Cintra Torres has a M.A. Degree in Communication, Culture, and Information Technologies from ISCTE and a Degree in History from Lisbon University. He teaches Television Studies at Catholic University. He is a television and media critic at Portuguese reference newspaper Público, at CMTV (Correio da Manhã television channel) and an advertising critic at Jornal de Negócios. He authored 14 books and various academic articles on TV, media, culture and advertising and co-authored several television documentaries, he also wrote the script for the film Debaixo da Cama (2003).

OOOPPS!

I'm embarrassed to be English.

This FAUX 'investigation' by Operation Grange HAS to be taken away from the MET, BHH and DCI Redwood. (who i think has 'gone native' and has Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to the McCanns).

The UK Met Police are rapidly becoming the 'laughing stock' of the world.

Give the investigation to Steve Cotterill, who 'nailed' the Philpotts.

Just get it away from BHH.(Redwood's boss)

Even IF Redwood 'produced' 10 cast iron 'patsys' no one would now BELIEVE him!

But he's brought all the 'ridicule' on himself, and his 'elites', all by himself.

Even if the McCanns said to him now' it's a fair cop, guv, we did it' he'd send them away, with a flea in their ear, and tell them 'don't be silly, it was an abduction by a paedo stranger, cos that's what the remit i was given says'

It's embarrassing to the nth degree!

by ChippyM 12.05.14 4:46

i'm keeping in mind that the opinions of the Portuguese press are based on speculation just like our press and similar to what we're doing here. Nobody has any solid info on what SY or PJ are really doing and whether the helicopter ride was just for show.

by Atomic Peanut 12.05.14 9:15

ChippyM wrote:i'm keeping in mind that the opinions of the Portuguese press are based on speculation just like our press and similar to what we're doing here. Nobody has any solid info on what SY or PJ are really doing and whether the helicopter ride was just for show.

Indeed, for all we know the helicopter may have been employed to confirm aerial images obtained from Google Earth, ie to check out escape routes, rather than finding places to dig

by Dutchgirl 12.05.14 9:24

Madeleine McCann resort dig gets the go-ahead
THIS is the wasteland where police are expected to start a renewed search for clues about Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

Share

12

By Jerry Lawton/Published 12th May 2014

"Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort') - Page 14 Praia_da_luz-378435

RADAR PROBE: The image shows wasteland where police are expected to search and the appartment where the McCanns stayed [JONATHAN BUCKMASTER]

A judge has given the go-ahead for officers to scour the area with high-tech radar equipment.

It is just 100 yards from the apartment from which the then three-year-old vanished in May 2007 while her doctor parents Kate, 46, and Gerry, 45, were dining nearby.

The couple are today expected to light candles and say prayers at a small party to mark Madeleine’s 11th birthday.

Sources said the “field operation” will begin in the Portuguese holiday resort of Praia da Luz within days.

The first area to be examined is one the size of three football pitches across the road from the Ocean Club resort where the McCanns were staying when Madeleine disappeared.

Holiday flats funded by Irish investors were going to be built on the land until the economic crisis forced the project’s cancellation.

Land near the resort’s Our Lady of the Light Church – where the McCanns prayed for Madeleine’s safe return – is also expected to be examined.

"Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort') - Page 14 105274

"Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort') - Page 14 105274

MISSING: It has been over seven years since Maddie went missing [PA]

Kate McCann wrote:“We love you and we’re waiting for you and we’re never going to give up”

Yesterday Brit Nancy Thompson, who runs The Bull pub in Praia da Luz, said she fears the town will become a “circus”.

She said: “Why didn’t they do this at the time?

"Why are they going to do it when tourists are here?

“It will be like a circus town.

"I just can’t believe they are going to do that.”

Mayor Victor Mata said if locals had spotted anything suspicious since Madeleine vanished they would have reported it.

“We’re here every day,” he said.

“If we had the slightest doubt we would have told police.”

Some residents have complained at the effort being put into the search compared to that for local worker Ricardo Fernandes, who disappeared in April.

Madeleine’s parents continue to believe she will be found alive.

In a BBC interview Kate sent a message, pledging: “We love you and we’re waiting for you and we’re never going to give up.”

by HelenMeg 12.05.14 9:35

ChippyM wrote:i'm keeping in mind that the opinions of the Portuguese press are based on speculation just like our press and similar to what we're doing here. Nobody has any solid info on what SY or PJ are really doing and whether the helicopter ride was just for show.

I'm also trying to remain open minded as events can be twisted and portrayed depending as to which side you sit.
If this situation had been allowed to be resolved by the PJ back in MAY 2007 without political interference then this whole charade would have been avoided. Heads should roll over this.
It remains to be seen what AR is up to.... a whitewash or otherwise. For me its 50 - 50 as to which it will be

by **PeterMac** 12.05.14 9:49

Was there ever a mention of Smithman carrying a spade and pickaxe ?

by Garrincha 12.05.14 10:09

Re several comments above: if they try the “can’t get a fair trial because of all the negative publicity” angle, the response should be simple: show the judge the thousands upon thousands of (ongoing) “pro” MSM articles which stressed “abduction….parents exonerated, etc” and say: “in light of these it might well be argued that we can’t get a fair prosecution……but we’ll be happy give it a go”

by Dutchgirl 12.05.14 10:15

PeterMac wrote:Was there ever a mention of Smithman carrying a spade and pickaxe ?

Martin Brunt has continously mentioned the Smith s sighting in regards to the DIG - he mentions that may be one place of importance as a group of Holiday makers "saw a man walk down this road - towards the beach, which may of course also be of interest to Police" - I have faith in the fact they are mentioning this as the Yard and PJ must know that Lord and Lady McCann sat on the E-Fit for five years!

by **Tony Bennett** 12.05.14 10:18

PeterMac wrote:Was there ever a mention of Smithman carrying a spade and pickaxe ?

It was very dark at the time.

The street lighting, such as it was, was described as 'very dim'.

The Smiths say they only saw this man for a second or two.

They couldn't really see his face properly as it was hidden by the child he was carrying.

They couldn't be bothered to tell the police about their sighting until Peter Smith 'phoned his Dad (Martin) the day after Murat was made a suspect and said: "Dad, am I dreaming or something, but did we see a bloke carrying a child at about 10pm two weeks ago?"

Upon which Mr Smith said something like: 'Begorrah, oi tink you may be right'.

By then, of course, their collective memories had faded a bit.

Although Martin Smith immediately recalled that it wasn't Robert Murat. Oh no.

And some time later, little Aofie Smith was to say 'I distinctly remember those little buttons all the way down that man's light coloured trousers'.

As it was so dark, dimly lit, etc. etc., who knows if he didn't have a handy spade and a shovel placed carefully behind the child?

by ChippyM 12.05.14 10:21

Dutchgirl wrote:Madeleine McCann resort dig gets the go-ahead
THIS is the wasteland where police are expected to start a renewed search for clues about Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

Share
12

By Jerry Lawton/Published 12th May 2014

RADAR PROBE: The image shows wasteland where police are expected to search and the appartment where the McCanns stayed [JONATHAN BUCKMASTER]

A judge has given the go-ahead for officers to scour the area with high-tech radar equipment.

Thanks for sharing Dutchgirl but I'm sceptical.

These are the same areas the press has been speculating about for days. Do we trust these 'Sources', and how do they get their info. from a police force that are working under secrecy?

Again in this article we have the misconception that police will dig up vast areas - they wouldn't and couldn't.

by maebee 12.05.14 10:22

No Irish person uses the word Begorrah

by Dutchgirl 12.05.14 10:23

Tony Bennett wrote:
PeterMac wrote:Was there ever a mention of Smithman carrying a spade and pickaxe ?
It was very dark at the time.

The street lighting, such as it was, was described as 'very dim'.

The Smiths say they only saw this man for a second or two.

They couldn't really see his face properly as it was hidden by the child he was carrying.

They couldn't be bothered to tell the police about their sighting until Peter Smith 'phoned his Dad (Martin) the day after Murat was made a suspect and said: "Dad, am I dreaming or something, but did we see a bloke carrying a child at about 10pm two weeks ago?"

Upon which Mr Smith said something like: 'Begorrah, oi tink you may be right'.

By then, of course, their collective memories had faded a bit.

Although Martin Smith immediately recalled that it wasn't Robert Murat. Oh no.

And some time later, little Aofie Smith was to say 'I distinctly remember those little buttons all the way down that man's light coloured trousers'.

As it was so dark, dimly lit, etc. etc., who knows if he didn't have a handy spade and a shovel placed carefully behind the child?

The Smiths left the next day - 4th May..... when the McCanns legged it back to UK (after categorically stating "we will not leave Portugal without our Madeleine") the Smiths saw Gerry walking down plane steps and noticed that the man in PT was carrying the child in the same way, He immediately called PJ who then flew over for a statement. - Mr Smith stated he is 60-80% sure the man seen carrying the child was Gerry, he spoke to Gerry on this walk - Gerry buried his head down did not respond and darted down towards the beach.

by **Tony Bennett** 12.05.14 10:25

Dutchgirl wrote:
PeterMac wrote:Was there ever a mention of Smithman carrying a spade and pickaxe ?
Martin Brunt has continously mentioned the Smith sighting in reagrds to the DIG - he mentions that may be one place of importance as a group of holiday makers "saw a man walk down this road - towards the beach, which may of course also be of interest to police" - I have faith in the fact they are mentioning this as the Yard and PJ must know that Lord and Lady McCann sat on the E-Fit for five years!

Obviously Brunt, who values his job, has read the script and remembered it!

IMO, if they are bringing the extremely doubtful 'Smith sighting' into the frame so prominently, that's more proof, if it were needed, that this is one of the most audacious charades in world history.

Just one very important point, Dutchgirl.

The two e-fits purporting to be of the same man, allegedly seen by the Smiths, WERE NOT and COULD NOT HAVE BEEN drawn up by any of the Smith family. If you listen carefully to DCI Redwood's words on the 14 October BBC CrimeWatch 'McCann Special' programme, he does not say that they were. And when you stop and think about it just for a moment, how could any of the Smiths produce an e-fit - if they never saw his face properly?

by Markus 2 12.05.14 10:26

Dutchgirl wrote:
PeterMac wrote:Was there ever a mention of Smithman carrying a spade and pickaxe ?
Martin Brunt has continously mentioned the Smith s sighting in regards to the DIG - he mentions that may be one place of importance as a group of Holiday makers "saw a man walk down this road - towards the beach, which may of course also be of interest to Police" - I have faith in the fact they are mentioning this as the Yard and PJ must know that Lord and Lady McCann sat on the E-Fit for five years!

Just looking from another viewpoint if they knew Smith had some connection to Murat then would you have your suspicions about the efit. A lot of Irish property developers over there was he one , Murat was. Last I am going to say on this or I might be called a Troll.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 12.05.14 10:26

Tony Bennett wrote:
Upon which Mr Smith said something like: 'Begorrah, oi tink you may be right'.

Big shout out to the Irish members of the forum, hope you don't mind this bit of stereotypical dialogue :)

by bobbin 12.05.14 10:29

PeterMac wrote:Was there ever a mention of Smithman carrying a spade and pickaxe ?

Maybe he didn't need a spade and pickaxe, but, did he perhaps meet up with diggerman/tractorman who was accompanied by potbelly man and smelly man, who had been hiding in the bushes that weren't there because it was wasteland, and they all did 'it'' together.

Now whether the photofits look like Jez Wilkins, who was pushing his buggy round at night, up and down the roads in the vicinity, with an 'apparently honest and simple explanation' (and no one has come forward to prove that it was 'his own son' who was in the buggy), or whether the photofit looks like Gerry, as has been indicated by Smiths, and duly kept (by the McCanns) away from public knowledge, for several years, until unfortunately, Andy Redwood destroyed the Tannerman, and produced the photofits and Smith sightings for the public to scrutinise, I do not know. spin

by Garrincha 12.05.14 10:32

to wlbts: ee bah gum lass, nae problem for me

by Guest 12.05.14 10:36

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Big shout out to the Irish members of the forum, hope you don't mind this bit of stereotypical dialogue :)

I nearly topped it by replying to Markus 2 on another thread with this bit of casual racism.

"Is it just me that reads Irish investor as money launderer?"

Fortunately I thought better of it and kept it to myself. Imagine how stupid I would have looked!

by ChippyM 12.05.14 10:42

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Big shout out to the Irish members of the forum, hope you don't mind this bit of stereotypical dialogue :)

I nearly topped it by replying to Markus 2 on another thread with this bit of casual racism.

"Is it just me that reads Irish investor as money launderer?"

Fortunately I thought better of it and kept it to myself. Imagine how stupid I would have looked!

I imagined 'irish investor' as the bankrupt one out of boyzone when I read it.

by **Tony Bennett** 12.05.14 10:43

Dutchgirl wrote:
The Smiths left the next day - 4th May

REPLY: No they did not, not all of them. Martin Smith and his wife stayed in Praia da Luz until Wednesday 9 May, and during those first few days - in the middle of a police and media frenzy - neither of them thought for a moment of saying anything to the police about their so-called 'sighting'. He then left it ANOTHER 7 DAYS in Ireland before saying anything - and then, probably only because he saw his friend Robert Murat being pulled in for questioning and made a suspect, he told the police: "I saw a bloke, not very clearly, but it really, definitely, wasn't my friend Robert Murat

....when the McCanns legged it back to UK (after categorically stating "we will not leave Portugal without our Madeleine") the Smiths saw Gerry walking down plane steps and noticed that the man in PT was carrying the child in the same way,

REPLY: The normal method of carrying an asleep or tired child of about 3 or 4 is to carry the child on one's shoulder, just as Gerry McCann was doing when he came off the plane. Martin Smith's claim is IMO patently false, indeed ridiculous

He immediately called PJ

REPLY: Again, no he didn't. I think IIRC that he delayed for 3 or 4 days

who then flew over for a statement.

REPLY: Again, Dutchgirl, that's also incorrect. It might be wise if you re-read all the Smith statements and check out a few things. Dr Goncalo Amaral got him and his son and daughter to fly out in I think late June IIRC. They made statements, which have been analysed on this forum. Mr Smith did NOT fly out a second time after seeing Gerry come off the plane

- Mr Smith stated he is 60-80% sure the man seen carrying the child was Gerry,

REPLY: An evidentially totally worthless statement, of course

he spoke to Gerry on this walk

REPLY: So you say it was Gerry McCann? On the basis of Martin Smith's claims? Yet several reliable witnesses place him in and around his apartment and the Ocean Club at this time (around 10.00am). Again IIRC it was Mrs Smith, not Martin Smith, who CLAIMED to have said a word to the man as he walked by. I personally think that bit, and everything else about that sighting, has been fabricated

- Gerry buried his head down did not respond and darted down towards the beach.

REPLY: According to Mrs Smith IIRC.

COMMENT: It is very clear to me that for whatever reason a key element of Scotland Yard's strategy at the moment is to focus the empty minds of the British journalists covering this story on the nonsensical Smith sighting, hence their deliberate choice of an area of ground for their dig, along what is claimed to have been on his route from Apartment G5A to the beach. How very convenient. Brunt has lapped this up from his hymnsheet. As a Murdoch-trained lapdog would do