The Barn

by ramsey666 29.01.14 14:41

I heard a white sheet with blood on was found in a barn near the apartment.

Does anyone have more information on this?

by tiny 29.01.14 14:43

Never heard that one before

by Curious_Bystander 29.01.14 15:40

IIRC, it was an "Aztec-print" towel, or similar, found at a derelict barn. I cannot remember where, or the source, but I faintly recall an effort at linking the blurry photo of the towel from the news to holiday/evidence snaps - I don't think I ever got to the end of that though.

by DurhamGuy1967 29.01.14 16:05

Curious_Bystander wrote:IIRC, it was an "Aztec-print" towel, or similar, found at a derelict barn. I cannot remember where, or the source, but I faintly recall an effort at linking the blurry photo of the towel from the news to holiday/evidence snaps - I don't think I ever got to the end of that though.

This was first reported in Dec 2007. See McCann Files ( [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] )
It puzzles me as there doesn't seem to be much to the South East of Pria de Luz apart from the sea and the south east area of Pria de Luz itself seems very residential. Interesting that a Portuguese word for barn also means cellar. Is it a miss translation?

by Guest 29.01.14 16:05

Curious_Bystander wrote:IIRC, it was an "Aztec-print" towel, or similar, found at a derelict barn. I cannot remember where, or the source, but I faintly recall an effort at linking the blurry photo of the towel from the news to holiday/evidence snaps - I don't think I ever got to the end of that though.

There was also mention of a derelict outbuilding close to 5A in which suspicious materials were found. The OP sounds like a conflation of this and the barn with the aztec towel.

by DurhamGuy1967 29.01.14 16:12

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
Curious_Bystander wrote:IIRC, it was an "Aztec-print" towel, or similar, found at a derelict barn. I cannot remember where, or the source, but I faintly recall an effort at linking the blurry photo of the towel from the news to holiday/evidence snaps - I don't think I ever got to the end of that though.

There was also mention of a derelict outbuilding close to 5A in which suspicious materials were found. The OP sounds like a conflation of this and the barn with the aztec towel.

Hi, do you have a source for that I'd like to read more?

by Guest 29.01.14 17:24

DurhamGuy1967 wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
Curious_Bystander wrote:IIRC, it was an "Aztec-print" towel, or similar, found at a derelict barn. I cannot remember where, or the source, but I faintly recall an effort at linking the blurry photo of the towel from the news to holiday/evidence snaps - I don't think I ever got to the end of that though.

There was also mention of a derelict outbuilding close to 5A in which suspicious materials were found. The OP sounds like a conflation of this and the barn with the aztec towel.
Hi, do you have a source for that I'd like to read more?

A quick hunt reveals derelict buildings around the church that certainly arouse suspicions, especially in connection with Smithman. However I'm sure there was another building, a shed, that contained sheets etc. I will try to find more later on unless anybody can put me out of my misery in the meantime?

by sallypelt 29.01.14 18:19

Meaning of the word GRANGE:

"a country house with farm buildings attached".

by **tigger** 29.01.14 18:52

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
DurhamGuy1967 wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
Curious_Bystander wrote:IIRC, it was an "Aztec-print" towel, or similar, found at a derelict barn. I cannot remember where, or the source, but I faintly recall an effort at linking the blurry photo of the towel from the news to holiday/evidence snaps - I don't think I ever got to the end of that though.

There was also mention of a derelict outbuilding close to 5A in which suspicious materials were found. The OP sounds like a conflation of this and the barn with the aztec towel.
Hi, do you have a source for that I'd like to read more?

A quick hunt reveals derelict buildings around the church that certainly arouse suspicions, especially in connection with Smithman. However I'm sure there was another building, a shed, that contained sheets etc. I will try to find more later on unless anybody can put me out of my misery in the meantime?

Never heard about sheets, I can do you some clothes, i.e. jeans etc found with a showercurtain in a bag.
What with sheets, shower curtain and an aztec towel in a barn - there's only one solution, three burglars, each hiding the stash
In a different place. winkwink

by Guest 29.01.14 18:55

ramsey666 wrote:I heard a white sheet with blood on was found in a barn near the apartment.

Does anyone have more information on this?

You could do a search yourself. Try McCannfiles as a starter.

by Liz Eagles 29.01.14 19:05

tigger wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
DurhamGuy1967 wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
Curious_Bystander wrote:IIRC, it was an "Aztec-print" towel, or similar, found at a derelict barn. I cannot remember where, or the source, but I faintly recall an effort at linking the blurry photo of the towel from the news to holiday/evidence snaps - I don't think I ever got to the end of that though.

There was also mention of a derelict outbuilding close to 5A in which suspicious materials were found. The OP sounds like a conflation of this and the barn with the aztec towel.
Hi, do you have a source for that I'd like to read more?

A quick hunt reveals derelict buildings around the church that certainly arouse suspicions, especially in connection with Smithman. However I'm sure there was another building, a shed, that contained sheets etc. I will try to find more later on unless anybody can put me out of my misery in the meantime?

Never heard about sheets, I can do you some clothes, i.e. jeans etc found with a showercurtain in a bag.
What with sheets, shower curtain and an aztec towel in a barn - there's only one solution, three burglars, each hiding the stash
In a different place.

Don't forget the discussion on this forum (ages ago) regarding the 'aztec' design on a towel which turned into something similar to a rug that was in the home of the McCanns in UK.

Sheets (the newly introduced thing today), towels, shower curtains, aztec designs, the word 'barn' that could be translated from Portuguese into English that gives the name of Operation Grange.

A darkened room to contemplate these 'mysteries' is obviously needed.

by **sharonl** 29.01.14 20:40

This was reported in the Sunday Express under the heading "Hunt now focuses on a dis-used barn". The article was very quickly whooshed. It alleged that blood spots were found along the edge of a towel, the fibres of the towel matched that of some found in the Renault Scenic.

Just to jog a few memories, also found was a carrier bag containing a loaf of bread and one other item.

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, the police came upon this area by tracing the mobiles of Gerry and Russell.

Also near the barn was an old mineshaft and something else (can't remember what) the PJ felt that the mineshaft was far to dangerous to investigate.

I am sure that at the very least, a picture of the article exists on the net.

by **sharonl** 29.01.14 21:00

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
2 December 2007 | Posted by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Sunday Newspaper Front Pages Sunday December 02, 2007 The Sunday Express leads with a picture of missing toddler Madeleine McCann. It claims DNA clues have been found at a deserted farmhouse.

Sunday Express Newspaper Scan
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Now Hunt Centres on Disused Barn"

The hunt for Madeleine McCann last night centred on a disused barn near Praia da Luz where police found a towel stained with what may turn out to be the little girl's blood.

Fibres found on the towel allegedly match fibres from the hire car rented by Maddie's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Portuguese detectives discussed the breakthrough when they met British police and a Crown Prosecution Service official last week at a police station in Leicester.

Today, for the first time the Sunday Express can shed light on the new avenue police are pursuing in the hope of a breakthrough in the baffling case.

Based on fresh information from mobile phone surveillance, police began a search of an area in the south east of the resort. They came across a towel, with an Aztec design, near a disused barn in a remote area close to Praia da Luz.

Portuguese sources say forensic scientists used a substance called Luminol to look for blood deposits and found three sites on the edges of the towel. They tested the blood deposits to see if there was a match with Madeleine's DNA.

Although the samples were not good quality the scientists were able to do what is called low copy analysis, which showed there was "moderate” support to suggest the blood deposits matched Madeleine's blood.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]The results were not conclusive and are not regarded as being strong enough to be presented as evidence in any court case.

They also found a loaf and a carrier bag, which produced no significant information, but close analysis of the towel revealed fibres which were not made of the towel material. The fibre fragments were microscopically examined against fibres found in the boot of the Renault Scenic hired by the McCanns 25 days after Maddie vanished.

Portuguese police sources say there was "strong support" that the fibres found on the towel matched fibres from the boot of the car.

One possibility being considered by the Portuguese detectives was that the towel had at some point been in the boot of the Renault Scenic, which would explain how fibres had got on it.

by **sharonl** 29.01.14 21:10

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 29.01.14 21:12

sharonl wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

***
?

I see nothing ...

by **sharonl** 29.01.14 21:19

Chateleine

Try this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 29.01.14 21:20

Nothing either ...

by **sharonl** 29.01.14 21:32

Châtelaine wrote:Nothing either ...

How odd, it must the different internet settings. I wonder if anyone else can see it. If so, maybe they would kind enough to re-post it for you.

by Watching The Detectives 29.01.14 21:43

I can see it....a newspaper clipping.......I'm on an iPad.....but not sure how to re-post, I'm afraid.

by stumo 29.01.14 23:51

sharonl wrote:Chateleine

Try this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

does this work??? ^^^^^^

by Guest 30.01.14 0:00

It's very strange; all the links work for me and I'm usually the one who gets a cross in a box and nothing else!

by Guest 30.01.14 8:09

aquila wrote:Don't forget the discussion on this forum (ages ago) regarding the 'aztec' design on a towel which turned into something similar to a rug that was in the home of the McCanns in UK.

Sheets (the newly introduced thing today), towels, shower curtains, aztec designs, the word 'barn' that could be translated from Portuguese into English that gives the name of Operation Grange.

A darkened room to contemplate these 'mysteries' is obviously needed.

Well I did go for a lie down in a darkened room (OK, so I went to bed....) The problem is Aquila that I read so much, so quickly, that I suspect if you scanned a cross section of my brain it would look like a Google map of PdL. But my memory for facts is very good and if I remember something it usually is there somewhere to be found. This place was a shed or outbuilding, close to 5A, but not the one that was broken into, not the derelict house near the church, and definitely not the barn. I suspect it may have been one of the properties associated with Murat's girlfriend's husband, so that is where I will start looking later on.

As for the barn, how were things like this ever just allowed to let slide? And what is it with O'Brien? Suspicion just seems to slide off him like water off a duck's back. Yet to me, things like this (and also the makeshift "film studio" - what's that all about?) are MUCH more fundamental than the angle of some shadows on a photo, which seems to get discussed endlessly. I'm not saying that isn't a valid subject for discussion - it's just a bit like not seeing the wood for the trees.

by Guest 30.01.14 9:05

there was indeed something about sheets or bedding or bed in the back of a shed or small garage, i only found something back in a witness statement of stephen carpenter: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

but i remember there must be more about it, it was said somewhere that the son of the owner/user was sleeping there.

can't find it back as the hole story, it could be somewhere in the files about the searches done.

carpenter talks about a laundry man.

by Guest 30.01.14 10:19

onehand wrote:there was indeed something about sheets or bedding or bed in the back of a shed or small garage, i only found something back in a witness statement of stephen carpenter: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

but i remember there must be more about it, it was said somewhere that the son of the owner/user was sleeping there.

can't find it back as the hole story, it could be somewhere in the files about the searches done.

carpenter talks about a laundry man.

Thanks for that Onehand, massively helpful and probably what I was thinking of. I wonder if the long haired chap referenced in the statement was the recently mentioned on this forum Barrington Norton?

When asked whether his hair is always cut short as it is now, he replies no, adding that he used to have much longer hair, especially longer in the neck, but that it had been cut about a month ago and that on the current day he had just had a small hair cut to tidy up the points.

Somebody with a key took pity on him and let him sleep in the basement rather than on the beach/in his van?

by bobbin 30.01.14 13:31

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
aquila wrote:Don't forget the discussion on this forum (ages ago) regarding the 'aztec' design on a towel which turned into something similar to a rug that was in the home of the McCanns in UK.

Sheets (the newly introduced thing today), towels, shower curtains, aztec designs, the word 'barn' that could be translated from Portuguese into English that gives the name of Operation Grange.

A darkened room to contemplate these 'mysteries' is obviously needed.

Well I did go for a lie down in a darkened room (OK, so I went to bed....) The problem is Aquila that I read so much, so quickly, that I suspect if you scanned a cross section of my brain it would look like a Google map of PdL. But my memory for facts is very good and if I remember something it usually is there somewhere to be found. This place was a shed or outbuilding, close to 5A, but not the one that was broken into, not the derelict house near the church, and definitely not the barn. I suspect it may have been one of the properties associated with Murat's girlfriend's husband, so that is where I will start looking later on.

As for the barn, how were things like this ever just allowed to let slide? And what is it with O'Brien? Suspicion just seems to slide off him like water off a duck's back. Yet to me, things like this (and also the makeshift "film studio" - what's that all about?) are MUCH more fundamental than the angle of some shadows on a photo, which seems to get discussed endlessly. I'm not saying that isn't a valid subject for discussion - it's just a bit like not seeing the wood for the trees.

Clay, I think we need to do both, focus in on the minute detail and step back to look at the bigger picture.
The thing with the 'last photo' is that it is MUCH more PIVOTAL than just whether it is 'real' or 'not'.

The whole 'Abduction' theory depends upon Maddie being alive and in bed on 3rd May.
If this were to be proven then there would be no room to contemplate a death on 3rd, a death earlier in the week, No Maddie in 5A at all, an accident, an intentional dispatching, a removal of body by someone(s) known to the McCs, by unknowns, etc.

The dogs signalling is critical, but, when the 'last photo' (which is the McCs' ONLY defense, along with Jane's sighting of Tannerman) can be shown to be 'tampered with' and therefore 'not to be trusted' it throws the McC claims right out of the ~~open / closed / jemmied~~ window.

With thanks to the latest poster who brought the black and white photo in, which now shows that the rocks have been meddled with in the background, and that the green plant relative to the tree trunk shows manipulation, then we can accept that the 'last photo' in fact is a fraud and we can now concentrate on the BIGGER picture.

For me, eliminating the 'last photo' is as important as for AR to have eliminated 'tannerman'.

Whenever the 'last photo' comes up, it's as if a clarion call to come and defend the McCs. goes out.
A lot of newbies suddenly turn up to give long, convoluted, so called authoritative explanations for why, what, where,when and how, but the hardened posters on here can see it's all bluster, even more so, that it announces a sign of serious fear of exposure in the McC camp.

I'm not saying that one deliberately lays the bait, but the reaction is pretty predictable, a bit like 'yet another sighting' whenever something negative for the McCs is about to be published.

I am quite certain that there is enough evidence for any forensic detective that the 'last photo' is a fraud.

Now, your turning to other areas will be both timely and fruitful I am sure, and it can be done safely, looking at different timelines, different sets of events, different possible scenarios, IMO, since the strictures of Maddie being alive on evening of 3rd May are almost entirely destroyed.

We have to date been constrained, to try to make the 'confuscation and inconsistencies' fit the McCs dictat, because Gonçalo Amaral, at the time or writing, followed what the investigation at that time considered was an 'alive' Maddie on the afternoon of 3rd May.

This, with the advantage of hours and hours of detailed inspection of photos, for photoshopping signs, and this latest (last / pool picture) exposure, frees our minds up.

The bigger picture will certainly be worthy of focussing on. Let's do just that high5