Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

by nobodythereeither 16.10.13 12:46

SixMillionQuid wrote:Operation Grange do not consider the MCanns as suspects. As far as they are concerned they have been eliminated from enquiries. If they were of interest we would not have had the Crimewatch appeal which would have been proved to have been a waste of time of money - as the McCanns would be suspects wouldn't they?

So if I can turn the question around. If you consider Mr Redwood is playing blinder and 300 people called Crimewatch on Monday to say who it was, what are you expecting Mr Redwood and his team to do now?

They are hardly going to come out publicly and say the McCanns are suspects at this stage of the game, even if they are, are they?!

by Estelle 16.10.13 12:53

I have been following this case since May, 2007 and it was been widely believed in the early days that Jane Tanner had seen a man on a previous night taking his child back from the creche so she used this idea to give the abduction idea credence and to blame Robert Murat.

Many posters used to think that it was Gerry who was seen by Martin Smith and his family carrying a child as he wanted to give the abduction idea credence too initially but Jane Tanner later came up with her idea and they went along with that.

The idea was to be a premeditated faked abduction by Gerry who was hoping to be seen but not recognised. No one would carry a dead child around PDL so most posters used to predict that Gerry carried either Jane Tanner's daughter or his sedated daughter, Amelie. He then hurried back to the apartment with her and put her in bed hence the delay in phoning the GNR.

I have always believed in the earlier death theory due to the phone records which were studied in depth by a previous poster here so IMO Maddie was already dead and in a freezer somewhere perhaps in empty Apartment J? and later moved to the Renault Scenic - hence the cadaver was found there. Amaral stated that the body had been frozen.

There is suspicion that a substitute Maddie lookalike (hence the discrepancy in photos) also called Madalene (but spelled differently) was signed into the creche all week so Maddie never went there. It is predicted that Gerry forged her father's signature so it was all planned in advance. This has all been reported to the PJ since and now SY are looking into the phone records.

by endgame 16.10.13 12:59

russiandoll wrote:I do not think that the man was carrying Maddie.

That's interesting rd because it means that either it was Gerry carrying someone else or it was a completely unrelated innocent person who throws no light on the case whatsoever doesn't it? Or is there another explanation which I have missed?

by bristow 16.10.13 13:05

endgame wrote:
russiandoll wrote:I do not think that the man was carrying Maddie.
That's interesting rd because it means that either it was Gerry carrying someone else or it was a completely unrelated innocent person who throws no light on the case whatsoever doesn't it? Or is there another explanation which I have missed?

See Estelle's post above, not sure if RD thinks exactly the same but it's interesting reading.

by nobodythereeither 16.10.13 13:06

Estelle wrote:I have been following this case since May, 2007 and it was been widely believed in the early days that Jane Tanner had seen a man on a previous night taking his child back from the creche so she used this idea to give the abduction idea credence and to blame Robert Murat.

Many posters used to think that it was Gerry who was seen by Martin Smith and his family carrying a child as he wanted to give the abduction idea credence too initially but Jane Tanner later came up with her idea and they went along with that.

The idea was to be a premeditated faked abduction by Gerry who was hoping to be seen but not recognised. No one would carry a dead child around PDL so most posters used to predict that Gerry carried either Jane Tanner's daughter or his sedated daughter, Amelie. He then hurried back to the apartment with her and put her in bed hence the delay in phoning the GNR.

I have always believed in the earlier death theory due to the phone records which were studied in depth by a previous poster here so IMO Maddie was already dead and in a freezer somewhere perhaps in empty Apartment J? and later moved to the Renault Scenic - hence the cadaver was found there. Amaral stated that the body had been frozen.

There is suspicion that a substitute Maddie lookalike (hence the discrepancy in photos) also called Madalene (but spelled differently) was signed into the creche all week so Maddie never went there. It is predicted that Gerry forged her father's signature so it was all planned in advance. This has all been reported to the PJ since and now SY are looking into the phone records.

Estelle, I too have been following the case since 2007, and I don't remember that theory, but it is very very interesting and quite credible, imo.

by mouse 16.10.13 13:08

MoonGoddess wrote:
Estelle wrote:Meanwhile remember this article Friends of McCanns 'scared to tell truth' from Tuesday, 12 November 2007 published in the Evening Standard and later on thisislondon.co.uk. Notice that the title and the article were updated, contents changed [deleted], the updated article can still be found here.

“It’s not that he is scared of the McCanns, but the economic and political lobby surrounding the couple is truly frightening to anybody.”

A friend of Kate and Gerry McCann wants to "reveal the whole truth" about the case but is frightened of the couple's political allies, a lawyer claimed yesterday.

One of the so-called Tapas Nine wants to help Portuguese police with the six-month investigation but "feels obliged to keep silent", according to the unnamed legal source.

The lawyer attacked the intervention of "certain politicians" in the case and said they had prejudiced the hunt to discover what really happened to Madeleine McCann. Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Foreign Secretary David Miliband both spoke to the couple directly before the McCanns were made official suspects in the case.

Direct contact stopped when they were made arguidos in September but the Premier has been briefed on the case since then and raised it with his Portuguese counterpart last month.

The unnamed lawyer, who claimed to represent one of the Tapas Nine, told the respected Spanish newspaper El Mundo: "My client feels obliged to keep silent about what he can do to help the investigation, and not because of the Portuguese secrecy laws.

"It's not that he is scared of the McCanns, but the economic and political lobby surrounding the couple is truly frightening to anybody.

"What my client wants is to reveal the whole truth, but he does not mean to accuse or blame anyone, as that is the job of the police.

"The only thing he wants is to help the police discover the truth about what happened before, during and after that dinner on May 3."

McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell branded the report "utter rubbish" and insisted there was no rift between the couple and any of their friends.

He said the seven friends who dined with the McCanns that night only had one lawyer between them, and said he had not made any of the comments.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/06/pj-brought-back-to-portugal-3-of.html
You have great powers of recall!! without naming.... is it know who this is?

Exactly - and Clarrie saying it is 'utter rubbish', (I remember he always used to use the ludicrous word) , as Wendy Murphy's proclamations were beyond a response, and now Goncalo's as nonsense - just leads one to believe that that was probably true at the time. I wonder who the lawyer was - he must've been instructed by someone.

As I said before, this crimewatch programme with all the phonelines set up ready to go, but the police, seemingly to the public - appearing 100% behind Team Mccan - if you really wanted to put your head above the proverbial and say something that might conflict with the parents position - well you wouldn't would you. How could you possibly.....I know all those who say this is just a way to flush out the Mccanns, but from a viewer's pov, as somebody who really knew something significant would also be, this would look like a massive road block.

by SixMillionQuid 16.10.13 13:08

nobodythereeither wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:Operation Grange do not consider the MCanns as suspects. As far as they are concerned they have been eliminated from enquiries. If they were of interest we would not have had the Crimewatch appeal which would have been proved to have been a waste of time of money - as the McCanns would be suspects wouldn't they?

So if I can turn the question around. If you consider Mr Redwood is playing blinder and 300 people called Crimewatch on Monday to say who it was, what are you expecting Mr Redwood and his team to do now?
They are hardly going to come out publicly and say the McCanns are suspects at this stage of the game, even if they are, are they?!

When are they going to do it?

The problem I have is that if you've gone on record as saying "they are not suspects" you're making a definative statement. You've trawelled through the files compiled by the PJ, Leicester Police, Scotland Yard etc and you've ruled them out -the investigation has moved on to another suspect. That's how I understand Redwood's statement. He could have said "we have a number of possible suspects" and left it at that - the McCanns and their lawyers would not be able to do a thing about it.

If we assume Redwood is pulling a fast one and waiting for the right moment, when ever that is, you have to consider the McCann's lawyers would simply ask
- "why are you arresting my clients now when you've already ruled them out?".
- "Ermm because we ran out of suspects!?".

The only way you'll get handcuffs on them is if at least two members of the T9 confess or more forensic evidence is found. Until then all they need to do is keep quite and let British media continue with its hatchet job. Just my opinion

by ShuBob 16.10.13 13:15

MoonGoddess wrote:
ShuBob wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCewUVxDi9Y

The BBC I-player is no longer available so here's a YouTube link.
I was wondering this yesterday when I saw a message on Twitter from the BBC that "for legal reasons" the Crimewatch special was only available on iPlayer for 24 hours. Has that always been the case with Crimewatch i.e. it's only available for 24 hours after it airs?
not sure if it is a regular occurrence, but maybe done so as not to jeopardise any future charges/convictions

But the same would apply to other cases featured, no?

by rustyjames 16.10.13 13:22

Estelle wrote:These witnesses also stated that Gerry McCann did not even go to check on the children, when he went away of the restaurant, and that he only stayed at the apartment of Praia da Luz entrance.

Hi all,

Newbie here but lurked on the forums since the beginning and used to post on some of them occasionally early on.

Been following this thread with interest and this comment together with another referring to the sticker book timelines made me wonder about the following.

The second entry in the first timeline (here) is quoted as "in the room". It's probably the handwriting and has been discussed before but I see it as the following, however either way the "did he check" seemed a little odd.

"Jerry 9:10 - 9:15 in tv room + all well
? did he check"

by Mirage 16.10.13 13:31

SixMillionQuid wrote:
nobodythereeither wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:Operation Grange do not consider the MCanns as suspects. As far as they are concerned they have been eliminated from enquiries. If they were of interest we would not have had the Crimewatch appeal which would have been proved to have been a waste of time of money - as the McCanns would be suspects wouldn't they?

So if I can turn the question around. If you consider Mr Redwood is playing blinder and 300 people called Crimewatch on Monday to say who it was, what are you expecting Mr Redwood and his team to do now?
They are hardly going to come out publicly and say the McCanns are suspects at this stage of the game, even if they are, are they?!
When are they going to do it?

The problem I have is that if you've gone on record as saying "they are not suspects" you're making a definative statement. You've trawelled through the files compiled by the PJ, Leicester Police, Scotland Yard etc and you've ruled them out -the investigation has moved on to another suspect. That's how I understand Redwood's statement. He could have said "we have a number of possible suspects" and left it at that - the McCanns and their lawyers would not be able to do a thing about it.

If we assume Redwood is pulling a fast one and waiting for the right moment, when ever that is, you have to consider the McCann's lawyers would simply ask
- "why are you arresting my clients now when you've already ruled them out?".
- "Ermm because we ran out of suspects!?".

The only way you'll get handcuffs on them is if at least two members of the T9 confess or more forensic evidence is found. Until then all they need to do is keep quite and let British media continue with its hatchet job. Just my opinion

The health of the pact is key. The T9 pact of silence was (ironically) mentioned by Payne way back. But where are the Paynes in the CW recon? Taking the silence pact too literally?
Things have changed and now it's a question of damage limitation. The T7 have choices to make as the pressure grows. They have families growing up under the taint of this case.
Meanwhile, the foot is being eased off the media brake pedal. Comments in the DM I have never seen the like of are appearing. Goncalo has been brought in from the cold. The Smith sighting that was left on the cutting room floor has been picked up and dusted down. The Tanner sighting has been relegated to the cutting room floor to be picked up and dusted down at a later date, one hopes.
I think the pressure cooker is humming away nicely on the back burner for the moment.
From where I'm standing, everyone is deserting the sinking ship. All of a sudden the stigma of criticising TM has done a volte face, and all in plain sight - just like the past masters.

by endgame 16.10.13 13:36

bristow wrote:
endgame wrote:
russiandoll wrote:I do not think that the man was carrying Maddie.
That's interesting rd because it means that either it was Gerry carrying someone else or it was a completely unrelated innocent person who throws no light on the case whatsoever doesn't it? Or is there another explanation which I have missed?
See Estelle's post above, not sure if RD thinks exactly the same but it's interesting reading.

Thanks Bristow. Yes it is interesting. It at least answers the question if it was Gerry and M was dead what was he doing carting her around PdL in full public view which seems to me implausible whereas on the other hand GA thinks the sighting is significant. I'm not sure I buy Estelle's version but it is an explanation.

by WOFTAM 16.10.13 13:39

Newby here.

I have a question on the timing of the events

This statement

Query over time Madeleine was reported missing

Richard Bilton, on the BBC Panorama documentary says: "I have spoken to someone who was staying very close to flat 5A on the night of May 3rd. She says the first that she was aware of a missing child was 10.30 and she's sure of that because she says the BBC 10 o'clock news had just finished. She says that she heard Kate McCann sobbing, repeating over and over again: "We've let her down." She also says that she heard the first Portuguese policeman arrive and he said: "She must have walked out because there's no sign of a break in."

Note: Given the proximity to the event, this is almost certainly Mrs Pamela Fenn who lives in the apartment directly above the McCanns.

If the above is true would that not give Gerry enough time to dump the body near the beach and return?

by windchime 16.10.13 13:41

rustyjames wrote:
Estelle wrote:These witnesses also stated that Gerry McCann did not even go to check on the children, when he went away of the restaurant, and that he only stayed at the apartment of Praia da Luz entrance.
Hi all,

Newbie here but lurked on the forums since the beginning and used to post on some of them occasionally early on.

Been following this thread with interest and this comment together with another referring to the sticker book timelines made me wonder about the following.

The second entry in the first timeline (here) is quoted as "in the room". It's probably the handwriting and has been discussed before but I see it as the following, however either way the "did he check" seemed a little odd.

"Jerry 9:10 - 9:15 in tv room + all well
? did he check"

Welcome rustyjames!!

Do they mean MO I wonder?

by Mélusine 16.10.13 13:42

rustyjames wrote:
Estelle wrote:These witnesses also stated that Gerry McCann did not even go to check on the children, when he went away of the restaurant, and that he only stayed at the apartment of Praia da Luz entrance.
Hi all,

Newbie here but lurked on the forums since the beginning and used to post on some of them occasionally early on.

Been following this thread with interest and this comment together with another referring to the sticker book timelines made me wonder about the following.

The second entry in the first timeline (here) is quoted as "in the room". It's probably the handwriting and has been discussed before but I see it as the following, however either way the "did he check" seemed a little odd.

"Jerry 9:10 - 9:15 in tv room + all well
? did he check"

"? did he check" is strange, it's like somebody put it down to be discussed later or something.

What seems even stranger - at least to me it seemed strange - is spelling of Gerry's name.

by SixMillionQuid 16.10.13 13:44

Mirage wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:
nobodythereeither wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:Operation Grange do not consider the MCanns as suspects. As far as they are concerned they have been eliminated from enquiries. If they were of interest we would not have had the Crimewatch appeal which would have been proved to have been a waste of time of money - as the McCanns would be suspects wouldn't they?

So if I can turn the question around. If you consider Mr Redwood is playing blinder and 300 people called Crimewatch on Monday to say who it was, what are you expecting Mr Redwood and his team to do now?
They are hardly going to come out publicly and say the McCanns are suspects at this stage of the game, even if they are, are they?!
When are they going to do it?

The problem I have is that if you've gone on record as saying "they are not suspects" you're making a definative statement. You've trawelled through the files compiled by the PJ, Leicester Police, Scotland Yard etc and you've ruled them out -the investigation has moved on to another suspect. That's how I understand Redwood's statement. He could have said "we have a number of possible suspects" and left it at that - the McCanns and their lawyers would not be able to do a thing about it.

If we assume Redwood is pulling a fast one and waiting for the right moment, when ever that is, you have to consider the McCann's lawyers would simply ask
- "why are you arresting my clients now when you've already ruled them out?".
- "Ermm because we ran out of suspects!?".

The only way you'll get handcuffs on them is if at least two members of the T9 confess or more forensic evidence is found. Until then all they need to do is keep quite and let British media continue with its hatchet job. Just my opinion
The health of the pact is key. The T9 pact of silence was (ironically) mentioned by Payne way back. But where are the Paynes in the CW recon? Taking the silence pact too literally?
Things have changed and now it's a question of damage limitation. The T7 have choices to make as the pressure grows. They have families growing up under the taint of this case.
Meanwhile, the foot is being eased off the media brake pedal. Comments in the DM I have never seen the like of are appearing. Goncalo has been brought in from the cold. The Smith sighting that was left on the cutting room floor has been picked up and dusted down. The Tanner sighting has been relegated to the cutting room floor to be picked up and dusted down at a later date, one hopes.
I think the pressure cooker is humming away nicely on the back burner for the moment.
From where I'm standing, everyone is deserting the sinking ship. All of a sudden the stigma of criticising TM has done a volte face, and all in plain sight - just like the past masters.

I remember the Gerry McCann's "f*** off" video that appeared on Youtube. Only David Payne could have released that video because he filmed it on his mobile phone and now he's vanished without a trace.

by Guest 16.10.13 13:48

The McCanns claim to have released the video SixMillionQuid

Welcome to the forum.

by SixMillionQuid 16.10.13 13:51

candyfloss wrote:The McCanns claim to have released the video SixMillionQuid

Welcome to the forum.

They did!? When was that?

Did Kate take credit for it in her book?

by Guest 16.10.13 14:00

SixMillionQuid wrote:
candyfloss wrote:The McCanns claim to have released the video SixMillionQuid

Welcome to the forum.
They did!? When was that?

Did Kate take credit for it in her book?

From BBC article......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6698737.stm

New video of Madeleine released

CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION**** - Page 35 _42979897_madeleine_video203

Madeleine was said to be looking forward to the holiday
CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION**** - Page 35 Inline_dashed_line

The parents of Madeleine McCann have released the last video clips taken of their daughter before her disappearance in Portugal nearly four weeks ago.
Dressed in pink and holding a rucksack, the four-year-old can be seen walking onto a flight at East Midlands Airport.

The mobile phone footage also shows her on an airport bus in the Algarve.

by Mirage 16.10.13 14:05

SixMillionQuid:
I remember the Gerry McCann's "f*** off" video that appeared on Youtube. Only David Payne could have released that video because he filmed it on his mobile phone and now he's vanished without a trace.

DP must have taken Gerry at his word then and f****d right off. big grin

by Angelique 16.10.13 14:07

Ayniia wrote:
MoonGoddess wrote:
Angelique wrote:MoonGoddess

"It would be good to know where that Villa was"

Maybe it was this one referred to in this link.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/210032/Madeleine-McCann-Did-the-camera-hold-vital-clue

I remember seeing a picture of GA standing in front of a particular Villa but I can't now find the picture. It could be the one because it is described as being in the same vicinity.
Thank You Angelique :) that is novery interesting too! do you/anyone know if that narrative was taken from Mr Amaral's 'Truth of the Lie' documentary? if so I will watch it.... I think the fact that Mr Amaral is pointing in that direction is very telling...
The Vila Mr Amaral is in the documentary is the one rented by the Mccanns.

MoonGoddess

This is the site where I found the link to the Villa. I has some pictures at the bottom of the disucssion of the "derelict Villa".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1390.0

by Guest 16.10.13 14:08

ITV News ‏@itvnews 20m
Police investigating Madeleine McCann's disappearance receive 150 calls after appeal airs on Dutch TV http://itv.co/1bWfwG2

by jeanmonroe 16.10.13 14:10

Are the McS the new JS at the BBC?
By virtue of their 'celebrity'?
Are we going to get?
"we all heard the rumours and gossip but we did nothing, and said nothing, because of their 'celebrity' status within the BBC,"
"How could a couple that raise money for charity possibly be involved in any wrong doing?"
"When we dared to raise any questions about the McS, the bosses said, 'don't you dare question their versions of events, or you'll find yourself right back where you started'
Will we have a brave Mc 'tribute' show around about Christmas time, to boost their ailing private 'fund'?
The BBC have misrepresented what is in the official PJ files with a doting version of their own on CW, imo.
WHY?
Everybody that has read the files knows differently.
WHY hasn't anybody, who has doubts, about Madeleine's 'disappearance' ever been invited by the BBC, to discuss the case?

During a recent 'spat' with Paul Dacre, 12th October 2013 this is how the BBC 'reacted'

Mr Dacre also said the BBC's "one-sided tone" in its reporting had allowed Labour to "misrepresent" the piece.
The BBC said it rejected "any suggestion that our reporting has been biased".
Paul Dacre added "But the BBC's blood lust was certainly up. Impartiality flew out of the window. Ancient feuds were settled," he wrote.
The BBC said in a statement it had "followed the story as it unfolded and ensured both sides had the chance to express their views".
"As a public broadcaster, we have a responsibility to report the news without fear or favour, providing balanced information and independent analysis, allowing our audiences to make up their own minds."

So WHY haven't the BBC ever given the 'other side' a chance to 'express' their views, regarding the 'disappearance' of Madeleine McCann, allowing their audience to make up their own minds?

Everything i have seen reported on the BBC has, imo, been 'one sided tone, biased, partial and un-balanced and only ONE side has been allowed to express their view'

As i said, are the Mcs the new JS at the BBC?

by Guest 16.10.13 14:10

Is this right, Ben Needham's dad been on ITV news, anyone see it??

David Steel ‏@DaSteelMan 4m
So Ben #Needham's dad is on @ITVnews asking why he isn't getting the same assistance as #McCann. Well @David_Cameron, why?

by SixMillionQuid 16.10.13 14:14

candyfloss wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:
candyfloss wrote:The McCanns claim to have released the video SixMillionQuid

Welcome to the forum.
They did!? When was that?

Did Kate take credit for it in her book?
From BBC article......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6698737.stm

New video of Madeleine released

Madeleine was said to be looking forward to the holiday

The parents of Madeleine McCann have released the last video clips taken of their daughter before her disappearance in Portugal nearly four weeks ago.
Dressed in pink and holding a rucksack, the four-year-old can be seen walking onto a flight at East Midlands Airport.

The mobile phone footage also shows her on an airport bus in the Algarve.

Thanks, I remember the Youtube video appearing around this time.

by Guest 16.10.13 14:15

Jeanmonroe I have merged your post with this thread. I did mention earlier too many threads are being started, more or less on the same subject which is to do with Crimewatch.