Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

by MoonGoddess 16.10.13 11:51

russiandoll wrote:Was I seeing things, or in the tapas meal recon. were the metal shutters on patio door DOWN ?

Meant to post this after show....lots going on so got distracted. will post the yotube clip

I think? I also noticed the abductor leaving through the door? going to watch it again on 'catchup' later.

by russiandoll 16.10.13 11:54

I do not think that the man was carrying Maddie.

by russiandoll 16.10.13 11:55

MoonGoddess wrote:
russiandoll wrote:Was I seeing things, or in the tapas meal recon. were the metal shutters on patio door DOWN ?

Meant to post this after show....lots going on so got distracted. will post the yotube clip
I think? I also noticed the abductor leaving through the door? going to watch it again on 'catchup' later.

clearly upon exit, we see shutters open.

but during the meal when camera panned I am sure they were closed.

by Angelique 16.10.13 11:56

MoonGoddess

"It would be good to know where that Villa was"

Maybe it was this one referred to in this link.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/210032/Madeleine-McCann-Did-the-camera-hold-vital-clue

I remember seeing a picture of GA standing in front of a particular Villa but I can't now find the picture. It could be the one because it is described as being in the same vicinity.

by Guest 16.10.13 11:59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCewUVxDi9Y

The BBC I-player is no longer available so here's a YouTube link.

by Guest 16.10.13 11:59

russiandoll wrote:Cherry Blossom...CW did go out after the McCann people gave evidence at the libel trial.. do you mean in case G and K are allowed to speak?

Yes if they are allowed to speak, but with the trial delay's and not been on again while November it knocked their schedule to get the British public on their side. Wonder if there will be a re run of Crimewatch or up date, around that time, if they will be allowed to speak?

by ShuBob 16.10.13 12:02

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCewUVxDi9Y

The BBC I-player is no longer available so here's a YouTube link.

I was wondering this yesterday when I saw a message on Twitter from the BBC that "for legal reasons" the Crimewatch special was only available on iPlayer for 24 hours. Has that always been the case with Crimewatch i.e. it's only available for 24 hours after it airs?

by MoonGoddess 16.10.13 12:07

Angelique wrote:MoonGoddess

"It would be good to know where that Villa was"

Maybe it was this one referred to in this link.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/210032/Madeleine-McCann-Did-the-camera-hold-vital-clue

I remember seeing a picture of GA standing in front of a particular Villa but I can't now find the picture. It could be the one because it is described as being in the same vicinity.

Thank You Angelique :) that is very interesting too! do you/anyone know if that narrative was taken from Mr Amaral's 'Truth of the Lie' documentary? if so I will watch it.... I think the fact that Mr Amaral is pointing in that direction is very telling...

by MoonGoddess 16.10.13 12:09

ShuBob wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCewUVxDi9Y

The BBC I-player is no longer available so here's a YouTube link.
I was wondering this yesterday when I saw a message on Twitter from the BBC that "for legal reasons" the Crimewatch special was only available on iPlayer for 24 hours. Has that always been the case with Crimewatch i.e. it's only available for 24 hours after it airs?

not sure if it is a regular occurrence, but maybe done so as not to jeopardise any future charges/convictions

by Estelle 16.10.13 12:10

This article might explain a few things such as why the names of the Paynes and Fiona's mother were not included in the Crimewatch documentary!

PJ Brought Back to Portugal 3 of the McCanns Friends in Secrecy

In a secret visit to Portugal, three persons who had dinner at the Tapas Bar shattered the McCanns and Jane Tanner versions

Fiona Payne, her mother Dianne Webster, and the husband David Payne, are the main trumps of the Public Ministry that will lead the parents of Madeleine McCann, the missing girl, on the 3rd of May of 2007, from an apartment in Praia da Luz, Algarve, to be accused of the crimes of exposition and abandonment since they left the girl alone in that critical night. It is a crime that is punishable up to ten years of prison and allows the respective preventive arrests, like 24horas announced last week.

These three witnesses returned to Portugal, on the 11th of July of 2007, in a travel paid by the Portuguese State, and were accommodated in a hotel unity of Portimão. They were still questioned by Gonçalo Amaral’s team, the superior coordinator who was removed from the case, and they contradicted the McCann’s version regarding to what went on in the night of the disappearance.

[url=http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/06/pj-brought-back-to-portugal-3-of.html]

by nobodythereeither 16.10.13 12:11

tigger wrote:Well, the reconstruction was made 6 months ago.

When we saw them in May looking for the first time in six years truly distressed - was that because they'd been told that Gerry's. solid gold alibi had been ditched ?

Profuse apologies, I'm just catching up. What was Gerry's alibi for the time Martin Smith saw "him"?

Was it solely based on the Tapas 7's statements, or were there independent witnesses placing Gerry elsewhere (presumably at the tapas bar) at that time?

Because if the latter, then there's clearly a problem with Martin Smith's identification.

by sofieellis 16.10.13 12:16

Hi, another newbie here - please be gentle

I've read about half of this thread so far, and I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, so apologies if I'm in the wrong place.

Scotland Yard have said they have stripped the investigation right back to the start and begun all over again from the beginning, not assuming anything. Does that mean then, that they have re-interviewed the McCanns and the rest of the Tapas 9? It would seem to be the logical place to start a new investigion, but I haven't seen anything about this anywhere. Obviously it doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but I would have expected the press to pick up on it if they had all been dragged off to police stations to give interviews.

by Estelle 16.10.13 12:18

Jane Tanner, her companion, Russell O'Brien, Matthew Oldfield and his wife, Rachel – gave contradictory statements”. And the judicial person in charge exemplifies: "”Jane Tanner always said that she went out from the restaurant to see her oldest daughter. Fiona, David and Dianne guaranteed to the PJ that she never left the restaurant before the alarm was given by Kate. This information was corroborated by several workers of the Tapas Bar restaurant”. These witnesses also stated that Gerry McCann did not even go to check on the children, when he went away of the restaurant, and that he only stayed at the apartment of Praia da Luz entrance.

The authorities were suspicious of Dianne Webster's attitude and she told them that she did not believe in the version of the McCanns. She also pointed out to the PJ that each couple was responsible for their own children and that no one entered in the apartment of the friends[in each other’s apartments].

by nobodythereeither 16.10.13 12:19

Pennypennypenny wrote:I don't think the e fits look anything like Gerry.

But in any case I thought the main reason that Martin Smith thought the man was Gerry was his way of walking and carrying the child, which he picked up on when seeing Gerry on the news coming down the steps of the plane in England carrying one of the twins.

by Woburn_exile 16.10.13 12:22

russiandoll wrote:
Mélusine wrote:Russiandoll,

why do I think this is a whitewash?

Because I believe that if it was genuine, the police would not act like this - Crimewatch programme, weird e-fits, a witness suddenly falls from the sky after 6 years, parents and Tapas are not suspects etc...

There was a case of missing 8 years old girl 3 years ago in the country where I come from... the way the police was acting, the information they gave, the appeals on TV ... everything was totally different to this.

I can't express my reasons better than it has already been done in this - already mentioned - article Read it and Weep by Dr. M. Roberts.

Thank you for your reply and I understand it to a point, but what could be the reason for such an elaborate cover up ? This is what baffles me,

eta this is not a typical missing child case so maybe extraordinary measures are needed to solve it ?

Doll wouldn't you say that the time has come for the country to apply the "Three Questions Strategy"? As we discussed in our recent PM session.
laughat

by ChippyM 16.10.13 12:23

N

sofieellis wrote:Hi, another newbie here - please be gentle

I've read about half of this thread so far, and I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, so apologies if I'm in the wrong place.

Scotland Yard have said they have stripped the investigation right back to the start and begun all over again from the beginning, not assuming anything. Does that mean then, that they have re-interviewed the McCanns and the rest of the Tapas 9? It would seem to be the logical place to start a new investigion, but I haven't seen anything about this anywhere. Obviously it doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but I would have expected the press to pick up on it if they had all been dragged off to police stations to give interviews.

hello!

I think because it's a review, they are going off statements as they were made at the time, re-opening the case may lead to new interviews taking place. I could be wrong though.

by russiandoll 16.10.13 12:23

I believe Redwood's not ACCEPTING ANYTHING included not accepting abduction and following UK procedures. Coming very soon to the conclusion that JT man did not exist.

and why Tanner was binned and crechedad came as if out of a magician's hat

and without JT man, there is no abductor.

there is no foundation on which the house of cards can stand

it will come tumbling down sooner or later

by Estelle 16.10.13 12:24

Meanwhile remember this article Friends of McCanns 'scared to tell truth' from Tuesday, 12 November 2007 published in the Evening Standard and later on thisislondon.co.uk. Notice that the title and the article were updated, contents changed [deleted], the updated article can still be found here.

“It’s not that he is scared of the McCanns, but the economic and political lobby surrounding the couple is truly frightening to anybody.”

A friend of Kate and Gerry McCann wants to "reveal the whole truth" about the case but is frightened of the couple's political allies, a lawyer claimed yesterday.

One of the so-called Tapas Nine wants to help Portuguese police with the six-month investigation but "feels obliged to keep silent", according to the unnamed legal source.

The lawyer attacked the intervention of "certain politicians" in the case and said they had prejudiced the hunt to discover what really happened to Madeleine McCann. Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Foreign Secretary David Miliband both spoke to the couple directly before the McCanns were made official suspects in the case.

Direct contact stopped when they were made arguidos in September but the Premier has been briefed on the case since then and raised it with his Portuguese counterpart last month.

The unnamed lawyer, who claimed to represent one of the Tapas Nine, told the respected Spanish newspaper El Mundo: "My client feels obliged to keep silent about what he can do to help the investigation, and not because of the Portuguese secrecy laws.

"It's not that he is scared of the McCanns, but the economic and political lobby surrounding the couple is truly frightening to anybody.

"What my client wants is to reveal the whole truth, but he does not mean to accuse or blame anyone, as that is the job of the police.

"The only thing he wants is to help the police discover the truth about what happened before, during and after that dinner on May 3."

McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell branded the report "utter rubbish" and insisted there was no rift between the couple and any of their friends.

He said the seven friends who dined with the McCanns that night only had one lawyer between them, and said he had not made any of the comments.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/06/pj-brought-back-to-portugal-3-of.html

by ChippyM 16.10.13 12:26

B

russiandoll wrote:I believe Redwood's not ACCEPTING ANYTHING included not accepting abduction and following UK procedures. Coming very soon to the conclusion that JT man did not exist.

and why Tanner was binned and crechedad came as if out of a magician's hat

and without JT man, there is no abductor.

there is no foundation on which the house of cards can stand

it will come tumbling down sooner or later

I'm not disagreeing with your view but how would SY get away with faking the picture of bundleman on national TV, would that not be entrapment or something?

by russiandoll 16.10.13 12:28

chippym not sure about entrapment in this case.......maybe Jane did see a man carrying a child, but it was not the man shown to us by SY imo.

by MoonGoddess 16.10.13 12:29

Estelle wrote:Meanwhile remember this article Friends of McCanns 'scared to tell truth' from Tuesday, 12 November 2007 published in the Evening Standard and later on thisislondon.co.uk. Notice that the title and the article were updated, contents changed [deleted], the updated article can still be found here.

“It’s not that he is scared of the McCanns, but the economic and political lobby surrounding the couple is truly frightening to anybody.”

A friend of Kate and Gerry McCann wants to "reveal the whole truth" about the case but is frightened of the couple's political allies, a lawyer claimed yesterday.

One of the so-called Tapas Nine wants to help Portuguese police with the six-month investigation but "feels obliged to keep silent", according to the unnamed legal source.

The lawyer attacked the intervention of "certain politicians" in the case and said they had prejudiced the hunt to discover what really happened to Madeleine McCann. Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Foreign Secretary David Miliband both spoke to the couple directly before the McCanns were made official suspects in the case.

Direct contact stopped when they were made arguidos in September but the Premier has been briefed on the case since then and raised it with his Portuguese counterpart last month.

The unnamed lawyer, who claimed to represent one of the Tapas Nine, told the respected Spanish newspaper El Mundo: "My client feels obliged to keep silent about what he can do to help the investigation, and not because of the Portuguese secrecy laws.

"It's not that he is scared of the McCanns, but the economic and political lobby surrounding the couple is truly frightening to anybody.

"What my client wants is to reveal the whole truth, but he does not mean to accuse or blame anyone, as that is the job of the police.

"The only thing he wants is to help the police discover the truth about what happened before, during and after that dinner on May 3."

McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell branded the report "utter rubbish" and insisted there was no rift between the couple and any of their friends.

He said the seven friends who dined with the McCanns that night only had one lawyer between them, and said he had not made any of the comments.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/06/pj-brought-back-to-portugal-3-of.html

You have great powers of recall!! without naming.... is it know who this is?

by sweetex 16.10.13 12:32

nobodythereeither wrote:
tigger wrote:Well, the reconstruction was made 6 months ago.

When we saw them in May looking for the first time in six years truly distressed - was that because they'd been told that Gerry's. solid gold alibi had been ditched ?
Profuse apologies, I'm just catching up. What was Gerry's alibi for the time Martin Smith saw "him"?

Was it solely based on the Tapas 7's statements, or were there independent witnesses placing Gerry elsewhere (presumably at the tapas bar) at that time?

Because if the latter, then there's clearly a problem with Martin Smith's identification.

I could be wrong, but I don't think it ever got to the point where Gerry needed an alibi or had to defend himself. As far as I know he just said something like "its ludicrous, as I was at the Tapas"

This sighting was only starting to be investigated when Amaral was taken off the case.

by sofieellis 16.10.13 12:33

ChippyM wrote:N
sofieellis wrote:Hi, another newbie here - please be gentle

I've read about half of this thread so far, and I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, so apologies if I'm in the wrong place.

Scotland Yard have said they have stripped the investigation right back to the start and begun all over again from the beginning, not assuming anything. Does that mean then, that they have re-interviewed the McCanns and the rest of the Tapas 9? It would seem to be the logical place to start a new investigion, but I haven't seen anything about this anywhere. Obviously it doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but I would have expected the press to pick up on it if they had all been dragged off to police stations to give interviews.
hello!

I think because it's a review, they are going off statements as they were made at the time, re-opening the case may lead to new interviews taking place. I could be wrong though.

Thanks. So, it's possibly something that could happen further down the line then.

by nobodythereeither 16.10.13 12:34

riskybuisness wrote:
I am open minded in this case as I have no idea what actually took place, however, I do think that Gerry and Kate should be charged with other offences while the investigation continues- the 1st of which should be the neglect or abandonment of their children- they have no alibi and not enough smoke and mirrors to get out of that one.

I believe the reason they were not charged with neglect in Portugal was because (and I can't now remember why) that would preclude their subsequently being charged with a more serious crime or crimes in that country.

by Ayniia 16.10.13 12:35

MoonGoddess wrote:
Angelique wrote:MoonGoddess

"It would be good to know where that Villa was"

Maybe it was this one referred to in this link.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/210032/Madeleine-McCann-Did-the-camera-hold-vital-clue

I remember seeing a picture of GA standing in front of a particular Villa but I can't now find the picture. It could be the one because it is described as being in the same vicinity.
Thank You Angelique :) that is novery interesting too! do you/anyone know if that narrative was taken from Mr Amaral's 'Truth of the Lie' documentary? if so I will watch it.... I think the fact that Mr Amaral is pointing in that direction is very telling...

The Vila Mr Amaral is in the documentary is the one rented by the Mccanns.