Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

uppatoffee wrote:Only Scotland Yard seem to be indicating any interest. Why?

How do we even know if that is true? He said it in one of his clips, and in a few reports it comes across that they even asked for more information. Who knows if it is a fact? If it is the truth, then it must be the strangest part of it all. I mean SY (Redwood) seems to be going with the mainstream and McCann's that she is still alive - probably another topic - but still. Now suddenly they are interested in a possible body/remains.

True. I am off the opinion though that Redwood was a great lengths to give nothing away about the nature of the investigation. We know practically nothing about what's going on, we don't even know if they have reinterviewed the Tapas 9, they are hardly likely to admit that themselves. Until the review is complete I am remaining hopeful that justice will be done for Madeleine.

uppatoffee wrote:True. I am off the opinion though that Redwood was a great lengths to give nothing away about the nature of the investigation. We know practically nothing about what's going on, we don't even know if they have reinterviewed the Tapas 9, they are hardly likely to admit that themselves. Until the review is complete I am remaining hopeful that justice will be done for Madeleine.

I was just thinking now, there was a report from Martin Brunt on this? I'll have to go look for it, but I'm almost sure now it was in some SKYnews update. Does it make it true? I don't know. First report from Martin Brunt on this case in a while, so maybe it does mean they are interested. I agree with the fact that Redwood will not give anything away about the nature of the investigation, so this may very well be true. I just thought chances are bigger for the PJ to be interested than SY. Never a dull moment hey?

Indeed! I wonder whether the pressure that was put on the PJ back in 2007 is still there? Certainly Pinto (?) seems incredibly opposed to Amaral and seems to be very keen to discredit him and the investigation.

sweetex wrote:

uppatoffee wrote:True. I am off the opinion though that Redwood was a great lengths to give nothing away about the nature of the investigation. We know practically nothing about what's going on, we don't even know if they have reinterviewed the Tapas 9, they are hardly likely to admit that themselves. Until the review is complete I am remaining hopeful that justice will be done for Madeleine.

I was just thinking now, there was a report from Martin Brunt on this? I'll have to go look for it, but I'm almost sure now it was in some SKYnews update. Does it make it true? I don't know. First report from Martin Brunt on this case in a while, so maybe it does mean they are interested. I agree with the fact that Redwood will not give anything away about the nature of the investigation, so this may very well be true. I just thought chances are bigger for the PJ to be interested than SY. Never a dull moment hey?

Could it be the spooks bringing people into line? Cameron's government were aledgedly railroaded into authorising the SY inquiry by the media. The media are like rabbits caught in the headlights with this story as it has not come from one of their approved sources. There is no journalism anymore, they get their stories from the Clarence Mitchell's of this world.

The PJ have their own control issues. I am sure the police on the ground at SY and the PJ know a lot more than they are allowed to act on. There is a power struggle at a higher level and this man looks like he is acting for one of the protagonists.

Maddie: South African businessman launches challenge to Robert Murat

Stephen Birch, South African businessman, says Maddie (pictured) is buried in the backyard of Murat and challenges Britain to do excavation



http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/exclusivo-cm/ele-que-deixe-escavar-o-local-com-video

Maddie again

by Moita Flores

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/opiniao/maddie-de-novo

uppatoffe wrote,

"If he has been put upto this, I can't understand who by, as there do not seem to be any obvious winners. It has just brought the case back into the spotlight once again. It is unlikely to bring increased revenue for the fund, it does bring the focus back to Murat but Birch has been clear he is not involved."



Who would benefit right now from this man's story?

My guess is somebody who needs a distraction and who has maintained or strongly suspected that either:

1. the parents had killed her and disposed of her body

or

2. she had an accident and the parents panicked and disposed of the body.



As you say this guy is stating strongly that Mr Murat is not involved which makes me feel that he is pointing the finger at the McCanns and that only benefits those who disbelieve them and think that they had some involvement in Madeleine's disappearance.

In my opinion, based only on what we have been fed to date, his statement does not ring true for a few reasons, the obvious being those two massive guard dogs. It would be so easy for the authorities to dig up Mr Murat's garden and prove this man wrong, so why make such an allegation? Maybe he has been paid by somebody who would benefit right now from a little distraction and I would not imagine that the McCanns need to do that currently.

Mr Murat and his family must wonder if this dreadful intrusion and interruption to their lives is ever going to end.

Meagain wrote:uppatoffe wrote,

"If he has been put upto this, I can't understand who by, as there do not seem to be any obvious winners. It has just brought the case back into the spotlight once again. It is unlikely to bring increased revenue for the fund, it does bring the focus back to Murat but Birch has been clear he is not involved."



Who would benefit right now from this man's story?

My guess is somebody who needs a distraction and who has maintained or strongly suspected that either:

1. the parents had killed her and disposed of her body

or

2. she had an accident and the parents panicked and disposed of the body.



As you say this guy is stating strongly that Mr Murat is not involved which makes me feel that he is pointing the finger at the McCanns and that only benefits those who disbelieve them and think that they had some involvement in Madeleine's disappearance.

In my opinion, based only on what we have been fed to date, his statement does not ring true for a few reasons, the obvious being those two massive guard dogs. It would be so easy for the authorities to dig up Mr Murat's garden and prove this man wrong, so why make such an allegation? Maybe he has been paid by somebody who would benefit right now from a little distraction and I would not imagine that the McCanns need to do that currently.

Mr Murat and his family must wonder if this dreadful intrusion and interruption to their lives is ever going to end.

Now, I wonder who you could be talking about here Kololi? The person I believe you are talking about has said that the garden was thoroughly searched. Why don't you openly say who you are talking about?

Lady-Heather wrote:

Clouseau wrote:I believe 103% in the dogs.

A corpse was in the back of that hire car so are we expected to believe that the child was relocated there 20 odd days later with the whole worlds media looking on

i dont think so

I disagree with this based on Martin Grimes statement regarding transferral of odour: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

If Kate's clothes/cuddle cat/other items were found to have been in contact with a cadavar, which then subsequently contacted another surface (the car boot) it is plausible that the dogs were alerting to odour which had transferred from one of these items to another.

But there was genetic material found in the boot of the car, not just odour. This material gave the impression it had been frozen or placed on ice.

So it wasn't simply odour they discovered in the car.

Welcome back Me - no, not me, the other one - you haven't been around for a while but your expertise in dealing with trolls is likely to be in demand soon.

I must admit that I'm very doubtful about this story and that it will amount to anything but we can only wait and see what happens.

Me wrote:

Lady-Heather wrote:

Clouseau wrote:I believe 103% in the dogs.

A corpse was in the back of that hire car so are we expected to believe that the child was relocated there 20 odd days later with the whole worlds media looking on

i dont think so

I disagree with this based on Martin Grimes statement regarding transferral of odour: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

If Kate's clothes/cuddle cat/other items were found to have been in contact with a cadavar, which then subsequently contacted another surface (the car boot) it is plausible that the dogs were alerting to odour which had transferred from one of these items to another.

But there was genetic material found in the boot of the car, not just odour. This material gave the impression it had been frozen or placed on ice.

So it wasn't simply odour they discovered in the car.

And the odour was bad enough that the boot had to be aired for several nights. Therefore I suspect it was more than just odour that had been transferred.

Stephen Birch, the South African that guarantees to have found indicia that Madeleine McCann is buried in Robert Murat's garden, challenges the Briton: “If he has nothing to fear, he should allow the place to be excavated”

In statements made to Correio da Manhã, Birch ensures that, after ​​the hole is made in the terrain, “everything would be restored” .

“That would clear all doubts”, argues the South African, that by means of a georadar machine detected variations in the subsoil in an area of Murat's garden, in Praia da Luz. The place is, according to Birch, in “the area of a cement pavement, that was added after the child's disappearance” in May 2007.

The challenge made by the South African businessman comes after the McCann family's lawyer defended that the authorities should investigate the leads provided by Birch. “The family does not investigate. What the family expects is for the police to take a position on this matter, to verify the site," said the lawyer Rogério Alves, who defends Kate and Gerry McCann, to CM.

Meanwhile, to substantiate his theory, Stepehn Birch uploaded a video where he appears analysing, with the georadar, the terrain of Murat's villa in Praia da Luz. The businessman shows, in the divulged footage, the results obtained by his private investigation and explains what led him to conclude that Maddie is buried in that garden. In the video shows an image obtained with the georadar at the terrain “where it is clear that there is a cavity, bellow the driveway, and in that cavity is an object”. The “image shows that the soil was disturbed with a spade”.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/07/south-african-businessman-challenges.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JoanaMorais+%28Joana+Morais%29

There is also a report in the SA main Sunday paper. Basically just saying what we all know already. http://www.rapport.co.za/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Kapenaar-seker-hy-vind-Maddie-se-lyk-20120707

ETA: In the SA paper the only thing I can see new is that he says he is afraid that someone is going to dig without authorities being present. He also says he is not aware of any reward.

Candyfloss.

For the same simple reason that you deleted a person's initials in some posts. Whilst I might hazard a few guesses as to who may have caused this, without it being known as a fact, I don't have a right to state it was them. My post was merely my take to a question posed by another poster. I stand by my post and guess that it is far more likely that it would not be the McCanns in this instance who have anything to gain from this man's claims.

K.

Taken from the report that Sweetex kindly posted:

"The place is, according to Birch, in “the area of a cement pavement, that was added after the child's disappearance” in May 2007."


and

"The “image shows that the soil was disturbed with a spade”."



I have to ask, how on earth do you disturb cement with a spade?

If he means the soil under the cement is disturbed, then it would be because you have to dig out and lay a layer of a sort of stoney mix which gets tamped down to give a firm base before the cement gets laid when laying a path or drive.

K.

Meagain wrote:Candyfloss.

For the same simple reason that you deleted a person's initials in some posts. Whilst I might hazard a few guesses as to who may have caused this, without it being known as a fact, I don't have a right to state it was them. My post was merely my take to a question posed by another poster. I stand by my post and guess that it is far more likely that it would not be the McCanns in this instance who have anything to gain from this man's claims.

K.

How on earth would he gain? He was in charge of the investigation, and who oversaw the searching of the garden and stated in an article a just a couple of days ago they were searched thoroughly with the British dogs and forensic people and all the radar equipment, diggers etc. Can you explain how he could gain from this?

Cristobell wrote: I have just watched the Stephen Birch video, and can now see why there is reluctance to follow this through.

Herewith the link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQhe05pkcYg

I watched it yesterday and that is when I became sceptical too. Unless he has other information we don't know about.

Just out of interest, the words "terrible deed" caught my eye. It is on the running text before the actual clip starts. It would be interesting to hear his theory. Or is he just talking about possible hiding of the corpse?

uppatoffe wrote,

"If he has been put upto this, I can't understand who by, as there do not seem to be any obvious winners. It has just brought the case back into the spotlight once again. It is unlikely to bring increased revenue for the fund, it does bring the focus back to Murat but Birch has been clear he is not involved."

Mr Murat and his family must wonder if this dreadful intrusion and interruption to their lives is ever going to end.[/quote]

uppatoffe,

I personally don`t believe this is ever going to end for the Murat family, unless the body will be found. To me it is the best oportunity for Murat to prove a second time that he is not in any way involved in this. Why not offer them to have that hole digged? That is all he needs to do before rumours start to spead again. With regard to the McCanns, I am also inclined to think that Birch points into the direction that the parents are actively involved, for sure that is something he cannot publicly admit before the body is found. I cannot really tell why, but I don`t think Birch is a fake or paid by the other side, to me he seems quite trustworthy.

Also, disposing of the body in a well-searched and thus absolutely dead certain location like the Murat property, to me that has cunning good wristband qualities.

sweetex wrote:

Cristobell wrote: I have just watched the Stephen Birch video, and can now see why there is reluctance to follow this through.

Herewith the link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQhe05pkcYg

I watched it yesterday and that is when I became sceptical too. Unless he has other information we don't know about.

Just out of interest, the words "terrible deed" caught my eye. It is on the running text before the actual clip starts. It would be interesting to hear his theory. Or is he just talking about possible hiding of the corpse?

I would be interested to read his theory too Sweetex. The words 'terrible deed' could indicate inside knowledge, but I remain sceptical. At the start of the video, he is adamant that Madeleine was buried in that place, on the night of 3rd May. This simply doesn't fit with everything else we know about the case. The garden was extensively searched, the dogs did not alert, and indeed, there are two large dogs who live at the property.

For the PJ and the Portuguese people the case is closed, and in this present economic climate, it is understandable that they do not want to commit money and resources on a re-opening. I think the PJ will once more be hammered by the British media, but as we well know, spin and misinformation has dominated this investigation from the beginning.

I am disinclined to believe this.
Surely it is quite possible to have soil disturbance especially after the police have been digging up the garden in the first place, or the builders when setting out the path did not compact the earth properly, or a pocket created by rocks. After all how much space would a little body take up? The PJ I am sure would have found it when they first searched, after all, its purported to be so close to the surface not so? and there was no path then eh?

I think tis another Red Herring supposedly from sunny SA (sounds remote and exotic like Morocco etc. and belongs with Danie Krugels revelations.

sweetex wrote:Stephen Birch, the South African that guarantees to have found indicia that Madeleine McCann is buried in Robert Murat's garden, challenges the Briton: “If he has nothing to fear, he should allow the place to be excavated”

In statements made to Correio da Manhã, Birch ensures that, after ​​the hole is made in the terrain, “everything would be restored” .

“That would clear all doubts”, argues the South African, that by means of a georadar machine detected variations in the subsoil in an area of Murat's garden, in Praia da Luz. The place is, according to Birch, in “the area of a cement pavement, that was added after the child's disappearance” in May 2007.

The challenge made by the South African businessman comes after the McCann family's lawyer defended that the authorities should investigate the leads provided by Birch. “The family does not investigate. What the family expects is for the police to take a position on this matter, to verify the site," said the lawyer Rogério Alves, who defends Kate and Gerry McCann, to CM.

Meanwhile, to substantiate his theory, Stepehn Birch uploaded a video where he appears analysing, with the georadar, the terrain of Murat's villa in Praia da Luz. The businessman shows, in the divulged footage, the results obtained by his private investigation and explains what led him to conclude that Maddie is buried in that garden. In the video shows an image obtained with the georadar at the terrain “where it is clear that there is a cavity, bellow the driveway, and in that cavity is an object”. The “image shows that the soil was disturbed with a spade”.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/07/south-african-businessman-challenges.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JoanaMorais+%28Joana+Morais%29

There is also a report in the SA main Sunday paper. Basically just saying what we all know already. http://www.rapport.co.za/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Kapenaar-seker-hy-vind-Maddie-se-lyk-20120707

ETA: In the SA paper the only thing I can see new is that he says he is afraid that someone is going to dig without authorities being present. He also says he is not aware of any reward.

A snip from your post,

The place is, according to Birch, in “the area of a cement pavement, that was added after the child's disappearance” in May 2007.

How can he possibly know that, that it was added after May 2007. I have areas of concrete base from all sizes and shapes and lengths of time and I couldn't say when they were laid other than looking at the billsfor materials and labour. They all look the same.

Who benefits from this story? It’s interesting to look at some of what Birch says in the video http://expresso.sapo.pt/conheca-o-sul-africano-que-diz-ter-descoberto-restos-mortais-de-maddie=f737713

He says he drew various maps to determine ‘times and distances’ assumingly drawn from witness statements and ends up searching Murat’s place. Out of 360 degrees he ends up taking the trail that the T9 and JT’s ‘bundleman’ pointed everyone to. A man by his own admission with an eye for detail. Hmmm.

“I agree with Mr Amaral who put tremendous effort into this case, that Madeleine’s body went into the ground that same evening, in other words I don’t believe that Madeleine’s body was transported in a hire vehicle 23 days later....”

So the man who claims to have an eye for detail has just – in one unfinished sentence - put words into Amaral’s mouth and then totally dismissed some of the most compelling evidence in the case, that of Eddie and Keela and the genetic material found in the boot of that car. Of course GA has never said any such thing to my knowledge. On the contrary he claims the evidence lends towards a body being frozen and later transported in that hire car. Rather than agreeing with GA, he contradicts him completely.

“...Madeleine died on the 3rd of May 2007 and on that same evening her body went into the ground.....”

Thanks for that statement of *fact* Mr Birch. So in finishing the sentence above you now confirm that there is no need for us to bother looking earlier in the week then, no need to examine dodgy crèche records and phone calls, no need to question why a certain person appears to perhaps be signing in someone elses child from the day after arrival, a person whom he appears not to have known, or certainly not made known to the police. No need to question why no dna of M’s at all found in 5A, in other words, no evidence of a live child, M, being there. And as you don’t believe the dog’s evidence, I assume you dismiss the evidence of there being a dead body in that apartment, a dead body yet to be accounted for, just as lightly.

There’s more but I can’t be bothered. Who benefits. Well despite his claims of independence he appears to be supporting the McCann line, and when a body isn’t found there they will once again be victims chanting the mantra of no evidence to say she is dead. The man is either a bull headed fool or there is much more to this than meets the eye.

It’s too much of a coincidence that a South African psychic was trying to alert people to this almost exact same story 15 months ago just befor the bewk publishing and now, someone else in SA, seemingly independent, is coming up with the same tale. Got to be a connection there.

monkey mind wrote:Who benefits from this story? It’s interesting to look at some of what Birch says in the video http://expresso.sapo.pt/conheca-o-sul-africano-que-diz-ter-descoberto-restos-mortais-de-maddie=f737713

He says he drew various maps to determine ‘times and distances’ assumingly drawn from witness statements and ends up searching Murat’s place. Out of 360 degrees he ends up taking the trail that the T9 and JT’s ‘bundleman’ pointed everyone to. A man by his own admission with an eye for detail. Hmmm.

“I agree with Mr Amaral who put tremendous effort into this case, that Madeleine’s body went into the ground that same evening, in other words I don’t believe that Madeleine’s body was transported in a hire vehicle 23 days later....”

So the man who claims to have an eye for detail has just – in one unfinished sentence - put words into Amaral’s mouth and then totally dismissed some of the most compelling evidence in the case, that of Eddie and Keela and the genetic material found in the boot of that car. Of course GA has never said any such thing to my knowledge. On the contrary he claims the evidence lends towards a body being frozen and later transported in that hire car. Rather than agreeing with GA, he contradicts him completely.

“...Madeleine died on the 3rd of May 2007 and on that same evening her body went into the ground.....”

Thanks for that statement of *fact* Mr Birch. So in finishing the sentence above you now confirm that there is no need for us to bother looking earlier in the week then, no need to examine dodgy crèche records and phone calls, no need to question why a certain person appears to perhaps be signing in someone elses child from the day after arrival, a person whom he appears not to have known, or certainly not made known to the police. No need to question why no dna of M’s at all found in 5A, in other words, no evidence of a live child, M, being there. And as you don’t believe the dog’s evidence, I assume you dismiss the evidence of there being a dead body in that apartment, a dead body yet to be accounted for, just as lightly.

There’s more but I can’t be bothered. Who benefits. Well despite his claims of independence he appears to be supporting the McCann line, and when a body isn’t found there they will once again be victims chanting the mantra of no evidence to say she is dead. The man is either a bull headed fool or there is much more to this than meets the eye.

It’s too much of a coincidence that a South African psychic was trying to alert people to this almost exact same story 15 months ago just befor the bewk publishing and now, someone else in SA, seemingly independent, is coming up with the same tale. Got to be a connection there.

Superb piece of analysis.

"...despite his claims of independence he appears to be supporting the McCann line, and when a body isn’t found there they will once again be victims chanting the mantra of no evidence to say she is dead."

Spot on.

Seems a very odd way to go about getting this message across though. It undoubtably puts the spotlight back on the parents at the moment.

Also, the fact that Horrocks rubbish was reprinted literally the day before this story broke smacks of preemptive strike, which we have seen so often from the McCann camp. I do not think that this has come from them or Clarrie.