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Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 14 Mm11

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Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 14 Mm11

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Post by Guest 07.07.12 20:49

Paulo Reis asking some questions, but are they about the same man, he is asking about Daniel Krugel?

Paulo Reis@pjreis

Madeleine McCann Case: "Looking for a South African 'body locator" - http://tinyurl.com/6ugfm23
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Post by russiandoll 07.07.12 21:06

Say the name Ben Needham not Madeleine McCann but keep Birch. He tells Greek police he thinks he has located human remains after trepassing on private Greek property close to where the little boy disappeared. He sends his findings to British and Greek police, then tells the media. A search was already done by police at the property. What do you think the police forces of both countries would do upon receipt of this new information?

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Post by ShuBob 07.07.12 21:11

russiandoll wrote:Say the name Ben Needham not Madeleine McCann but keep Birch. He tells Greek police he thinks he has located human remains after trepassing on private Greek property close to where the little boy diappeared. He sends his findings to British and Greek police, then tells the media. A search was already done at the property. What do you think the police forces of both countries would do?

Only recently, news emerged that Greek police think Ben died after falling in a building site. This followed new information from a JCB driver who claimed he'd been working around the area at the time of the disappearance. Read Ben's mother's reaction to the news here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149277/Ben-Needham-latest-news-Greek-police-fear-missing-toddler-died-tragic-accident.html
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Post by Rob Royston 07.07.12 21:46

ShuBob wrote:
Woofer wrote:
ShuBob wrote:The PJ didn't search the Arade dam when that lawyer claimed to have received information from the underworld that Maddie's body lay there. Why should they now search Murat's garden AGAIN just to put certain people's minds at rest?

Because it could have been put there after the police search. Anyway ShuBob, wouldn`t you dig that area up if it was in your garden?

But that's not what Birch is claiming. He says his investigation puts the burial date as the night of Maddie's disappearance- 3rd May 2007. Based on such information, no, I wouldn't dig my garden!

All the police need to do is check with their own equipment and if there is anything there then it's just a small dig to check it out.

When you consider all the people who were in the resort that week that were linked to the McCann's in some way (a convention?), and all the high profile support from people in positions of power, anything is possible. She may have been taken for any evil reason and her body used to keep people in check. I am concerned that the Portugeuse and UK Police could be under the control of evil people as well.
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Post by Gillyspot 07.07.12 22:41

Birch said he had already sent the relevant information off to SY & the PJ before letting it out to the media. Probably for self protection & to make sure he gets a response from the relevant police forces.

I don't know whether he is lying or truthful but he has at least done it the right way around to me. IMO the PJ need to check the area he has suggested with their own equipment & if they find a void then they need to dig.

UK media haven't as yet shared it is Murat's mothers garden & IMO this story is easier to check than the 100s of spurious sightings from over 2 years ago the UK media trot out on behalf of the McCanns.

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Post by sweetex 07.07.12 22:52

Just got back from an evening out.... just to read they are dismissing the claims.

I agree with all posters above that it can not be ignored. Not only for Maddie, but for all we know it could be another person's remains. For all we know he is a con, but now we will never know. How much can it actually cost to dig up a small piece of a garden? How long can it take?

Something is not right Sad
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Post by tuom 07.07.12 22:58

sweetex wrote:Just got back from an evening out.... just to read they are dismissing the claims.

I agree with all posters above that it can not be ignored. Not only for Maddie, but for all we know it could be another person's remains. For all we know he is a con, but now we will never know. How much can it actually cost to dig up a small piece of a garden? How long can it take?

Something is not right Sad



Where did you see that they are dismissing the claims , that is such a pity ,
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Post by Guest 07.07.12 23:01

Here tuom...........

candyfloss wrote:Article here from Joana Morais, Attorney General's Office and Expert dismiss speculation about Maddie's body..... from the paper edition of Journal de Noticias................

Attorney General's Office and Expert dismiss speculation about Maddie's body

[url=http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/07/attorney-generals-office-and-expert.html?utm_source=BP_recent
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/07/attorney-generals-office-and-expert.html?utm_source=BP_recent[/quote[/url]]
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Post by tuom 07.07.12 23:14

candyfloss wrote:Here tuom...........

candyfloss wrote:Article here from Joana Morais, Attorney General's Office and Expert dismiss speculation about Maddie's body..... from the paper edition of Journal de Noticias................

Attorney General's Office and Expert dismiss speculation about Maddie's body

[/quote]



Thank you Candyfloss , I have been watching this all day I did not post as it is one of those things that you know is just not right , I think in the interview at Lisbon Airport when SB said MMC died and was put in the ground was a bit off for me anyway, seeing as the place was searched.
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Post by ShuBob 07.07.12 23:14

tuom wrote:
sweetex wrote:Just got back from an evening out.... just to read they are dismissing the claims.

I agree with all posters above that it can not be ignored. Not only for Maddie, but for all we know it could be another person's remains. For all we know he is a con, but now we will never know. How much can it actually cost to dig up a small piece of a garden? How long can it take?

Something is not right Sad



Where did you see that they are dismissing the claims , that is such a pity ,

As an ordinary citizen, I dismiss the claims purely based on what I've read thus far. If Birch has stronger evidence which he hasn't made public but has sent to the relevant authorities, then they should take it seriously. It's easy to suggest the lives of innocent people should be disrupted based on spurious claims when we are not in their shoes.
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Post by Guest 07.07.12 23:22

[quote="ShuBob"]
tuom wrote:
sweetex wrote:Just got back from an evening out.... just to read they are dismissing the claims.

I agree with all posters above that it can not be ignored. Not only for Maddie, but for all we know it could be another person's remains. For all we know he is a con, but now we will never know. How much can it actually cost to dig up a small piece of a garden? How long can it take?

Something is not right Sad



Where did you see that they are dismissing the claims , that is such a pity ,

As an ordinary citizen, I dismiss the claims purely based on what I've read thus far. If Birch has stronger evidence which he hasn't made public but has sent to the relevant authorities, then they should take it seriously. It's easy to suggest the lives of innocent people should be disrupted based on spurious claims when we are not in their shoes.[/quote]



Imo I think their lives will be worse if they don't put an end to the rumour and gossip. They will have the media on their doorstep 24/7 asking questions etc. and won't be able to have a peaceful life. If they agreed to have this small piece of garden dug up (and according to Birch he knows exactly which bit because he thinks he has seen what look like bones) it would certainly put a stop to all that, and then Mr Birch will have to answer some very awkward questions himself.
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Post by ShuBob 07.07.12 23:24

I don't think so personally but each to their own.
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Post by ShuBob 07.07.12 23:27

Assuming the Murats agree to have the garden dug up this time if the police ignore the story, what's to stop another Birch coming along and claiming the body was buried at another part of the property? Where will it end? For any digging to take place, I would expect more evidence to the relevant authorities justifying such action.
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Post by sweetex 07.07.12 23:28

I hear you. And what you say makes probably sense. My thinking is:

1) If it was my child missing - I'd do anything, and I mean anything to have this followed up. If there is the slightest possibility that my child's body/remains was found I'd do anything to get to Portugal and ask the PJ to assist. I'd probably try and contact SB, to ask him a few questions.

2) If it was me living in that house, I'll practically beg the PJ to come do the excavations. Who wants to sleep inside a house with the possibility of having a body in your garden. Not me that I can assure you.

3) As someone said above, MM has been missing for 5 years. The PJ knows she is dead. They dismiss any claims of sightings, any claims of that she could still be alive. If I am not mistaken, its in the latest report too. They know she died. So now they have a chance or a possibility of finding her body and they dismiss it? Unless they know something we don't?

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Post by ShuBob 07.07.12 23:38

sweetex wrote:I hear you. And what you say makes probably sense. My thinking is:

1) If it was my child missing - I'd do anything, and I mean anything to have this followed up. If there is the slightest possibility that my child's body/remains was found I'd do anything to get to Portugal and ask the PJ to assist. I'd probably try and contact SB, to ask him a few questions.

2) If it was me living in that house, I'll practically beg the PJ to come do the excavations. Who wants to sleep inside a house with the possibility of having a body in your garden. Not me that I can assure you.

3) As someone said above, MM has been missing for 5 years. The PJ knows she is dead. They dismiss any claims of sightings, any claims of that she could still be alive. If I am not mistaken, its in the latest report too. They know she died. So now they have a chance or a possibility of finding her body and they dismiss it? Unless they know something we don't?

Quite.
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Post by maebee 08.07.12 0:06

sweetex wrote:I hear you. And what you say makes probably sense. My thinking is:

1) If it was my child missing - I'd do anything, and I mean anything to have this followed up. If there is the slightest possibility that my child's body/remains was found I'd do anything to get to Portugal and ask the PJ to assist. I'd probably try and contact SB, to ask him a few questions.

2) If it was me living in that house, I'll practically beg the PJ to come do the excavations. Who wants to sleep inside a house with the possibility of having a body in your garden. Not me that I can assure you.

3) As someone said above, MM has been missing for 5 years. The PJ knows she is dead. They dismiss any claims of sightings, any claims of that she could still be alive. If I am not mistaken, its in the latest report too. They know she died. So now they have a chance or a possibility of finding her body and they dismiss it? Unless they know something we don't?

Indeed sweetex. The McCanns mantra of "leaving no stone unturned" doesn't seem to apply here.
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Post by Blimunda 08.07.12 0:16

sweetex wrote:I hear you. And what you say makes probably sense. My thinking is:

1) If it was my child missing - I'd do anything, and I mean anything to have this followed up. If there is the slightest possibility that my child's body/remains was found I'd do anything to get to Portugal and ask the PJ to assist. I'd probably try and contact SB, to ask him a few questions.

2) If it was me living in that house, I'll practically beg the PJ to come do the excavations. Who wants to sleep inside a house with the possibily of having a body in your garden. Not me that I can assure you.

3) As someone said above, MM has been missing for 5 years. The PJ knows she is dead. They dismiss any claims of sightings, any claims of that she could still be alive. If I am not mistaken, its in the latest report too. They know she died. So now they have a chance or a possibility of finding her body and they dismiss it? Unless they know something we don't?

"Unless they know something we don't?"
Do you have any doubts that the PJ know more than us?!!
Are we now supposed to believe everything that a South-African says about such a matter?
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Post by sweetex 08.07.12 8:45

Blimunda wrote:"Unless they know something we don't?"
Do you have any doubts that the PJ know more than us?!!
Are we now supposed to believe everything that a South-African says about such a matter?

The fact that he is from SA is irrelevant to me. I would have feel the same if he was from any other country? I mean does it really matter?

I'm sure the PJ know more than us, but they have still not found anything new, and this could be something new. Maybe its not a body, but something else related to the case. So in another 10 years time and they still have not found anything, will it then be ok for them to start digging?

I'm sure there were 1000's of leads on this case. There are plenty of people trying to get their 5 minutes of fame. But are there still THAT many leads - after 5 years? Are there other people too sending their evidence to 2 different police forces for investigation? I'm not saying he is for real. but as a mother I would not be able to ignore this one. IMO

ETA: Initially Kate and the T7 were very quick to blame Murat. Kate said more than once that she thinks he is guilty and "I feel like killing him". Only that gives her or the family enough reason to make something of this. Still I'm not saying SB is true, and I'm not blaming Murat. I just wonder, if that was how they felt in the first few weeks, why not following up on this?
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Post by Rob Royston 08.07.12 8:52

In the UK they are blowing doors off people's houses and arresting them on suspision of "terrorism". In this case, the PJ, on the street, accept that they are looking for a body, but it seems that their hands are tied by those in power.

Is this McCann case now a circus to keep our minds occupied while the real crimes go on above our level of understanding or care?
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Post by joyce1938 08.07.12 9:20

roy roysten, i have had that question on my mind of late too,it certainly does work too ,look how many more people seem to be on sites now? it had been too quiet on most sites for few months .I read an article from jooas site ,it seems to put it clearly that there may be anomolies and its built over a roman area,and it has been very well searched and dug up and dogs ,and as the s a ,chap is also saying the intering was on a definate time and day ,its more than i can understand how he can pinpoint that closely ?sorry spelt JOANNA WRONG. joyce1938
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Post by One 08.07.12 9:25

Rob Royston wrote: Is this McCann case now a circus to keep our minds occupied while the real crimes go on above our level of understanding or care?

I think it's merely the law of supply and demand. There's something almost big brotherish about this whole case and has been from the start. There's something for everyone in this story sort of like a "somebody done someone wrong song" so even 5 years on the press can publish anything and we'll still buy it, churn it over and analyse it and the parents pop up like a bad penny for another interview and we accept it and almost welcome it.

I can identify with Stephen Birch, Madeleine needs to be put to rest and the McCann couple taken out of the spotlight, they've definitely outstayed their 15 minutes of fame. But I doubt very much that the answer lies here no matter how many holes they dig at Casa Liliana.
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Post by Guest 08.07.12 9:27

Looks like Robert Murat may be suing Birch, from Joana Morais blog today, which has pictures of the man and his machine......

Robert Murat likely to sue South African businessman

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/07/robert-murat-likely-to-sue-south.html
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Post by russiandoll 08.07.12 9:37

Having slept on this , I can't give much if any credence to Birch because of the simple matter of the dog working with Mr Grime. The work of Grime with Eddie and Morse in the recent case of alleged child abduction in the USA only strengthens my belief in the wonderful work they do. I find it difficult to accept that a body was buried after this search on Murat's property, but unless the police know the impossibility of this having happened, rather than its implausibility, I still can't understand why when police are still none the wiser about who moved Maddie from one location to another and where she is, alive or not, they do not draw a line under this by searching and confirming or not Birch's claims. There must be procedures they are obliged or not to follow when claims like this are made.
Why this sensational story has not appeared even briefly in some of our newspapers puzzles me, even if they rubbish it. The biggest Maddie news story in how long and it is being ignored completely by most media in the UK. It can't be for fear of libel suits from Murat because if they report it and say he was cleared they can rubbish Birch's claims while simultaneously letting the wide public know about them.
What kind of information will the Portuguese police follow up? I wish the Attorney General would give an example of the type of information they would consider not to be mere speculation. No wonder the case is stagnant.
This episode is a puzzle, the real interest for me is in what is in the background. Who is going to benefit from these sensational claims made by Birch?

p.s.no stone left unturned, unless the stone is in certain locations?

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Post by Cheshire Cat 08.07.12 10:01

russiandoll wrote: Having slept on this , I can't give much if any credence to Birch because of the simple matter of the dog working with Mr Grime. The work of Grime with Eddie and Morse in the recent case of alleged child abduction in the USA only strengthens my belief in the wonderful work they do. I find it difficult to accept that a body was buried after this search on Murat's property, but unless the police know the impossibility of this having happened, rather than its implausibility, I still can't understand why when police are still none the wiser about who moved Maddie from one location to another and where she is, alive or not, they do not draw a line under this by searching and confirming or not Birch's claims. There must be procedures they are obliged or not to follow when claims like this are made.
Why this sensational story has not appeared even briefly in some of our newspapers puzzles me, even if they rubbish it. The biggest Maddie news story in how long and it is being ignored completely by most media in the UK. It can't be for fear of libel suits from Murat because if they report it and say he was cleared they can rubbish Birch's claims while simultaneously letting the wide public know about them.
What kind of information will the Portuguese police follow up? I wish the Attorney General would give an example of the type of information they would consider not to be mere speculation. No wonder the case is stagnant.
This episode is a puzzle, the real interest for me is in what is in the background. Who is going to benefit from these sensational claims made by Birch?

p.s.no stone left unturned, unless the stone is in certain locations?

Good post. From what I can see the bloggers and posters are united in their scepticism of this story. From what little evidence there is of Birch on the internet, prior to this story, he doesn't appear to be a major player in real estate and property development in South Africa.
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Post by uppatoffee 08.07.12 10:22

I am sceptical of Birch's claims, however I am also curious to his motive. He has said he does not think Murat is in any way involved and he has said he does not want contact with the McCanns. He also does not seem like a complete loon! So what is his agenda? Even if trespass doesn't result in a prison sentence, I would have thought opening yourself up to civil lawsuits is unwise unless you are pretty confident in what you are saying.

If he has been put upto this, I can't understand who by, as there do not seem to be any obvious winners. It has just brought the case back into the spotlight once again. It is unlikely to bring increased revenue for the fund, it does bring the focus back to Murat but Birch has been clear he is not involved. The Portuguese are saying it's nonsense. The McCanns themselves do not appear to be bothered by the claims. Only Scotland Yard seem to be indicating any interest. Why?
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