Where would a body be hidden?

I find it hard (but not impossible) to believe that the parents would move a body in their car boot. However, I could readily believe that other items which had been in contact with a body, or the fluids from that body, could have been transported this way to be dumped.


Something from a body made the dogs bark, of that I'm sure.

Lance De Boils wrote:I find it hard (but not impossible) to believe that the parents would move a body in their car boot. However, I could readily believe that other items which had been in contact with a body, or the fluids from that body, could have been transported this way to be dumped.


Something from a body made the dogs bark, of that I'm sure.

Didn't Dr Amaral state that they found bodily fluids in the car wheel well, which implied refrigeration?  If fluids were found, then that would have to be from a body surely?

I'm in the view that although some assistance from outside parties (not entirely sure who) were certainly involved in the transportation of the body from A to B but from B to C IT'S ONLY Gerry who knows the exact location where MBM was finally laid to rest.

Kate could not be trusted with that information nor anyone else who was involved in the cover up. There is no way Gerry would would allow a single person to know the EXACT whereabouts. "Find the body and prove it" smug / arrogant remark tells me he knows and also knows that nobody else does (not even his wife as she is highly likely to crack at some point and he knows that too).

All IMO of course.

I think er first resting place when removed from the apartment  was in a house within PdL. That of one of the wider circle of
'friends' whose interest it was in to have 'whatever was going on at OC that week' covered up. The body was stored in a refridgerator / freezer until such time as it could be moved to final resting place by GM (Probably in hire car) . I agree that probably GM is the only person aware of her final resting place, so that he is in control. I would think it is buried in a large deserted areas with little chance of being discovered by walkers / dogs. I think GM is quite sure that noone will discover it hence his smug remark

Forget about the wild conspiracy theories, secret service collaborators et al, I don't believe anyone other than Kate and Gerry McCann know where their daughter is interred. Their confidence that the body will never be found and the amount of money that has been offered for information regarding the whereabouts of the aforementioned, not to mention the immunity from prosecution deals that would undoubtably be on offer tends to substantiate my thesis. I also don't believe Kate is the weak link either, if anything she is the more mercenary of the two.

Despite the scenting of the dogs on the Renault McCann, I also don't believe the body was transported at a later stage, it was too risky and the McCanns haven't got that sort of bottle, after all they're doctors, not reincarnations of Burke and Hare. Its my belief that the body is much closer to the apt. where they were staying and that it was more likely to have been discreetly transported in a large bag as opposed to being openly conveyed, therefore the Tanner and Smithman theories are not even worth considering. Even in the highly unlikely scenario that there had been a kidnapping/abduction, they perpetrators would not have carried Madeleine away in open arms.

There is of course the possibility that the McCanns took a chance and dumped her body in a garbage can and if that is the case, it will never be found under tons of waste in a landfill site. They may have got lucky, but would they have taken the chance that the entire area wouldn't have been sealed off with every dumpster being searched, I think not. It is not  true to state that the McCanns were unfamiliar with the terrain, because Kate was taking 4 mile jogging trips on a daily basis prior to the disappearance which would have given her the opportunity to familiarise herself with the area. I think we can also forget about Gerry slipping off in the confusion around the time of Kate raising the alarm, the body would have been disposed of long before they set out for the Tapas bar.

The paramount issues to determine are 1/When was the last sighting of Madeleine which can be 100% substantiated  and 2/ Is there any possibility that Gerry had transport available to him prior to the time of Madeleine's disappearance. The second option is unlikely, because Gerry would not possess the knowledge to steal a car and the money available for information would have been too tempting for anyone who had lent him a car at the time. There's no honour amongst friends anymore than there is thieves. Therefore the only realistic chance of ever finding the body/remains is to go on the assumption that Gerry physically transported it on foot, probably in a large sized bag.

There may well be more sophisticated methods of pursuing my theory, but the only one I can think of is to requisition a male approximately the same physique as Gerry, laden him with a weight equatable to a 4 yr. old child and measure the maximum distance he is able to travel before reaching exhaustion point. Circle the circumference of that distance from the apt. and concentrate the search on that area. It may be a gargantuan and expensive exercise, but I fear it may be the only realistic chance of ever finding Madeleine's remains. Certainly such an exercise would be a far more worthy cause than spending £millions on chasing ponces, queers and comic singers around the hemisphere.

This thread really should be the top subject on this forum, because no matter how many anomalies there may be in the McCann's statements or how many times Gerry scratches his ear etc. etc. there jus' ain't going to be any prosecutions unless the body is found and the McCann bandwagon will continue rolling on.

If there was no car I would think a baby buggy with the hood down could be a better option than carrying.

dantezebu wrote:If there was no car I would think a baby buggy with the hood down could be a better option than carrying.

That's a plausible possibility, or even a supermercado trolley, although the latter would be conspicuous once leaving the holiday resort area and entering the open terrain.

Lance De Boils wrote:I find it hard (but not impossible) to believe that the parents would move a body in their car boot. However, I could readily believe that other items which had been in contact with a body, or the fluids from that body, could have been transported this way to be dumped.


Something from a body made the dogs bark, of that I'm sure.

For me, one of the strangest things in this case is that the parents, as doctors, deny the findings of the cadaver dogs. As doctors they would know that cadaver fluid has an undeniable scent. How on earth did they get away with that one?

reading these imo i agree with andrew on GM being the one in charge knowing KM is cracking already «in the bewk» giving wild dreams visions etc which imo is her way of drawing attention to things that we go why would she say that??? i believe she may be telling things in the only way she, can. Gm looks a lil out there and smug....jmo they are both up to their ears in lies and more....

PeterMac wrote:Blue tennis bag - big enough to hide a, err, err, err Tennis racquet in -
fridge somewhere - Have you ever met X before - I'm obviously not going to answer that - local priest 'life destroyed'
Wait until you have access to hire car
and then the Algarve is your oyster.

There is no end to the possibilities or of the theories that people may "purport' in the absence of the truth

The Murat connection was never really explained or clarified was it. Did he or did he not know Gerry? TextUSA has Murat's place as the initial storage place for the bag/body, which was then moved in the early hours again. But Diatribe is right - how far can you get without a car? Not far enough. So now you need to find a freezer... And under pressure, with a dead body - that's a tough find. Churches don't have one, so that really only leaves Murat or some other 'local friend' prepared to commit a grievous crime... The location of her body is probably one of the biggest mysteries, and one that perhaps will never be solved.

I don't think Murat or anyone one else in the locality would have involved themselves with concealing a body, after all, these were comparatively straight people and this is the Algarve, not the Costa del Sol. Also, as previously stated, the McCanns wouldn't have put their futures in the hands of others, particularly casual acquaintances. Think about it, how many combatants on this forum have got a friend or acquaintance who they would trust with such an assignment with any degree of confidence.

The most sensible hypothesis I have read on this thread is that of Dante, who suggests the body could conceivably have been conveyed to its place of interment in a buggy. Not only could a greater distance have been achieved, but it wouldn't have attracted undue attention, although this of course would mean that both the McCanns would have participated in the transportation, because a sole male wheeling a buggy would have been more conspicuous than a couple. Also two could dig a grave faster than one. Does anyone know if  the dogs were given access to the McCann's buggys? 

I'm not convinced about the authenticity or accuracy of the timings vis a vis Madeleine's last sighting either, because if the dogs are to be believed with their scentings in the apt. then the body would have to been there for a certain amount of time, perhaps longer than the 5.30 -6 pm last sighting would have allowed for. At the end of the day its all conjecture, but one thing is for sure, the £millions of British Taxpayer's money being wasted on an investigation in the UK when the evidence in the form of a body is in Portugal isn't going to resolve this matter.

I live in Woodford and I wouldn't expect our local Guardian newspaper to launch a £750,000 appeal for potential witnesses to a bank robbery which occurred in Glasgow 6 yrs. ago. 

The buggy is interesting. Didn't KM say in the book that they didn't have one? And yet we have all seen photographs with them pushing a buggy.

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Picture B has always struck me as odd, I don't know why exactly.

WHmon, buggies were given by Mark Warner, I think.  Clearly there was a selection available from somewhere.  These are different, so they had a choice available to them

whmon wrote:The buggy is interesting. Didn't KM say in the book that they didn't have one? And yet we have all seen photographs with them pushing a buggy.

According to Kate, she and her spouse chose not to take their children's buggies on holiday and she cites the first night walk to and from the Millenium restaurant with a 3 year old and 2 year old twins as the reason why they only ate one evening meal at that establishment and chose to breakfast in 5A at their own expense despite having paid upfront for the halfboard option. 

According to an independent witness statement the McCann family were regulars for breakfast at the Millenium. 

According to Matthew Oldfield, when describing 5A, there was a place by the door where the McCanns' buggies (note plural) were kept.

To my mind, two parents setting off for a week's holiday with a 3 year old, 2 toddlers, 2 suitcases, hand luggage, and no buggies is about as realistic as the prospect of Gerald McCann putting his hand in his sporran pocket to buy food in order to make meals he'd already paid for.

whmon wrote:The buggy is interesting. Didn't KM say in the book that they didn't have one? And yet we have all seen photographs with them pushing a buggy.

It probably doesn't mean anything, but its interesting that she thinks it relevant to write in her book that they didn't have access to a buggy if indeed they did, particularly in the vein that at that time it wasn't a bone of contention as far as I am aware.

One of the reasons I discount the later moving of the body, apart from the danger and impracticability of course, is the fact that she derides the possibility of them doing so when stating ''We are supposed to have buried the body so well that we felt the need to move it for reburial' (I'm paraphrasing here, but that is the gist of it) She appears confident and gives me the impression she's on solid ground when making this assertion.The sarcasm oozes out of her and she looks like the cat that got the cream.

BTW, Sami, I can't access your image on my screen.

From KMs fictional account regarding the family outing to the beach 1st May :
“In the afternoon Gerry and I decided to take the children down to the beach. To be honest, I think they’d have been just as happy to go back to their clubs, but we wanted to do something slightly different with them, just the five of us. We borrowed a double buggy from Mark Warner to make the walk easier for Sean and Amelie. The weather wasn’t great: in fact, on the beach it started to rain. A bit of rain is not something that bothers a Scotsman like Gerry, but Sean and Amelie didn’t like the feel of the wet sand and insisted, in the way two-year-olds do, on being carried."

So they had solved the buggy problem certainly. They were freely available to borrow so why the big fuss about not having their own?

Because it was vital to give the impression they did not spend any time outside of the small area which comprised their apartment in Block G, the Millenium restaurant, the Tapas Bar and complex with swimming pool and tennis courts, and the nearest beach?  

Having no buggies and no access to a vehicle would make it seem unlikely that, for example, they explored the other (western) side of Luz passing the church on their way, or that  'just the five' of them visited Burgau where DNA extracted from hair found in an apartment showed a genetic relationship between Jane Tanner and Robert Murat.

dantezebu wrote:From KMs fictional account  regarding the family outing to the beach 1st May :
“In the afternoon Gerry and I decided to take the children down to the beach. To be honest, I think they’d have been just as happy to go back to their clubs, but we wanted to do something slightly different with them, just the five of us. We borrowed a double buggy from Mark Warner to make the walk easier for Sean and Amelie. The weather wasn’t great: in fact, on the beach it started to rain. A bit of rain is not something that bothers a Scotsman like Gerry, but Sean and Amelie didn’t like the feel of the wet sand and insisted, in the way two-year-olds do, on being carried."

So they had solved the buggy problem certainly. They were freely available to borrow so why the big fuss about not having their own?

Is it possible this outing to the beach is actually the day they moved Madeleine's body? And it didn't happen on the 1st, but on a different day? They borrowed a double buggy from MW. There would be the "cover story" for borrowing it. A trip to the beach. And... no mention of Madeleine. The twins complained, but what did Madeleine have to say about the wet sand? Nothing, apparently. It's as if she wasn't there....

Even if she died earlier I believe the body was moved to a temporary hiding place between 21:00 and 22:00 on 3rd May. If she was moved prior to this I don't think there would have been confusion about time lines and statements during this time unless the Smithman sighting is relevant and this is the reason the timelines are confused. In the first hours it was dark and everyone would be looking for a lost little girl not a body and you would search places very close to the Ocean club where a lost little girl may be hiding. It was dark so a search would be inefficient and surely abandoned until the morning. If she had been taken alive by an abductor she would already be miles away.

When the initial hour of mad searching was abandoned I think she was again moved in the early hours of the morning. Anyone wondering round could say they were still searching. If they had help from anyone apart from an extremely close friend or close family member I don't believe they knew they were involved with the concealment of a dead little girl. They may have thought they were helping look for a lost little girl and giving time and resources to help do this but I do not find it plausible to think they would be involved with a crime like hiding a body. However,  it is possible they gained access to another property during these early hours. This next move was again intended to be a temporary hiding place until she could be properly disposed of at a considerably later date. So the place would have to be somewhere a very thorough and professional search would not find, a secure location and not a public place, a vacant holiday apartment perhaps.

Sorry about this being morbid. I understand bodily fluids were found in the car not necessarily blood. The boot of the scenic was kept open and the carpets had been removed and washed. Something in the car had stank and maybe not as well preserved as some people think.  If she'd been in a chest freezer so soon after death I'm not sure the level of odour would have been at this level. I've wondered about the body being placed in a container perhaps with lots of salt, or dry sand. Maybe a sealed plastic barrel, maybe an open barrel,  maybe a bath. The Egyptians used sand to dry preserve bodies and part of the mummification process.

I believe the body was then moved in the Scenic to the barn where the towel was found. At one or both of these locations the body was then destroyed beyond any means of recognition using chemicals and fire. There is no no body to find.

canada12 wrote:

dantezebu wrote:From KMs fictional account  regarding the family outing to the beach 1st May :
“In the afternoon Gerry and I decided to take the children down to the beach. To be honest, I think they’d have been just as happy to go back to their clubs, but we wanted to do something slightly different with them, just the five of us. We borrowed a double buggy from Mark Warner to make the walk easier for Sean and Amelie. The weather wasn’t great: in fact, on the beach it started to rain. A bit of rain is not something that bothers a Scotsman like Gerry, but Sean and Amelie didn’t like the feel of the wet sand and insisted, in the way two-year-olds do, on being carried."

So they had solved the buggy problem certainly. They were freely available to borrow so why the big fuss about not having their own?

Is it possible this outing to the beach is actually the day they moved Madeleine's body? And it didn't happen on the 1st, but on a different day? They borrowed a double buggy from MW. There would be the "cover story" for borrowing it. A trip to the beach. And... no mention of Madeleine. The twins complained, but what did Madeleine have to say about the wet sand? Nothing, apparently. It's as if she wasn't there....

 I find this compelling, because while much leads me to believe in death evening of 2nd, there is SILENCE EVERYWHERE ABOUT 30TH APRIL, THE MONDAY, WHICH I WROTE ABOUT A LONG TIME AGO. SILENCE IN STATEMENTS AND SILENCE IN KATE'S BOOK. I HAVE BEEN TRYING FOR A LONG TIME TO FIT THIS FACT INTO MY BELIEF IN DEATH 2ND, BUT SO FAR CAN'T. YET A FACT IT IS, A DAY ABOUT WHICH NOTHING MUST BE SAID. THERE MUST BE A REASON FOR THIS  SILENCE REGARDING THE MONDAY]

DurhamGuy1967 wrote:Even if she died earlier I believe the body was moved to a temporary hiding place between 21:00 and 22:00 on 3rd May. If she was moved prior to this I don't think there would have been confusion about time lines and statements during this time unless the Smithman sighting is relevant and this is the reason the timelines are confused. In the first hours it was dark and everyone would be looking for a lost little girl not a body and you would search places very close to the Ocean club where a lost little girl may be hiding. It was dark so a search would be inefficient and surely abandoned until the morning. If she had been taken alive by an abductor she would already be miles away.

When the initial hour of mad searching was abandoned I think she was again moved in the early hours of the morning. Anyone wondering round could say they were still searching. If they had help from anyone apart from an extremely close friend or close family member I don't believe they knew they were involved with the concealment of a dead little girl. They may have thought they were helping look for a lost little girl and giving time and resources to help do this but I do not find it plausible to think they would be involved with a crime like hiding a body. However,  it is possible they gained access to another property during these early hours. This next move was again intended to be a temporary hiding place until she could be properly disposed of at a considerably later date. So the place would have to be somewhere a very thorough and professional search would not find, a secure location and not a public place, a vacant holiday apartment perhaps.

Sorry about this being morbid. I understand bodily fluids were found in the car not necessarily blood. The boot of the scenic was kept open and the carpets had been removed and washed. Something in the car had stank and maybe not as well preserved as some people think.  If she'd been in a chest freezer so soon after death I'm not sure the level of odour would have been at this level. I've wondered about the body being placed in a container perhaps with lots of salt, or dry sand. Maybe a sealed plastic barrel, maybe an open barrel,  maybe a bath. The Egyptians used sand to dry preserve bodies and part of the mummification process.

I believe the body was then moved in the Scenic to the barn where the towel was found. At one or both of these locations the body was then destroyed beyond any means of recognition using chemicals and fire. There is no no body to find.

Phonecall to Amanda's pathologist husband in the early morning: OK mate, did what you told us to, all things hunkey dorey now, back to bed!

Portia wrote:


Phonecall to Amanda's pathologist husband in the early morning: OK mate, did what you told us to, all things hunkey dorey now, back to bed!

Oh! and BTW, the chemicals arrived on time, I'll never have another bad word to say about Parcel Force. 

actually i saw an article will try to find it again but it gave me chills..was about a white bag being found near the airport there.In the bag was a pair of jeans adult sized..(perhaps a mans i think) also a childs pink top a pencil box and last but not least...a shower curtain. yep...and i think it did reference madeleines dna or something but it said the mccaans were sure it was related somehow in the abduction...just creeped me out but could be where fluids in car came from?? or someone ttrying to have scent dogs go towards airport to show maybe she was flown off....definately feels either planted or no one was supposed to find it

kimHager wrote:actually i saw an article will try to find it again but it gave me chills..was about a white bag being found near the airport there.In the bag was a pair of jeans adult sized..(perhaps a mans i think) also a childs pink top a pencil box and last but not least...a shower curtain. yep...and i think it did reference madeleines dna or something but it said the mccaans were sure it was related somehow in the abduction...just creeped me out but could be where fluids in car came from?? or someone ttrying to have scent dogs go towards airport to show maybe she was flown off....definately feels either planted or no one was supposed to find it

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] 4th November 2007

Traces found on fleece and stained jeans
 
By Dominic Herbert
 
A BAG of clothes containing DNA linked to Madeleine McCann has been found dumped by a road in Portugal. The white carrier bag was discovered in a layby two weeks ago near Faro airport, theNews of the World can reveal.
 
Maddie's parents Kate and Gerry McCann have learned the bag contained a blue fleece jacket and a pair of adult jeans with traces of DNA that contained "moderate" links to the missing four-year-old. There was also a SHOWER CURTAIN inside.
 
News of the find came as it emerged police hunting for the youngster have asked the Mafia to help. Crime godfathers in Morocco—where there have been several alleged sightings of Maddie—have been told cops will scale back drug busts if they do.
 
Meanwhile, the bag, found by a passer-by, was sent to a UK lab in Birmingham for forensic tests. A leaked report showed experts concluded the clothes contained bodily fluid and traces of hair that could have come from Maddie.
 
Skin
 
Other items recovered from the bag included a white flannel, a green elastic band, a light green child's T-shirt with a green flower on the front and a pink and blue pencil case with a pink heart motif. A source said: "The bag could be crucial.
 
"The DNA isn't an exact match to Maddie's, but it does link. It is the first clue found outside the apartment complex and could provide a trail."
 
The report—which was handed to detectives ten days ago—was obtained by the News of the World from Portuguese police sources. The jeans contained more than 60 different stains.
 
The report concluded: "The blue fleece and jeans were found to contain traces of congealed skin and hair. They were found to contain DNA characteristics that could be attributed to Madeleine McCann." No traces of Maddie's DNA were found on any of the other items.
 


I wonder if there was any other DNA on the clothing. And when it could have been dumped.