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Tapas 9: Statement Review

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by sandancer on 29.06.18 13:31

" Such a headache for the childcare " !!!!!!

Awe bless , what a shame that you and your mates felt looking after your children was a headache ! 

After all you all needed your precious time together , with your food and bottles of wine didn't you ? 

So it was less of a headache to pop backwards and forwards to " check " every 10/15 minutes or so between courses ( were the checks to see if they were still breathing , like the twins ?) 

What a sort of , you know , load of absolute , you know rubbish , sort of bull.... ! But you know that don't you ? 
We certainly do , no " sort of " about it !

There should be a name for headaches derived from reading Tapas 7 statements !

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by sar on 29.06.18 13:39

Let's face the music and dance!

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 29.06.18 15:51

@sandancer wrote:There should be a name for headaches derived from reading Tapas 7 statements !

McMigraine or better still McCluster ?

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 30.06.18 15:52


David Payne rogatory interview - 11th April 2008

So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry's apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we've looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we've got that I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors.

The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he'd, he'd played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the tennis coach from Mark Warner.

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 04.07.18 0:54




Witness Statement Najoua Chekaya - 9th May 2007


Occupation: Aerobic Instructor

She comes to the process as a witness.
She worked as an aerobics instructor next to the Millenium Restaurant swimming pool, close to the Tapas restaurant in P Da L.

As she does not speak Portuguese, she is assisted by the interpreter, Robert Murat.

Stated that she arrived in Portugal on 21st March 2007 for the first time, having been recruited from England by the Mark Warner company.

She was recruited to give aerobic classes, however she was also asked to carry out a Quiz (game) twice a week (Tuesdays and Sundays) in the Ocean Club Tapas restaurant.

She began her working day at about 08.15 near to the Millenium restaurant until 08.45, then at 09.30 she walked to Lagos from where she returned at about 11.30 and at about 11.45 went for lunch at the Tapas restaurant.

In the afternoon she began work at 15.20 next to the Millenium until 16.15 and then returned to the Tapas restaurant until 17.15 and then to the Millenium restaurant from 17.30 to 18.00. She finished at about 18.15 and returned to the Tapas Bar for dinner and at 21.00 did a kind of quiz with the guests who were having dinner in the restaurant.

She remembers that last Tuesday at the end of the quiz, she was invited to the table of nine guests who asked her to join them for a drink.

She was at their table for about fifteen to twenty minutes and it was there that she met Madeleine's father, who directly invited her to the table, however, she does not know whether Madeleines mother was also there.

When questioned, she said that they talked of banalities and she did not notice any aspect or behaviour that was out of the ordinary.
When questioned, she said that during the time that she was there Madeleines father did not leave the table, neither did any of the other guests, however, during this time one of the chairs was always empty, that of someone who had had dinner and left, not managing to indicate any identifying element about this person.

When questioned, she said she was at the table from about 21.30 to 21.50.

She does not remember anyone from outside the resort having made any questions about the functioning of the Ocean Club, or about any particular service.
When questioned, she said that she had only seen Madeleine once or twice and had merely said hello to her, no more than that.

When questioned, she said that she had never seen anyone suspicious in the vicinity of the Ocean Club.

She knows nothing more about the subject.

Reads, ratifies, signs.

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 04.07.18 1:05

Catriona Baker witness statement - 6th May 2007
Childcare Worker

Translated [interpreted] by Robert Murat

The informant is heard as a witness. Being of British nationality, she has no command of the Portuguese language in spoken or written form, because of which and because he is present, the person named: ROBERT MURAT residing at Casa Liliana, Ramalhete Road in Praia da Luz, 8600 Lagos, contactable via telephone no: 913...., offered to translate the interview.

In answer to our questions, she responds that she has been in Portugal since March 21st of this year and that this is her first visit to the country. Next, she says that she came to Portugal to work as a play leader, having obtained a contract of employment with the "Mark Warner" company. She states that her contract started on March 21st and ends on November 7th 2007, the date on which she will return to her own country. She points out that the company in question, in its turn, has a contract with the "OCEAN CLUB" tourist village to provide a child care service for parents who are clients of the village. She adds that in the tourist village, this type of child care takes place in four different places according to the ages of the children.

For children aged four months to one year it is the "Baby Club" which is close to the OCEAN CLUB's main reception. For children aged one to two years, it is the "Toddler" which is next to the "Tapas" restaurant. For children aged three to five years, it is the "Mini Club" which is also close to the Ocean Club's main reception. And finally, for children aged six to nine years and from ten to thirteen years, it is the "Junior Club" which is close to the "Millenium" restaurant.

Concerning the operating hours, there are four separate services.

* Mornings: 9am-12.30pm
* Afternoons: 2.30-5.30pm
* Dining Out Service 7.30pm-11.30pm

(children are watched in a room above the main Ocean Club 24hour reception; there is no extra charge for this service but parents must take and fetch their own children)

* "Baby sitting Service": 7.30pm-1am

(children are watched in their own apartments; there is an extra charge for this service)

The informant mentions that the work of the play leaders is the same in all areas specified above and that all colleagues have similar training. Rotations are scheduled, which means that they change places from week to week, changing the age group they have to work with.

She states that as part of her job she has to work out a weekly plan of activities to develop with the children who are entrusted to them, notably outside, like swimming tennis, the beach...

To our question, she specifies that she is responsible for a group of children, similar in age to the missing minor and that each supervisor has around seven children who stay with the same supervisor for the week.

When asked she states that she knows the McCann family since last Sunday, 29th April, 2007, when they enrolled their daughter in the “Minis” service. She replies that since that date and until Thursday, the 03rd of May, 2007, she was with Madeleine every day, but is unable to specify if she was present on the Sunday morning.

Questioned, she responds that since she has been working with the little girl, it has seemed to her that the parents were attentive to their daughter given that they asked what Madeleine had done in the creche and that they even accompanied Madeleine a few times in certain outside activities. Concerning the little girl, she states that she was an active and sociable child. Only on the first day was she more reticent with the group.

The informant reports that during the time that Madeleine was entrusted to her care, at no time did it seem to her that the little girl was sad or unhappy, and she never made any comment about being cross, sad or discontent about anything. She also reports that she was an obedient child who never wandered from the group and who never spoke to strangers.

When asked, the informant responds that it was always the parents who brought Madeleine and fetched her from the "Mini Club."

When questioned, she responds that in the course of her work, on the company's premises and outside (as described above) she has never noticed anyone in particular or suspicious watching the children with whom she was working. She did not notice anyone taking photos of the children and notably of Madeleine. She states that she never heard her colleagues refer to such things either.

The informant states that in the context of the disappearance of the minor, Madeleine, she saw nothing and was not aware of any reason which might explain the disappearance. Finally, the informant advises that in the few years that she has been working in this profession, for the same company, in various countries, she has never heard anyone talk of an event of this kind.

The informant states that since she has been in Portugal, in addition to the British people and her colleagues, she has got to know people outside the tourist company, some of Portuguese nationality but mostly British people whom she associates with when going out at night to enjoy herself. During her evenings out no one has asked her about her work, or about the children, or the McCann family in particular.

Nothing more was said ...

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 04.07.18 1:50

Catriona Baker rogatory interview - 8th April 2008 [snipped]

I offer this testimony in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I would like to clarify that I am not totally aware of the events as so much time has passed since the incident. [It should be noted here that Ms Baker's memory has significantly improved since her interviews by the PJ as a witness immediately following the alleged disappearance of Madeleine McCann] .....
~~~

If a family is staying for a period longer than one week, I would stay at the same club to continue taking care of their children. The child is delivered in the morning by one of the parents who also picks him or her up at lunch time. Some of the children return for the afternoon session which includes accompanying them to "high tea" at around 5H in the afternoon. .....
~~~

I got to know Gerry and Kate McCann on the Sunday morning, 29.04.2007, in the Minis Club. They brought the children and as it was their first day of holidays the normal procedure was that they were allocated a childcare worker. I had previously written the children's bracelets which included their name, allergies and relevant information. I stayed with Madeleine, 3 years old, in my group (Minis Club that week) together with E***, daughter of Jane Tanner. Either Kate or Gerry would accompany Madeleine every day in the morning and would return at lunch hour to take her back. I met Gerry more often as he would drop Madeleine off with greater frequency than Kate. [It should be noted here that according to the creche register, the mother/father ratio is roughly equal]. I also remember that Kate was present for High Tea accompanied by the twins between 5H and 5H30 in the afternoon.......
~~~

Most of the time in which I saw the family together, the children would be eating. The twins appeared tired at lunch, after a long day and also perhaps due to the heat, but I never became preoccupied by the children of by the comportment of the McCanns. ...
~~~

On Thursday the 3rd of May 2007, I remember Gerry having accompanied Madeleine to the club between 9h15 and 9h20 in the morning. I do not remember who came to pick her up for lunch but after she returned in the afternoon for a dive/swim. These activities were realized with the other children. On this day I remember that we sailed and I saw friends of the McCanns on the beach, David and Jane. Around 14h45 Madeleine returned to the Minis Club on top of the reception but I do not remember who accompanied her. This afternoon we went swimming. Kate went to get Madeleine from the Tapas Bar area and according to what I remember she was wearing sporting clothes and I assumed that she was practicing some form of athletics. It was around 15h25/18h00. I think that Gerry was playing tennis. ...
~~~

Mark Warner has a standard procedure, the signature on a page when a parent leaves or checks-in a child. There is a separate page for the morning and one for the afternoon. The page contains the name of the child, the hour of sign-in and the hour of pick-up for the afternoon. Only the parents have authority to take the children, except when there is some other agreement. When Gerry and Kate came to pick up Madeleine there were loving and the child would run into their arms.

Mark Warner maintained a register to all the activities in which the children participated. It functioned as a calendar, referring hour by hour, to what the children were doing. I believe that the Portuguese police collected the sign-in/out sheets and the registry of activities immediately on the day following the disappearance. I would say that Madeleine adored her family; she seemed happy as they did in the club....
~~~

This statement is truthful and in accord with my understanding.


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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verity on 04.07.18 9:13

Most of the time in which I saw the family together, the children would be eating. The twins appeared tired at lunch, after a long day and also perhaps due to the heat, but I never became preoccupied by the children of by the comportment of the McCanns. ...

But the weather reports, and witness statements, state that it was cold all week.
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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 04.07.18 11:58

Catriona Baker rogatory interview - 18th April 2008

On Thursday the 3rd of May 2007, I remember Gerry having accompanied Madeleine to the club between 9h15 and 9h20 in the morning. I do not remember who came to pick her up for lunch but after she returned in the afternoon for a dive/swim. These activities were realized with the other children. On this day I remember that we sailed and I saw friends of the McCanns on the beach, David and Jane. Around 14h45 Madeleine returned to the Minis Club on top of the reception but I do not remember who accompanied her. This afternoon we went swimming. Kate went to get Madeleine from the Tapas Bar area and according to what I remember she was wearing sporting clothes and I assumed that she was practicing some form of athletics. It was around 15h25/18h00. I think that Gerry was playing tennis.


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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by polyenne on 04.07.18 12:02

She seems very familiar with ".....friends of the McCanns, David & Jane"

Mind you, this was the rogatory when she'd allegedly been in Rothley…..how very cosy

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 04.07.18 12:40

Catriona Baker wrote:I got to know Gerry and Kate McCann on the Sunday morning, 29.04.2007, in the Minis Club. They brought the children and as it was their first day of holidays the normal procedure was that they were allocated a childcare worker. I had previously written the children's bracelets which included their name, allergies and relevant information. I stayed with Madeleine, 3 years old, in my group (Minis Club that week) together with E***, daughter of Jane Tanner. Either Kate or Gerry would accompany Madeleine every day in the morning and would return at lunch hour to take her back. I met Gerry more often as he would drop Madeleine off with greater frequency than Kate. I also remember that Kate was present for High Tea accompanied by the twins between 5H and 5H30 in the afternoon. 

(Rogatory interview 18th April 2008)

Sunday 29th April 2007

Morning session signed in by Kate McCann and signed out by Gerry McCann
Afternoon session signed in by Gerry McCann signed out by Kate McCann

Monday 30th April 2007


Morning session signed in by Gerry McCann and signed out by Gerry McCann
Afternoon session signed in by Kate McCann and signed out by Kate McCann

Tuesday 1st May 2007

Morning session signed in by Gerry McCann and signed out by Gerry McCann
Afternoon session signed in by Gerry McCann and signed out 'no entry'

Wednesday 2nd May 2007

Morning session signed in by Gerry McCann signed out by Catriona Baker
Afternoon session signed in by Kate McCann and signed out by Kate Healy

Thursday 3rd May 2007

Morning session signed in by Gerry McCann signed out by Kate McCann
Afternoon session signed in by Kate McCann signed out by Kate McCann
....................

Sign in/out ratio:   Kate McCann/Healy 9 - Gerry McCann 9

Sign in ratio:  Kate McCann 4 - Gerry McCann 6

Sign out ratio:  Kate McCann/Healy 5 - Gerry McCann 3

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 04.07.18 15:31

The informal interviews with the crèche workers are invariably overlooked but in my view probably the most important, memory being fresh..

Catriona Baker informal interview/witness statement - 4th May 2007  [snipped]

In our informal conversation with Catriona Trease Sisile B., also known as CAT, she stated:

1. That she arrived on March 21st 2007 and that she plans to return to the UK on November 7th 2007;

2. That she cared for Madeleine since Sunday April 29th 2007, daily until yesterday and that she always worked the same hours;

3. That yesterday Madeleine arrived at 9.10. It was her father, Gerry, who brought her;

4. That her mother, Kate, picked her up at 12.25;

5. That her mother, Kate, dropped her off at 14.50 and picked her up at 17.30;

6. That in the same room as Madeleine, there were 6 other children in the morning and 4 in the afternoon (including Madeleine).

7. That she did not see any strangers in the complex during that time or previous days.

8. That on the first day, Madeleine was shy. On the following days she was more calm and uninhibited. Yesterday she was joyful.

9. That she was never far from Madeleine, keeping her under visual supervision at all times when she was her responsibility, even asking her permission to go to the bathroom;

10. That, over the days, she noticed no change in the behaviour of the child's parents;

11. That she noticed no abnormal situation relating to this family;

12. That Madeleine had not told her about any person who had contacted [spoken to] her in recent days, nor [about] any possibly suspicious conversation.

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Bayonne on 04.07.18 16:14

Catriona Baker wrote:


I got to know Gerry and Kate McCann on the Sunday morning, 29.04.2007, in the Minis Club.

Not met. Got to know.  You would say "I met..." or "The first time I met..." 

Maybe Cat Baker was already practising her American twang or maybe she had met them somewhere before.

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 08.07.18 0:05

Reference to the groupie mentality..

David Payne's rogatory interview 11th April 2008

1485 "Okay. Tell me about your social circle.'

Reply "Okay, err you know, when we got married, we actually got married in Italy and the majority of friends of ours unfortunately, or fortunately, are in the medical profession, I think it's the way it works with the hours and err yeah the nature of the job and exams etcetera, like you tend to socialise quite a lot with medical people. Err obviously the, you know the group who went to Portugal, Russell, err who I knew through, he was in my year at medical school, err subsequently obviously I knew Jane through Russell. Err in terms of Kate and Gerry, we knew, Fiona had worked with Kate and that's how I got to know Kate and Gerry, err you know we have probably a, just a, not a tight band of friends but you know its generally the same people, so the people who went, you know a lot of people came our wedding in Italy, who we subsequently had perhaps been on holiday with but we still stay in touch with. Err and if we socialise with anyone then it tends to be the same, same groups of, same group of people, the majority of them medical, obviously apart from Jane and Rachael of course.'
...................

My dentist of yore used to go to Portugal about three or four times a year with colleagues for a golfing holiday.  Like attracts like - it's a matter of fact.

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The Carpenters

Post by Verdi on 11.07.18 12:02

Remembering Witness Stephen Carpenter and his wife were called upon to be included in the rogatory interview process, at the request of the McCanns, Stephen Carpenter's interview is a minefield of perplexing goodies.  Here's a starter..

DCF: Yes. When I went to the Tapas Bar and was seen there, talking on the Thurday 3rd May we analysed this in more detail because it was obviously more relevant. "The second time I entered the Tapas Bar was on Thursday 3rd May" which ended up being the day that Madeleine disappeared.


SC: Ah ha.


DCF: We arrived at about seven because we had the children with us and I saw a man sitting at the table next to us with three children.


SC: Yes


DCF: He was going to take a plane the next day to Switzerland, given that the children's mother lived there, I had never seen him before that night, but he ended up joining us for a coffee, he was a MW tourist. Another couple whose names I do not remember, sat at the table opposite us. A man was sitting on the esplanade having a drink whilst waiting for a take away, I spoke to them briefly, I hadn't realised that the Tapas bar had a take away service. At that time i didn't know their names. At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of tennis amongst other things, I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children. We did not talk about the system for checking the children or the fact that they had left them alone in the apartment, it was only later upon hearing the news that I realised that they had left the children alone in the apartment and that they were regularly checking to see if they were all right. Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry's apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine's disappearance". OK, before going on the next part, do you remember at what time you left'


SC: Humm... vaguely, I think it was what was put in the statement, the same, the leaving the restaurant, the way back to the apartment, looking to my left to check that the way was clear and I didn't see anything....My wife vaguely remembers hearing "Madeleine, Madeleine" and that was all until the following morning when I saw the television.


DCF: Yes, and where you state that it was on GMTV.


SC:: Yes..
....................

Now, it's highly unlikely the McCanns would have called-upon the Carpenters to drop them in the proverbial, isn't it rather strange that he comments on his wife allegedly hearing someone calling Madeleine Madeleine between quarter and half past nine?  Were the Carpenters cajoled into assisting the McCann investigation or were they willing participants?

The plot thickens.

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Matt Oldfield's Alleged Last Check

Post by enquiring_mind on 25.07.18 17:54

I can't understand Matt's 'non-checking' on Madeleine when he did his round of checks.

In his various statements Matt reports on seeing the twins in their cots and was even able to see them breathing.
I think that Matt's check carried out on the twins is a fairly normal check on a sleeping baby / toddler.  For example:
(a) can I actually see them?
(b) are they laying in a normal /safe /typical and comfortable position?
(c) is their breathing laboured? - observe their breathing momentarily.
(d) do they seem peaceful?
(e) does anything appear abnormal?
..and so on - the normal things that anyone would naturally look for in anyone asleep without even thinking about it.  Especially a person that can be classed as vulnerable - a baby, toddler, a particularly ill person etc.

So how is it that Matt paid particular (or normal) attention to the twins but when it came to Madeleine his observation was: "Erm, and there's another bed along here, which is where Madeleine was supposed to be, erm, and you could just maybe catch the, it was probably set back a little bit, so you could just sort of catch about sort of six or eight inches of the, so you could see the outside corner, the corner deepest into the room"
ref: http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Matt's slack checking on Madeleine is particularly puzzling for this reason - he was checking on a child that he was obviously fond of.  This is evident from Matt's Rogatory statement:

4078 'And how would you describe Madeleine''

Reply 'Erm, yeah, sweet, lovely, you know, sort of very sort of outgoing and, erm, you know, enthusiastic, bounds of energy, sort of memories of her as they're running round the bits when we sort of chased her, it was always 'I want more. I want more. Be a monster. Be a monster' and running round, yeah'.

00.49.15 4078 'Sad memories for you all, or mixed memories probably, I should imagine, bitter sweet''

Reply 'Yeah, erm'.

ref: http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

It just doesn't make sense.  You're responsible for the checking of a young child; a child that you've shared playtime with; a child that you say is sweet and lovely; you've seen her laughing when she's being chased; a child that approaches the group for more play.  How could someone that has spent fun times with her, and describes her personality so sweetly, not want to make sure she was safe and sleeping soundly?  Instead to be satisfied with just seeing the corner of her bed?  -  the bed where "..Madeleine was supposed to be, erm,..".

The questions asked by the police are based on the technical issues: the position of the bed, the illumination of the room, angles of the door, did you pop your head in / or go into the room, curtain positions, shutters etc. etc.
Surely the questions should be: "why didn't you make sure you could see Madeleine?", "why were you so careful to make detailed observations on the twins only?"..

Likewise with Matt's interview in Portugal:
"Asked, he clarifies to not have seen MBM lying on the bed in the bedroom because from where he was during the check he had no sight of that bed."
ref: http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

"..from where he was during the check he had no sight of that bed"???? Didn't it occur to Matt to move so he could see if Madeleine was safely in bed - as was the entire purpose of the visit to the children's' bedroom.

It just doesn't seem natural, or normal behaviour.


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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 25.07.18 21:53

@enquiring_mind wrote:I can't understand Matt's 'non-checking' on Madeleine when he did his round of checks.
Simple answer to that - Matt Oldfield didn't do any checks, it's fabrication.

Apart from anything else, you would have to believe that the McCanns left the patio door unlocked on Thursday 3rd May to facilitate the alleged checking system.  Hogwash - nobody but nobody would leave a door unlocked when leaving three very young children alone in a strange place.

They only left the door unlocked on the night of Thursday 3rd May, then they left it unlocked every night.  The friends took it in turns to check on the others children, then they only checked their own children.  Matt Oldfield only checked on the McCanns children on the night of Thursday 3rd May but then he thinks maybe he did on another night.

thumbdown !!!

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by sharonl on 25.07.18 21:55

@enquiring_mind wrote:I can't understand Matt's 'non-checking' on Madeleine when he did his round of checks.

In his various statements Matt reports on seeing the twins in their cots and was even able to see them breathing.
I think that Matt's check carried out on the twins is a fairly normal check on a sleeping baby / toddler.  For example:
(a) can I actually see them?
(b) are they laying in a normal /safe /typical and comfortable position?
(c) is their breathing laboured? - observe their breathing momentarily.
(d) do they seem peaceful?
(e) does anything appear abnormal?
..and so on - the normal things that anyone would naturally look for in anyone asleep without even thinking about it.  Especially a person that can be classed as vulnerable - a baby, toddler, a particularly ill person etc.

So how is it that Matt paid particular (or normal) attention to the twins but when it came to Madeleine his observation was: "Erm, and there's another bed along here, which is where Madeleine was supposed to be, erm, and you could just maybe catch the, it was probably set back a little bit, so you could just sort of catch about sort of six or eight inches of the, so you could see the outside corner, the corner deepest into the room"
ref: http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Matt's slack checking on Madeleine is particularly puzzling for this reason - he was checking on a child that he was obviously fond of.  This is evident from Matt's Rogatory statement:

4078 'And how would you describe Madeleine''

Reply 'Erm, yeah, sweet, lovely, you know, sort of very sort of outgoing and, erm, you know, enthusiastic, bounds of energy, sort of memories of her as they're running round the bits when we sort of chased her, it was always 'I want more. I want more. Be a monster. Be a monster' and running round, yeah'.

00.49.15 4078 'Sad memories for you all, or mixed memories probably, I should imagine, bitter sweet''

Reply 'Yeah, erm'.

ref: http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

It just doesn't make sense.  You're responsible for the checking of a young child; a child that you've shared playtime with; a child that you say is sweet and lovely; you've seen her laughing when she's being chased; a child that approaches the group for more play.  How could someone that has spent fun times with her, and describes her personality so sweetly, not want to make sure she was safe and sleeping soundly?  Instead to be satisfied with just seeing the corner of her bed?  -  the bed where "..Madeleine was supposed to be, erm,..".

The questions asked by the police are based on the technical issues: the position of the bed, the illumination of the room, angles of the door, did you pop your head in / or go into the room, curtain positions, shutters etc. etc.
Surely the questions should be: "why didn't you make sure you could see Madeleine?", "why were you so careful to make detailed observations on the twins only?"..

Likewise with Matt's interview in Portugal:
"Asked, he clarifies to not have seen MBM lying on the bed in the bedroom because from where he was during the check he had no sight of that bed."
ref: http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

"..from where he was during the check he had no sight of that bed"???? Didn't it occur to Matt to move so he could see if Madeleine was safely in bed - as was the entire purpose of the visit to the children's' bedroom.

It just doesn't seem natural, or normal behaviour.


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Even more so since his words to Kate, just before the check were allegedly "I will check on Madeleine for you"

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by sandancer on 25.07.18 22:35

Matt couldn't admit to seeing Madeleine because they all knew about Jane Tanners sighting of " Eggman , the " abductor " . 

If he said he'd seen Madeleine in her bed that would rule out Eggman and make Matt the last person to see her before Kate discovered her missing . 

Covering his own back and ensuring that Eggman/Tannerman was still the main contender in the " abduction " fairytale !

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 26.07.18 0:02

@sandancer wrote:Matt couldn't admit to seeing Madeleine because they all knew about Jane Tanners sighting of " Eggman , the " abductor " . 

If he said he'd seen Madeleine in her bed that would rule out Eggman and make Matt the last person to see her before Kate discovered her missing . 

Covering his own back and ensuring that Eggman/Tannerman was still the main contender in the " abduction " fairytale !
Eggsactly!

It's all a theorytale from beginning to end.  What good is listening at the keyhole - absence or abduction or death is silent!  Then on just one occasion Oldfield takes it into to his head to enter through an unlocked patio door to poke his head around the children's bedroom door - an apartment he claims 'maybe' never to have entered before, yet he manages to grope his way around in the dark - sorry moonlight, register the general layout and the McCanns reading material but not to check on the very child that was allegedly abducted.

Don't make me laugh.

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by enquiring_mind on 26.07.18 10:34

@Verdi wrote:
@enquiring_mind wrote:I can't understand Matt's 'non-checking' on Madeleine when he did his round of checks.
Simple answer to that - Matt Oldfield didn't do any checks, it's fabrication.
Hi Verdi,

That is the only conclusion that makes sense after reading Matt's statements.

The point of my post was to show that Matt's own account of the check he did on that night shows behaviour that is unnatural.
I think that all the witnesses testimonies should be examined under the same lens - are the behaviours natural?
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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 26.07.18 12:00

@enquiring_mind wrote:I think that all the witnesses testimonies should be examined under the same lens - are the behaviours natural?
Good luck with that thumbsup .

A simple answer again would be - no, the behaviours are not natural. 

I can't see what can be achieved by embarking on such an arduous task but I'm sure others will disagree with my simplistic view.  The contradictions and behaviours come to light as and when a specific topic is under discussion - where the issue has relevance.

This thread was initiated with a satirical eye but members are free to use it in any way they think useful.

grouphug

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by polyenne on 26.07.18 15:08

Notwithstanding that the MO check is a fabrication. From my memory of the layout, the door knob would be on the left side of the door with the door swinging open "clockwise" (that's why Gerry never saw the abductor lurking behind the partially open door !!).

Thus, in order to see the twins in their cots in the centre of the room, Madeleine's bed (whichever of the single beds it was) would have been completely visible.

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Re: Tapas 9: Statement Review

Post by Verdi on 07.08.18 12:31

David Payne Rogatory Interview - 11th April 2008

1485 "Okay. I'd like you to describe Madeleine to me. What sort of a child she is and you know how you see her.'

Reply "Mm, err Madeleine's err a very striking err beautiful child, I'd almost if I want a better phrase call her doll-like, you know she was very, you know I think, you know very unique looking child err, she'd got very pretty, you know blonde hair err in a bob, she was quite a petite err child and you know she was very bubbly, very err you know she was a very good child to, to interact with. She was very bright, you could have a lot of fun with Madeleine err and you know she, she was, you know Kate and Gerry's, you know pride and joy. They'd had a lot of trouble conceiving, you know with IVF and everything and you know Madeleine was their miracle. She was obviously very unique with the fact that she'd got the, you know the iris defect err but you know she was certainly a happy go lucky child you know she was, she would interact with the other children very well, as I said on the other, earlier recording, you know she played very happily with Lily and you know indeed the other children. She was, you know, very, she is a very beautiful child and good fun.'

1485 "Mm.'

00:15:30 Reply "You know I, you know a fact I've come across already you know she was a, she's a very bright child you know, she wouldn't be the kind of mischievous child who you know and just try and get out of the flat and you know get up to mischief and that, you know, there's fun in all children but she certainly wasn't that kind of child. She was very bright.'

1485 "Moving on then to the time that you, when you say after the alarm was raised you went into the MCCANN'S apartment. Can you describe the layout of the apartment''

Reply "If you're going in through the patio doors you walk directly into the, err the living, you know, lounge space. Then if you're going, walking through the apartment towards the front door you have the kitchen on the, err right, which was a small kitchen, which was boxed off from the rest of err open plan living space. If you were walking from the patio doors into the apartment and you were walking towards the front door and turn left you would go towards the bedroom areas. Directly in front of you, you had the bathroom err as you were looking at the bathroom the door to the left would be the, the room where Kate and Gerry stayed and the door to the right was err where the children were sleeping. Err you know there was the double bed in the err Kate and Gerry's room and as you went into err Sean and Amelie's room there was a bed up against the far wall where there was the, you know, was the window. There was another bed parallel to that but across the other side of the room, err along the wall where the door is where you walked into the apartment. In between the two parallel beds was the, err two cots also parallel with the space err between the two of them, and obviously the twins were sleeping in the err cots and then err Madeleine was on the bed which was nearest the door that you walked in to get in there.'

1485 "Okay. When you went in after the alarm was raised what was the bedroom like at that point''

00:18:01 Reply "Err the, you know again I, it, it wasn't, it wasn't dark, it wasn't really, really dark but it you know my overall impression was the room was fairly dark. The, the children as I said before were still err fast asleep, which again you know we've discussed this you know over the months that Kate and Gerry you know, as all children wake up you know in the night and err you know with all the pandemonium and the shouting, breaking, that they were still you know, fast asleep, and err you know I wouldn't describe that I could see anything in the room like there'd been, you know, clothes thrown around the room or anything and disturbed and you know I, I noticed that the bed was empty that Madeleine was sleeping in. Other people have described that the bed was very neat and tidy but that isn't what, you know, I could confirm.'

1485 "What was the bed like that you can confirm''

Reply "I, I, you know, I, my note, visual note was she's not there, the twins are there, you know I just ran out and you know was wanting to, you know, run around like a headless chicken and try and do something you know to be helpful.'

00:19:23 1485 "How long do you think you were in that bedroom for''

Reply "Err as I say when I was there I wasn't actually, hadn't walked in to the whole part of the bedroom, if anything I'd just stepped in to the room just from the, err you know the doorway perhaps just beyond the doorway, but I hadn't you know gone right in to say like where the twins were or in between where the beds were. Err again it's, it's difficult, it's difficult to say because I could have well pop back more than once just, you know, you know with Gerry, you know moving, you know we were moving around so frequently, err I wasn't certainly there for any length of time, whether it'd be a minute, you know that would be something, or that I'd ever stayed at the maximum because there was just so much else.'

1485 "Yeah.'

Reply "You know going on with people running around etcetera.'

1485 "Throughout the holiday from the twenty eighth till the fifth, or till the third''

Reply "Mm.'

1485 "How many times do you think you actually went into the MCCANN'S apartment''

00:20:33 Reply "Err probably more than other people as I said there was the, there was one, there was the incident with the cot where were trying to, you know, had some difficulty with one of the cots that had been provided to err you know so and they'd got the spare cot that you know so I had to go down and pick that up and then I, I popped in there you know some other times as well, I say I probably, in total during the week, I'd have said five, half a dozen times I'd been to that apartment.'

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