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Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by polyenne on 09.03.18 21:41

A phrase from a TV Show that’s all......applcable, in part, to Kate perhaps ?

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Verdi on 09.03.18 21:55

@Mark Willis wrote:
Now here's a funny thing: Hold on to that Gemma Village Magazine piece; in the words of Max Miller, "There'll never be another"
coffee

Of course there won't be, that was apparent from the start.

It's rather like writing a book, you start with the prologue then stuff it with sage and onion and finish with the epilogue - ask Frankie Howard, he knows winkwink .

Been this way too many times before to be hoodwinked into thinking something positive is about to happen.

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Mark Willis on 10.03.18 7:24

@Verdi wrote:
@Mark Willis wrote:
Now here's a funny thing: Hold on to that Gemma Village Magazine piece; in the words of Max Miller, "There'll never be another"
coffee

Of course there won't be, that was apparent from the start.

It's rather like writing a book, you start with the prologue then stuff it with sage and onion and finish with the epilogue - ask Frankie Howard, he knows winkwink .

Been this way too many times before to be hoodwinked into thinking something positive is about to happen.
Mr Lurcio! Greetings good citizens. And now the prologue...
That's the point though, that if I were the producer of "Groundhog Day" I'd be suing half the commentators on line regards the fact that each and every dawn has happened since 3 5 7. If false dawns were currency we'd all be rich.
Now one may say that you and me are being pessimistic, whereas I'd say realistic. Little point in misplaced optimism or hope once you realise this whole thing is a done deal. It's on rails. Like the arrow of time it's a one-way ticket. 
There isn't a No.99 bus coming for the Mcs to be thrown under. Neither will" crack". If all the circumstantial evidence out there added to Eddie and Keela's hasn't seen them counting bricks in the cell wall then nothing short of a confession will, and I am not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Verdi on 10.03.18 13:11

@Mark Willis wrote:Now one may say that you and me are being pessimistic, whereas I'd say realistic. Little point in misplaced optimism or hope once you realise this whole thing is a done deal. It's on rails. Like the arrow of time it's a one-way ticket.
Hang on a minute, just got to fill my glass - it's half empty smilie .  Panic not, it's only water.

A one way ticket is a good analogy of this ongoing farce.  There cometh a time [circa. May 2007], when you realise that things are not as they should be.  Andy Redwood was right when he publicly stated..

"Primarily what we sought to do from the beginning is to try and draw everything back to – to zero, if you like, try and sort of take everything back to the beginning – and then re-analyse and re-assess everything – accepting nothing."

Problem is of course, he said it but he didn't do it bignono .

If you're going to journalistically investigate the mystery of Madeleine McCann's alleged disappearance, you need to have a thorough knowledge of the case, access to the many players and oodles of time on your hands.  All sadly lacking in Ms O'Doherty's world.

In fairness to all and sundry, the major stumbling block has always been Portugal v. UK.  The gap has been frequently used to the McCanns advantage but at the flip of the coin, it has been a hindrance to any genuine truth seekers.  With cultural differences taken into consideration, it's very difficult keep the two domains entirely separate.  Folk still believe Operation Grange have some sort of super powers that can override international jurisdiction - not so, at least not in reality.  Taking the case at face value, the disappearance of a British three year old child holidaying in Portugal, the UK has no authority to investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the UK cannot bring about a prosecution - Portugal retains primacy until god, or some other ultimate power, declares otherwise.  Contact and a good relationship with Portugal is an essential ingredient for solving this case

I'll wager members of CMoMM and close associates together with guest readers, know more about this case than any investigative journalist or sofa foghorn or wannabe public commentator.

So we keep digging - it's what we do best.

Madeleine who?  At least we don't forget.

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by BlueBag on 10.03.18 13:33

@Verdi wrote:I'll wager members of CMoMM and close associates together with guest readers, know more about this case than any investigative journalist or sofa foghorn or wannabe public commentator.
For sure!

There are at least a dozen on this web site that know the minutest detail of all the publicly know facts.

Gemma has only to ask.

I still think she's one of the good guys based on previous stuff she did. She might be a little under-educated in this case.
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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Mark Willis on 10.03.18 15:42

Good posts Mr Verdi and Mr Bluebag.
Whereas the Mcs, for some counter-intuitive reason, do not want us to forget them, we will never (allow them to) forget Madeleine, whose disappearance was due to them.
The Mcs are a protected species, apparently a matter of national security, above our clearance level. 
Although their unprecedented protection ensures they will not be prosecuted, it does not mean that further investigation (on our part) will not eventually reveal as near as possible as to what actually occurred. 
We dig deep enough we may as yet uncover who it is that is really being protected. Then we may get a handle on the "why".
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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Verdi on 10.03.18 16:11

Gemma O'Doherty can/will only be buried along with Colin Sutton, Mark Williams-Thomas and the Untold Story, better she never got involved in the first place.

This case has attracted too much attention to be trivialised by half-hearted attemps at exposure - the latter two - and a bit, being largely self serving. It's a nuisance distraction and only gives vent to disharmony and diversion.

On with the motley!

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Mark Willis on 10.03.18 17:45

@Verdi wrote:Gemma O'Doherty can/will only be buried along with Colin Sutton, Mark Williams-Thomas and the Untold Story, better she never got involved in the first place.  

This case has attracted too much attention to be trivialised by half-hearted attemps at exposure - the latter two - and a bit, being largely self serving.  It's a nuisance distraction and only gives vent to disharmony and diversion.

On with the motley!
Which serves to prove that they don't know anything like as much as we do. Because history has a tendency to repeat itself you might expect those professionally appointed might bone up on why every attempt to expose the Mcs in any meaningful way will fall down at the first hurdle.
Next.
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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.09.18 21:28

@Verdi wrote:Gemma O'Doherty can/will only be buried along with Colin Sutton, Mark Williams-Thomas and the Untold Story, better she never got involved in the first place.  

This case has attracted too much attention to be trivialised by half-hearted attemps at exposure - the latter two - and a bit, being largely self serving.  It's a nuisance distraction and only gives vent to disharmony and diversion.

On with the motley!
Support for your view on Gemma O'Doherty, @ Verdi, is now emerging on Twitter (see below). 

There was great excitement when Gemma O'Doherty wrote a piece about Madeleine McCann and claimed that Martin Smith stood by his apparently absurd claim first made on 20 September 2007 (nearly 5 months after Madeleine disappeared) that he 'recognised' (well, 60% to 80%) Gerry McCann as the person he says he saw at about 10pm on Thursday 3 May.

I say 'absurd' for four reasons:

(1) He admits he only saw part of the man, in the dark, with weak street lighting, for 2 or 3 seconds at the most, and admitted to police 'I'd never be able to recognise him if I saw him again'   

(2) Yet he claimed to 'recognise' Gerry McCann by the way he was carrying his son Sean off the plane on 9 September 2007

(3) He then apparently drew up an efit of the man in September 2008, 16 months after the only time he saw him (the date comes from a FOI Act request by the way)

(4) He then proceeded to help the McCann Team in the following ways:

A  Talking to Metodo 3/Brian Kennedy
B  Agreeing to do an efit for Henri Exton
C  (Mrs Smith told the Irish press that he and her supported the McCanns) 
D  His sighting being included in the May 2009 Mockumentary
E  His sighting being included on the McCanns' website from May 2009
F  He AMENDED his description of the age of the man for the SECOND time down to '34-35'
G  He consented to his description being compared to Tannerman in 7 pages of Kate McCann's book 'madeleine'
H He co-operated with the BBC & Operation Grange in the making of the farcical BBC Crimewatch Special of 14 October 2013 and met DCI Andy Redwood or another twice.

Anyways, here are the tweets:

------------ 

  
Newsworthy_ie‏ @newsworthy_ie 5h5 hours ago

Copy link to TweetEmbed TweetMute @newsworthy_ieUnmute @newsworthy_ieBlock @newsworthy_ieUnblock @newsworthy_ieReport Tweet  Add to other MomentAdd to new MomentCllr Jimmy Guerin addresses Fingal County Council on the allegations made against him and his late sister, Veronica Guerin by Gemma O'Doherty. "..the most hurtful and offensive and inconsiderate comment was that she said my family don't want to know the truth"

 
Josie Craig 
Replying to @newsworthy_ie

Well said @jguerin11 An utter disgrace that you've had to explain yourself because of Gemma O'Doherty false accusations. If people can't see her for what she is yet, and can't see the very similar patterns of her workings, then you're just as bad as her. More fool you all.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I will try to find out more, but in the meantime I join with @ Verdi and @ MarkWillis in suggesting that Gemma O'Doherty's word cannot be relied on

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Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Ladyinred on 10.09.18 21:43

I agree., TB.
She did promise a follow-up, on the Donegal connection, to her original piece which has still not appeared seven months later.
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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Verdi on 11.09.18 0:16


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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Phoebe on 11.09.18 2:04

@ Tony Bennett. 

Tony the following claims are snipped from your article above -


"(4) He then proceeded to help the McCann Team in the following ways:


C  (Mrs Smith told the Irish press that he and her supported the McCanns) 
D  His sighting being included in the May 2009 Mockumentary
E  His sighting being included on the McCanns' website from May 2009
F  He AMENDED his description of the age of the man for the SECOND time down to '34-35'
G  He consented to his description being compared to Tannerman in 7 pages of Kate McCann's book 'madeleine'
H He co-operated with the BBC & Operation Grange in the making of the farcical BBC Crimewatch Special of 14 October 2013 and met DCI Andy Redwood or another twice."



For the life of me I cannot imagine how you can make these claims! 

There is absolutely no proof that Mr. Smith "helped" the McCanns in ANY way. In fact, the actual evidence is directly to the contrary.

Firstly, Martin Smith categorically stated to the Gardai (who relayed this information to the P.J.) that he had NEVER spoken to the press. The notion of Mrs Smith expressing support or sympathy for the McCanns and then supporting her husband's claim that it was actually Gerry they saw that night carrying a child is completely ridiculous, almost as ridiculous as suggesting that people involved in aiding the McCanns in their cover-up would directly point the finger of blame at them. Paper does not refuse ink and journalists can and do write what they like! What we DO know for a fact is that Mr Smith threatened legal action against no less than six newspapers for misquoting him!
You state that Mr Smith CONSENTED to his sighting being used in various programs etc. Where is the proof of this consent! All we do know is that Martin Smith publicly states that he contacted the BBC to protest about their false claim that he had changed his mind on the man being Gerry. He has gone on public record to state that he has never changed his mind about this. In doing so he embarrassed the BBC into acknowledging that this was false!
You claim that he altered Smithman's age in a later statement, yet the P.J.files (attached to the statement of Sgt. Liam Hogan- Jan 30th 2008) shows Martin Smith said the following - 

"I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10' in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer."  

It would be ludicrous for Martin Smith to claim (and to persist in this claim) that he saw Gerry that night while simultaneously putting the aforementioned man's age at 34- 35 yrs!

Yes, it is frustrating that Gemma O'Doherty has not yet written another piece about Madeleine's disappearance. However, she has a track record of tackling matters in her own way and in her own time. Nor, alas, is she concentrating on the Madeleine case exclusively. There are other matters which occupy her time.
However, she has achieved one pivotal thing with that single article - she has clearly shown that Martin Smith has never deviated from his claim that he believes he saw Gerry, carrying a child very like his "abducted" daughter, at the actual time her disappearance was being made public. For many years people have speculated that Martin Smith withdrew his claim, was working with the McCanns etc. Her article blows that claim clean out of the water and if she achieves nothing else that one piece of confirmation re. the Smiths' position on the matter is invaluable IMO!

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Verdi on 11.09.18 16:17

@Tony Bennett wrote:I will try to find out more, but in the meantime I join with @ Verdi and @ MarkWillis in suggesting that Gemma O'Doherty's word cannot be relied on

I don't doubt there was a time when Mark Williams-Thomas was hailed as the second coming, his words of wisdom taken as gospel. There appears to be any number of imposters out there capitalizing on their position or past position.

As they say, too many cooks spoil the broth - or in this case, all that glitters is not gold. Part-timers with scant knowledge of the case cause more problems than they're worth, they send out the wrong messages which can be very damaging to the cause - in this case justice for little Madeleine McCann. The name Madeleilne is not a campaign slogan, or at least it shouldn't be; the parents tried that and LOQK where that took them! Madeleine deserves better, she's not a commoditity!

I wish Ms O'Doherty well with her campaign for presidency.


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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Phoebe on 11.09.18 18:18

A little information for what it's worth.

 The late Veronica Guerin wrote for the Irish Independent group of newspapers, part of the media machine (INM) of Denis O'Brien. After her death her brother Jimmy was then given a role as a columnist with the same paper. This was the very same newspaper which Gemma O'Doherty wrote for, before being sacked for refusing to toe the editorial line. She subsequently successfully sued her former employer for unfair dismissal and received a published apology from them over the affair.
 Since then O'Doherty has very publicly exposed alleged shady behaviour by Denis O'Brien, both in terms of his media empire and other business interests. In the past few weeks the Irish High Court has granted an application by the Irish State's corporate watchdog to appoint inspectors to investigate the conduct of the affairs of the media group INM.
 While I have no doubt that Gemma O' Doherty may have her faults, I turn a very jaundiced eye on any criticism of her which emanates from any INM (O'Brien) source. I expect to see much more of it now that she has thrown her hat into the presidential race ring!

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Verdi on 11.09.18 22:03

If Martin Smith was so 60/80% sure the stranger he and his family witnessed on the night of Thursday 3rd May 2007 was Gerry McCann (because of the way he was carrying his son down the aircraft stairs - the customary way to carry a child), why then didn't the e-fit Martin Smith helped to prepare for the Crimewatch October 2013 production, bear some resemblance to Gerry McCann?



OK, folk have tried in the past to find an image of Gerry McCann that could vaguely resemble one of the e-fit images (said to be of the same man) but realistically you can manipulate any one image any way you like - at the end of the day it still looks nothing like the e-fit produced with the help of Martin Smith who apparently remains adamant that the mystery man witnessed was 60/80% Gerry McCann.

Why/what is this - an unhealthy distraction?

I don't wish to turn this into yet another Smithman thread but the subject is about Ms Gemma O'Doherty's brief coverage of Martin Smith's unwavering identification of Gerry McCann.


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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.09.18 22:42

I have read the posts of @Phoebe and @Verdi and duly reply to them.

Gemma O'Doherty's report on the Madeleine McCann case was strange, indeed bizarre.

There was one 'nugget' in her report which was the peg on which the whole story hung - namely that Martin Smith had claimed to her that he was still 'sticking' to his belief that the man he said he saw on 3 May 2007 was Gerry McCann, presumably carrying Madeleine.

Apart from the obvious credibility problems with this belief (he only saw the man for a second or two in the dark, said he would never recognise him if he saw him again, and claimed to 'recognise' Gerry McCann merely by 'the way he was carrying his child'), how on earth are we to account for Martin Smith remaining silent for 10 years until Gemma O'Doherty comes a-knocking at his door.

Let's consider that Martin Smith may really believe he is up to 80% sure that he really saw Gerry McCann at 10pm on 3 May 2007 in Praia da Luz and ask ourselves:

How come we have zero evidence that not one of the other NINE members of his party that night agree with his claim?

How come he agrees to work for Brian Kennedy, Metodo 3, Kevin Halligen & Henri Exton, who are employed by the McCanns

How come he agrees (if he does) to draw up efits for Henri Exton who works for the McCanns?

How come he says nothing when an hour-long Channel 4 documentary in May 2009 uses his sighting twice in support of the McCanns' and the programme's theory that Tannerman and Smithman are one and the same abductor?

How come he says nothing when the McCanns, also in May 2009, use his sighting as one of five possible abductors described on their website?

How come he says nothing when he notices that the age of the man he says he saw is changed a second time on the McCanns' website so as now to read '34-35'? (or did he in fact consent to this second change?

How come that on three occasions he gave three different ages for the man?  

How come that when Kate McCann wrote her book 'madeleine' in 2011 he raised no protest when once again his sighting was used by the McCanns to suggest that Tannerman and his sighting were one and the same abductor?

Why did he not choose that moment to say: "Hang on Kate McCann, my evidence is that Gerry McCann was carrying Madeleine down towards the beach on 3 May 2007!"

How come that he co-operated with Operation Grange by twice having meetings with DCI Andy Redwood or one of his team, one in 2012, one in 2013? 

Did he not know that the Crimewatch programme would feature his sighting as 'the new chief suspect for the abduction'?

Even if he didn't know, why did he not positively yell to the media after the programme: "Look, I say that Gerry McCann was the man I saw".

And then he whispers to Gemma O'Doherty: "I've never changed my mind, you know".

Give me a break, Phoebe


ETA: More about Gemma O'Doherty below

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Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.09.18 22:50

POTTED NOTES ABOUT GEMMA O'DOHERTY


Veronica Guerin's brother criticizes Gemma O'Doherty

Jimmy Guerin has said that he will confront Gemma O’Doherty over her “conspiracy theory” alleging that there was state collusion in his sister’s death if she seeks a nomination from Fingal county council today.

 

Ms O’Doherty, a freelance journalist, has claimed during her campaign that Veronica Guerin, the crime reporter, was murdered by the state. “I think Veronica, you know, she was heavily involved with criminals and very dangerous individuals. I believe Veronica was murdered by the state because she was getting far too close to some of the state’s very dirtiest secrets,” she said at an event in Waterford last month.

 

Ms Guerin was shot dead in her car on the outskirts of Dublin in 1996.

 

No conspiracy or State involvement in Veronica Guerin murder, brother says


 

Gemma O'Doherty's previous good record for investigative journalism

 

List of Awards


2007 ESB National Media Awards (Print Campaigning and Social Issues)

2011 GSK Irish Medical Media Awards (Consumer Print Media)

Shortlisted for 2012 NNI Journalism Awards (Crime & Security Reporter of the Year and Feature Writer of the Year)

2012 International Journalism Festival

2016 Award of Recognition in the Women Filmmaker section at the Hollywood Independent Documentary Awards

2016 Award of Excellence in the Feature Documentary section at the Hollywood Independent Documentary Awards

2016 Award of Merit at IndieFEST Film Awards


 

Lack of Irish media interest in her stories about Mary Boyle and Madeleine McCann

Investigative journalist faces apathy as she seeks to reveal the truth about the disappearance of ‘Ireland’s Madeleine McCann’

 

Mary Boyle is Ireland’s Madeleine McCann. Her case is the country’s longest-running missing child investigation. Not that there has been much investigation. There has been no inquest, no commission of inquiry and no debate in the Irish parliament despite mounting evidence, supported by the testimony of two former police officers, of a cover-up.

 

On 19 August 2018, O'Doherty announced that she was seeking a nomination to stand for the presidency in the 2018 election. During her campaign to seek a nomination, she alleged that there was state collusion in the murder of journalist Veronica Guerin, and threatened councillors with libel after the claims were raised at a meeting of Clare County Council called to hear from potential candidates.

 



IRISH TIMES Article 

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/presidential-hopeful-gemma-o-doherty-excoriated-by-veronica-guerin-s-brother-1.3624591

 

Presidential hopeful Gemma O’Doherty excoriated by Veronica Guerin’s brother


‘Only John Gilligan and Gemma O’Doherty say he is not responsible for Veronica’s death - Jimmy Guerin

Fingal councillor Jimmy Guerin, the brother of Veronica Guerin, excoriated independent presidential candidate Gemma O’Doherty over her allegations the State was involved in the murder of the investigative journalist.

 

Describing her allegations as hurtful, offensive and “disgusting”, Cllr Guerin told a meeting of Fingal County Council, held to decide presidential nominations, that  he wanted Ms O’Doherty to allow his late sister rest in peace.

 

He dismissed her allegations about State involvement in his sister’s death out of hand.

 

“In 22 years only two people I have come across say John Gilligan is not responsible for Veronica’s murder: one is John Gilligan. The other is Gemma O’Doherty,” he said.

 

Ms O’Doherty, also a journalist, claimed at an anti-corruption meeting in Waterford last month she believed Ms Guerin “was murdered by the State because she was getting far too close to some of the State’s very dirtiest secrets”.

 

In a Twitter post on Sunday, Ms O’Doherty listed Fingal as one of six councils to which her team would be making presentations on Monday. Mr Guerin then announced he would be confronting Ms O’Doherty over her remarks at the meeting. In the end she did not appear before the council, travelling to councils in Monaghan, Offaly and Kilkenny instead.

 

In her absence, Mr Guerin made pointed criticisms of Ms O’Doherty in a personal and emotional statement at the start of the meeting. Other councillors applauded the speech at its conclusion.

 

“It is 22 years since Veronica was brutally murdered and time doesn’t make it easier but it hurts when a presidential candidate who in my view is going nowhere, for cheap publicity tries to speak ill of my sister and make unfounded allegations against her and this state.

 

“A great sense of comfort at the time of Veronica’s death was how the State and various State agencies reacted.”

 

Mr Guerin said: “These hurtful, poisonous, unfounded allegations that Ms O’Doherty makes insult not only Veronica’s memory but the many gardaí who literally put their lives on the line and challenge the gangs that were responsible for her killing.

 

“It insults the prosecutors who fearlessly brought the evidence before the courts. It insults the judiciary, who heard the evidence, without fear or favour. It insults the thousands of ordinary people who contacted our family and were a great sense of support for us in a most difficult time.”

 

He said there was no conspiracy or State involvement.

 

“She was murdered because she wasn’t prepared to be bullied by John Gilligan into dropping charges against him for a most vicious assault which would have ended in his drug empire collapsing.

 

“They’re the facts, I know that and I’m satisfied with that. And in 22 years, there are only two people that I have come across that say John Gilligan was not responsible for arranging Veronica’s murder.

 

“One is John Gilligan, the second is Gemma O’Doherty.

 

Mr Guerin told the meeting he would rather if Ms O’Doherty found something else to use to get publicity.

 

"There’s no conspiracy, no State involvement. And I would ask her to allow my sister rest in peace.”

 

Ms O’Doherty could not be reached for comment on Monday.

 

Ms O’Doherty responded by saying she rejected Mr Guerin’s claims and she would not be silenced by anybody including him. 

 

A member of An Garda Siochana informed me it was his belief that a State official colluded with individuals who wanted Veronica Guerin silenced. I have no reason to doubt him because he is an honest and diligent officer.

 

“Veronica Guerin has nothing to do with my Presidential campaign but I believe she is being used as a desperate attempt to smear my good name and my chances of getting a nomination.”

 

[This article includes a 3-minute video of Jimmy Guerin expressing his disgust at Gemma O'Doherty's campaign 


 

TIMES ARTICLE
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/veronica-guerin-s-brother-to-press-gemma-o-doherty-on-conspiracy-theory-6fdqvcd68

 

Monday, September 10, 2018 - 02:40 PM

 

By Daniel McConnell

Political Editor

 

There was no conspiracy or State involvement in the killing of murdered journalist Veronica Guerin, her councillor brother Jimmy Guerin has said.

 

Speaking at a special meeting of Fingal County Council, Mr Guerin was afforded an opportunity to speak in response to recent controversial comments by aspirant Presidential candidate, Gemma O'Doherty.

 

Ms O'Doherty was scheduled to address the meeting alongside other candidates, but withdrew with less than an hour's notice, council officials confirmed.

 

Ms O'Doherty recently claimed that Ms Guerin was murdered by the State but her comments were on Monday afternoon strongly rejected by Mr Guerin.

 

He said in the 22 years since her death, only two people have said John Gilligan did not kill her. “They are John Gilligan and Gemma O'Doherty,” he said.

 

In a five minute speech, Mr Guerin, an independent councillor, referred to numerous statements in the media in recent weeks by Ms O'Doherty saying he found them to be “hurtful, offensive and disgusting.”

 

He said he and his family have found her comments about his sister to be very distasteful, especially one which suggested the Guerin family did not wish to find out the truth about Veronica's murder.

 

At a meeting with members of Clare County Council in early September, Ms O'Doherty said: “Anyone who is interested in finding out the truth about a murdered relative would surely welcome anybody who is shining a light on that, so I cannot understand the reaction of Mr Guerin, but I will not be bullied by anybody.”

 

Councillor Guerin rejected criticisms made by Ms O'Doherty about his business dealings.

 

Concluding his remarks, Mr Guerin restated his belief that there was no state involvement in his sister's killing and he called on Ms O'Doherty to stop making such remarks.

 

"There was no conspiracy and I would ask she would let my sister rest in peace," Mr Guerin said to warm applause from his fellow councillors and from the public gallery.

 

Last week, Ms O’Doherty clashed with members of Clare County Council over her claims that there was State collusion in the murder of Veronica Guerin.

 

At a specially convened meeting of Clare County Council in Ennis to hear from presidential hopefuls, Ms O’Doherty said that “a very dangerous tweet” from Mr Guerin, had defamed her.

 

Asking Ms O’Doherty to account for her “State collusion” claims, Cllr Mary Howard (FG) read out Mr Guerin’s tweet in full, where he stated Ms O’Doherty’s “State collusion” comments concerning the murder of his sister were “offensive, disgusting and extremely hurtful”.

 

The Fingal meeting also has heard from other aspirant candidates Joan Freeman and Kevin Sharkey.

 

Update - 8.32pm: In response to Mr Guerin's comments, Ms O'Doherty said no one - including Mr Guerin - was going to silence her.

 

“Mr Guerin is not going to silence me. I made a stated belief at a public meeting a number of weeks ago. This has nothing to do with my presidential campaign,” she told the Irish Examiner.

 

“I cannot see how it could be offensive,” she added.

 

“I am focusing on my campaign which is about corruption, transparency and accountability and nobody will silence me, including Mr Guerin,” she said.


LINKS

 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/no-conspiracy-or-state-involvement-in-veronica-guerin-murder-brother-says-868004.html

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/presidential-hopeful-gemma-o-doherty-excoriated-by-veronica-guerin-s-brother-1.3624591

____________________

Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Phoebe on 13.09.18 0:33

@ Tony Bennett  re. Martin Smith comments above - You ask -

"How come we have zero evidence that not one of the other NINE members of his party that night agree with his claim?


 Martin Smith, P.J. Files -


During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me WAS MY WIFE. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day."


Thus we can see that Mrs. Smith also supports the claim that the man they saw was Gerry!


You also state that the Smiths belief was based solely on the way Gerry McCann carried his son, yet, the files show that Smith actually said -


 "It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either."


I think it was member Penny Lane who previously pointed out that watching Gerry carrying his son was, for Smith, a pretty good live reconstruction of what he had seen on that night! I think that's a valid point. Unless Smith felt that there was a strong similarity in height, build, hairstyle, movement etc. he could not have been able to conclude that it was the same person.


You repeatedly claim that Mr. Smith happily worked with Team McCann but the fact is there is no proof of this whatsoever! You ask why Smith did not register his disapproval. Actually, we have no way of knowing that he did not, indeed, if it were not for O'Doherty's article we would never have seen the BBC admit their "error". Given what the Smiths have had to endure since they testified I completely understand their reluctance for further public involvement! They have been accused of being liars and co conspirators time and time again by those who refuse to believe them since it doesn't tally with a particular theory.


Finally, re. Gemma O'Doherty.  I again make the point that the Presidential race in Ireland tends to be a dirty, gloves off, smear campaign. The last one involved all manner of skullduggery. I expect to see plenty more character assassination attempts before polling day, and not just of O'Doherty!!


I genuinely wonder what the reaction from certain quarters would be if O'Doherty had written a piece highly critical of Martin Smith's sighting  
and evidence. Would there still be claims that she was an untrustworthy journalist or would she have her praises sung!

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by lemonbutter on 13.09.18 10:19

There is no doubt in my mind that Martin Smith did watch a virtual reconstruction of the night of May 3rd 2007 when he saw Gerry McCann carrying Sean off the plane upon their arrival back in the UK.

I have mentioned before that I thought Sean looked like he was almost dangling from Gerry's arms, his left arm straight by his side and his right arm almost straight as well. I note that Mrs Smith used the term "vertical" to describe the way that the little girl was carried by the man they passed at approximately 10.00pm on 3rd May.

I know that Verdi has said numerous times that this is the usual way to carry a sleeping child. I have looked at lots of images on google of people carrying a sleeping toddler and almost every image depicts a child with arms slightly around the neck of the adult. 

An instant flashback for Martin Smith - the most genuine witness in this whole sorry saga.

All my own opinion.

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Rob Royston on 13.09.18 10:49

Martin Smith, describing what triggered his recognition of Gerry began his statement with "It was the way he looked down...." In other words he alerted to how the man avoided eye contact. He was also aware of how he carried the child in the same manner on both occasions.
Why do people ignore what he said and only mention the carrying position?

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Verdi on 13.09.18 11:57

@Rob Royston wrote:Martin Smith, describing what triggered his recognition of Gerry began his statement with "It was the way he looked down...." In other words he alerted to how the man avoided eye contact.
Yet he was still able to describe the stranger with this degree of accuracy..

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Tony Bennett on 13.09.18 12:02

@Rob Royston wrote:Martin Smith, describing what triggered his recognition of Gerry began his statement with "It was the way he looked down...." In other words he alerted to how the man avoided eye contact. He was also aware of how he carried the child in the same manner on both occasions.
Why do people ignore what he said and only mention the carrying position?
@ Rob Royston

Welcome back.

In my message to @ Phoebe I was merely summarising, not 'ignoring' anything at all.

Believe me I am more than happy to reproduce in full all that Martin Smith is reported to have said - and below for you and everyone else are the two statements straight from the PJ Files (courtesy of 'pamalam' on this occasion) about what he said about 'recognising' Gerry McCann from a TV news clip:

========


From: Long Lindsay
Sent: 20th September, 2007 11:37
CC: Hughes John (DC)
Re: Smith Family

Rec via: TELEPHONE Series: 241 Ident: BC19-8286-1055 20/09/07
Telephone: *********
Locale: Portugal/Out of country
Origin: Mr. Martin Smith 'Ireland

Text: Reported that he passed a male carrying a child in Praia da Luz the night Maddie went missing. Went and made a statement to Portugal police in Portimao on 26th of May and returned to the U.K. Is saying that after seeing McCANNS on the news on 9th of September when they returned to the U.K. He has not slept and is worried sick. He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing. He also watched ITV news and SKY news and inferred it looked like the same person both times carrying the children. Is asking a member of the OP Task Force to ring him back. He was with a group of 9 family and friends the night he saw the male in Portugal. He sounded quite shaken and worried whilst speaking to me.



---- 


Sergeant  Liam Hogan


I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10' in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.

========

One thing to notice straightaway is how Martin Smith embellishes what he said when first questioned on 26 May. Then, IIRC, he said that he couldn't see what the man was wearing above the waist because the child was obscuring his vision. Four months later, he is able confidently to tell his Irish Police interviewer that the man was "wearing...a darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer". Funny how he never mentioned this when first questioned.

Now that we have exactly what Martin Smith told Irish Police, I can't see that this helps any case that Martin Smith genuinely 'recognised' Martin Smith.

The basis for this alleged 'recognition' is so tenuous hardly anyone would believe him - and any idea that this evidence would survive testing in a court of law is utterly laughable.

Especially, as I have documented, as he went on to co-operate with and meet with members of the McCann Team to produce two dodgy efits of different-looking men which have in the past five years been liberally used by the BBC, Scotland Yard, the mass media and the McCann Team themselves to continue the abduction narrative   

____________________

Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Tony Bennett on 13.09.18 12:06

@lemonbutter wrote:An instant flashback for Martin Smith - the most genuine witness in this whole sorry saga.
Unbelievable - surely one of the daftest statements ever made in the near 9-year life of CMOMM

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Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by Verdi on 13.09.18 12:10

@lemonbutter wrote:There is no doubt in my mind that Martin Smith did watch a virtual reconstruction of the night of May 3rd 2007 when he saw Gerry McCann carrying Sean off the plane upon their arrival back in the UK.

I have mentioned before that I thought Sean looked like he was almost dangling from Gerry's arms, his left arm straight by his side and his right arm almost straight as well. I note that Mrs Smith used the term "vertical" to describe the way that the little girl was carried by the man they passed
at approximately 10.00pm on 3rd May.

I know that Verdi has said numerous times that this is the usual way to carry a sleeping child. I have looked at lots of images on google of people carrying a sleeping toddler and almost every image depicts a child with arms slightly around the neck of the adult. 

An instant flashback for Martin Smith - the most genuine witness in this whole sorry saga.

All my own opinion.
So where are we going now - Sean McCann was drugged or lifeless on the flight back to the UK?

Described as 'vertical' because that is how the child was said to be carried - vertical meaning upright.

Vertical >>>   v.  Horizontal >>>

ooops  Slight breakdown in communications!  Or was it just another ruse to confuse?

I have looked at lots of people in real life carrying children - I rest my case yes .
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Re: Gemma O'Doherty: 'Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?'

Post by inspectorgadget on 13.09.18 12:56

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@lemonbutter wrote:An instant flashback for Martin Smith - the most genuine witness in this whole sorry saga.
Unbelievable - surely one of the daftest statements ever made in the near 9-year life of CMOMM
What a childish attitude. Time may yet tell but I fail to see why you can make such a claim just to ridicule a poster who has made some very valid points. You cannot possibly know whether the sighting is true or not in relation to GM and yet you continue to attack people who support it. And not just their stated opinions but personal attacks too.

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