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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Post by lemonbutter 04.11.17 8:21

Hello Verdi,

Would you mind clarifying just what you mean by:

There is only one possibility I can see that could encompass the McCanns actions, the friends adherence, the onslaught of UK senior officials across the board and the long term campaign.  A possibility that is pandemic and plugged as fast as every hole appears in it's structure.

I respect your opinions and would appreciate knowing specifically what a pandemic possibility means.

Thank you.
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Post by JRP 04.11.17 11:11

Government policy when somebody is arrested abroad is pretty clear, that the law of the country is to be respected, and there is very little our government can do to help you if you are guilty of a crime, apart from basic advice.
If you get caught smuggling drugs, even if you're an unwitting patsy, you are very much on your own. 

I don't believe 4 governments (Blair, Brown, Camoron, May) would get so deeply involved for over a decade to assist 2 unheard of doctors evade justice if the reason was simply a child was drugged, who fell off a sofa, banged her head and died and her parents were too drunk to notice for a few hours. 

And if you're going to say the medicine was illegal or blah blah Uncle Bob made them in his shed... So what! Do you really think Blair and Brown would swing into action, for legally or illegally administered sleeping medicines?
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Post by Phoebe 04.11.17 11:16

Verdi, I am trying to read between the lines when you say there is but one scenario you can think of that would account for a blanket cover up of Madeleine's death. I infer that you mean that an autopsy would reveal that she had been a victim of long term sexual assault?
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Post by JRP 04.11.17 11:45

Phoebe wrote:Verdi, I am trying to read between the lines when you say there is but one scenario you can think of that would account for a blanket cover up of Madeleine's death. I infer that you mean that an autopsy would reveal that she had been a victim of long term sexual assault?

Our successive governments will be tribal about most issues. NHS, police budgets, public spending, foreign policy, but they sing off the same sheet when child abuse issues are raised. 
And funnily enough, the police don't look too hard for elite peadophiles and the BBC help with general disinformation, and newspapers only print stories about dead peadophiles.

I would say it's pandemic, in that elite peadophilia is a world wide issue, far beyond what we know or imagine we know.
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Post by Verdi 04.11.17 12:14

polyenne wrote:Verdi, with all due respect, I’ll ask again. What do YOU think happened to Madeleine McCann ? As a long time researcher and being well-read on the subject, I’d be most interested in your take of the goings-on of that week.
I don't have a definitive opinion on what happened to Madeleine McCann - if I were to proffer such it would be only speculation, something I'm not prepared to do.

In my view, it's impossible to draw any positive conclusion in the absence of fact.  I only work on available material and instinct, so cannot fill in the blanks.

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Post by Verdi 04.11.17 12:33

JRP wrote:Government policy when somebody is arrested abroad is pretty clear, that the law of the country is to be respected, and there is very little our government can do to help you if you are guilty of a crime, apart from basic advice.
If you get caught smuggling drugs, even if you're an unwitting patsy, you are very much on your own. 

I don't believe 4 governments (Blair, Brown, Camoron, May) would get so deeply involved for over a decade to assist 2 unheard of doctors evade justice if the reason was simply a child was drugged, who fell off a sofa, banged her head and died and her parents were too drunk to notice for a few hours. 

And if you're going to say the medicine was illegal or blah blah Uncle Bob made them in his shed... So what! Do you really think Blair and Brown would swing into action, for legally or illegally administered sleeping medicines?
Thank you JRP, at last a voice of reason in a wilderness of misinformation.  I've been driving home this simple point for years but you are the only one who has ever echoed my reasoning.  Time and time again I've even posted-up the relevant extract from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office - Guide to Citizens Traveling Abroad, which clearly lays out the function of a embassy/consulate - what they can and can't do.

As I've tried endlessly to explain the broad function of an Ambassador, which people just refuse point blank to accept.  The remit for an Embassy and Consulate is severely restricted, basically they are figure-heads representing the British government and it's citizens.  They do not have the power to muscle in on a local police investigation - they (the consulate) are there to provide assistance and support to the individual, the British subject, that's where their function begins and ends.

Assistance to British citizens abroad is handled by the nearest consulate, if there is no consulate then the embassy is called upon but never never an Ambassador - they only get involved with representing British subjects when inter/national incidents that could destabilize the host countries safety and/or security occur.  For example natural disasters, war, terrorism etc.  Areas that do not include vanishing children.

In short, Ambassador John Buck should never have been sent to Praia da Luz to speak for the McCanns.  He and his representatives in the form of the local consulate should never have been in consultation with the police about the investigation, other than determining the McCanns status as victims and/or suspects - then only to convey the information back to the McCanns.

The rest of your post is also spot on and back on topic thumbsup .

Edited for clarification.

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Post by Liz Eagles 04.11.17 12:39

Verdi wrote:
aquila wrote:Perhaps Verdi can help out here to point out the part of rogatory interview I'm speaking of.
No Verdi cant! 

a) I haven't a clue what you're talking about and b) members can check out the rogatory interviews for themselves, I'm not a lackey.  

If as I think, you are referring to Dianne Webster, it's here..

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

m1264
Apologies Verdi, it was me being lazy.
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Post by Verdi 04.11.17 13:01

Phoebe wrote:Verdi, I am trying to read between the lines when you say there is but one scenario you can think of that would account for a blanket cover up of Madeleine's death. I infer that you mean that an autopsy would reveal that she had been a victim of long term sexual assault?
The horrendous global problem of child sex abuse is the only plausible explanation I can see for the extent of high powered influence in this case.

Just like Operation Grange, they use dead men for world focus rather than the living who are continuing to satiate their perverted lust unabated.
 
Sickening.

Still, the thread is about PeterMac's theory not mine, so back on topic please folks.

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Post by Verdi 04.11.17 15:21

lemonbutter wrote:Hello Verdi,

Would you mind clarifying just what you mean by:

There is only one possibility I can see that could encompass the McCanns actions, the friends adherence, the onslaught of UK senior officials across the board and the long term campaign.  A possibility that is pandemic and plugged as fast as every hole appears in it's structure.

I respect your opinions and would appreciate knowing specifically what a pandemic possibility means.

Thank you.
Sorry lemonbutter, I didn't mean to ignore you.  I think your question has been answered by my subsequent posts - at least I hope so.

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Post by lemonbutter 04.11.17 15:40

Yes, thanks Verdi
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Post by jazega 03.12.17 4:25

In my reading of Peter Mac's theory,to me,he is putting forward his hypothesis of how she died,not why there was involvement of the UK government,MI 5 etc.
His theory of her cause of death is plausible,though the blood patterns on the curtains and the wall are IMO inconsistent with the fall he describes.
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Post by ROSA 26.12.17 7:06

Verdi wrote:Yes this is true, the dangers to children left unattended for even a minute are ever present but not sedated in the home environment - at least I sincerely hope not!

You are however missing the point.  PeterMac's theory clearly refers to Madeleine and the twins being sedated on the night of Sunday 29th April and the twins sedated every night between the Sunday and Thursday.

I repeat - why sedate children if you don't intend to leave them alone?

No neglect = no abduction = no sedation
A reason to sedate a child for pedopohile reasons

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For Paulo Sargento, the thesis that Gonçalo Amaral revealed at first hand to "SP" that the blanket could have been used in a funeral ceremony at the Luz chapel "is very interesting".
 
And he adds: "In reality, when the McCanns went to Oprah's Show, the blanket was mentioned. At a given moment, when Oprah tells Kate that she heard her mention a blanket several times, Kate argued that a mother who misses a child always wants to know if she is comfortable, if she is warm, and added, referring to Maddie, that sometimes she asked herself if the person who had taken her would cover her up with her little blanket (but the blanket was on the bed after Maddie, supposedly, disappeared!!!).
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Post by Verdi 26.12.17 12:35

ROSA wrote:A reason to sedate a child for pedopohile reasons
Even I, wearing my customary cynicism, don't believe for a moment that three siblings were being sexually abused simultaneously.

The implication here is, the three McCann children were regularly sedated during the holiday to allow the parents to leave them unattended whilst they went for dinner.  That is the point I contend.

I don't believe the children were left alone every night.  No neglect = no abduction = no sedation.

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Post by ROSA 26.12.17 12:42

Verdi wrote:
ROSA wrote:A reason to sedate a child for pedopohile reasons
Even I, wearing my customary cynicism, don't believe for a moment that three siblings were being sexually abused simultaneously.

The implication here is, the three McCann children were regularly sedated during the holiday to allow the parents to leave them unattended whilst they went for dinner.  That is the point I contend.

I don't believe the children were left alone every night.  No neglect = no abduction = no sedation.
Even I, wearing my customary cynicism, don't believe for a moment that three siblings were being sexually abused simultaneously.
I never said the twins were but I think Maddie was

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For Paulo Sargento, the thesis that Gonçalo Amaral revealed at first hand to "SP" that the blanket could have been used in a funeral ceremony at the Luz chapel "is very interesting".
 
And he adds: "In reality, when the McCanns went to Oprah's Show, the blanket was mentioned. At a given moment, when Oprah tells Kate that she heard her mention a blanket several times, Kate argued that a mother who misses a child always wants to know if she is comfortable, if she is warm, and added, referring to Maddie, that sometimes she asked herself if the person who had taken her would cover her up with her little blanket (but the blanket was on the bed after Maddie, supposedly, disappeared!!!).
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Post by Sundance 31.08.18 15:24


The conspiracy is hatched with the entire group. After the dreadful event of the Sunday night they all pull together and ensure nothing else could ever happen like that to the other children . . . and begin to work out the strategy. This includes all the children being looked after by one adult every evening.

I'm sorry, but this part simply doesn't hang together. Are we to believe that Kate and Gerry corralled the whole party together and blithely announced that Maddie was dead now and they need help in covering it up and 'ensure nothing else could happen like that to the other children'?
Even the most staunch and stoical friends would not countenance such a macabre request, with a dead child being plonked in to a tennis bag and secreted in a freezer. And how would they be so sure that the friends would all simply play along, despite the fact that they all have kids of their own?
Or am I reading this wrong?
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Post by Verdi 31.08.18 15:35

Sundance, would you be so good as to identify who made the above quote and where.

As stand alone it doesn't mean anything. Thanks thumbsup

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Post by PLL 31.08.18 16:35

You're touching crucial points here: abnormal diplomatic involvement, what was behind Madeleine's death, and why is all the group committed with McCanns.

There's something escaping our best imagination that is the key to all this mystery.

There's no doubt Madeleine died. There's no other explanation for British dog's surgical behaviour.

Let's suppose McCanns are on holiday and her daughter dies, either naturally of from an accident.

Why wouldn't parents simply call police? The investigation would be quite simple and they wouldn't even be asked about every detail about their holiday from day 1. The investigation would hardly run far beyond the circumstances of death.

Can you find a single case in all criminal records where a body was hidden by sound people in case of natural or accidental death?

The only hypothesis left is murder or an unintentional death during criminal action.

For diplomatic involvement, I can't believe a murderer will ever find many friends.

For the rest of the group, either they were unaware of what happened, participated in it or knew about it.
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Post by Sundance 31.08.18 17:59

Verdi wrote:Sundance,  would you be so good as to identify who made the above quote and where.

As stand alone it doesn't mean anything.  Thanks thumbsup
Yes, it's the author of this thread, taken directly from his hypothesis. Apologies, but I'm on my mobile. 
The point being, how did the McCann's manage to coerce a whole table full of friends and acquaintances to aid and abet a criminal offence, and why would they automatically believe it was an accident?
It doesn't make any sense whatsoever
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Post by Tony Bennett 31.08.18 21:20

Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:Sundance,  would you be so good as to identify who made the above quote and where.

As stand alone it doesn't mean anything.  Thanks thumbsup
Yes, it's the author of this thread, taken directly from his hypothesis. Apologies, but I'm on my mobile. 
The point being, how did the McCann's manage to coerce a whole table full of friends and acquaintances to aid and abet a criminal offence, and why would they automatically believe it was an accident?
It doesn't make any sense whatsoever
On this one specific point I am in full agreement with @ Sundance.

It doesn't make sense.

No-one is a greater admirer of Petermac's extraordinary research efforts than I am, but one of the weaknesses of his theory ["Madeleine had a fatal accident during Sunday night/Monday morning which the McCanns didn't discover until they woke up Monday morning"] is just that: Why on earth would their seven friends cover this up? - and at huge risk to their careers?

Another weakness of Petermac's theory is that it doesn't account at all for the massive deluge of British government officials, Embassy staff, police officers, security and secret services agents, psychological and criminal profilers e.g. from CEOP and MI5, PR officials and lawyers etc. etc. descending on Praia da Luz within days or even, in some cases, hours of the alert being given that Madeleine was missing.

Nor does theory help to explain the sudden change of plans on the Sunday night - the rush, and demand - insistence, even - that they MUST have their own table in the Tapas restaurant for the whole of the rest of the week, the switch to having breakfast and lunch in their own apartment instead of mixing with the others, leaving and entering the apartment by different doors for the rest of the week etc. etc.

Therefore it not surprising that some people - admittedly without any hard evidence - consider that [if Madeleine died Sunday evening/Monday morning] her death may have been caused deliberately. By whom is another issue.

It has also been argued that the Tapas 7 were content to make up all sorts of stories about what happened that week because they already KNEW that they had cover in place right up to the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

If you look back to @ aquila's post upthread on 2 November 2017, she was already thinking along these lines...

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Verdi 31.08.18 21:37

Sundance wrote:
Verdi wrote:Sundance,  would you be so good as to identify who made the above quote and where.

As stand alone it doesn't mean anything.  Thanks thumbsup
Yes, it's the author of this thread, taken directly from his hypothesis. Apologies, but I'm on my mobile. 
The point being, how did the McCann's manage to coerce a whole table full of friends and acquaintances to aid and abet a criminal offence, and why would they automatically believe it was an accident?
It doesn't make any sense whatsoever
Ah thank you Sundance, I see it now.   In context which makes all the difference.

I'm in full agreement with you, as can be seen by my reply to the original post.  The extensive theory is based on supposition and Kate McCanns autobiographical novel, it makes no allowances for the many variables identified and fully discussed on CMoMM over past years.

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Post by PLL 31.08.18 21:46

I agree with Sundance and Tony. Also, no one is questioning anyone's efforts to solve this, and every effort is welcome. I think everybody is missing some critical point, Amaral included, who I praise so much as you know.

That's one of the greatest mysteries, we're talking about 7 people (or 6 if you consider Dianna Webster, Fiona's mother, an outsider). This plus Catriona if Madeleine disappeared on April 29th.

Everybody is clearly aware that they are committing a criminal offense and on top of any consciousness problems, they know that they will be jailed if something goes wrong.

Unless that group had a criminal commitment before, and that was an unintentional death that would denunciate the entire group.

Concealing a body doesn't only hide a death, it also hides its cause.

The diplomatic dimension, fast and at highest level (PM), is also abnormal and not understandable.

Imagine a building with 8 apartments where everybody knows each other and have good relations. Now imagine someone's 3-year-old daughter dies suddenly at home. Can you imagine the parents telling neighbours they'll get rid of the body, simulate an abduction, and ask them to keep silent. Do you believe this would ever work?
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Post by PLL 31.08.18 22:22

Can you find a single case for me in all criminal records where someone who died of natural cause or accident had the corpse hidden by sound people?
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Post by Phoebe 01.09.18 1:35

PLL wrote:Can you find a single case for me in all criminal records where someone who died of natural cause or accident had the corpse hidden by sound people?
If it were the case that either (A) inadequate provision for the safety of a minor or (B) the administration of sedation to a minor or (C)  both A and B, were contributory factors in Madeleine's death (as Peter Mac suggests) then the death could not be deemed "accidental". Therefore, the parents would have had a good reason to hide the corpse. Put simply, the McCanns covered up her death (even if it had been unintended) for fear of their culpability being exposed and the inevitable consequences such exposure would have for their reputations and careers.
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Post by Verdi 01.09.18 1:40

PLL wrote:Also, no one is questioning anyone's efforts to solve this, and every effort is welcome.
Sincere thanks for your advising on how you think the forum should be administered, it's truly appreciated and will of course be taken on board by team admin.

I do however believe you are finding difficulty with grasping the true purpose of CMoMM, quite understandable considering the language difficulty and your being a new member, only a couple of days to be precise.

It's important for the forum to keep things in order for the benefit of all members and guest readers alike so please don't be afraid to ask for guidance on any aspect, team admin are at your disposal.

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Post by PLL 01.09.18 1:55

Many thanks for your comment, Verdi.

I can't but think the purpose of the forum is finding what happened to Madeleine McCann, and that's why I'm here.

I don't always agree with everything you write, as you know, and the same applies to my writings, as I know.

Tony thought I was a native English speaker disguised as Portuguese person and you say I have language dificulty. big grin  Not everybody is in agreement here.

Thanks again for your offering of guidance. It's always good to feel a warm welcome by important members.
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