PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Phoebe wrote: (A) inadequate provision for the safety of a minor or (B) the administration of sedation to a minor or (C) both A and B, were contributory factors in Madeleine's death (as Peter Mac suggests) then the death could not be deemed "accidental". Therefore, the parents would have had a good reason to hide the corpse..
(A) would hardly be questioned. Investigation would be centered mostly on circumstances. Father or mother could simply be home, even if not looking at her every second. Inadequate safety only was questioned, and couldn't be denied, because there was a disappearance.
(B) not that easy to accept. It's Amaral hypothesis, but let's think about its caveats.
- They think it would be intravenous, as a syringe was found in the apartment (my comment: why not use drops for instance?). In this case she either died immediately or later. I think they would start sedating Madeleine, the oldest one, and only then sedate twins (thus she wouldn't see that). So if she died immediately, would they sedate twins next? If she died later, would they feel safe about their twins? If she died, why couldn't they also die? They would even risk one of the twins die after GNR, and later PJ, came.
- The dogs found blood odour on a spot where cadaver odour was found. Dying from sedation hardly explains that.
Sedating Madeleine as a cause of death hardly explains why they got commitment from the entire Tapas group (unless perhaps they all sedated children with syringes).
Anyway, if they sedated children every night intravenously, wouldn't people in OC notice those children had arms pricked?
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Maybe they didn't inject them in the arms - maybe they injected in the thigh where the pricks wouldn't be seen.PLL wrote:
Anyway, if they sedated children every night intravenously, wouldn't people in OC notice those children had arms pricked?
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
If Madeleine came to harm and parental supervision was demonstrably lacking -eg- (1) they could be placed elsewhere at time of death as established by autopsy ; (2) there was an inordinate delay in finding her body and reporting the death; (3) she had obviously died outdoors, eg. as a result of a fall over the railings when looking for her absent parents at night, (4) failure to take appropriate medical action following illness or accident which had occurred some time before death - any of these hypothetical situations would result in the parents being deemed guilty of reckless endangerment. The McCanns were medics, and as such, would receive an unsympathetic reaction to any attempt to excuse how any of the aforementioned examples of negligence of their child could have resulted in her death without incurring serious reputational damage.PLL wrote:Phoebe wrote: (A) inadequate provision for the safety of a minor or (B) the administration of sedation to a minor or (C) both A and B, were contributory factors in Madeleine's death (as Peter Mac suggests) then the death could not be deemed "accidental". Therefore, the parents would have had a good reason to hide the corpse..
(A) would hardly be questioned. Investigation would be centered mostly on circumstances. Father or mother could simply be home, even if not looking at her every second. Inadequate safety only was questioned, and couldn't be denied, because there was a disappearance.
(B) not that easy to accept. It's Amaral hypothesis, but let's think about its caveats.
- They think it would be intravenous, as a syringe was found in the apartment (my comment: why not use drops for instance?). In this case she either died immediately or later. I think they would start sedating Madeleine, the oldest one, and only then sedate twins (thus she wouldn't see that). So if she died immediately, would they sedate twins next? If she died later, would they feel safe about their twins? If she died, why couldn't they also die? They would even risk one of the twins die after GNR, and later PJ, came.
- The dogs found blood odour on a spot where cadaver odour was found. Dying from sedation hardly explains that.
Sedating Madeleine as a cause of death hardly explains why they got commitment from the entire Tapas group (unless perhaps they all sedated children with syringes).
Anyway, if they sedated children every night intravenously, wouldn't people in OC notice those children had arms pricked?
AFAIK the stories about a syringe found in the apartment are complete myth. Secondly, there is absolutely no need for sedation to be administered by injection. Oral administration is completely effective. In any case, it is a moot point since no body, with or without hypodermic punctures has been found!
With regard to your statement -
"The dogs found blood odour on a spot where cadaver odour was found. Dying from sedation hardly explains that".
the reality is boths dog reacted to a spot behind the couch. This does NOT necessarily mean that a body was there. Eddie, as a cadaver dog, would ALSO have reacted to traces of old blood. It is ONLY Keela who was restricted to reacting to one substance ie. human blood. That Madeleine actually died behind the sofa is a likely hypothesis put forward by Dr. Amaral, but no more than that. In any case, sedation and blood are not mutually exclusive as you suggest. Dr. Amaral's hypothesis was that Madeleine, groggy form sedation, may have fallen from the sofa when trying to look out of the window. A groggy sedated child who suffers a fall is no less likely to bleed than an alert child who falls without having been sedated!
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
PLL wrote:They think it would be intravenous, as a syringe was found in the apartment (my comment: why not use drops for instance?).
Would that be the hyo-thetical syringe reported by the UK tabloids per chance?
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t13561p425-media-mayhem-mccann-media-nonsense-of-the-day#390312
I'm not aware of any mention of this syringe included in the forensic evidence harvested as detailed in the Portuguese process files - perhaps you could provide the link to where this can be found?
In my view the clue is here in these few words taken from Kate McCann's book, 'madeleine'..
"Had Madeleine been given some kind of sedative to keep her quiet? Had the twins too?"
It's all a load of twaddle to confound the investigation, to reinforce the abduction scenario. Apart from anything else, if Madeleine 'disappeared' earlier in the week as is now the prevailing thought - why would the twins be sedated on the night of Thursday 3rd May 2007?
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Posted by algarveresident on August 31, 2007
REPORTS IN Portuguese national newspaper Correio da Manhã claim that Judicial Police officers found a syringe with tranquilizer medication on a bedside table in the McCanns apartment, where Madeleine went missing. However, there is no indication when this is alleged to have been found.
The Resident spoke to Olegário Sousa, spokesperson for the investigation, who said that he could not confirm nor comment on press reports.
It has been widely reported that Gerry McCann stormed off a television set during an interview with Spanish television, after the host asked him about the blood that was allegedly found in the apartment. He left Kate on the stage on her own but returned later to complete the interview in a calmer state.Sousa said that they were “are all waiting for news” on the test results of the DNA evidence that was taken to Birmingham, England, adding that patience was important at this stage.
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Claims that medication found in McCanns apartment
REPORTS IN Portuguese national newspaper Correio da Manhã claim that Judicial Police officers found a syringe with tranquilizer medication on a bedside table in the McCanns apartment, where Madeleine went missing. However, there is no indication when this is alleged to have been found.
The Resident spoke to Olegário Sousa, spokesperson for the investigation, who said that he could not confirm nor comment on press reports.
It has been widely reported that Gerry McCann stormed off a television set during an interview with Spanish television, after the host asked him about the blood that was allegedly found in the apartment. He left Kate on the stage on her own but returned later to complete the interview in a calmer state.Sousa said that they were “are all waiting for news” on the test results of the DNA evidence that was taken to Birmingham, England, adding that patience was important at this stage.
....................
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
The Tapas 9's behaviour on the the night of the "abduction" has always seemed odd to me, if one accepts that the events were carefully planned and all were fully cognisant of what was afoot.
It would have been obvious to them that, once it was announced that Madeleine had been taken, suspicion was bound to fall on those who knew that Madeleine was alone and vulnerable during that period. Indeed, save for Jane Tanner "witnessing the abduction" not only Gerry but also Russell and Matt had elected to bat off a very on a sticky wicket re. coming under suspicion. Both Gerry and Russell were absent from the table for quite some time during the "Window of opportunity" allegedly selected. Then Matt admitted having actually entered the apartment during the crucial period. Three men, who knew where the child was and that she was unprotected, absent without alibis, during the time she disappears!
I have often wondered why they did not, instead, arrange to claim that the women of the group were performing the checks. Nothing is more natural than mothers walking across to check on their sleeping babies and society would find it harder to suspect Jane or Rachel of having done something to Madeleine while absent from the table (sexist I know, but true). Women are regarded as less likely to prey on the children of others than men, and would be deemed physically less capable of sprinting off carrying an almost four year old child, (alive or dead) and successfully secreting her).
Their plan has always troubled me in this respect, especially if they were being given external advice or assistance with the planning!
It would have been obvious to them that, once it was announced that Madeleine had been taken, suspicion was bound to fall on those who knew that Madeleine was alone and vulnerable during that period. Indeed, save for Jane Tanner "witnessing the abduction" not only Gerry but also Russell and Matt had elected to bat off a very on a sticky wicket re. coming under suspicion. Both Gerry and Russell were absent from the table for quite some time during the "Window of opportunity" allegedly selected. Then Matt admitted having actually entered the apartment during the crucial period. Three men, who knew where the child was and that she was unprotected, absent without alibis, during the time she disappears!
I have often wondered why they did not, instead, arrange to claim that the women of the group were performing the checks. Nothing is more natural than mothers walking across to check on their sleeping babies and society would find it harder to suspect Jane or Rachel of having done something to Madeleine while absent from the table (sexist I know, but true). Women are regarded as less likely to prey on the children of others than men, and would be deemed physically less capable of sprinting off carrying an almost four year old child, (alive or dead) and successfully secreting her).
Their plan has always troubled me in this respect, especially if they were being given external advice or assistance with the planning!
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
It wasn't like that though was it - the group allegedly took it in turns to check on their respective children and sometimes check on their friends children - depending which version you read.
Kate McCann was about to check at 9 something o'clock but one of the men volunteered to look in on their children - Kate McCann then later went off on her own to check sometime around 10:00pm.
Jane Tanner was flip-flopping around the streets ferrying plates of food to-and-fro and whatever else.
Rachel Oldfield was timorously walking to-and-fro (for she was afeared of the dark) swathed in a sort of a windproof-y fleece-y type of thing (for she was afeared of the cold).
Maybe, if indeed any of this is a truthful account of events - which I seriously doubt, they were reverting to their cave-man instincts by protecting their womenfolk . I can easily picture Gerry McCann beating his chest with his fists ....
'me Tarzan - you Jane' !!!
Kate McCann was about to check at 9 something o'clock but one of the men volunteered to look in on their children - Kate McCann then later went off on her own to check sometime around 10:00pm.
Jane Tanner was flip-flopping around the streets ferrying plates of food to-and-fro and whatever else.
Rachel Oldfield was timorously walking to-and-fro (for she was afeared of the dark) swathed in a sort of a windproof-y fleece-y type of thing (for she was afeared of the cold).
Maybe, if indeed any of this is a truthful account of events - which I seriously doubt, they were reverting to their cave-man instincts by protecting their womenfolk . I can easily picture Gerry McCann beating his chest with his fists ....
'me Tarzan - you Jane' !!!
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Jill, you’re right about tight hypothesis.
Phoebe and Verdi, you’re right about syringe and I remove it.
Phoebe:
- An autopsy establishing parents were elsewhere?
- How much delay are you talking about?
- How could police prove she was looking for her parents?
- Doctors can’t always resuscitate people and to date no one has ever been jailed or ostracized by public for failing that.
- Sedation and blood are not mutually exclusive because dying behind sofa is just one of Amaral’s hypothesis? There was blood in apartment and sedation is not an explanation for that, irrespective of place where death took place.
- Groggy from sedation and trying to look out of windows? Isn’t that too much hyperactivity for a sedated child?
Phoebe and Verdi, you’re right about syringe and I remove it.
Phoebe:
- An autopsy establishing parents were elsewhere?
- How much delay are you talking about?
- How could police prove she was looking for her parents?
- Doctors can’t always resuscitate people and to date no one has ever been jailed or ostracized by public for failing that.
- Sedation and blood are not mutually exclusive because dying behind sofa is just one of Amaral’s hypothesis? There was blood in apartment and sedation is not an explanation for that, irrespective of place where death took place.
- Groggy from sedation and trying to look out of windows? Isn’t that too much hyperactivity for a sedated child?
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
I've given this 'conspiracy' amongst the Tapas attendees a bit more thought.
There's a few issues, notwithstanding the basic human element whereby if Kate or Gerry had accidentally or purposely killed their daughter and the subsequent normal reaction of either of them, and the actual act of McCann coercion of the group:
- When did this happen, with all of them in attendance, despite not knowing how they would react?
- How did they hatch the plan to bring the others in to the cover up and ask for assistance and at which point? In the room? When?
- How did they explain the absence of MM in the interim (however long that was) to everyone, creche staff and Tapas friends?
So, as I explained in my previous post, there's no way one or other of the parents (Gerry or Kate) would even remotely consider covering for the other if they weren't both equally culpable somehow - which points to sedation.
Additionally, having given it some thought, the only way all or part of the group would agree to conspire would be if they were also somehow culpable, maybe by also having their own children sedated. But this is problematic, as when some of them were supposed to have been checking, they wouldn't be checking to see of they were still asleep, they'd be checking to see if they were still alive! It doesn't fit.
They can't all be sociopaths; one or two might be, but they can't all be lacking in empathy regarding being asked to cover about a dead child and going about their business as usual.
Consider how you would act yourself. As a minimum you would pack up right there and then and get the hell out of Dodge, but more likely you would perhaps slink off and go straight to the police.
I was deeply engrossed in Peter's book and most of it hung together quite nicely. But by being so forensic, I believe the human instinctual reactions have been overlooked - exactly how would be people react in certain situations, particularly given that we are potentially talking about a dead child.
*Edit: And imagine the plight of Matthew Oldfield, if they were conspiring, then he would have been chosen to be the last person to see MM alive, which just about no sane person would agree to, irrespective of if they were in some way implicated. This also doesn't sit right. It's more likely that some of the tapas group were used as patsies - being used as corroboration of a narrative by checking / confirming checks, etc.
There's a few issues, notwithstanding the basic human element whereby if Kate or Gerry had accidentally or purposely killed their daughter and the subsequent normal reaction of either of them, and the actual act of McCann coercion of the group:
- When did this happen, with all of them in attendance, despite not knowing how they would react?
- How did they hatch the plan to bring the others in to the cover up and ask for assistance and at which point? In the room? When?
- How did they explain the absence of MM in the interim (however long that was) to everyone, creche staff and Tapas friends?
So, as I explained in my previous post, there's no way one or other of the parents (Gerry or Kate) would even remotely consider covering for the other if they weren't both equally culpable somehow - which points to sedation.
Additionally, having given it some thought, the only way all or part of the group would agree to conspire would be if they were also somehow culpable, maybe by also having their own children sedated. But this is problematic, as when some of them were supposed to have been checking, they wouldn't be checking to see of they were still asleep, they'd be checking to see if they were still alive! It doesn't fit.
They can't all be sociopaths; one or two might be, but they can't all be lacking in empathy regarding being asked to cover about a dead child and going about their business as usual.
Consider how you would act yourself. As a minimum you would pack up right there and then and get the hell out of Dodge, but more likely you would perhaps slink off and go straight to the police.
I was deeply engrossed in Peter's book and most of it hung together quite nicely. But by being so forensic, I believe the human instinctual reactions have been overlooked - exactly how would be people react in certain situations, particularly given that we are potentially talking about a dead child.
*Edit: And imagine the plight of Matthew Oldfield, if they were conspiring, then he would have been chosen to be the last person to see MM alive, which just about no sane person would agree to, irrespective of if they were in some way implicated. This also doesn't sit right. It's more likely that some of the tapas group were used as patsies - being used as corroboration of a narrative by checking / confirming checks, etc.
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Sundance wrote:They can't all be sociopaths; one or two might be, but they can't all be lacking in empathy regarding being asked to cover about a dead child and going about their business as usual.
Whatever scenario you care to consider, fact remains the McCanns and their group of friends have conspired together to cover-up the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
That's the problem - I can't find a scenario that fits the facts and basic human reaction one would expect. They can't all in unison have agreed to cover up for a dead kid, then merrily carry on drinking and playing tennis, knowing there's a dead child in a tennis bag or a freezer - normal people don't all react that way. And if we are to believe it, then why? All people do things for their own ends, so what's to gain? To keep a pair of negligent parents as friends?Verdi wrote:Sundance wrote:They can't all be sociopaths; one or two might be, but they can't all be lacking in empathy regarding being asked to cover about a dead child and going about their business as usual.
Whatever scenario you care to consider, fact remains the McCanns and their group of friends have conspired together to cover-up the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
That’s the thing - it isn’t about them (the Tapas 9). It’s waaaaay bigger than that. Madeleine, poor wee girl, got caught up in something very seedy. Whether she was unfortunately directly involved or was an unintended consequence of an action by others is but one question.
If the real reason for the cover up is ever found, it’ll still be nigh on impossible to work back to ascertain who was culpable in her disappearance/death. I do believe they think they’re very safe.
If the real reason for the cover up is ever found, it’ll still be nigh on impossible to work back to ascertain who was culpable in her disappearance/death. I do believe they think they’re very safe.
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
(1) An autopsy would establish time of death. If it could have shown that the time of death was, say, 8 p.m. and the Tapas staff could confirm that all of the adults were at the Tapas bar then yes, the autopsy would have established that the death occurred while the parents were demonstrably elsewhere.PLL wrote:Jill, you’re right about tight hypothesis.
Phoebe and Verdi, you’re right about syringe and I remove it.
Phoebe:
- An autopsy establishing parents were elsewhere?
- How much delay are you talking about?
- How could police prove she was looking for her parents?
- Doctors can’t always resuscitate people and to date no one has ever been jailed or ostracized by public for failing that.
- Sedation and blood are not mutually exclusive because dying behind sofa is just one of Amaral’s hypothesis? There was blood in apartment and sedation is not an explanation for that, irrespective of place where death took place.
- Groggy from sedation and trying to look out of windows? Isn’t that too much hyperactivity for a sedated child?
(2) Some, (I believe Peter Mac among them) have suggested that Madeleine had died by accident while her parents were out wining and dining and that on their return they did not visually check on the children, believing all was well as there was no crying or other evidence of them being awake. On the following morning they found the body of their child. At this stage she would have been dead for around 11 hours. Again, an autopsy would establish time of death and they would have had some explaining to do about this delay.
(3) Being sedated does not stop bleeding! Dr. Amaral hypothesised that Madeleine may have fallen from the sofa when trying to see out of the window. He also believes she had been sedated. If I have taken something to help me sleep and subsequently fall and cut myself - I will bleed - it's simple fact!
(4) I not sure you understand the term sedation. We are not talking about anaesthesia here, merely a soporific to induce slumber! Imagine an adult taking something such as "Panadol Night" (paracetamol and diphenhydramine hydrochloride) it will induce sleep but hardly puts one into a coma unless an overdose is taken or there is an abnormal reaction to the drug. Of course the child could have awakened and moved around!
(5) The police could not prove that she was looking for her parents. I b=suggested no such thing. However, if she had died out of doors as the result of a fall then, again, a post-mortem might discover this eg. dirt or debris in a wound etc.
(6) I have no idea where you got the notion that doctors would be blamed for an unsuccessful rescuscitation attempt - the point I was making was that, as medics, they would have been expected to especially appreciate the risks of endangering children through neglect.
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Yet the twins slept through the pandemonium of the search for a missing child, even to the point of being passed from pillar to post and transported to another apartment. Seems to be more than just prescription sedation.Phoebe wrote:
(4) I not sure you understand the term sedation. We are not talking about anaesthesia here, merely a soporific to induce slumber! Imagine an adult taking something such as "Panadol Night" (paracetamol and diphenhydramine hydrochloride) it will induce sleep but hardly puts one into a coma unless an overdose is taken or there is an abnormal reaction to the drug. Of course the child could have awakened and moved around!
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
@Sundance. Given that this thread is about Peter Mac's theory of what happened, it should be remembered that the suggestion is that Madeleine did not meet her demise on the night of May 3rd but on a previous night. Therefore, whatever the level of slumber of the twins on that particular night, it bears no relation to whether or not they had been previously sedated, nor to what extent.
Personally, I do not believe the twins were given any sleeping aid on other nights. They were two years and two months old and experiencing a holiday during which they were "on the go" from early morning until bedtime without any naps. They, unlike Madeleine, had no alleged history of being poor sleepers. By May 3rd they had endured 6 days of this regime. Poor mites! A spoonful of Calpol Night or similar mild paediatric soporific on May 3rd would have ensured they slept heavily!
Personally, I do not believe the twins were given any sleeping aid on other nights. They were two years and two months old and experiencing a holiday during which they were "on the go" from early morning until bedtime without any naps. They, unlike Madeleine, had no alleged history of being poor sleepers. By May 3rd they had endured 6 days of this regime. Poor mites! A spoonful of Calpol Night or similar mild paediatric soporific on May 3rd would have ensured they slept heavily!
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
There was a lot of emphasis put on the sedation issue by team McCann, by Kate McCann in particular. Is it really likely the subject would have received so much coverage if one of the McCanns or their friends administered some form of sedation to any of the children? They didn't know the police investigation files would be released into the public domain so folk would have been none the wiser if the McCanns themselves hadn't sown the seed.Sundance wrote:Yet the twins slept through the pandemonium of the search for a missing child, even to the point of being passed from pillar to post and transported to another apartment. Seems to be more than just prescription sedation.
The night of Thursday 3rd May, amidst all the reported pandemonium, remains a mystery. Gonçalo Amaral was anxious to know why there were two empty cots (stripped of bed linen) in the children's bedroom; Gerry McCann was said to be guarding the bedroom door to stop people entering; the McCanns friend said Kate McCann was constantly checking the twins breathing for signs of life yet nether did anything - too unbelievable to even contemplate; a source close to another source said the twins remained fast asleep whilst scores of people were traipsing in and out of the room; a couple of GNR officers mentioned, in their statements some weeks later, babies sleeping in the room during their inspection - this doesn't appear to be taken from their crime scene notes but from their recollection of the night, could be they were told so by the McCanns or their friends.
Seems to me the McCanns wanted, needed, the police to think the twins had been sedated to move the abduction theory forward. If there were any truth in this claim, the twins would have been medically tested through the auspices of the PJ or the McCann themselves, this way there could be no disputing that the twins (and most likely Madeleine) may have been sedated by the intruder/abductor. However, they didn't do that, instead Kate McCann put on an Oscar winning performance for all to see looking for signs of life !?!
My thought here is, during a routine police inspection of a crime scene, they would have insisted that the twins be relocated immediately - not to quietly grope around in a dark room so as not to wake two sleeping infants. Anything the McCanns and their friends said counts for little or nothing so the only indicative here is the GNR officer statements which are tenuous to say the least.
In my view, the sedation hypothesis was planted by team McCann to reinforce their abduction scenario, just as they planted the pedophile seed. The proverbial innocent explanation for anything the police might find. There is no such thing as the perfect crime, who knows in years to come what evidence might come to light somewhere .. somehow. No matter how sure the criminal might be that evidence is lost forever - there's always a chance. Dogs for example have an uncanny knack of sniffing things out when least expected.
Team McCann, over the past eleven years, have been feeding the public with false information to get them running around in circles - and it works every time! Folk are hungry for something new - anything new no matter how absurd, they'll grasp anything they read to start building yet another castle in the air.
NB: Not sure where you get the idea the twins were passed from pillar to post. From my recollection, according to the gospel of McCann, they were only moved from apartment 5a to David Payne's apartment some time on the night of 3rd/4th May.
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Phoebe, most accounts and witness testimony contradict one or other premises of sedation. If we are to believe that the lady upstairs (Mrs. Fenn?) heard MM sobbing for an hour or so on a previous night, then surely that would have roused the twins? So there'd be 3 kids wailing, not one - unless the twins were sedated in some manner.
Then on the fateful night the twins didn't wake at all, despite the obvious noise. Most parent know that farting at the wrong time will wake an infant, never mind two.
Irrespective, it still sends a chill down my spine to think that this pair of negligent parents would even consider leaving 3 babies alone for any length of time while they repeatedly socialised over a 100m away.
Then on the fateful night the twins didn't wake at all, despite the obvious noise. Most parent know that farting at the wrong time will wake an infant, never mind two.
Irrespective, it still sends a chill down my spine to think that this pair of negligent parents would even consider leaving 3 babies alone for any length of time while they repeatedly socialised over a 100m away.
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Verdi, I'm by no means as well read as most on this forum, so I will always bow to those with more knowledge.
If I'm honest, I'm still in the 'this s**t makes no sense' phase, and am searching for ideas / explanations from you guys who have researched infinitely more, hence the relatively random posts.
I do agree that all will be revealed at some point and one of the co-conspirators will cave one day, of that I am convinced.
If I'm honest, I'm still in the 'this s**t makes no sense' phase, and am searching for ideas / explanations from you guys who have researched infinitely more, hence the relatively random posts.
I do agree that all will be revealed at some point and one of the co-conspirators will cave one day, of that I am convinced.
Sundance- Posts : 105
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Sundance wrote:I do agree that all will be revealed at some point and one of the co-conspirators will cave one day, of that I am convinced.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think for a moment anyone will ever be brought to justice for this seemingly heinous crime - whatever the crime might be apart from the obvious - the disappearance of a three year old child.
During the summer of 2007, the McCanns couldn't possibily have foreseen how things would develop over the months, nor could they have aniticipated the continued public interest specifically generated by release of the PJ files a year later in the summer of 2008. They planted seeds everywhere to throw the investigation off track as they did to confound public interest via the media.
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Verdi- ex forum manager
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
I know this is sort of off on a tangent, but while you're here, has there ever been any talk of the phone hacking scandal in relation to this case? I know that the it first came to light in circa 2005, but surely other entities should have been able to exploit the same technology in May 2007?Verdi wrote:Sundance wrote:I do agree that all will be revealed at some point and one of the co-conspirators will cave one day, of that I am convinced.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think for a moment anyone will ever be brought to justice for this seemingly heinous crime - whatever the crime might be apart from the obvious - the disappearance of a three year old child.
During the summer of 2007, the McCanns couldn't possibily have foreseen how things would develop over the months, nor could they have aniticipated the continued public interest specifically generated by release of the PJ files a year later in the summer of 2008. They planted seeds everywhere to throw the investigation off track as they did to confound public interest via the media.
Sundance- Posts : 105
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Take yer pick..
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/search?search_keywords=leveson
Bet you wish you never asked .
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/search?search_keywords=leveson
Bet you wish you never asked .
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Verdi- ex forum manager
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Wow.Verdi wrote:Take yer pick..
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/search?search_keywords=leveson
Bet you wish you never asked .
I'll have a trawl through, that's why I'm here I suppose.
Was there any mileage in their voicemails being hacked / retained / covered up?
Sundance- Posts : 105
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
Sundance wrote:Wow.Verdi wrote:Take yer pick..
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/search?search_keywords=leveson
Bet you wish you never asked .
I'll have a trawl through, that's why I'm here I suppose.
Was there any mileage in their voicemails being hacked / retained / covered up?
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t13561p425-media-mayhem-mccann-media-nonsense-of-the-day#390381
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Verdi- ex forum manager
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
In my experience many young children have an remarkable ability to sleep in any surroundings, especially when very tired. While on holiday abroad I regularly see young toddlers asleep in their buggies while being pushed through the streets during noisy night festivals, busy "midnight" street-markets and in restaurants while the adults eat or have a drink. My own children (except one fella) could have slept through Armageddon! I remember one occasion when my then 4 year old son determinedly fell and remained asleep through a very noisy firework display during a Fiesta - this despite the fact that he had been looking forward to seeing it, he was not in a buggy, several of us tried doggedly to rouse him to watch the fireworks and the place was thronged and extremely noisy with music and even a cannon going off out at sea several times. He slept through the entire event and through being carried back through the streets and put to bed - all without any sedation!Sundance wrote:Phoebe, most accounts and witness testimony contradict one or other premises of sedation. If we are to believe that the lady upstairs (Mrs. Fenn?) heard MM sobbing for an hour or so on a previous night, then surely that would have roused the twins? So there'd be 3 kids wailing, not one - unless the twins were sedated in some manner.
Then on the fateful night the twins didn't wake at all, despite the obvious noise. Most parent know that farting at the wrong time will wake an infant, never mind two.
Irrespective, it still sends a chill down my spine to think that this pair of negligent parents would even consider leaving 3 babies alone for any length of time while they repeatedly socialised over a 100m away.
We also have no idea of the sleeping arrangements of the McCann children other than the assertion from the parents that they all shared a room. This is not borne out by cleaner's testimony who recounted having seen a cot in the parents bedroom on the morning after the crying episode Mrs. Fenn mentioned. I believe the police suspected that they might have been sedated, being unable to get their heads around the notion of children so casually abandoned at night, and that the McCanns belatedly decided to use this suggestion for their own ends in order to promote the abduction story.
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Re: PeterMac's theory of what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
After much research, many of us now believe that Madeleine died on April 29th. If this is true, and it was a result of her being sedated, then would the group risk harming another child by sedating them? Would they take the risk of leaving them alone? probably not.
Were know that at least one member of the group was away from the Tapas each night. It has also been suggested by the investigation that all the children (7 according to Clarrie) were being cared for in one apartment.
As a supporter of the above theories, my query is whether the children were sedated each night to make it easier for the group member who looked after them, or were just the twins sedated so that they would not stir and spoil Kates' Oscar winning performance on May 3rd?
Were know that at least one member of the group was away from the Tapas each night. It has also been suggested by the investigation that all the children (7 according to Clarrie) were being cared for in one apartment.
As a supporter of the above theories, my query is whether the children were sedated each night to make it easier for the group member who looked after them, or were just the twins sedated so that they would not stir and spoil Kates' Oscar winning performance on May 3rd?
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