Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

by Doug D 23.06.15 19:16

Sorry, but I got the impression that ‘Stevo’ had conceded defeat, but he has posted this this afternoon on HideHo FB thread, 4 hours ago, so he clearly hasn't:

‪Steve Marsden I've been using the wayback machine for years. It's rock solid. Going back in to tweak this data is like fiddling the books. You're right ‪Carmel. There is too much data in the wayback machine to corroborate this find. If you look at all the news channels on 9/11 there is every website but also every video covering the entire day. Going back to tweak things is like falsifying evidence.
4 hrs · Like · 3

by XXXXXXXX 23.06.15 19:19

@ Richard D. Hall Today at 6:19 pm

you mean like the MSM have ignored your vidoes that Mr Bennett says have had xzillion views?

by cloak'ndagger 23.06.15 19:44

Doug D wrote:Sorry, but I got the impression that ‘Stevo’ had conceded defeat, but he has posted this this afternoon on HideHo FB thread, 4 hours ago, so he clearly hasn't:

‪Steve Marsden I've been using the wayback machine for years. It's rock solid. Going back in to tweak this data is like fiddling the books. You're right ‪Carmel. There is too much data in the wayback machine to corroborate this find. If you look at all the news channels on 9/11 there is every website but also every video covering the entire day. Going back to tweak things is like falsifying evidence.
4 hrs · Like · 3

Steve has no conceded defeat but is dong further research to back up his claims and will post when he is satisfied that he has covered all angles. .

by HKP 23.06.15 20:10

Stevo's example (9/11) is relevant how?

by Smokin Gun 23.06.15 20:38

November 19, 2009

you ordered the kidnapping of Madeleine McCann after seeing her pictures shown to you three days before she was abducted on May 3, 2007

individuals working for a paedophile organisation in Belgium with presence in Portugal, after receiving her pictures as an attachment in an e-mail message sent from a computer located in Praia da Luz.

An Intelligence Agency war began

by Smokin Still 23.06.15 20:45

An observation I would like to make is the lack of reporting of this in mainstream media. When one considers how eager mainstream have been to report continually on their front pages in huge letters to millions of people, the slightest piece of unsubstantiated hearsay on the case. It really does demonstrate their modus operandi when they ignore a potentially game changing story like this. Whatever side of the fence you are on at this time - surely it is news?

@RDH
Are you being serious funnyshit

by XXXXXXXX 23.06.15 21:05

Is Stevo still a test pilot for Airfix?

I remember when he flew half way across the USA to measure a Wendy House to prove something.

by NickE 23.06.15 21:28

Tony Bennett wrote: Statement by the Chief Executive Officer of Wayback Machine

The CEOP Website

Statement released by the Chief Executive Officer of the Way Out Machine (formerly the Wayback Machine) at 0700 hours BST, 23 June 2015 (time and date subject to confirmation)

On 16 June 2015, a British citizen by the name of Stephen Marsden interrogated the Way Out Machine about the website of a British organisation, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP).

We returned to him the following information:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

On the above date (30 April 2007), a Mr Jim Gamble was the Director of CEOP.

The following day, a Miss Isabelle Mary McFadden sought to confirm that the information was accurate, and our former Office Manager, Christopher Butler, confirmed that this was so at 9.47am. He actually gave out two print-outs of the accompanying pages which had been crawled. Butler referred to, even boasted of, ‘several attorneys a week seeking our services'. He did so given our previous, fabled reputation for accuracy - which has been regularly relied on in court proceedings the world over and resulted in many persons being convicted and, on occasions, jailed.

Due to the timely intervention of a Ms Lizzie Taylor the same day, however, it suddenly dawned on Mr Butler that, on this occasion, the result returned to Mr Marsden was in error.

First of all, both timestamps on the record returned to Mr Marsden were plain wrong.

And the actual archive date for the ‘mccann html’ page was 31 July 2007, not 30 April 2007.

We apologise sincerely for having made this error which led to so many people wasting their precious time on pointless and sometimes angry debates on the internet.

So let me make these things crystal clear.

There never was a ‘mccann html’ page on the CEOP website on or before 30 April 2007.

It was clearly set up and live by the time it was archived on 31 July. But not on 30 April.

The two timestamps were errors.

Our web crawler clearly malfunctioned in a serious way and we are still working out why that happened, how to fix it, and how many other times it has malfunctioned in similar or other ways.

Until we are able to fully satisfy the internet authorities that we have permanently fixed this problem and corrected all the data on our system, they have directed us to re-title our business the ‘Way Out Machine’, giving a more accurate description of the current position of our archive.

Finally, it is unhelpful, ludicrous and very hurtful for posters like canada12 to keep insisting that we were correct after all. She wrote yesterday:

“Through all of these pages and pages of arguments and counter-arguments I'm afraid my initial assessment of the situation still stands. This was a genuine capture of an April 30 page that was not made public. There were going to be two photos but only one was in place. I believe the second photo had a placeholder in place, so that the second photo could be inserted when provided. There were links to pdf's of posters, which could also be uploaded when provided. Until I see something that convinces me otherwise, that's where my opinion lies. There was no error on WBM's part. It was accurate”.

It really is time that this sort of utter nonsense ceases. Of course we were wrong. Though we have never admitted it previously, of course we are always making errors.

It is of no assistance to us at all if people now keep insisting that our web crawler is right all the time. Plainly it is not. Any further insistence that our web crawler doesn’t make mistakes and that our time stamps are always correct may face legal action. Leave us alone until we find out what went wrong.

We thank you all for your patience and understanding. When we have fully sorted this, we will put out a statement. Following that, we will make an application to the internet authorities to allow us to revert to our previous name, the ‘Wayback Machine’.

In the meantime, find us on Twitter at the hashtag #WayOutMachine

Way Out CEO

Errors here and errors there, errors everywhere but "we are still working out why that happened, how to fix it".

They don't know anything about 'These errors', then it means that this is the first time in at least 8 years that anyone from around the world reports an error with a timestamp, and that timestamp error is 30 April 2007 and it belongs to CEOP and the McCanns.

Holy......

by **Tony Bennett** 23.06.15 21:29

XXXXXXXX wrote:@ Richard D. Hall Today at 6:19 pm

you mean like the MSM have ignored your vidoes that Mr Bennett says have had xzillion views?

Actually, no they haven't ignored them, because when Jenny Kleeman, who does freelance work for Murdoch's SKY News and the Guardian inter alia, heard about the success of Hall's videos, she:

* viewed them, later stating she found them 'interesting' and 'intriguing'

* pitched a possible documentary to the Guardian editor - and he liked the idea and said 'Go ahead'

* then e-mailed Richard Hall and asked if she could film at one of his meetings - he said 'No'

* then took herself and a cameraman up to Nottingham where Hall had one of his tour meetings, and talked to his followers on the street outside

* and went on to talk to several McCann-doubters about their views.

So, most definitely at least one MSM response to a McCann-doubting film - and how often have we had that in the last 8 years?

On a point of information, the total number of YouTube views his two YouTube films have had is now over 0.51million, or 510,000, and adding to that the number of views on his website, on blip tv and from sales of his videos, the total number of views can't be much less than a million by now.

And it's at least possible that the success of Hall's 'True Story of Madeleine McCann' may have triggered Sonia Poulton to go one better with her 'Untold Story of Madelene McCann'

by Guest 23.06.15 21:33

Sonia Poultons "Untold Story Of Madeleine McCann" remains just that.

by Phyllis Tyne 23.06.15 21:56

Well in response to RDH, I would say this recent turn of events reminds me of another of his pet subjects, namely Pons and Fleishman - albeit they did actually manage to get themselves into the MSM, for about ten minutes. After that the silence became deafening.

by Smokin Still 23.06.15 22:11

Icke has been telling us for years about Savile and all these sick perverted bastards in the big house. Please don't expect MSM to suddenly jump on this. They wont and never will.

by Nuala 23.06.15 22:16

@ Snook

I admit to being completely tech ignorant but I have to ask @nuala, if stuff on the Internet, ie pictures etc that you mention cannot be seen unless they have a link or hyperlink, how do security services spy? Surely anyone wishing to communicate, plot online would be able to do so undetected if I understand your comments?

Security services have lots of ways to spy, but Wayback Machine doesn't need or want to spy on anything not public, it's not designed to spy on anything not public, it's not interested smilie

by XXXXXXXX 23.06.15 22:36

"Tony Bennett Today at 9:29 pm

Actually, no they haven't ignored them, because when Jenny Kleeman, who does freelance work for Murdoch's SKY News and the Guardian inter alia, heard about the success of Hall's videos, she:

* viewed them, later stating she found them 'interesting' and 'intriguing'

* pitched a possible documentary to the Guardian editor - and he liked the idea and said 'Go ahead'

* then e-mailed Richard Hall and asked if she could film at one of his meetings - he said 'No'

* then took herself and a cameraman up to Nottingham where Hall had one of his tour meetings, and talked to his followers on the street outside

* and went on to talk to several McCann-doubters about their views."

Of course you have links/evidence to prove all that?

Are you saying that MSM (main stream media) means one person taking an interest (apparently - but unproven) that has never been published isn't "ignored"?

by **Tony Bennett** 23.06.15 22:57

XXXXXXXX wrote:"Tony Bennett Today at 9:29 pm

Actually, no they haven't ignored them, because when Jenny Kleeman, who does freelance work for Murdoch's SKY News and the Guardian inter alia, heard about the success of Hall's videos, she:

* viewed them, later stating she found them 'interesting' and 'intriguing'

* pitched a possible documentary to the Guardian editor - and he liked the idea and said 'Go ahead'

* then e-mailed Richard Hall and asked if she could film at one of his meetings - he said 'No'

* then took herself and a cameraman up to Nottingham where Hall had one of his tour meetings, and talked to his followers on the street outside

* and went on to talk to several McCann-doubters about their views."

Of course you have links/evidence to prove all that?

YES - it is all recorded here on this forum in many posts about Jenny Kleeman's proposed film

Are you saying that MSM (mainstream media) means one person taking an interest (apparently - but unproven) that has never been published isn't
"ignored"?

LISTEN - this thread is for members and guests to discuss the great debate about whether or not Wayback was accurate in capturing a 'mccann' html page on CEOP on 30 April 2007. Either discuss that - or go

by lj 23.06.15 23:10

Tony Bennett wrote: Statement by the Chief Executive Officer of Wayback Machine

The CEOP Website

Statement released by the Chief Executive Officer of the Way Out Machine (formerly the Wayback Machine) at 0700 hours BST, 23 June 2015 (time and date subject to confirmation)

On 16 June 2015, a British citizen by the name of Stephen Marsden interrogated the Way Out Machine about the website of a British organisation, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP).

We returned to him the following information:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

On the above date (30 April 2007), a Mr Jim Gamble was the Director of CEOP.

The following day, a Miss Isabelle Mary McFadden sought to confirm that the information was accurate, and our former Office Manager, Christopher Butler, confirmed that this was so at 9.47am. He actually gave out two print-outs of the accompanying pages which had been crawled. Butler referred to, even boasted of, ‘several attorneys a week seeking our services'. He did so given our previous, fabled reputation for accuracy - which has been regularly relied on in court proceedings the world over and resulted in many persons being convicted and, on occasions, jailed.

Due to the timely intervention of a Ms Lizzie Taylor the same day, however, it suddenly dawned on Mr Butler that, on this occasion, the result returned to Mr Marsden was in error.

First of all, both timestamps on the record returned to Mr Marsden were plain wrong.

And the actual archive date for the ‘mccann html’ page was 31 July 2007, not 30 April 2007.

We apologise sincerely for having made this error which led to so many people wasting their precious time on pointless and sometimes angry debates on the internet.

So let me make these things crystal clear.

There never was a ‘mccann html’ page on the CEOP website on or before 30 April 2007.

It was clearly set up and live by the time it was archived on 31 July. But not on 30 April.

The two timestamps were errors.

Our web crawler clearly malfunctioned in a serious way and we are still working out why that happened, how to fix it, and how many other times it has malfunctioned in similar or other ways.

Until we are able to fully satisfy the internet authorities that we have permanently fixed this problem and corrected all the data on our system, they have directed us to re-title our business the ‘Way Out Machine’, giving a more accurate description of the current position of our archive.

Finally, it is unhelpful, ludicrous and very hurtful for posters like canada12 to keep insisting that we were correct after all. She wrote yesterday:

“Through all of these pages and pages of arguments and counter-arguments I'm afraid my initial assessment of the situation still stands. This was a genuine capture of an April 30 page that was not made public. There were going to be two photos but only one was in place. I believe the second photo had a placeholder in place, so that the second photo could be inserted when provided. There were links to pdf's of posters, which could also be uploaded when provided. Until I see something that convinces me otherwise, that's where my opinion lies. There was no error on WBM's part. It was accurate”.

It really is time that this sort of utter nonsense ceases. Of course we were wrong. Though we have never admitted it previously, of course we are always making errors.

It is of no assistance to us at all if people now keep insisting that our web crawler is right all the time. Plainly it is not. Any further insistence that our web crawler doesn’t make mistakes and that our time stamps are always correct may face legal action. Leave us alone until we find out what went wrong.

We thank you all for your patience and understanding. When we have fully sorted this, we will put out a statement. Following that, we will make an application to the internet authorities to allow us to revert to our previous name, the ‘Wayback Machine’.

In the meantime, find us on Twitter at the hashtag #WayOutMachine

Way Out CEO

by Guest 23.06.15 23:12

"Tony Bennett Today at 10:57 pm
YES - it is all recorded here on this forum in many posts about Jenny Kleeman's proposed film

LISTEN - this thread is for members and guests to dicsuss the great debate about whether or not Wayback was accurate in capturing a 'mccann' html page on CEOP on 30 April 2007. Either discuss that - or go"

But Mr Bennett - all I did was comment on your comment on this very thread.

++++++++

But back on topic of this great thread, originated by something picked up by Stevo (someone not at all welcome on here by the way) - the conclusion is:

a) it was an error by WBW

b) It wasn't an error by WBM

c) It was invented by Stevo

d) no one has the foggiest idea but it was a good exercise

e) it was a complete waste of time.

by **Jill Havern** 23.06.15 23:14

There's no reason why Stevo couldn't come here to comment.

by XXXXXXXX 23.06.15 23:18

Get'emGonçalo Today at 11:14 pm
"There's no reason why Stevo couldn't come here to comment."

That would be interesting and the best thing to do.

by **Jill Havern** 23.06.15 23:20

XXXXXXXX wrote:Get'emGonçalo Today at 11:14 pm
"There's no reason why Stevo couldn't come here to comment."

That would be interesting and the best thing to do.

I told him on facebook about this thread so he knows it's here if he wants to comment.

by **Tony Bennett** 23.06.15 23:27

This letter to Mr Kahle, Director of Wayback, is for real.

I sent it by e-mail earlier this evening:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To Mr Brewster Kahle
Director
Wayback Machine

23 June 2015

I wrote to your Office Manager Mr Butler on 17 June asking him three questions about your apparent capture of a page on the site of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre at 11.58am on 30 April 2007.
This followed one email from Mr Butler (to Isabelle McFadden, 17 June, 9.47am) confirming that the capture was accurate and, moreover, attaching copies of what data were captured on that occasion.

The three questions I asked were:

1. Can you confirm when this page was first recognised and archived by your servers?
2. Can you also confirm what were the contents of the page read on that date?
3. Please can you provide the exact date and time?

He has not since replied, although in one of his three emails that day he did say that Wayback was investigating the matter.

I am asking these questions again because as you may now know the has been a great deal of interest about this 30 April ‘capture’ on a number of websites which closely follow the case of missing Madeleine McCann, since someone examined the Wayback Machine and apparently found a ‘mccann’ page on the CEOP site three days before Madeleine was reported missing.

On one Madeleine McCann forum, ‘The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann’, for example, there have in the past 7 days been over 26,000 views of threads discussing Mr Butler’s 3 contradictory e-mails. On another similar site, Madeleine McCann Mystery’, there have been a further 16,000 views. There will be many more until Wayback provides a convincing and conclusive explanation for Mr Butler’s contradictory e-mails on this matter .

There has been on these two sites (and elsewhere) much technical discussion. It can be summarised as follows.
Many suggest that your ‘capture’ was perfectly accurate and consistent with some of the possible scenarios in this as-yet-unsolved case. A typical such post was this:

“Through all of these pages and pages of arguments and counter-arguments I'm afraid my initial assessment of the situation still stands. This was a genuine capture of an April 30 page that was not made public. There were going to be two photos but only one was in place. I believe the second photo had a placeholder in place, so that the second photo could be inserted when provided. There were links to pdf's of posters, which could also be uploaded when provided. Until I see something that convinces me otherwise, that's where my opinion lies. There was no error on WBM's part. It was accurate”.

Others have come forward with a whole variety of different scenarios as to how an error might have occurred, if that is there ever was any error. These suggestions often conflict with each other and are fiercely contested amongst those who think there might have been an error.

I am not aware of any further e-mails or any statement yet by your company about the controversy raging about this capture on 30 April 2007. This must surely be of significant concern to you and many others as well. After all, as many have observed, if there was indeed an error affecting that ‘capture’ then:

* what kind of error was it,
* why did it happen,
* how many other similar errors have been made by Wayback
* and over what period of time?

Indeed someone asked the obvious question: Can we actually rely on Wayback any more?

Furthermore, concern has been expressed by some that they have reason to believe that you are not only trying to find out what the problem is (if any), but have been trying to ‘fix’ it and, even more worryingly, are altering the data you had captured. Some have observed that this amounts to the deliberate falsification of data. A further obvious concern is that if the 11.58am capture on 30 April is not correct, it is scarcely credible that only one fault, on this ‘mccann’ page, has been found. There must be others, and Wayback surely has a duty to its customers to fully explain the nature of any error.

If Wayback has any value, it must be accurate. Any errors must be fully explained: people have even been convicted of crimes on the apparent robustness of your data. If you have altered data in this case, how will anyone in future know whether the data they see on your website are the original data - or have been subject to all manner of amendment?

I should be glad therefore if you could please answer my queries or let me know when you will be in a position to make a full statement on this controversial issue.

Anthony Bennett

by MRNOODLES 23.06.15 23:47

lj wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote: Statement by the Chief Executive Officer of Wayback Machine

The CEOP Website

Statement released by the Chief Executive Officer of the Way Out Machine (formerly the Wayback Machine) at 0700 hours BST, 23 June 2015 (time and date subject to confirmation)

On 16 June 2015, a British citizen by the name of Stephen Marsden interrogated the Way Out Machine about the website of a British organisation, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP).

We returned to him the following information:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

On the above date (30 April 2007), a Mr Jim Gamble was the Director of CEOP.

The following day, a Miss Isabelle Mary McFadden sought to confirm that the information was accurate, and our former Office Manager, Christopher Butler, confirmed that this was so at 9.47am. He actually gave out two print-outs of the accompanying pages which had been crawled. Butler referred to, even boasted of, ‘several attorneys a week seeking our services'. He did so given our previous, fabled reputation for accuracy - which has been regularly relied on in court proceedings the world over and resulted in many persons being convicted and, on occasions, jailed.

Due to the timely intervention of a Ms Lizzie Taylor the same day, however, it suddenly dawned on Mr Butler that, on this occasion, the result returned to Mr Marsden was in error.

First of all, both timestamps on the record returned to Mr Marsden were plain wrong.

And the actual archive date for the ‘mccann html’ page was 31 July 2007, not 30 April 2007.

We apologise sincerely for having made this error which led to so many people wasting their precious time on pointless and sometimes angry debates on the internet.

So let me make these things crystal clear.

There never was a ‘mccann html’ page on the CEOP website on or before 30 April 2007.

It was clearly set up and live by the time it was archived on 31 July. But not on 30 April.

The two timestamps were errors.

Our web crawler clearly malfunctioned in a serious way and we are still working out why that happened, how to fix it, and how many other times it has malfunctioned in similar or other ways.

Until we are able to fully satisfy the internet authorities that we have permanently fixed this problem and corrected all the data on our system, they have directed us to re-title our business the ‘Way Out Machine’, giving a more accurate description of the current position of our archive.

Finally, it is unhelpful, ludicrous and very hurtful for posters like canada12 to keep insisting that we were correct after all. She wrote yesterday:

“Through all of these pages and pages of arguments and counter-arguments I'm afraid my initial assessment of the situation still stands. This was a genuine capture of an April 30 page that was not made public. There were going to be two photos but only one was in place. I believe the second photo had a placeholder in place, so that the second photo could be inserted when provided. There were links to pdf's of posters, which could also be uploaded when provided. Until I see something that convinces me otherwise, that's where my opinion lies. There was no error on WBM's part. It was accurate”.

It really is time that this sort of utter nonsense ceases. Of course we were wrong. Though we have never admitted it previously, of course we are always making errors.

It is of no assistance to us at all if people now keep insisting that our web crawler is right all the time. Plainly it is not. Any further insistence that our web crawler doesn’t make mistakes and that our time stamps are always correct may face legal action. Leave us alone until we find out what went wrong.

We thank you all for your patience and understanding. When we have fully sorted this, we will put out a statement. Following that, we will make an application to the internet authorities to allow us to revert to our previous name, the ‘Wayback Machine’.

In the meantime, find us on Twitter at the hashtag #WayOutMachine

Way Out CEO

Am I reading this right? We're allowed to say WBM is a complete lump of s**te, the worst piece of programming crud to hit the net but not the opposite?

by XXXXXXXX 23.06.15 23:52

"Mr Butler’s 3 contradictory e-mails"

I have seen 2 - one singed by Christopher, one singed by Chris - have I missed the third?

by **Tony Bennett** 23.06.15 23:57

XXXXXXXX wrote:"Mr Butler’s 3 contradictory e-mails"

I have seen 2 - one signed by Christopher, one signed by Chris - have I missed the third?

Yes you have - two to Isabelle McFadden, one to HideHo.

Now pay attentiion at the back there