Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

by Guest 15.11.14 19:20

Dee Coy wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:Well, due thanks to HelenMeg and chirpyinsect from MMM.

I have some observations and questions though.

It might be difficult to go back from forum to forum with queries, but if both forums have at their heart the will to research the truth about what happened to Madeleine McCann...well...where there's a will, there's a way.

It may have been easier if you'd left the link to the other place in my post, Tony.

I've put a link to here on t'other place so Chirpy can see your questions herself. I'll let you know if she responds.

The link doesn't work as it's in a private section so I removed it.

by **Tony Bennett** 15.11.14 19:31

admin wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:Well, due thanks to HelenMeg and chirpyinsect from MMM.

I have some observations and questions though.

It might be difficult to go back from forum to forum with queries, but if both forums have at their heart the will to research the truth about what happened to Madeleine McCann...well...where there's a will, there's a way.

It may have been easier if you'd left the link to the other place in my post, Tony.

I've put a link to here on t'other place so Chirpy can see your questions herself. I'll let you know if she responds.

The link doesn't work as it's in a private section so I removed it.

by Guest 15.11.14 19:34

admin wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:Well, due thanks to HelenMeg and chirpyinsect from MMM.

I have some observations and questions though.

It might be difficult to go back from forum to forum with queries, but if both forums have at their heart the will to research the truth about what happened to Madeleine McCann...well...where there's a will, there's a way.

It may have been easier if you'd left the link to the other place in my post, Tony.

I've put a link to here on t'other place so Chirpy can see your questions herself. I'll let you know if she responds.

The link doesn't work as it's in a private section so I removed it.

I see. Thanks for the clarification - apologies, Tony!

by Nina 15.11.14 20:25

Tony Bennett wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
PeterMac wrote:Are there any other photos of the little pool taken around that time does anyone know.
Hi PeterMac. Chirpyinsect on Candyfloss's forum has asked someone to post these pictures here for you. Also with thanks to Helenmeg. Chirpy has asked me to emphasise that it was the difference in the appearance of the plants she was highlighting:
chirpyinsect wrote:OK here goes.

Thanks to Helenmeg there exists a photo taken at the same pool as the last photo looking in almost the same direction too,
It is from a family who were there that very week and there is documented evidence of that.
Obviously I will not name them nor show their faces but both HM and I have seen the originals and can vouch for the veracity. I have her permission to post the evidence here.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

No flowers, bracts or colourful plants.
I think that should put that one to bed.

Well, due thanks to HelenMeg and chirpyinsect from MMM.

I have some observations and questions though.

It might be difficult to go back from forum to forum with queries, but if both forums have at their heart the will to research the truth about what happened to Madeleine McCann...well...where there's a will, there's a way.

1. We have no proof at this stage that these two photos were taken during the week the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were there.

2. If they were indeed taken by someone who was there that week, whoever it was would quite likely have met or at least seen the McCanns and the Tapas 7 there, and would no doubt be in possession of a great deal of useful information about e.g. the activities, the weather conditions and all sorts of other things that week

3. The person/family concerned might have, for example, a whole series of photos that week, which might tell us in more detail abou the development of the weather that week.

4. Did the person in question see Madeleine McCann that week?

NOW, assuming for a moment that those two pictures were taken during the period 28 April to 5 May 2007...

5. On which specific day were they taken, do we know?

6. Is the photo really taken in the same direction as the Last Photo was (appears to be) taken?

7. There is general agreement that on the Last Photo, Gerry, Amelie and Madeleine are positioned facing more or less due south. On the wall behind is a bougainvillea in flower. There are some other shrubs visible.

8. By contrast, I am fairly certain that the photos offered via HelenMeg are facing WEST - and that what we see in the background is the western wall of the play/pool area, i.e. the one that backs on to the Rua da 1 Maia which runs roughly NNW to SSE.

9. There are long shadows on the two photos HelenMeg has supplied. They appear to be consistent with the sun in the west, late afternoon, early evening.

10. I suggest that the photo is of the WEST wall of the pool, NOT the northern wall which of course is featured on the 'Last Photo'.

11. This is very important in relation to the bougainvilleas. The ones in the Last Photo face due south and naturally would bloom earlier than bougainvilleas on the WEST wall which faces EAST (or slightly north of east, actually). That is a perfectly natural explanation for the flowers on the 'Last Photo' to be in bloom but not the ones in the HelenMeg photos.

So what about chirpyinsect's somewhat triumphant conclusion:

"No flowers, bracts or colourful plants. I think that should put that one to bed"?

REPLY: CASE NOT PROVEN, chirpyinsect

Tony, bougainvillea is a strange old plant. I am surrounded by it and at the moment it is in full bloom as we have had drought conditions for months, though for two days now the first rains, so the bougainvillea will loose its splendid colour and just go green until the next drought when the coloured bracts appear again. It doesn't really matter which way it is facing, though it does need a certain number of sunshine hours per day to show the magnificent display. So, heat, sun for a good portion of the day, and drought, then the bracts will start to appear.
Was it like that prior to that week re the weather?

by **Tony Bennett** 15.11.14 21:10

Nina wrote:
Tony, bougainvillea is a strange old plant.

But very beautiful when in bloom

I am surrounded by it and at the moment it is in full bloom as we have had drought conditions for months,

You are fortunate, then

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

though for two days now the first rains, so the bougainvillea will lose its splendid colour and just go green until the next drought when the coloured bracts appear again. It doesn't really matter which way it is facing, though it does need a certain number of sunshine hours per day to show the magnificent display. So, heat, sun for a good portion of the day, and drought, then the bracts will start to appear. Was it like that prior to that week re the weather?

For a general view, I looked at the temperature records for a weather station at Faro

Apr
18 Max 21 (70)
19 Max 22 (72)
20 Max 19 (66)
21 Max 21 (70)
22 Max 22 (72)
23 Max 23 (73)
24 Max 24 (75)
25 Max 23 (73)
26 Max 22 (72)
27 Max 20 (68)
__________
28 Max 22 (72)
29 Max 22 (72)
30 Max 20 (68)
May
1 Max 18 (64)
2 Max 19 (66)
3 Max 20 (68)

Looking at the average temperatures for the time of year:

From 18-25 April most days were above or well above the average

From 26-29 April they were about average

From 30 April to 3 May they were below average.

It only rained on two days:

20th April 0.5mm (one fiftieth of an inch, or 0.02 inches)
25th April 3.0mm (one eighth of an inch, or 0.12 inches)

The trouble with the HelenMeg/chirpyinsect photos is that we have no way of knowing when they were taken. As it is said that they were taken during the week the McCanns were there, I am more than a tad surprised that she never mentioned that - and shared these photos - when she was with us.

All I was saying is that IF the two photos were taken that week, and IF they are of the WEST wall as I suspect, the bougainvilleas on the Last Photo would be likely to be more in bloom than the ones on the HelenMeg photos

by Liz Eagles 15.11.14 21:21

I had loads of bougainvillea around my house (in hindsight I wouldn't have planted it - it's a pain in the backside to keep it in check) and it all began to 'flower' at differing times depending on the position, the sun, the amount of water that was supplied to other plants around it and whether it had been cut back too severely etc.

I've seen some of the bougainvillea in my old garden spring to life as early as beginning of April - even when the weather was relatively cool because it was against a wall that got the sun for most of the day.

Nina is right, it's a funny old plant.

by Nina 15.11.14 21:22

Tony Bennett wrote:
Nina wrote:
Tony, bougainvillea is a strange old plant.

But very beautiful when in bloom

I am surrounded by it and at the moment it is in full bloom as we have had drought conditions for months,

You are fortunate, then

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

though for two days now the first rains, so the bougainvillea will lose its splendid colour and just go green until the next drought when the coloured bracts appear again. It doesn't really matter which way it is facing, though it does need a certain number of sunshine hours per day to show the magnificent display. So, heat, sun for a good portion of the day, and drought, then the bracts will start to appear. Was it like that prior to that week re the weather?

For a general view, I looked at the temperature records for a weather station at Faro

Apr
18 Max 21 (70)
19 Max 22 (72)
20 Max 19 (66)
21 Max 21 (70)
22 Max 22 (72)
23 Max 23 (73)
24 Max 24 (75)
25 Max 23 (73)
26 Max 22 (72)
27 Max 20 (68)
__________
28 Max 22 (72)
29 Max 22 (72)
30 Max 20 (68)
May
1 Max 18 (64)
2 Max 19 (66)
3 Max 20 (68)

Looking at the average temperatures for the time of year:

From 18-25 April most days were above or well above the average

From 26-29 April they were about average

From 30 April to 3 May they were below average.

It only rained on two days:

20th April 0.5mm (one fiftieth of an inch, or 0.02 inches)
25th April 3.0mm (one eighth of an inch, or 0.12 inches)

The trouble with the HelenMeg/chirpyinsect photos is that we have no way of knowing when they were taken. As it is said that they were taken during the week the McCanns were there, I am more than a tad surprised that she never mentioned that - and shared these photos - when she was with us.

All I was saying is that IF the two photos were taken that week, and IF they are of the WEST wall as I suspect, the bougainvilleas on the Last Photo would be likely to be more in bloom than the ones on the HelenMeg photos

Then those temperatures would encourage the show of colour. The picture you have posted is mostly made up with the purple strain, which is almost wild and grows everywhere, it is the other colours that are cultivated that are a bit temperamental.

by roy rovers 15.11.14 21:32

There was also a TV interview with somebody at the resort interviewed shortly after her disappearance where the bougainvillea on the wall in the background was not in flower. It was discussed on this forum a few years ago. Wasn't the same wall though as I recollect.

by Liz Eagles 15.11.14 21:38

roy rovers wrote:There was also a TV interview with somebody at the resort interviewed shortly after her disappearance where the bougainvillea on the wall in the background was not in flower. It was discussed on this forum a few years ago. Wasn't the same wall though as I recollect.

I remember that topic too and unless I'm going loopy (not to be discounted) I've seen HelenMeg's photos before on this forum. So much time passes and it's extremely difficult to locate and pull up an old topic but I can say that I've seen those photos before.

ETA: I think the topic was probably in 2011. I remember Nina and myself discussing bougainvillea on it.

by ultimaThule 15.11.14 21:54

A friend who was living near to Praia de Luz in 2007 told me it was unseasonably warm over the Easter weekend of April 7/8, Nina, which appears to be borne out by this chart [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It appears that the weather during first week of the McCanns' 3+ months sojourn in Portugal was somewhat cooler than the preceding weeks, but sitting in full sun on May 17 2007 was likely to have caused men to perspire and ladies to glow.

by bobbin 15.11.14 22:09

Tony Bennett wrote:
Nina wrote:
Tony, bougainvillea is a strange old plant.

But very beautiful when in bloom

I am surrounded by it and at the moment it is in full bloom as we have had drought conditions for months,

You are fortunate, then

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

though for two days now the first rains, so the bougainvillea will lose its splendid colour and just go green until the next drought when the coloured bracts appear again. It doesn't really matter which way it is facing, though it does need a certain number of sunshine hours per day to show the magnificent display. So, heat, sun for a good portion of the day, and drought, then the bracts will start to appear. Was it like that prior to that week re the weather?

For a general view, I looked at the temperature records for a weather station at Faro

Apr
18 Max 21 (70)
19 Max 22 (72)
20 Max 19 (66)
21 Max 21 (70)
22 Max 22 (72)
23 Max 23 (73)
24 Max 24 (75)
25 Max 23 (73)
26 Max 22 (72)
27 Max 20 (68)
__________
28 Max 22 (72)
29 Max 22 (72)
30 Max 20 (68)
May
1 Max 18 (64)
2 Max 19 (66)
3 Max 20 (68)

Looking at the average temperatures for the time of year:

From 18-25 April most days were above or well above the average

From 26-29 April they were about average

From 30 April to 3 May they were below average.

It only rained on two days:

20th April 0.5mm (one fiftieth of an inch, or 0.02 inches)
25th April 3.0mm (one eighth of an inch, or 0.12 inches)

The trouble with the HelenMeg/chirpyinsect photos is that we have no way of knowing when they were taken. As it is said that they were taken during the week the McCanns were there, I am more than a tad surprised that she never mentioned that - and shared these photos - when she was with us.

All I was saying is that IF the two photos were taken that week, and IF they are of the WEST wall as I suspect, the bougainvilleas on the Last Photo would be likely to be more in bloom than the ones on the HelenMeg photos

As I posted many times, and I'm sure you'll remember Tony, on a last photo/bougainvillea thread, botanical details which showed that bougainvillea only opens its bracts after several days of continual dry weather/drought and temperatures of at least 25 degrees concurrently.

Nina lives in bougainvillea territory, loves her flowers and garden, and knows full well what conditions are needed to make them come into full vibrant colour.

The 'playground' photo of Maddie, standing with a palm tree behind her, whilst she is wearing her pink trousers and long-sleeved jacket, shows the bougainvillea behind her to be at a very similar stage of development indeed to the photos posted above.

You don't need the dates, although proof would be helpful, since the temperature details you have kindly searched out and posted, countermand the botanical requirements for bougainvillea to burst its bracts open.

As Nina says, and as the botanical details which you will find anywhere on the net re bougainvillea, states that it needs dry and sunshine, and since the sun will have spent much of the day lighting and warming a westerly wall, acting like a sun-trap for much of the day, even retaining heat into the evening, the cold and or wet days preceding the McCann week and during the McC week will have prevented the bougainvillea from coming into open bract flower.

by **PeterMac** 15.11.14 22:15

I sense a spirit of cooperation here. united tin the quest to find the truth of what happened.

Assuming that the pole is the same thatched umbrella in the Last Photo, and accepting the the people's faces must be blanked out,
do those photos come round a bit further to the right ( their left) to roughly the position in which Madeleine is shown ?

Do they show this bit

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/img]

And do they have a reliable date ?

by bobbin 15.11.14 22:47

PeterMac wrote:I sense a spirit of cooperation here. united tin the quest to find the truth of what happened.

Assuming that the pole is the same thatched umbrella in the Last Photo, and accepting the the people's faces must be blanked out,
do those photos come round a bit further to the right ( their left) to roughly the position in which Madeleine is shown ?

Do they show this bit

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

And do they have a reliable date ?

A good point PeterMac and the shadows under the sun-lounger (bottom right) on the lower of the two pictures is not that different to that shown underneath the lounger in the pool photo above.

by Liz Eagles 15.11.14 22:52

bobbin wrote:
PeterMac wrote:I sense a spirit of cooperation here. united tin the quest to find the truth of what happened.

Assuming that the pole is the same thatched umbrella in the Last Photo, and accepting the the people's faces must be blanked out,
do those photos come round a bit further to the right ( their left) to roughly the position in which Madeleine is shown ?

Do they show this bit

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

And do they have a reliable date ?
A good point PeterMac and the shadows under the sun-lounger (bottom right) on the lower of the two pictures is not that different to that shown underneath the lounger in the pool photo above.

It's probably because the photo isn't photo-shopped, is authentic but has no provenance in terms of the date it was taken and on whose camera.

by canada12 15.11.14 23:05

PeterMac - chirpyinsect from the other forum wanted me to post this for you...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

PeterMac

This is a photo of GM on the 2nd anniversary of MBM`s disappearance from the documentary made by Edwards.
As you can see the bvil is in a similar state to 2007 same dates.
I would be willing to share the provenance of the photos I hold but not for posting on that forum. I will also share with you the names of the people involved.

by Liz Eagles 15.11.14 23:15

canada12 wrote:PeterMac - chirpyinsect from the other forum wanted me to post this for you...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

PeterMac

This is a photo of GM on the 2nd anniversary of MBM`s disappearance from the documentary made by Edwards.
As you can see the bvil is in a similar state to 2007 same dates.
I would be willing to share the provenance of the photos I hold but not for posting on that forum. I will also share with you the names of the people involved.

This cloak and dagger stuff really weighs heavy. If there is any information to share as to the provenance of any photograph that can help to find what happened to Madeleine it ought to be placed into the hands of the police first of all. If it hasn't why not?

If there is something to say about a photograph either spit it out or swallow it. Sending PM's to PeterMac and reporting from another forum by someone who wants things to be known 'covertly' but openly is really beyond comprehension (well to me anyway).

ETA: this smacks of getting someone to pass notes to the teacher from a naughty boy in school

God Help Madeleine.

by bobbin 15.11.14 23:25

aquila wrote:
canada12 wrote:PeterMac - chirpyinsect from the other forum wanted me to post this for you...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

PeterMac

This is a photo of GM on the 2nd anniversary of MBM`s disappearance from the documentary made by Edwards.
As you can see the bvil is in a similar state to 2007 same dates.
I would be willing to share the provenance of the photos I hold but not for posting on that forum. I will also share with you the names of the people involved.
This cloak and dagger stuff really weighs heavy. If there is any information to share as to the provenance of any photograph that can help to find what happened to Madeleine it ought to be placed into the hands of the police first of all. If it hasn't why not?

If there is something to say about a photograph either spit it out or swallow it. Sending PM's to PeterMac and reporting from another forum by someone who wants things to be known 'covertly' but openly is really beyond comprehension (well to me anyway).

I think we have to respect how people feel.
I personally am very grateful for these extra photos.
For one, the above picture helps me to understand the relative position of the tall wispy trees in the background.
With google maps, the above Gerry picture and the two new ones, it's pretty easy now to see exactly where the photos were taken and which bit of wall is included.

by Liz Eagles 15.11.14 23:31

bobbin wrote:
aquila wrote:
canada12 wrote:PeterMac - chirpyinsect from the other forum wanted me to post this for you...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

PeterMac

This is a photo of GM on the 2nd anniversary of MBM`s disappearance from the documentary made by Edwards.
As you can see the bvil is in a similar state to 2007 same dates.
I would be willing to share the provenance of the photos I hold but not for posting on that forum. I will also share with you the names of the people involved.
This cloak and dagger stuff really weighs heavy. If there is any information to share as to the provenance of any photograph that can help to find what happened to Madeleine it ought to be placed into the hands of the police first of all. If it hasn't why not?

If there is something to say about a photograph either spit it out or swallow it. Sending PM's to PeterMac and reporting from another forum by someone who wants things to be known 'covertly' but openly is really beyond comprehension (well to me anyway).
I think we have to respect how people feel.
I personally am very grateful for these extra photos.
For one, the above picture helps me to understand the relative position of the tall wispy trees in the background.
With google maps, the above Gerry picture and the two new ones, it's pretty easy now to see exactly where the photos were taken and which bit of wall is included.

I think we have to respect that this 'new and tantalizing information' wasn't presented on this forum by Anon357 during his/her stay and now we are into 'I've been asked to pass this message onto CMOMM' by others'.

I find this questionable. Don't you?

So, here it is, did Anon357/Chirpy Insect give this information to the police?

by **Tony Bennett** 15.11.14 23:33

bobbin wrote:
As I posted many times, and I'm sure you'll remember Tony, on a last photo/bougainvillea thread, botanical details which showed that bougainvillea only opens its bracts after several days of continual dry weather/drought and temperatures of at least 25 degrees concurrently.

Nina lives in bougainvillea territory, loves her flowers and garden, and knows full well what conditions are needed to make them come into full vibrant colour.

The 'playground' photo of Maddie, standing with a palm tree behind her, whilst she is wearing her pink trousers and long-sleeved jacket, shows the bougainvillea behind her to be at a very similar stage of development indeed to the photos posted above.

You don't need the dates, although proof would be helpful, since the temperature details you have kindly searched out and posted, countermand the botanical requirements for bougainvillea to burst its bracts open.

As Nina says, and as the botanical details which you will find anywhere on the net re bougainvillea, states that it needs dry and sunshine, and since the sun will have spent much of the day lighting and warming a westerly wall, acting like a sun-trap for much of the day, even retaining heat into the evening, the cold and or wet days preceding the McCann week and during the McC week will have prevented the bougainvillea from coming into open bract flower.

I am trying to understand your argument(s) about the bougainvillea being in flower on the Last Photo.

Please tell me if I've got this right or wrong. You say:

1. The bougainvillea being in flower proves that this photo was not taken any time that week (28 April to 5 May)

2. The bougainvillea can only flower like it is in the Last Photo if there's been a maximum daily temperature of at least 25C (77FC) for at least a week or two

3. In addition to the background for the photo being wrong (bougainvilleas come out later), people or parts of people have been shopped into the photo together with some other photoshopping adjustments.

I will just stick to the bougainvillea point and make these points in reply to your post above:

A. No, I never read the thread all about the bougainvillea. It was a theory too far for me, along with all the others

B. So I have not seen the botanical link where you say bougainvillea can only flower after several complestely dry days and a daily maximum of at least 25C/77F

C. Let's talk about north-, east-, west- and south-facing walls.

North-facing walls receive little direct sun.
South-facing walls get direct sun for most of the day
West-facing walls get direct sun only for the second half of the day
East-facing walls get direct sun only for the first half of the day.

The Last Photo wall (and the people in it) are south-facing.

The wall which is featured in the HelenMeg/chirpyinsect photos seems to be the east-facing wall - and thus only gets the cooler, morning sunshine (the west-facing wall gets the benefit of the warmer afternoon sun).

In terms, then, the south-facing wall has a significant advantage over the east-facing wall. It gets twice as much direct sunshine.

So you would expect the bracts on the south-facing wall to bloom first.

D. Now let's address the temperatures/rainfall in, say, the 12-day period 18 to 29 April (Faro records).

The temperatures were above average throughout: 22C (72F) or above on eight of those 12 days.

Only two days had rain: 0.14 inches, or one-seventh of an inch. A sharp Mediterranean shower lasting an hour would probably account for that.

Basically all the criteria for bougainvillea bract growth that you specify are met - except that the daily maximums have mostly been between 22-24C (72-75F), a tad below your 'target'.

I have not seen your source about bougainvilleas requiring continuous maxima of 25C/77F every day for several days, but I am doubtful.

But even if you are right, have you considered this: that the microclimate of a sun trap - such as there is low down on the south-facing wall - might well have produced daily maxima of at least 25C/77F throughout the period 18 to 29 April?

E. I did a search of about 10 sites dealing with the growing and flowering of bougainvilleas. All mentioned the need for a dry spell and a lot of direct sunlight, but none insisted on continuous maxima of 25C or more.

I visited this site: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here are the specific points relating to weather that people have made on that forum about the conditions for bougainvillea flowering:

* they need heat and sun...let it dry out between waterings a little... then let it dry out a LOT during the winter.
* Bougainvillea goes nuts the drier it is. (Once established, of course).
* bougainvillea's bloom during dry periods. Here we get a few blooms during the wet period
* Last year it was really dry in the summer where I live in Louisiana and of course they started blooming like crazy in the fall after I started to water them a lot.
* make sure you keep it fairly dry, even to wilting stage, before watering again and give it lots of heat and sun!

Not one of the commenters on that page say the temperature must be at least 25C during the day. What they do all emphasise is that there must be a long dry period. And April 2007 was dry.

Summary:

You've not convinced me, bobbin

by **Tony Bennett** 15.11.14 23:40

aquila wrote:
This cloak and dagger stuff really weighs heavy. If there is any information to share as to the provenance of any photograph that can help to find what happened to Madeleine it ought to be placed into the hands of the police first of all. If it hasn't why not?

If there is something to say about a photograph either spit it out or swallow it. Sending PM's to PeterMac and reporting from another forum by someone who wants things to be known 'covertly' but openly is really beyond comprehension (well to me anyway).

ETA: this smacks of getting someone to pass notes to the teacher from a naughty boy in school

God Help Madeleine.

Not only that, but 'chirpyinsect' and/or 'HelenMeg' seem to have remarkably good sources:

1. Photos taken by a family staying in Praia da Luz the very week the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were there

and now

2. A person who's trusted enough to take a close-up of Gerry Mcann just a few feet away while he's walking around the Ocean Club on his own, no-one else in sight.

A couple of people very 'close' to the McCanns, maybe? The photo of Gerry is credited to 'PA' = Press Association. Maybe either chirpyinsect or HelenMeg work for the Press Association? Or are married to someone who is?

by plebgate 15.11.14 23:49

I agree with Aquila's last two posts.

How very melodramatic it all is - boring in my terms.

Why not just post any pics. they have and let us all know if they have been handed into the police?

So and so wants me to post this, that and the other on this site - oh please -why doesn't chirpy insect register and post it and answer any questions here?

by canada12 15.11.14 23:54

Tony Bennett wrote:
2. A person who's trusted enough to take a close-up of Gerry Mcann just a few feet away while he's walking around the Ocean Club on his own, no-one else in sight.

A couple of people very 'close' to the McCanns, maybe? The photo of Gerry is credited to 'PA' = Press Association. Maybe either chirpyinsect or HelenMeg work for the Press Association? Or are married to someone who is?

Please don't shoot the messenger... I was only delivering a message from The Other Side... smilie

The picture you're referring to is, I believe, a screencap from a documentary by someone called Edwards, done two years after Madeleine disappeared.
PS - I won't be a messenger anymore, since it seems to cause upset.

by **Tony Bennett** 16.11.14 0:10

canada12 wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
2. A person who's trusted enough to take a close-up of Gerry Mcann just a few feet away while he's walking around the Ocean Club on his own, no-one else in sight.

A couple of people very 'close' to the McCanns, maybe? The photo of Gerry is credited to 'PA' = Press Association. Maybe either chirpyinsect or HelenMeg work for the Press Association? Or are married to someone who is?

Please don't shoot the messenger... I was only delivering a message from The Other Side...

Thank you. But aquila is right - it hardly needed all the melodramatic secrecy, 'I will tell you but not here and not there' etc. to say what you've just said, namely:

"It's a Press Association photo from a documentary made by Edwards"

by canada12 16.11.14 0:12

Tony Bennett wrote:
canada12 wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
2. A person who's trusted enough to take a close-up of Gerry Mcann just a few feet away while he's walking around the Ocean Club on his own, no-one else in sight.

A couple of people very 'close' to the McCanns, maybe? The photo of Gerry is credited to 'PA' = Press Association. Maybe either chirpyinsect or HelenMeg work for the Press Association? Or are married to someone who is?

Please don't shoot the messenger... I was only delivering a message from The Other Side...
Thank you. But aquila is right - it hardly needed all the melodramatic secrecy, 'I will tell you but not here and not there' etc. to say what you've just said, namely:

"It's a Press Association photo from a documentary made by Edwards"

I just copied and pasted what I was asked to relay, Tony smilie

Didn't honestly mean to contribute to cloak and daggering smilie

by Guest 16.11.14 0:38

Tony Bennett wrote:Thank you. But aquila is right - it hardly needed all the melodramatic secrecy, 'I will tell you but not here and not there' etc. to say what you've just said, namely:

"It's a Press Association photo from a documentary made by Edwards"

She did:

chirpyinsect wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

PeterMac

This is a photo of GM on the 2nd anniversary of MBM`s disappearance from the documentary made by Edwards.
As you can see the bvil is in a similar state to 2007 same dates.
I would be willing to share the provenance of the photos I hold but not for posting on that forum. I will also share with you the names of the people involved.

I'm sorry people think this is sinister.

It's really quite simple.

PeterMac wondered if any other photos had been taken of the the small pool area that week. Chirpyinsect saw that and, having discussed that very thing with Helenmeg a few days ago thought she could help.

She is particularly interested in the discrepancies in the blooming of the plants on the pictures she has seen to that on the Last Photo. She also noted that in the documentary filmed at the same time of year on the second anniversary of the disappearance, the plants around the pool once again showed the same paucity of bloom.

As a banned ex-member unable to post, she asked if members of both forums could show her findings to PeterMac.

And that's it, really.

Surely, as Tony said, in the interests of finding Madeleine's truth, thanks should be given where due and communication issues overcome where necessary:

Tony Bennett wrote:Well, due thanks to HelenMeg and chirpyinsect from MMM.

I have some observations and questions though.

It might be difficult to go back from forum to forum with queries, but if both forums have at their heart the will to research the truth about what happened to Madeleine McCann...well...where there's a will, there's a way.

...with which I fully concur. Who wouldn't?