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Analyzing position of sun in last photo

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by plebgate on 16.11.14 0:52

Were the observations and questions asked by Tony answered?

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by aquila on 16.11.14 1:25

@canada12 wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@canada12 wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
2. A person who's trusted enough to take a close-up of Gerry Mcann just a few feet away while he's walking around the Ocean Club on his own, no-one else in sight.

A couple of people very 'close' to the McCanns, maybe? The photo of Gerry is credited to 'PA' = Press Association. Maybe either chirpyinsect or HelenMeg work for the Press Association? Or are married to someone who is?

Please don't shoot the messenger... I was only delivering a message from The Other Side... smilie
Thank you. But aquila is right - it hardly needed all the melodramatic secrecy, 'I will tell you but not here and not there' etc. to say what you've just said, namely:

"It's a Press Association photo from a documentary made by Edwards"

I just copied and pasted what I was asked to relay, Tony smilie

Didn't honestly mean to contribute to cloak and daggering smilie
The other side?

I only know one side. That's the side of what happened to Madeleine.

As for the childish postings of between two forums you know where you can put that Canada12. Those photos could have been posted by you without comment from what you term as 'the other side'.

Grow up.

I apologize to the forum for my lack of patience.
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by canada12 on 16.11.14 2:23

@aquila wrote:
@canada12 wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@canada12 wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
2. A person who's trusted enough to take a close-up of Gerry Mcann just a few feet away while he's walking around the Ocean Club on his own, no-one else in sight.

A couple of people very 'close' to the McCanns, maybe? The photo of Gerry is credited to 'PA' = Press Association. Maybe either chirpyinsect or HelenMeg work for the Press Association? Or are married to someone who is?

Please don't shoot the messenger... I was only delivering a message from The Other Side... smilie
Thank you. But aquila is right - it hardly needed all the melodramatic secrecy, 'I will tell you but not here and not there' etc. to say what you've just said, namely:

"It's a Press Association photo from a documentary made by Edwards"

I just copied and pasted what I was asked to relay, Tony smilie

Didn't honestly mean to contribute to cloak and daggering smilie
The other side?

I only know one side. That's the side of what happened to Madeleine.

As for the childish postings of between two forums you know where you can put that Canada12. Those photos could have been posted by you without comment from what you term as 'the other side'.

Grow up.

I apologize to the forum for my lack of patience.

Oh dear.
By The Other Side, I obviously meant "the other forum", which has come under a good deal of criticism lately. I'll be more careful with my use of words in future. I was being facetious, but the humorous tone in my posting seems to have been missed.

By the way, I'm in my 60's and well past the childish stage. Telling me to grow up, and telling me "where I can put it" have no effect on me, thankfully.

Good night, and I'm sorry you've lost your patience.

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by Google.Gaspar.Statements on 16.11.14 6:48

@canada12 wrote:By The Other Side, I obviously meant "the other forum", which has come under a good deal of criticism lately.

boohoo  That would be the 'the other forum' that has persistently attacked this one, and still does, which is why that forum even exists?

Criticism? Please don't portray that forum as the 'Hard-Done-By' forum. It is the members over there that were responsible for the division of this one! And I've seen the thread where chirpyinsect/Andrew/Travis are posting and it's full of abuse and criticism for people on this forum that they call a 'cesspit'.  Even people who are still members here are being derisive of this forum over there. And the mods over there are allowing it to happen.

I've been told that the mods over there won't even promote the petition that calls for an Enquiry into Madeleine's disappearance because they are upset!

That forum is NOT about Madeleine and it never was. It was set up to mock and attack this one and for no other reason.
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by bobbin on 16.11.14 8:27

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@canada12 wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
2. A person who's trusted enough to take a close-up of Gerry Mcann just a few feet away while he's walking around the Ocean Club on his own, no-one else in sight.

A couple of people very 'close' to the McCanns, maybe? The photo of Gerry is credited to 'PA' = Press Association. Maybe either chirpyinsect or HelenMeg work for the Press Association? Or are married to someone who is?

Please don't shoot the messenger... I was only delivering a message from The Other Side... smilie
Thank you. But aquila is right - it hardly needed all the melodramatic secrecy, 'I will tell you but not here and not there' etc. to say what you've just said, namely:

"It's a Press Association photo from a documentary made by Edwards"
It's this sort of attitude that makes it impossible to have a decent dialogue.
Tony, you continue with your diatribes and I will go where others have gone, to have reasonable and polite, and furthermore, UNDEMANDING, exchanges.
It's as if you have set the 'messenger' up on trial, decided that s/he is guilty of not sharing full information with what, regardless of the time someone has been posting, may well be enemies in the camp, and for their 'guilt of melodramatic secrecy' must be castigated and become the source of pure speculation as to whether they are, or are married to, someone in the press.
What right do you have to treat a volunteer poster as such, and how does your driving people away get any closer to finding out what happened to Madeleine. Many good posters have left this forum. I doubt you will seek to ask yourself why.
This time I am leaving and will be going elsewhere where I believe the research and dialogue is exchanged in a more considerate manner.

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by Guest on 16.11.14 8:44

Bobbin, shame you've decided to leave.  I'll miss your posts which are always interesting and informative.  Best wishes.

I'm not really happy about messages being sent here with photos.  I agree with GGS about the abuse and criticism (now publicly hidden) that seems to be what many are there for.  As for chirpyinsect, formerly anon357 here, I don't believe anything that individual posts.

I'm here to find out what happended to MBM.
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.14 8:50

@plebgate wrote:Were the observations and questions asked by Tony answered?
Er, no, plebgate, they haven't been.

'chirpyinsect' (one of those banned from here, who used another username) has contrived to place two photos on this forum, taken by someone apparently known to former member HelenMeg, making these bold claims about it:

1. That it was taken in the very week that the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were staying at the Ocean Club and

2. That it was of the same wall as we see in the Last Photo.

There are no colourful bougainvillea bracts on the photos we saw.

The photos we were presented with were meant to tell us that it was impossible for the Last Photo to have been taken that week - because there are colourful bracts on the bougainvillea.

Indeed, chirpyinsect was rather exultant about it, saying: "No flowers, bracts or colourful plants. I think that should put that one to bed".

It was tantamount to telling this forum: "There you are, I've proved that photo wasn't taken that week and must have been photoshopped".

In a sprit of co-operation I thanked those who who had brought the photos over from candyfloss's forum: Dee Coy, chirpyinsect amnd HelenMeg - and I invited further dialogue.

In a sprit of enquiry for which this forum is well known, I asked many questions about the two photos, set out again below.


TONY'S OBSERVATIONS AND QUESTIONS ON THE TWO 'HELENMEG PHOTOS', SET OUT ONCE AGAIN:


Well, due thanks to HelenMeg and chirpyinsect from MMM.

I have some observations and questions though.

It might be difficult to go back from forum to forum with queries, but if both forums have at their heart the will to research the truth about what happened to Madeleine McCann...well...where there's a will, there's a way.

1. We have no proof at this stage that these two photos were taken during the week the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were there.

2. If they were indeed taken by someone who was there that week, whoever it was would quite likely have met or at least seen the McCanns and the Tapas 7 there, and would no doubt be in possession of a great deal of useful information about e.g. the activities, the weather conditions and all sorts of other things that week

3. The person/family concerned might have, for example, a whole series of photos that week, which might tell us in more detail abou the development of the weather that week.

4. Did the person in question see Madeleine McCann that week?

NOW, assuming for a moment that those two pictures were taken during the period 28 April to 5 May 2007...

5. On which specific day were they taken, do we know?

6. Is the photo really taken in the same direction as the Last Photo was (appears to be) taken?

7. There is general agreement that on the Last Photo, Gerry, Amelie and Madeleine are positioned facing more or less due south. On the wall behind is a bougainvillea in flower. There are some other shrubs visible.

8. By contrast, I am fairly certain that the photos offered via HelenMeg are facing WEST - and that what we see in the background is the western wall of the play/pool area, i.e. the one that backs on to the Rua da 1 Maia which runs roughly NNW to SSE.

9. There are long shadows on the two photos HelenMeg has supplied. They appear to be consistent with the sun in the west, late afternoon, early evening.

10. I suggest that the photo is of the WEST wall of the pool, NOT the northern wall which of course is featured on the 'Last Photo'.

11. This is very important in relation to the bougainvilleas. The ones in the Last Photo face due south and naturally would bloom earlier than bougainvilleas on the WEST wall which faces EAST (or slightly north of east, actually). That is a perfectly natural explanation for the flowers on the 'Last Photo' to be in bloom but not the ones in the HelenMeg photos.



I would add, finally, that it is NOT helpful to have photos presented as helping us get to the truth when we get limited, and perhaps misleading, information about their provenance and what they purport to represent.

And if HelenMeg had access to these photos all along, how come they suddenly appear with a week of her leaving here after criticising us and making accusations that a member here works for Team McCann?

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by plebgate on 16.11.14 8:51

@Google.Gaspar.Statements wrote:
@canada12 wrote:By The Other Side, I obviously meant "the other forum", which has come under a good deal of criticism lately.

boohoo  That would be the 'the other forum' that has persistently attacked this one, and still does, which is why that forum even exists?

Criticism? Please don't portray that forum as the 'Hard-Done-By' forum. It is the members over there that were responsible for the division of this one! And I've seen the thread where chirpyinsect/Andrew/Travis are posting and it's full of abuse and criticism for people on this forum that they call a 'cesspit'.  Even people who are still members here are being derisive of this forum over there. And the mods over there are allowing it to happen.

I've been told that the mods over there won't even promote the petition that calls for an Enquiry into Madeleine's disappearance because they are upset!  

That forum is NOT about Madeleine and it never was. It was set up to mock and attack this one and for no other reason.
Well said.

If the poster who requested the photos be posted on this site has been banned from here I would like to know whether they had these photos and info. in their possession before they were banned.   If so, why not post them before now.

Disruption tactics are being used imo and maybe the people who are being asked to do this, that and t'other are naive, but my motto is if someone wants something like this done, then they can do it themselves.   If that is not possible then drop it.

Let's be fair, none of the info. passed to this site has been verified as being correct despite Tony asking.   Deffo disruption imo.

As I said before, I am sorry bobbin is going, but from what I gather and not having visited this new site, I am sure she will be sorry she left here to join a site that is clearly allowing tasteless and muck stirring comments.   
 
We still do not know whether the photos have been handed into the police.

We will probably know if this was a genuine attempt to get us nearer the truth about Madeleine, or disruption, by whether or not Tony's questions are ever answered.

In the meantime, discussion about candyfloss's forum is off-topic so please stick to the topic which is:  ANALYSING THE LAST PHOTO - admin

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Bougainvillea

Post by PeterMac on 16.11.14 10:05

I think we need to be very careful about bougainvillea
These photos were taken three minutes ago. 11:02, 16/11/14
Outside temp 10º,  min over the last couple of weeks 6º
The cultivar not doing well,  the "wild" one still OK.
" />
" />

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by aquila on 16.11.14 11:01

@PeterMac wrote:I think we need to be very careful about bougainvillea
These photos were taken three minutes ago.  11:02, 16/11/14
Outside temp 10º,  min over the last couple of weeks 6º
The cultivar not doing well,  the "wild" one still OK.
" />
" />
None of the bougainvillea in bloom info gives much credence to the authenticity of last photo imo.

I've read all the debate which ranges from plant life to looking at miniscule things such as Madeleine's ears and it doesn't make much sense to me.

I always come back to motive. What would be gained by photoshopping the last photo as opposed to what would be gained by altering the exif data.

Is there much point in doing both? I don't think so but that's only my opinion. For me it's much simpler to use an authentic photograph and change the date which always brings me back to three basic things:

1. Who took the photo and on what day?

2. On whose camera was that photo taken?

3. Why was it released so very late after Madeleine's disappearance when the world's press was ready to rock and roll with anything that could be helpful in finding her?

I'm always in awe at the level of knowledge and research and the many hours people put in to finding truth for Madeleine.
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by HiDeHo on 16.11.14 13:12

@aiyoyo wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
It could well have been taken on the day of arrival, .

My point was that even on their own admission it would have been 4pm before they got down to the pool to meet all the others, and more probably 4.30
The sun is clearly high in the sky - on any test,  - and incidentally where are all the others. Where is the Group Photo ? "Here is us on the first day . . ."

It is indicators like this that force me towards Sunday 29th

The others could be at the children-induction session for one thing, or they could be in the pool/playground general vicinity exploring the area (not necessary parked at the pool like the Mcs).

The last photo appears to be one of 'sit by the pool to pose for a quick (sort of family) photo for memento sake' (just to show the family had been on holiday); and not one capturing them in the midst of pool /swimming activity.

Could well be sunday, April 30th.  But day of arrival is also appropriate taking in the circumstantial and taken in HDH analysis of clothing items.

Please note that I compiled that thread in May of 2010.  Prior to getting the events of Saturday in place





I have since done some of my own research....not as involved as this thread, but enough that I feel confident that it was taken earlier (probably Sunday) and when I became aware of PeterMac research I felt validated.

Sunday lunchtime was, in my opinion, the last credible sighting of Madeleine by the cleaner's daughter and she saw Madeleine in a skirt (the shorts appear like a skirt maybe?  The discrepancies started on Tuesday so I believe something happened after Sunday lunchtime and before Tuesday morning.

The playground pics may have been taken on Saturday but I would like to clarify that (as can be seen in the above video) the timeframe of their arrival does not coincide with time by the pool at that time of day  (and not for being in the pool either as Kate claims in her book)

I am just reading through the 39 pages before I add a few more comments and photos from my own research on the shadows and timing.

May I just add that my research was directed more to trying to understand the need to add the hour and to see whether it was taken at 1.29 (on whatever day it was taken) but needed to be shown to be 2.29pm on Thursday to 'fit' with the activities.


Thank you PeterMac and HiDeHo for all your hard work and many contributions to unravelling this great mystery - and how encouraging it is to see your different strands of research coming so close together here - admin
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 16.11.14 14:18

Yes HiDeho thanks sincerely to you and PM, and also to TB and Bluebag.

The arguments set out in the various threads, along with GM's pale skin, strongly suggests Sunday 29th.

Should it be proved that this was taken on the 29th (i.e not on the 3rd), its game over. IMO the unprecedented ferocity of the debate regarding this issue demonstrates how close you are getting to the truth.

IMO of course
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by HiDeHo on 16.11.14 15:13

I started a thread inmy aimoo forum about 2 1/2 years ago which may give a little more input to this thread.  Nothing scientific, just my own ramblings and approximations. Interesting that diferent member can use totally different research and yet still come up with similar 'results'  winkwink


Title: Sun direction in the Last Picture
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/The-Last-Picture/RE-Sun-direction-in-the-Last-Picture-1-1055802.html


I will add some of the pics here...One interesting one is the view of the sun from the pool (I believe where the depth sign was) at 1.30pm.  I was taken around February (before time change) I can access the exact date if that would be helpful.





I believe Amelie was sitting on the depth sign which was centre to the pathway leading towards the pool.

I don't know if any of my random research is viable but at least you have a few new pics to study big grin





































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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by __marla__ on 16.11.14 15:17

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Yes HiDeho thanks sincerely to you and PM, and also to TB and Bluebag.

The arguments set out in the various threads, along with GM's pale skin, strongly suggests Sunday 29th.

Should it be proved that this was taken on the 29th (i.e not on the 3rd), its game over. IMO the unprecedented ferocity of the debate regarding this issue demonstrates how close you are getting to the truth.

IMO of course
goodpost
 Adding my thanks also. The fuss about photoshopping is supposed to distract us from the timing cos the timing is the key.

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by PeterMac on 16.11.14 15:40

Talking of which, does anyone have the EXIF date for this one
[img][/img]

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 16.11.14 15:49

Using a online Exif/Metadata reader the date/time listed is February 19th 2007 22:13:43 Peter.

Don't know how accurate that would be. Would really need the original image and a expert to confirm.
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by HiDeHo on 16.11.14 15:51

@__marla__ wrote:
@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Yes HiDeho thanks sincerely to you and PM, and also to TB and Bluebag.

The arguments set out in the various threads, along with GM's pale skin, strongly suggests Sunday 29th.

Should it be proved that this was taken on the 29th (i.e not on the 3rd), its game over. IMO the unprecedented ferocity of the debate regarding this issue demonstrates how close you are getting to the truth.

IMO of course
goodpost
 Adding my thanks also. The fuss about photoshopping is supposed to distract us from the timing cos the timing is the key.
I think its important to remember that when someone has taken a lot of time and research, looking for photoshopping, it has to be very hard to put it aside and change opinions.  It may not always be about derailing.

As I think Petermac has been trying to say, ultimately it is not about whether it is photoshopped or taken a different day...or indeed BOTH, its about the REASON behind it and the resulting repercussions if ever it was proven to not be a valid photo.

Was it taken at 1.29pm or 2.29pm?
Is the location of the subjects confirmed? (I have always thought it was closer to the wall than I have since recognised.)
Does the timing of the photo 'fit' with their activities at that time?
What would be the purpose of claiming it to be Thursday 3rd if it was taken earlier?

I think most of us are in agreement that it was faked in some way and looking at the confirmation to the above questions and more, may help resolve and identify what happened.
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by j.rob on 16.11.14 16:11

I think most of us are in agreement that it was faked in some way and looking at the confirmation to the above questions and more, may help resolve and identify what happened.




------


Yes. And why would Gerry's hair look so different given that the 'last photo' was allegedly taken on Thursday. (Although even if it had been taken earlier in the week, I still don't think it could have changed that much in the space of a few days without a haircut and what looks like a hair dye as well. And if Gerry HAD dyed his hair between the time that the 'last photo' was taken - whenever it was taken - and the time of the press conference, then that begs the question of WHY? 


Kate's alleged account of the truth in her book makes no mention of Gerry visiting a hairdresser that week. Or any mention of his cutting his hair. 


To my eyes, at least, the difference in Gerry's hairstyle and hair colour from supposedly one day to the next proves to me that we are not being told the truth about the 'last photo'. There are a great many other red flags, to me. But the hair styles and then the difference in his skin colour are real clinchers, to me.


I accept that at that time of year the sun is very high and can be very intense. So potentially Gerry could have tanned quite quickly. But why was he still so pale on Thursday after lunch? If he has the type of skin that tans easily, then, given that it had been sunny on several days earlier in the week, and given that he had been taking part in tennis and other outdoor activities during the week, you would have expected him to have built up a bit of a tan by Thursday lunch-time. 


I just find it very hard to accept that his skin colour could have changed that much from one day to the next. Given that Thursday was only intermittently sunny. The tan shown on his skin on Friday is one that looks as though it has developed over quite a few days - probably as long as a week. Which would be consistent with having spent the week at Ocean Club.


There may be some mileage in the bougainvillea being too much in bloom in the alleged 'last photo'. Although it would be a pretty dumb mistake to make. But then the whole photo looks fake to me so nothing would surprise me.


And there is no escaping from the FACT that it took THREE WHOLE WEEKS for this photo to appear. And it only appeared after Gerry had returned to the UK.


Highly suspicious, imo. 

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by juliet on 16.11.14 16:18

It is typical of the forum at present that those who believe the last photo was photoshopped are smugly labelled disruptors. For my part I find this new obsession by some with the "change of date" baffling.
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by juliet on 16.11.14 16:33

Is it a fact that Gerry dyes his hair because it's ginger? The only boyhood pic of him shows a very ginger kid. But that would go with a pale freckly skin that doesn't tan well.
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by j.rob on 16.11.14 16:46

@__marla__ wrote:
@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Yes HiDeho thanks sincerely to you and PM, and also to TB and Bluebag.

The arguments set out in the various threads, along with GM's pale skin, strongly suggests Sunday 29th.

Should it be proved that this was taken on the 29th (i.e not on the 3rd), its game over. IMO the unprecedented ferocity of the debate regarding this issue demonstrates how close you are getting to the truth.

IMO of course
goodpost
 Adding my thanks also. The fuss about photoshopping is supposed to distract us from the timing cos the timing is the key.


There is no reason at all why the last photo - and indeed other photos released by the McCanns (eg: the tennis ball photo) - could not have  BOTH been taken a times that are different to when they were supposed to have been taken AND have been photo-shopped.

Even if the timing is ONE of the keys it doesn't mean that potential photo-shopping of photos isn't also another potential key. The two are not mutually exclusive. People who are prepared to be deceptive to the extent of lying about when a photo was taken are more likely to also lie about other important things. Such as who was or was not in a particular place at a particular time with particular people. By photo-shopping one or more people into a photo allegedly taken at a certain place at a certain time you can try to 'prove' that people were in places that they weren't. At times that they weren't. 

In other words, you can be deceptive about what really happened to Madeleine that week at Ocean Club.

If the McCanns are being deceptive about the times that photos were taken (and Kate gives prominence to when both the tennis ball photo and the 'final photo' were taken in her book, which makes me think that timings of these photos are hot potatoes) then why would they necessarily be honest in terms of the 'content' of the photos?

IMO Gerry, Kate, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie were NOT relaxing around the toddler pool at Ocean Club at lunch-time on Thursday 3rd May. They were somewhere else. So the alleged timing of the photo has been faked in order to provide an alibi for Gerry and Kate for Thursday lunch-time. And to try to 'prove' that Madeleine and indeed the whole family were having a lovely time at Ocean Club on Thursday during the day. And enjoying family time together.

When that was not the case.

It is of course possible that the 'last photo' is not photo-shopped but was a genuine photo but taken earlier in the week. That would certainly account for why Gerry's complexion is much paler. And could possibly account for the difference in his hair style, I suppose. And would be consistent with the sunnier weather on Saturday or Sunday, for instance.

But I have a suspicion that there were NO happy family photos from that week at Ocean Club. No happy family photos showing Madeleine with either of her parents or with the twins playing at the Ocean Club.

Why would that be?

Two possible reasons spring to mind for me. (And they are not mutually exclusive.)

1. The parents did not want any up-to-date photos of Madeleine. This might be because they had pre-planned the abduction and didn't want anyone to know what she looked like, for instance. They wanted there to be 'confusion'. And they wanted to be deceptive about Madeleine's whereabouts and movements that week. And genuine photos could have been incriminating in terms of exactly what happened and when. They wanted to avoid anything that could provide genuine 'proof' of exactly where Madeleine was during that week.

2. Something happened to Madeleine earlier in the week - say on Saturday, Sunday or Monday - so she was not in a fit state to have photos taken of her with her parents and/or with the twins. And the only evidence that the McCanns or the Tapas group had of Madeleine even going on that holiday was the video-footage of the family on the airport bus. (I suspect this is the case as why else would TM release footage that proved how boorish Gerry was, openly swearing in front of his family and skulking on the bus like a spoilt teenager, completely ignoring his children.)

And if there were NO happy family McCann photos showing Madeleine with her either or both of her parents and/or with her siblings, then that would provide a MOTIVE for photo-shopping 'the last photo' and, very possibly, other photos, such as the tennis-ball photo and the playground photo. It was the only way for the McCanns to try to 'prove' that Madeleine was having a lovely time with her family at the Ocean Club that week right up to the time she was allegedly 'abducted' between 9pm and 10pm on Thursday evening.

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 16.11.14 16:48

To clarify, and to agree with HiDeho's very diplomatic post, those who are genuinely arguing that the date is wrong and those who promoting photo-shopping are pulling in the same direction. Its just a difference of opinion on how the Last Photo is a fake.

However, there were some who argued, and quite vociferously, that the last Photo was genuine, which raised concern.

Personally, I find the change of date argument far more compelling. I don't rule out photo-shopping but I am unconvinced.

IMO.
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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by PeterMac on 16.11.14 16:57

@TheTruthWillOut wrote:Using a online Exif/Metadata reader the date/time listed is February 19th 2007 22:13:43 Peter.

Don't know how accurate that would be. Would really need the original image and a expert to confirm.
Impressive. Does it give the camera ?

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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by HiDeHo on 16.11.14 17:03

There are other reasons that may lead to questions about the timing of the Last Picture.

Rachael seems to 'tell' us that the last time she saw Madeleine was Thursday morning at mini tenis...but Madeleine's group played on Tuesday!

Add to that...she was 'supposd' to be playing tennis with Jane at the time of the last photo. Jane said Madeleine was shouting at them through the fence, but rachael 'apparently' didn't see or mention her being there.

Add to this that IF Rachael saw Madeleine at mini tennis and it was Tuesday, then Jane and Kate didn't see Rachael there!

What this actually 'tells' me is that Rachael is (indirectly, by not seeing Madeleine shouting at the fence or in the pool area) maybe not being truthful about plaing tennis with Jane...and if that is the case...was Jane really playing?

If Jane's statement was to place Madeleine at the pool, then Rachel seems to have sabotaged that....

If Racahel wasn't there, then Jane wouldn't have been there and more importantly was Madeleine really there?

The above is VERY confusing, but I'm hoping someone will take the time to understand how HUGE this info is.

I've been talking to brick walls about this for the longest time  smilie

This graphic is not a very good example but may inspire someone...




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Re: Analyzing position of sun in last photo

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 16.11.14 17:21

@PeterMac wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:Using a online Exif/Metadata reader the date/time listed is February 19th 2007 22:13:43 Peter.

Don't know how accurate that would be. Would really need the original image and a expert to confirm.
Impressive.   Does it give the camera ?

No it doesn't Peter. The date is listed under XMP Toolkit which is Adobe software and after looking into it a bit more is probably just a date for that version of the XMP Toolkit.

What is needed is the original full resolution image like the last photo to get the full Exif data.
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