Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

by ChippyM 03.07.14 10:02

sar wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/486412/Police-probe-calls-texts-suspects-Madeleine-McCann-vanish-disappear-Maddie-Kate-Gerry

so the xpress are saying "SM"'s sofa was "dumped" if so:

WHEN
WHERE
WHY

and how did MM's dna find itself there?

Possible but not sure how this would stand up to scrutiny in a court. Also, I could be wrong but deleting txt msg's, call history from your phone doesn't delete them from telco servers?

From the express article you posted;

"
According to Portuguese sources, a convicted burglar and a young beggar contacted each other at the time Madeleine was seen leaving a children’s play club.
Police claim they then exchanged three phone calls later that evening coinciding with her mother and family friends leaving a restaurant where they were dining to check on her in the apartment where she was sleeping.
.........
The timing of the phone calls could show that the pair were monitoring the McCanns ready to burgle their flat.
It would also support the widely held theory that the three-year-old was killed during a botched break-in and her body removed and buried.

The timing of the phone calls could show that the pair were monitoring the McCanns

Police believe the burglar, who worked at the Ocean Club apartment complex in Praia da Luz where the McCanns were staying, also spoke by phone with a heroin addict a day before the disappearance. "

So a portuguese source who knows what the police questioning is, someone in the police, or who works in the police station is passing on information to the press?!

If these people were monitoring the McCann's when they were picking up the children in the afternoon, why would they plan to rob the place between the checks and not the long periods when the apartment was empty during the day?

by stillsloppingout 03.07.14 10:05

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I have doubts that most instances of child abuse involve homosexual sex, stillsloppingout.

Not something I really want to discuss so early in the morning though!

I will add in high profile cases it does , [ inc the church ] care homes .
Hetrosexual abuse, is usually family members or close associates .

by jozi 03.07.14 10:06

ChippyM wrote:
sar wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/486412/Police-probe-calls-texts-suspects-Madeleine-McCann-vanish-disappear-Maddie-Kate-Gerry

so the xpress are saying "SM"'s sofa was "dumped" if so:

WHEN
WHERE
WHY

and how did MM's dna find itself there?

Possible but not sure how this would stand up to scrutiny in a court. Also, I could be wrong but deleting txt msg's, call history from your phone doesn't delete them from telco servers?

From the express article you posted;

"
According to Portuguese sources, a convicted burglar and a young beggar contacted each other at the time Madeleine was seen leaving a children’s play club.
Police claim they then exchanged three phone calls later that evening coinciding with her mother and family friends leaving a restaurant where they were dining to check on her in the apartment where she was sleeping.
.........
The timing of the phone calls could show that the pair were monitoring the McCanns ready to burgle their flat.
It would also support the widely held theory that the three-year-old was killed during a botched break-in and her body removed and buried.

The timing of the phone calls could show that the pair were monitoring the McCanns

Police believe the burglar, who worked at the Ocean Club apartment complex in Praia da Luz where the McCanns were staying, also spoke by phone with a heroin addict a day before the disappearance. "

So a portuguese source who knows what the police questioning is, someone in the police, or who works in the police station is passing on information to the press?!

If these people were monitoring the McCann's when they were picking up the children in the afternoon, why would they plan to rob the place between the checks and not the long periods when the apartment was empty during the day?

Unbelievable...the mind truly boggles ! spin

by HelenMeg 03.07.14 10:08

pennylane wrote:I agree with Pat Brown's assessment. As unpalatable as it may be for those who long for Maddie's slippery, culpable, greedy parents to be held accountable, this Operation Grange investigation is a massively corrupt farce and has one agenda... to lead the investigation as far away from the parents as is humanly possible!

imo

Agree. It is unpalatable but increasingly verified by SY's antics that this is a farce. Although I disagree that it is designed to lead the investigation as far away form the parents as possible - they are irrelevant. It is leading away from those that are being protected (not the parents - they are small fry).IMO

If this were an 'honest' investigation, it would be:
a united attempt to find justice by PJ + SY
done with minimal media interaction
without publicity photos

It is a farce because SY are putting on a show - nothing more - that is deliberately being played out in the press so that we, can be convinced of the story they wish to present.IMO

by ChippyM 03.07.14 10:09

jozi... wrote:Unbelievable...the mind truly boggles !

Yup, I have my suspicions on who or what the 'portuguese source' may be. After all, who does this story benefit?

by ultimaThule 03.07.14 10:10

lj wrote:
Cristobell wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:
Cristobell wrote:I think if the McCanns had help, they would never have used the hire car to move the body - that was an act of desperation, Mark Harrison was due to arrive to conduct thorough searches. The McCanns are both doctors, so too some of their friends, they would have worked with cadavers as students and would be familiar with the smell they leave behind, using their own car was incredibly risky, and not something they would have done if they had another option (a helper).

We are talking about the death of a child here. How likely is it that the parents would have trusted complete strangers? Why would Malenka or Murat get involved in such a heinous crime to assist people they don't know in the disposal of a child's body? What were the chances of the McCanns holidaying in a small Portuguese resort, that they had never been to before, finding such hardened criminals among the locals?

I have watched Hideho's video of Malenka, he has no criminal record and as a 'normal' man, its not in the least surprising that he had porn on his computer.

I agree with others, who think SY are ticking boxes created by the McCanns. They tried their damnest to pin the crime on Robert Murat, and they will clutch any straw that might get them off the hook.

While I incline to the view that the McCanns did not have help when moving the body, you have made a number of assertions that I cannot agree with, Cristobell, as:

1. Medical students do not dissect decomposed cadavers and the predominant odour in the path lab is that of formaldehyde,

I believe doctors would be familiar with the smell of cadaverine. You don't. That's fine. Should add Doctors are often called out to certify a death, and such is life, bodies are not always 'fresh' - particularly among the elderly and those who live alone, where they can go undiscovered for hours, days, weeks.

2, 'Normal' men don't keep porn on their computers and I would regard any man that does with suspicion. .

I recently watched a documentary about teens and porn. About 99% of the boys said the first thing they looked up online was porn. It made me laugh. Most men (and some women) like porn, that's a fact - the porn industry would not exist if they didn't.

3. The absence of a criminal record is no indication of probity as all convicted criminals once had no record of offending and some long practising criminals die with a clean sheet.

Indeed. But one of the defences used by the McCanns is their lack of previous. We may as well completely scrap the CRB forms, if they are meaningless as you say. Unfortunately it is one of the few ways we have in judging a person's character, and on the whole, it proves effective.

4.. Gerry had been to Portugal before the couple's MW holiday and the McCanns, together with the twins and an older female child, were allegedly seen on a beach close to PDL at Easter 2007.

Yes, I read he had been on a golfing holiday to the Algarve, but as far as I know he did not stay in PDL, nor was he familiar with the area. I'm happy to be proved wrong, but I've never seen anything to suggest he had been there before. As for the 'alleged' sighting in Easter 2007, I'll file that under Stephen Birch etc.
Medical students do have to attend necropsies, as have most doctors. Some might very well be garther in the decomposition process. I doubt if they had any idea about how long dogs can still find that smell.

Attending autopsies, or necropsies as you prefer to call them, is not part of the curriculum in UK medical schools, lj, and many thousands of practising doctors have never set foot in a mortuary or viewed, let alone performed, an autopsy,. In those med schools where anatomy continues to be learned using traditional methods as opposed to videos and computers, dissections are carried out on previously prepared cadavers in the anatomy lab where, as I have said, the overwhelming odour is that of formaldehyde.

Although this links to the site of a USA med school, the process of preparing and supplying cadavers for dissection is no different to that which is practised in the UK: http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v18n1/p17.html

Cristobell does not appear to be aware that in cases where a body has lain undiscovered for days/weeks or more, the police call on specially trained police surgeons (also known as forensic physicians) who work on a rota system providing a 24 hr service every day of the year. These doctors may also be practising GPs but are highly unlikely to be the GPs of the 'patients' they are called on to attend.

Cristobell has also overlooked the fact that as the odour of a decomposing corpse is rarely detectable to the human nose until 24 hours or more after death, it's perfectly possible for hospital and other doctors to go from med school through to retirement without having been exposed to that distinct odour which, once it has assailed the nostrils, can never be forgotten.

by sar 03.07.14 10:12

to me looks like they are going for some kind of "demi" cover-up, the PJ and SY investigations will continue sides-swiping each other like the chariot racers in Ben Hur, until eventually SY (or those from Imperial Box) this has gone on for too long, drop this pair in it, we've had enough of them. The behind the scenes actors / upper echelons will ~~never~~ unlikely be uncovered, the bit part players / those who have found themselves unexpectedly thrust into the glare of the footlights, can be thrown to the wolves if needs be.

by FrankS 03.07.14 10:15

sar wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/486412/Police-probe-calls-texts-suspects-Madeleine-McCann-vanish-disappear-Maddie-Kate-Gerry

From that article.

The Scotland Yard team will not reveal what new information they have gained from the interrogations.

That's the only thing which is true. The rest is speculation at best.

'According to Portuguese sources'

Will take that with a pinch of salt.

Everything will be watertight and the absolute bare minimum will be released at this stage.

by Guest 03.07.14 10:18

ChippyM wrote:
From the express article you posted;

According to Portuguese sources, a convicted burglar and a young beggar contacted each other at the time Madeleine was seen leaving a children’s play club.

With respect to those who have reposted this, is this from the same Daily Express that claim that taking statins daily will stop crazy EU bureaucrats from helping immigrants to quadruple house prices - all during the worst winter storms EVER?

by MarleneP 03.07.14 10:19

Woofer wrote:From a condensed version of Kiko`s analysis of phone pings :-

RM had his mobile switched off for almost exactly the same time as GM on 2nd/3rd May - GM`s for 31h 25m and RM`s for 31h 35m beginning at 15:45 on 2nd. Now that`s a massive coincidence.
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3223p1-mobile-phones-info-needed

Also does RM have a concrete alibi - wasn`t it just from his Mum? Would this be considered CONCRETE?

I have been thinking about once more. Why does Amaral believes that Madeleine died on 3 May, when the phones of Murat and Gerry were already turned off on May 2? Was a kidnapping planned, executed on 3 and failed?
I think the case is too complex to bring to justice, so the difficult clues.

by Pershing36 03.07.14 10:19

Deleted

by sar 03.07.14 10:20

FrankS wrote:
sar wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/486412/Police-probe-calls-texts-suspects-Madeleine-McCann-vanish-disappear-Maddie-Kate-Gerry
From that article.

The Scotland Yard team will not reveal what new information they have gained from the interrogations.

That's the only thing which is true. The rest is speculation at best.

'According to Portuguese sources'

Will take that with a pinch of salt.

Everything will be watertight and the absolute bare minimum will be released at this stage.

...so how long are we going to have to wait FrankS?

by ultimaThule 03.07.14 10:22

FrankS wrote:
sar wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/486412/Police-probe-calls-texts-suspects-Madeleine-McCann-vanish-disappear-Maddie-Kate-Gerry
From that article.

The Scotland Yard team will not reveal what new information they have gained from the interrogations.

That's the only thing which is true. The rest is speculation at best.

'According to Portuguese sources

Will take that with a pinch of salt.

Everything will be watertight and the absolute bare minimum will be released at this stage.

It should not be forgotten that the McCanns employ 'sources' in Portugal who provide much the same service as that performed by Clarence Mitchell in the UK.

by **PeterMac** 03.07.14 10:36

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2679009/Madeleine-McCann-officers-today-use-sniffer-dogs-examine-cars-two-official-suspects-quizzed-week.html

Madeleine McCann officers 'will today use sniffer dogs to examine the cars of two official suspects quizzed this week'
South Wales police have sent two victim detection dogs to Portugal
It is believed officers will use them to search cars of two official suspects
Four persons of interest were quizzed in front of British police this week
Sniffer dogs also searched waste ground near where Madeleine disappeared
Police investigated three sites in Praia da Luz but found no new evidence

by True Liberty 03.07.14 10:42

ultimathule spot on . and you can tell these forces because they use the same language of disparagement and sources say and other such negligable information.

by Benion 03.07.14 10:43

But if it is a whitewash...WHY?

The McCanns cannot claim to be as well connected as Andy Coulson or Rolf Harris....

by unchained melody 03.07.14 10:44

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
ChippyM wrote:
From the express article you posted;

According to Portuguese sources, a convicted burglar and a young beggar contacted each other at the time Madeleine was seen leaving a children’s play club.

With respect to those who have reposted this, is this from the same Daily Express that claim that taking statins daily will stop crazy EU bureaucrats from helping immigrants to quadruple house prices - all during the worst winter storms EVER?

Haha! Clay. Yep, that's the one big grin

by Justformaddie 03.07.14 10:45

This burglar stuff still can't or won't explain the cadaver odour behind the sofa or anywhere else for that matter IMO OG gotta work harder on that one!

by aiyoyo 03.07.14 10:55

NO ARRESTS THEN? Are we surprised ?

You have to wonder why they deployed the dogs twice when better use could be made of them the first time around? Why did they NOT conduct the interviews prior to the digs, as that would would have been more competent use of time and resources ?

by Guest 03.07.14 10:57

ultimaThule wrote:
FrankS wrote:
sar wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/486412/Police-probe-calls-texts-suspects-Madeleine-McCann-vanish-disappear-Maddie-Kate-Gerry
From that article.

The Scotland Yard team will not reveal what new information they have gained from the interrogations.

That's the only thing which is true. The rest is speculation at best.

'According to Portuguese sources

Will take that with a pinch of salt.

Everything will be watertight and the absolute bare minimum will be released at this stage.

It should not be forgotten that the McCanns employ 'sources' in Portugal who provide much the same service as that performed by Clarence Mitchell in the UK.

I think the Portuguese "sauce" should henceforth be known as O Rosa big grin

by FrankS 03.07.14 10:59

Justformaddie wrote:This burglar stuff still can't or won't explain the cadaver odour behind the sofa or anywhere else for that matter IMO OG gotta work harder on that one!

The burglar stuff IMO is a red herring.

OG and PJ know that it was absolutely nothing to do with a ludicrous 'burglary gone wrong' theory.

They cannot at this stage come out with anything that might implicate the parents and the rest of the tapas group. It won't happen.

It will only happen when they know they have got every I dotted and every T crossed.

When they have got there (phase 3 or 4) then I expect arrests of the true culprits involved with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. We know and they certainly know who that is.

2 Police forces working extremely hard to get one chance only at securing a conviction.

No margin of error on this one.

by NickE 03.07.14 11:04

Tony Bennett wrote:
Cristobell wrote:
How do you think Murat and Malinka were involved Tony, and what was their motive?

Point 1, I have never suggested any involvement by Malinka.

Point 2, I have been asked this question about Murat so many times that I am tired of the repetition of it, but let me summarise my concerns about Murat with a few questions to you:

A. Why did Murat lie even ONCE when questioned about a missing 3-year-old?

B. Why did he lie in at least 17 respects?

C. What was the real reason for Murat's sudden dash to Portugal in the very early hours of 1 May?

D. Why did he volunteer so eagerly to be a translator?

E. Why, when translating, did he try to sneak a look at confidential police documents (see report of an Inspector)

F. Why, when translating, did he question the lines of enquiry of the police and suggest alternative lines of enquiry? (again, see the Inspector's report)

G. Why did the criminal profilers from MI5 and CEOP say that Robert Murat fitted the profile of a likely abductor '90%'? (Amaral's book)

H. Why was Jane Tanner so adamant on 13 May that it was Robert Murat she had seen 10 days earlier?

I. Why the day after Murat was made a suspect did Rachael Oldfield say she'd seen Murat aruond the Ocean Club in the late evening?

J. Ditto Russell O'Brien?

K. Ditto Fiona Payne?

L. Why did a British policeman have a long 'phone conversation with Murat about how the movements of his mobile 'phone could be traced?

M. Why did Murat and his lawyer meet with Brian Kennedy and Edward Smethurst at the Eveleighs' home on 13 November 2007?

N. What was discussed there?

O. Why, weeks after this meeting, did Jane Tanner change her mind about the identity of the abductor, and said it was not Murat?

P. Why did Fiona Payne say she made a mistake and it wasn't Murat she'd seen around the Ocean Club late on 3 May?

Q. Ditto Russell O'Brien?

R. Ditto Rachael Oldfield?

S. Why was he not absolutely furious with all the four members of the Tapas 7 for having wrongly identified him (see 'Eyes for Lies' website analysis of his 2008 TV interview?

T. Why was Martin Smith so adamant that the man he says he saw on 3 May was not Robert Murat?

U. How well do Martin Smith and Murat know each other?

V. Why did Gerry McCann give such an evasive answer when asked the simple question: "Do you already know Robert Murat?"

If all these questions have a completely satisfactory explanation, I'll never mention the words 'Robert Murat' again.

X: Murat hired a car May 12 to May 15 and drove 400miles
It was between May 12-15 when a phone was used around RdV.
This phone recived a call from Swansea at May 2,but this phone didn't belong the McCann's or T7.
This was the same number that called Kate's phone at May 2,she claimed "Wrong number".
Maybe Another coincident with R.M?

by Justformaddie 03.07.14 11:07

FrankS wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:This burglar stuff still can't or won't explain the cadaver odour behind the sofa or anywhere else for that matter IMO OG gotta work harder on that one!
The burglar stuff IMO is a red herring.

OG and PJ know that it was absolutely nothing to do with a ludicrous 'burglary gone wrong' theory.

They cannot at this stage come out with anything that might implicate the parents and the rest of the tapas group. It won't happen.

It will only happen when they know they have got every I dotted and every T crossed.

When they have got there (phase 3 or 4) then I expect arrests of the true culprits involved with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. We know and they certainly know who that is.

2 Police forces working extremely hard to get one chance only at securing a conviction.

No margin of error on this one.

I like it FrankS yes

by sofieellis 03.07.14 11:09

What's RdV?

by whatliesbehindthesofa 03.07.14 11:10

Justformaddie wrote:This burglar stuff still can't or won't explain the cadaver odour behind the sofa or anywhere else for that matter IMO OG gotta work harder on that one!

Aye, which is one of the many reasons I believe the investigation is not a whitewash. If it is a whitewash then your point is very valid - the explanation doesn't work, it has massive holes in it. I don't believe it is possible to whitewash this case with the available evidence. If it is a whitewash then the evidence of Eddie and Keela has to be ignored - and in that case, the last thing you should do is bring in more cadaver dogs to find more evidence.

If the investigation is a whitewash then OG's current actions are ludicrous. If it isn't a whitewash, then what we are seeing is a carefully planned operation, of which we do not yet have the fine details. Which is exactly the way I expect police to run an investigation.