Re: Shrines and the McCanns

by Justformaddie 13.07.14 11:39

I wonder what's written on the tag at the back of the pot?

by della70 13.07.14 19:29

missbeetle wrote:
Shibboleth wrote:I do not believe the McCann couple are religious at all, at least not for a church.

Here is their shrine, and their religion.

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A picture of their daughter at the side. A holder for money in the center.

Crikey, Shibboleth, you may well be right.

To the left, a sunflower - associated with adoration and longevity.

Negative connotations are false appearance, haughtiness and unhappy love.

In the middle, that awful money-pot which looks like an urn.

To the right, an unreal picture of the family's missing eldest child.

Madeleine spelled out above a train.

A money train...?

My interpretations, anyhow.

I'm sure it been said , but doesnt that photo seem to be the exact copy minus 2 others of the pool photo , Why as family would you cut yourself out of one of the last photo's taken , surely you want to remember you all together .

by **tigger** 13.07.14 20:49

Nina wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:I believe there are ashes in that soccer ball, which to my mind is an urn. I took a look on google pics and saw something similar. One can have an urn made to order, so it could well be a one of a kind. Personally, I dislike shrines, so perhaps am biased, but this one is a really horrible tacky display imo. Are those red things below the words Madeleine, are they light bulbs that possibly light up and flash at night, reminiscent of a one armed bandit?

Hha Snifferdog, no, they are the wheels of the train.
The urn is a Terramundi money pot. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Nina! that's amazing, a money pot where one might expect a St. Cristopher, a Madonna or at the very least a Led candle giving light.

Shibboleth said it was tacky iirc. Quite right, beyond belief.

by ultimaThule 13.07.14 22:27

This cheap display is way beyond 'tacky', tigger, and the Terramundi money pot which takes pride of place may just as well be the red one with 'Ker-ching' written on it as shown in Nina's link.

IMO sidelining Madeleine in this manner suggests she was not cherished and that she is not missed but, wherever she is, at least she's safe from those who should have made her welfare and wellbeing of paramount importance to them.

by kimHager 14.07.14 3:40

Yes why would the mccanns need a moneypot? That thing looks like an urn. I always thought that the item at Rothley i believe in march or april there was an article saying SY had a warrent to search for an item in TM's home.Thought it was odd at the time but now idk.my opinion is...its an urn and sadly maddy wasa moneypot to them.

by Guest 14.07.14 10:05

Perhaps catholicism and the shrines are part of the wider agenda:

- Beautiful little catholic girl vanishes from the face of the earth.

- Apparition of beautiful little catholic girl, possibly accompanied by Mary, appears in sleepy little Portuguese fishing village where she disappeared.

- A shrine is built in Praia da Luz to with the faithful come flocking.

- Prayers to beautiful little catholic girl result in miracles occurring.

Miracles = sainthood.

Poor Kate. It would be a nightmare for the sweet, shy introvert that is Kate McCann. She would hate being thrust into the spotlight as the living mother of a saint ...hate it

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spit coffee

by Nina 14.07.14 10:40

kimHager wrote:Yes why would the mccanns need a moneypot? That thing looks like an urn. I always thought that the item at Rothley i believe in march or april there was an article saying SY had a warrent to search for an item in TM's home.Thought it was odd at the time but now idk.my opinion is...its an urn and sadly maddy wasa moneypot to them.

It certainly has the shape of an urn used for cremains, apart from the top. All the urns that I have ever seen, and they number double figures have a very wide opening at the top so the cremains can be put into the urn. The top of the money pot on the mantle shelf is far too small.

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by missbeetle 14.07.14 11:01

Poe wrote:Perhaps catholicism and the shrines are part of the wider agenda:

- Beautiful little catholic girl vanishes from the face of the earth.

- Apparition of beautiful little catholic girl, possibly accompanied by Mary, appears in sleepy little Portuguese fishing village where she disappeared.

- A shrine is built in Praia da Luz to with the faithful come flocking.

- Prayers to beautiful little catholic girl result in miracles occurring.

Miracles = sainthood.

Poor Kate. It would be a nightmare for the sweet, shy introvert that is Kate McCann. She would hate being thrust into the spotlight as the living mother of a saint ...hate it

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Love it, Poe!

Your riff on the Afghan burglars was a winner, too.

My thinking is that such sanctification of Kate does not sit easily with her...

I really do believe she is possibly rather shy and an introvert.

I wonder if Gerry is holding Kate's hand out of shot in this picture.

Giving it a good, hard, family-manly squeeze, even.

To my eye that makeup looks professionally done.

by Nina 14.07.14 11:05

Just to add a little more information to the use of urns, this is taken from the following site,

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Snipped,

The general rule of thumb is for every pound of a persons total weight you will need one cubic inch of space but even very large people usually fit in a 200 cubic inch urn.

So for example.

If a person weighed 100 LBS you will need an urn that is 100 cubic inches or larger
If a person weighed 50 LBS you will need an urn that is 50 cubic inches or larger
If a person weighed 25 LBS you will need an urn that is 25 cubic inches or larger
If your child weigheds 15 LBS you will need an urn that is 15 cubic inches or larger
If your baby weighed 10 LBS you will need an urn that is 10 cubic inches or larger

by Guest 14.07.14 11:34

@ poe,

there is something with this saintly picture that does not looks right, something was bothering me for months, i think i know now what is wrong, the hand would have been on the heart or on the side of the heart, where it is usually is in catholic icons.

it looks like a result of posing before a mirror and by that accidentally swapped to the wrong side. or the picture is swapped.
my catholic days are long gone, but swapping gestures opposite of what was the norm was always said to be satanic. i got my fair share of that in beatings , because i was born left handed. well it was nice i learned a lot to do with my right hand after all, but i would have liked it a bit more if they had just asked it nicely.

i can vaguely remember that there must be a lot of specific meanings in the position of the hand in pictures and paintings on icons.
but to the left was not seen as something good, holy or devout. but it fits nicely in the with the rest of the mccann pictures, the all look wrong to at least some people.

by Snifferdog 14.07.14 11:42

Nina as far as I know, in S Africa anyway, the urns I have seen have been much smaller than the sizes you have mentioned for an adult, both incidentally had ashes of adults in them. I do believe, in S A at least, that all the remains are not necessarily put into the urn. I also would just like to mention again that there are bones remaining which do not burn, and these are ground up, and added to the ashes.
There is no reason why imo, that ashes could not be funneled into an opening the size of the kitsch moneypot. The gold hearts on the black parts...eurgh!

by Nina 14.07.14 12:09

onehand wrote:@ poe,

there is something with this saintly picture that does not looks right, something was bothering me for months, i think i know now what is wrong, the hand would have been on the heart or on the side of the heart, where it is usually is in catholic icons.

it looks like a result of posing before a mirror and by that accidentally swapped to the wrong side. or the picture is swapped.
my catholic days are long gone, but swapping gestures opposite of what was the norm was always said to be satanic. i got my fair share of that in beatings , because i was born left handed. well it was nice i learned a lot to do with my right hand after all, but i would have liked it a bit more if they had just asked it nicely.

i can vaguely remember that there must be a lot of specific meanings in the position of the hand in pictures and paintings on icons.
but to the left was not seen as something good, holy or devout. but it fits nicely in the with the rest of the mccann pictures, the all look wrong to at least some people.

Well that is Kate's left hand, as is the norm in the UK she wears her engagement ring and wedding ring on the left hand. She also wears her wedding ring on top of it so doesn't remove for washing up or other domestic duties which many woman do for fear of loosening the stone/s. Maybe she cannot remove either as she has very large knuckles on each finger, though I recollect mention of Madeleine playing with one of these rings on the evening of 3rd May whilst listening to the bed time story.
Kate is immaculately made up, as though for a posed shot, not a moment of quiet reflection when lip gloss and eye shadow wouldn't have mattered.

by Snifferdog 14.07.14 12:26

Perhaps Kate is left handed?

by Guest 14.07.14 13:05

@missbeetle, onehand and Nina,

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Professional make-up, skillfully posed & photographed.

by Sparklehorse 14.07.14 13:12

In my opinion these poses would be more at home on the cover of one of Bridget O'Donnells novels than in any saintly capacity.

by missbeetle 14.07.14 13:29

Poe wrote:@missbeetle, onehand and Nina,

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Professional make-up, skillfully posed & photographed.

Cheers for that, Poe.

Gold-and-steel watch tones in with the gold rings and silver chains.

Each picture almost begs a caption competition for the attempted expression being emoted.

Though I must say that Kate does look genuinely miserable...

by lj 14.07.14 13:50

onehand wrote:@ poe,

there is something with this saintly picture that does not looks right, something was bothering me for months, i think i know now what is wrong, the hand would have been on the heart or on the side of the heart, where it is usually is in catholic icons.

it looks like a result of posing before a mirror and by that accidentally swapped to the wrong side. or the picture is swapped.
my catholic days are long gone, but swapping gestures opposite of what was the norm was always said to be satanic. i got my fair share of that in beatings , because i was born left handed. well it was nice i learned a lot to do with my right hand after all, but i would have liked it a bit more if they had just asked it nicely.

i can vaguely remember that there must be a lot of specific meanings in the position of the hand in pictures and paintings on icons.
but to the left was not seen as something good, holy or devout. but it fits nicely in the with the rest of the mccann pictures, the all look wrong to at least some people.

WTF would you pose for photos in a situation like that, because this serie is clearly posed, with professional make up etc/

Good observation onehand, from the one hand.

Yes they seem to constantly miss the right tone.

by missbeetle 16.07.14 7:22

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(clipped from the Telegraph article above)

by **tigger** 16.07.14 7:41

lj wrote:
onehand wrote:@ poe,

there is something with this saintly picture that does not looks right, something was bothering me for months, i think i know now what is wrong, the hand would have been on the heart or on the side of the heart, where it is usually is in catholic icons.

it looks like a result of posing before a mirror and by that accidentally swapped to the wrong side. or the picture is swapped.
my catholic days are long gone, but swapping gestures opposite of what was the norm was always said to be satanic. i got my fair share of that in beatings , because i was born left handed. well it was nice i learned a lot to do with my right hand after all, but i would have liked it a bit more if they had just asked it nicely.

i can vaguely remember that there must be a lot of specific meanings in the position of the hand in pictures and paintings on icons.
but to the left was not seen as something good, holy or devout. but it fits nicely in the with the rest of the mccann pictures, the all look wrong to at least some people.

WTF would you pose for photos in a situation like that, because this serie is clearly posed, with professional make up etc/

Good observation onehand, from the one hand.

Yes they seem to constantly miss the right tone.

Entry level celebrity - right-hand list in Dailymailonline, near the bottom.... big grin

Looks to me as if she is working out which earrings to wear and where did I leave cuddlecat nr 5?
(Metodo were given 40 cuddlecats so to save washing the same one, to save divesting the prop on the bedside table from the rosary and good quality wristband, why not keep one in the handbag, one for Amelie, one in the rucksack ?)

There's a similar set of posed pictures in PdL, with - of course - cuddlecat. Just as convincing as these here with Kate going through the gamut of emotions from A to B as Dorothy Parker once said of an actress.

by littlepixie 16.07.14 7:48

This shrine at Fatima is based on the abuse and torture of 3 children according to Wikipedia

"The children subsequently wore tight cords around their waists, performed self-flagellation using stinging nettles, abstained from drinking water on hot days, and performed other works of penance.[6]

Also I can never understand why this religion seems to reject the sacrifice of Jesus Christ whose sole aim was to pay the price for all our sins once and for all time.

"In these, the lady asked the children to do penance and Acts of Reparation and make personal sacrifices to save sinners"

Child abuse in the name of religion. It makes me shudder.

by missbeetle 16.07.14 9:22

littlepixie wrote:This shrine at Fatima is based on the abuse and torture of 3 children according to Wikipedia

"The children subsequently wore tight cords around their waists, performed self-flagellation using stinging nettles, abstained from drinking water on hot days, and performed other works of penance.[6]

Also I can never understand why this religion seems to reject the sacrifice of Jesus Christ whose sole aim was to pay the price for all our sins once and for all time.

"In these, the lady asked the children to do penance and Acts of Reparation and make personal sacrifices to save sinners"

Child abuse in the name of religion. It makes me shudder.

Gosh, Littlepixie, thank you so much for flagging that up - I did not know that.

Those poor children.

I wonder who encouraged them in their self-mortification?

Ghastly shades of S & M, the deprivation of water on a hot day really disturbs me.

Nobody, or no animal, should go without drinking water :

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(clipped from dailyhadithonline.com)

Such compassion from the prostitute.

Simple empathy, kindness and recognition of a fellow sufferer.

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(snipped from Wikipedia)

The jailing of children and consolation from unlikely quarters...

...the role of the Church and politics...

It's the same old story.

Power overtaking wonder.

So many beautiful, humbling and true words said by many wise men...

So much twisted in the name of all that is good.

by Snifferdog 16.07.14 10:20

littlepixie wrote:This shrine at Fatima is based on the abuse and torture of 3 children according to Wikipedia

"The children subsequently wore tight cords around their waists, performed self-flagellation using stinging nettles, abstained from drinking water on hot days, and performed other works of penance.[6]

Also I can never understand why this religion seems to reject the sacrifice of Jesus Christ whose sole aim was to pay the price for all our sins once and for all time.

"In these, the lady asked the children to do penance and Acts of Reparation and make personal sacrifices to save sinners"

Child abuse in the name of religion. It makes me shudder.

Well put littlepixie. If I recall correctly from my catholic upbringing, two if the children died, hastened perhaps by the "penance" the apparition ordered them to practise.

The remaining girl, whilst still very young, joined the Carmelite order of nuns, who practiced the type of masochistic behaviour you mentioned, plus other deprivations, there, (I think she took on the name of Bernadette), she lived to a ripe old age. There are many who believe the apparition in Lourdes to be the one who is named the morning star, light bearer, or deceiver, who was a liar from the beginning.

by missbeetle 18.07.14 5:40

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Haunting photograph of Uncle John McCann, taken on the eve of Madeleine's 4th birthday.

A candlelit prayer vigil at a church dedicated to St Andrew, the patron saint of Scotland.

Why is he holding a lead in his left hand?

Is it to snap a self-portrait?

by missbeetle 22.07.14 9:41

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Has anyone any thoughts as to who the fellow holding on to Gerry's arm might be?

He seems to feature in the background quite a bit that day...

by missbeetle 06.09.14 22:52

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The Murat Temple was built in 1909 by the William P. Jungclaus Company using the designs of Murat Shriner Oscar D. Bohlen, with Middle Eastern and Egyptian stylings that were fitting for a building intended for Shriners. Its namesake is the Nubian Desert oasis Bir Murat, which was named for the Frenchman Joachim Murat, who was one of Napoleon's generals in his Egyptian campaign.

(snipped from Wikipedia)

I was reminded of this crackers piece of architecture the other day by the references to Egyptian-styled obelisks.

I must admit I'd not taken much notice of Egyptology before - it still doesn't do it for me -

- but the McCann case makes for interesting reading in all sorts of directions.

Not that this Murat Shrine has anything to do with Robert, or the McCanns...

...but I was wondering how do you pronounce this particular American 'Murat'?