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Shrines and the McCanns

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Glaswegians at the Vatican...

Post by missbeetle on 12.01.15 6:55



Any ideas which tartan that umbrella is? Black Watch?

It belongs to Msgr Charlie Burns - the elderly fellow to the left of the picture.

How ungrateful they look!


My opinion only.

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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by unchained melody on 12.01.15 11:44

@missbeetle wrote:

Any ideas which tartan that umbrella is? Black Watch?

It belongs to Msgr Charlie Burns - the elderly fellow to the left of the picture.

How ungrateful they look!


My opinion only.

Rome didn't prepare the weather for them big grin

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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by comperedna on 12.01.15 13:29

Don't think the brolly is a tartan at all - just a navy and green check. Black Watch tartan has those colours but in a more complicated pattern.

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Knock knock...

Post by missbeetle on 22.01.15 9:54

An interesting old article I hadn't come across before.

It's the write-up for the Vigil in Knock Shrine attended by Mr and Mrs Healy...

...complete with Our Lady resembling Kate, or vice versa :



Home Columnists News Praying for a miracle

Praying for a miracle

Tuesday, 03 July 2007 11:52



As the search for Madeleine McCann continues, her grandparents came to Knock at the weekend.
HOPING AND PRAYING Brian and Sue Healy, grandparents of Madeleine McCann, at the vigil for their grand-daughter last Friday night in Knock. Pic: Mick McCormack

Praying for a miracle

EXCLUSIVE
Michael Commins

michaelcommins@mayonews.ie This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

ONE of the biggest international stories of the past two months, the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine McCann from the seaside village of Praia da Luz in south-west Portugal, came right to the heart of our province on Friday night when her maternal grandparents, Sue and Brian Healy from Liverpool, attended a special vigil at Knock Shrine for her safe return.
On Saturday evening in the home of Breda (nee Jennings) and her husband Kieran Whelton in Knock, Sue Healy (nee Kennedy), grandmother of Madeleine, spoke to The Mayo News about the trauma that her daughter Kate and husband Gerry and all the family are going through since the feared abduction of their child, the huge support the family has received, and the peace and calm she experienced during her visit to Knock.
Sue and Brian and some close friends had travelled over from Liverpool to attend the vigil at the Shrine. And they were very touched by the outpouring of support during their time in the Mayo village.
“We all found it very calming last night. Emotional, because people were so supportive. I was glad that we did it, glad that we came to Knock. I do think that it’s a special place.


“I looked up at one stage at the statue of Our Lady of Knock, which was positioned in front of us at the time, and for all the world it could have been my daughter’s face. The face I was looking at … very very similar features to Kate’s. And strangely enough afterwards, my own family didn’t pick up on it but two people in the congregation came to me afterwards and said Our Lady of Knock looked like your daughter. I just take this as another sign that we are working in the right direction to get Madeleine back.”


On Saturday afternoon, Sue and Brian took some time to stroll in the church grounds and take in the peace and serenity of the place. “It was nice to wander in the grounds. We went over to the cemetery and saw the graves of the witnesses. We remarked on the fact that there were graves with the name Healy on them which isn’t really surprising as Brian’s father was born in Sligo which isn’t very far away. My friend found a grave with Conway on it and that was her maiden name.
“It’s a beautiful place. I actually remarked to someone that if I was going to be buried, it would be a beautiful spot to be buried in. It’s so tranquil. We went into the chapel where the Apparition took place and that was very peaceful. There was a very nice priest saying the afternoon Mass and he acknowledged our presence in the congregation. We were given applause. I was just happy to applaud the people there because they have been so supportive. I know there are so many people praying for us. Prayer is our greatest tool at the moment. I don’t know where we’d be without it really. People have been storming heaven with their prayers for Madeleine.”
Inevitably, Sue’s thoughts drift back to the night of May 3 when she received the phone call from Portugal. “Gerry rang me and said how desperate the situation was. He said it was a disaster. And at first I thought there had been a car accident. And then he said no, and when he told me that Madeleine had been abducted from her bed in the hotel, I just said ‘No’. He said ‘I’m serious, Sue’. He said everyone in the complex was searching for Madeleine. He was really, really upset.
“And shortly after that, I had a phone call from Kate asking me to contact Fr Paul Seddon. He’s a friend of Kate and Gerry’s. Paul married Kate and Gerry and baptised Madeleine and she needed to speak to him.
“So right from the beginning Kate has felt the need for this kind of spiritual support and is depending very much on her faith. The local church in normally locked in Praia da Luz but they actually gave Kate a key so that she could go there at anytime with Gerry to pray. They’ve had tremendous support from the local people there, both the Anglican and the Catholic congregations have been wonderful.”
As she relaxed into reflective mood, Sue reflected on the similarities between her daughter and granddaughter. “They are quite similar in looks. Kate was a quiet child, never liked to be centre of attention, very very gentle. Madeleine is quite exuberant. She’s full of life and probably really relishes being the centre of attention. Lovely little girl, a funny character, too special to just disappear, far too special just not to be with us anymore. But as I say, almost a ‘mini Kate’ to look at. And Kate feels that way too. ‘Mini me’ she calls her. She’s so close to Madeleine, it’s hard to imagine how Kate must be feeling.”
Every now and again, news stories emerge from various sources hinting at some breakthrough in the case. Hopes are raised only to be dashed again. Sue reflects: “It is hard. I mean, you grasp at it because it’s what you want so badly. And sometimes we’ve had phone calls from Kate and Gerry in Portugal to explain that something is going to happen and not to get too excited about it as there’s no actual proof at that stage.
“But I must admit that when the two people were arrested in recent days, I did hope that they knew where Madeleine was. It is disappointing, but with the best will in the world, you wait so long for something and nothing happens and so you grasp on to these things. I think we wouldn’t be human if we didn’t.”
For Sue and the McCann family, the role of the media has, generally, been very positive from the outset. How has a quiet family coped with the glare of the international media limelight? “I think it’s very strange. I think if you’d asked us months ago to even speak on the radio or on the television, none of us would have done that. We wouldn’t have been comfortable doing it. I can get quite nervous at the prospect of even making a speech or something like that. But somehow, something sort of propelled us on.
“The media have been very supportive of us. We needed them and we thank them for all the support we’ve had from them. It was so important to publicise the situation of Madeleine because we don’t know where Madeleine is. We’ve really wanted this publicity. It can be a bit of an ordeal but we’ve just got on and done it as if it was second nature to us because it was, and is, our best means of getting Madeleine back.”
Faith and hope are the things that keep them going, keep them focussed, and keep them on track. For Sue, there is the firm belief that Madeleine is still alive. “I do believe it. I can’t accept that Madeleine would be dead. It doesn’t feel to me that this could be a possibility. I think there are so many people praying for Madeline’s safe return.
“I honestly do believe we will get her back. I hope and pray that we will get her back. It would be very difficult if this turned out to be other than how I feel at the moment. I don’t know how we would cope with that. But at the moment, until we know anything different, we are not considering the fact that somebody may have killed Madeleine. We are just confident that we are going to get Madeleine back and please God we will.
“It would be the biggest party. I don’t know how we’d do it. Certainly, we would bring her here to Knock. That would be so great. Just a wonderful thought that this might happen and please God let this happen.”
(from the Mayo News)

A picture of the statue or Our  Lady at Knock, anyhow :


(snipped from flickr.com)

Not entirely dissimilar...!


My thoughts only.





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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Rufus T on 25.01.15 21:17

Portuguese bishop says he would negotiate with 'Madeleine's abductor'
Last updated at 12:38 24 May 2007

A leading Portuguese bishop has told the parents of Madeleine McCann that he is willing to negotiate their daughter's release.

The Bishop of the Algarve, Manuel Neto Guintas, today offered to act as an intermediary between the McCanns and their daughter's abductor if needed.

Bishop Guintas appealed to the "heart and mind" of the abductor to bring the four-year-old back. His appeal came as the McCanns marked yet another painful milestone in their daughter's disappearance: it has been three weeks exactly since the four-year-old was stolen from them as she lay sleeping.

Bishop Guintas said: "Madeleine must be reunited with her parents as soon as possible. They are going through terrible pain and I am willing to help in whatever way I can.
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"If it comes to the point that a go-between is needed to negotiate her release, then I am very happy to do that."

The bishop told a Portuguese religious newspaper that he had written to the McCanns to offer his support "in whatever form they required".


The bishop, who is well known for his outspoken opinions and frequent media appearances.
Yesterday the McCanns visited the famous Fatima shrine as they continued their desperate prayers for their daughter's safety.
Madeleine was snatched three weeks ago from her parents' apartment in Praia da Luz, a resort just outside the town of Lagos on the Algarve.
When her mother Kate visited Fatima, she held her missing daughter's toy and a wellwisher's rose. All she had in her heart was hope.

But as she lit the candle for Madeleine at one of the holiest sites in Europe, Kate McCann was keeping that hope alive in the only way she could.

She stood side by side with her husband Gerry at the Shrine of Fatima and prayed for a miracle. Gently, she placed a kiss on the candle and left it among hundreds of others at the Portuguese basilica.

Then she travelled back to Praia da Luz to continue her agonising wait.

The couple's brief pilgrimage to Fatima yesterday came on Day 20 of the search for Madeleine, another 24 hours without the news for which they have been waiting.
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The McCanns joined thousands of other pilgrims at the shrine in central Portugal, renowned as the site where the Virgin Mary is said to have appeared 90 years ago, and revered by fellow Roman Catholics across the world.

Mary is said to have shared three visions here with three shepherd children - a vision of hell; a prediction of the Russian Revolution, the spread of Communism and the Second World War; and the attempted assassination of a pope, taken to be a reference to the shooting of Pope John Paul II in 1981.

No one had to ask the McCanns what miracle vision they had in mind.
The couple arrived after a four-hour drive from Praia da Luz and were escorted into the basilica square. Their faces are familiar in Portugal and scenes that unfolded around them were almost Biblical.
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Crowds parted to let them pass. Then a multitude of well-wishers, TV cameras and applauding pilgrims pursued them around the square before they disappeared to a private chapel to pray alone.

After nearly an hour they emerged to light their candle and place it with the others, along with four more that various pilgrims had thrust into their hands.

Manuel Ines, who had travelled to Fatima specifically to meet the McCanns, held his 17-month-old great grandson aloft and invited them to kiss him. Young Daniel duly received a kiss from the couple before they were swept off to join a public Mass.

Here, in the Chapel of Apparitions, they sat near a framed photograph of Madeleine, left several days ago by an unknown pilgrim.
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Monsenhor Luciano Guerra, Rector of the Shrine, offered prayers for their daughter - and added a message in Portuguese for families everywhere: "Let us pray to the Lord for all the parents who do not have time to play with their children. Let us summon the three little shepherds, for all the children that are away from their homes, especially little Madeleine, so that Our Lady can keep these children in her care."

He prayed for help for those investigating Madeleine's disappearance, "so that this tragedy can come to an end". And in a message to any abductor he added: "Let us pray so that these vultures can be enlightened and converted."


Fatima is one of the places the McCanns have long wanted to visit, and they were originally planning to fit in a trip during their holiday.

How they must have yearned to have been able to enjoy it as an anonymous family of five. This was the first time since Madeleine, four, vanished that the couple have left Praia da Luz together, except to give statements to police.

A family spokesman told us: "Kate is anxious to get back as soon as possible because she feels a strong connection to Madeleine there and a connection to the search.

"It's very hard for her to leave. But they were very pleased to come here. Their faith is very important to them and this was a profoundly moving and important spiritual visit for them at this time.

"The fact that so many people are praying for them and for Madeleine is enormously uplifting. They take strength from every single prayer."
•Police have taken fresh statements from suspect Robert Murat's girlfriend. Michaela Walczuch and her husband Luis Antonio - with whom she still lives in a nearby town - were taken for questioning at police headquarters in Portimao.
Police sources said they were being treated as witnesses.




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-456974/Portuguese-bishop-says-negotiate-Madeleines-abductor.html#ixzz3PrcPBM6C 

Are we to believe that the McCanns are somehow worthy of veneration, what with biblical scenes and babies being offered up for kisses. Keep on pushing the devout RC angle to get the public on side.

Planning a family trip to Fatima during their holiday, do you think my head buttons up the back? How exactly would that have worked with three kids and no transport.

In an article further up the thread we have ma Healy seeing the face of Kate on a statue of the BVM, will we be seeing miricales attributed to her in the near future.
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by lj on 26.01.15 1:46

Monsenhor Luciano Guerra, Rector of the Shrine, had at least the sense to pray for children whose parents don't have time to play with them. That must have hurt.


The attempts to the sanctification started early. It shows the megalomania of these narcissists. 

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http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Rufus T on 26.01.15 10:00

The umbrella is a checked pattern but not any tartan.
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.01.15 10:51

@missbeetle wrote:

Any ideas which tartan that umbrella is? Black Watch?

It belongs to Msgr Charlie Burns - the elderly fellow to the left of the picture.

How ungrateful they look!


My opinion only.

There's a useful link here: https://www.scotlandshop.com/tartan-finder.aspx?tartan-colour=Green

The green and blue chequered umbrella design looks quite similar to the Macleod tartan!

Macleod Hunting Tartan

Also represented are MacIntyre (auditors to the Find Madeleine Fund) and MacFadyen - maybe McCann-sceptic Isabelle McFadden is of the clan?

Another McCann-sceptic, BlackWatch, is listed.

Blair is represented.

As is Clarence Mitchell.

McCann is not there.

They are Irish interlopers.

The Camerons (Sandy and Patricia) have their own Tartan.

Lois Campbell (journalist who targeted Murat) has her clan Tartan there.

Campbell of Cawdor - Modern Tartan

Likewise DCS Hamish Campbell, boss of DCI Andy Redwood.

So does Gail Cooper of Cooperman fame and also Raj Balu, the mysterious barrister who runs immigration law firm Cooper Tuff.

McCann-sceptic George Galloway's clan is represented.

As is 'Gay Gordon' Brown.

The British consul for the Algarve, who resigned soon after Madeleine disappeared, Bill Henderson, also has his clan Tartan.

Brian Kennedy I (Rothley) and Brian Kennedy II (Cheshire) also come from a famous Scottish clan, of course.

Kennedy Modern Tartan

Callum Macrae, website wizard, is represnted by the MacCallum Tartan.

As it's possible that the Loch Ness Monster abducted Madeleine, there's even a Tartan for him/her as well

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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Rufus T on 26.01.15 13:06

Surely Calum Macrae would wear a Macrae tartan, unless of course his mother is a MacCallum.
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by aquila on 26.01.15 13:09

I'm drifting off topic - but then again this topic has wandered all by itself from a check umbrella to tartan - so whilst we're on the subject of tartan - can someone tell me if all the catholic tartans are mostly green and all the protestant tartans are mostly blue?
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Rufus T on 26.01.15 13:43

Aquila, short answer no - tartan does not work that way.
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by aquila on 26.01.15 13:48

@Rufus T wrote:Aquila, short answer no - tartan does not work that way.
I'm sorry Rufus T - I was being sarcastic.
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Rufus T on 26.01.15 14:02

Ha, ha - I did wonder doh.  big grin
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by simpson on 26.01.15 15:13




Here is my clan tartan which is similar to the umbrella but I agree with Rufus the brolly has a check pattern not a tartan.

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Tarted up in tartan...

Post by missbeetle on 26.01.15 19:17


Any guesses as to which lucky clan's tartan is getting to gird Gerry the Groom's loins?

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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.01.15 19:44

@missbeetle wrote:
Any guesses as to which lucky clan's tartan is getting to gird Gerry the Groom's loins?
@ missbeetle

There are no fewer than 288 blue-green clan tartans shown here:

https://www.scotlandshop.com/tartan-finder.aspx?tartan-colour=Green

...and not one of them seems to match Gerry's tartan.

A website on the McCann Clan says there is no official Irish McCann clan tartan. 

Is it possible that Freemasonry - Scottish Rite - has its own speical tartan?

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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 26.01.15 19:51

Tony I think that is the Modern Douglas Tartan (Douglas Modern on the website you have provided).

Quite a popular one for Scottish weddings and I wore it myself for my own.
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Guest on 26.01.15 19:56

Why would a Glaswegian Mc Cann don a clan tartan not his own (if the Irish  Mccanns are entitled to one; being which exactly?)

Is het Irish?
Is he Scottish?

Both?
Neither?
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 26.01.15 20:07

@Portia wrote:Why would a Glaswegian Mc Cann don a clan tartan not his own (if the Irish  Mccanns are entitled to one; being which exactly?)

Is het Irish?
Is he Scottish?

Both?
Neither?
She who must be obeyed ?

It's usually the way.....isn't it ?
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Kitted up in whose kilt...?

Post by missbeetle on 26.01.15 20:23

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:
@Portia wrote:Why would a Glaswegian Mc Cann don a clan tartan not his own (if the Irish  Mccanns are entitled to one; being which exactly?)

Is het Irish?
Is he Scottish?

Both?
Neither?
She who must be obeyed ?

It's usually the way.....isn't it ?

Do you mean Kate? She's not in the least bit Scots!

(perhaps there is a Healy tartan?)

I don't think she's that fussed on the tartan theme -

- there's nothing in her wedding dress to echo it.

Perhaps Gerry found his in an amdram costume sale?

(is it not bad form in Scotland for Ger to wear a tartan he's not entitled to?)

I believe his kilt predates his wedding -

- he was wearing it when he first met Fr Seddon.


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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Rufus T on 26.01.15 21:42

It is traditional  to wear the tartan associated with your fathers name or mothers name. Gerry is Scottish on his mothers side so he would be entitled to wear the Ferguson tartan( ma McCann's maiden name is Ferry and they are associate with clan Ferguson). Nowadays though anything goes.
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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.01.15 22:48

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Tony I think that is the Modern Douglas Tartan (Douglas Modern on the website you have provided).

Quite a popular one for Scottish weddings and I wore it myself for my own.
Good! Thanks very much for clearing this up.

This is a fascinating 7-minute video titled:

Scotland's Last Artisan Tartan Mill: A Visit to D C Dalgliesh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W9UBVjx_QQ

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Marian shrines and the Muslims...

Post by missbeetle on 30.01.15 23:20

I'm still finding Gerry a very odd bod in his (not-particularly-his) kilt.

Somewhere, ages ago, I read of Mr and Mrs being special guests at a Burns Night dinner -

- somewhere in Leicester - Rothley Golf Club, perhaps?


Gerry seems to have played a more minor role in the Anglican/Catholic church publicity, though -

- he turns up to church with his family, plays sport with priests and his hospital colleagues pray for him...

...that's about it.


I still wonder if Aunty Phil was off to Ephesus in Turkey in June of 2007 :


(snipped from a David Aaronovich article in the Daily Mail, 19th May 2007 - with thanks to themaddiecasefiles.com)


Some university research being done by the Dutch with regards interfaith shrines :


(snipped from ru.nl with thanks)


Madeleine's 4th birthday being the date of the 90th anniversary of the Fatima apparitions -

- this is what makes me believe the events in Praia da Luz of Summer 2007 -

(right down to photogenic local church and Mary-a-like mother of missing Madeleine)

- were planned months or years in advance.


My opinion only.

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Re: Shrines and the McCanns

Post by LombardySkeptik on 30.01.15 23:50

But to what purpose misbeetle?

I'm always happy to consider new explanations for the madness strewn throughout this sorry tale but I can't quite make a connection between a planned event related to the poor girl and Fatima

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