Re: The Blue Sports Bag

by MaybeMaybenot 07.06.14 21:15

HelenMeg wrote:
tigger wrote:And here is the part from the Payne rog:

From the rogatory interview with David Payne re the missing tennis bag.

"What about a kit bag? Would they have a kit bag with them?”
Reply "Err he certainly didn’t have a great big tennis bag or a, you know, err I mean I used to be a squash, a semi-professional squash player and you know they certainly didn’t have anything that I would call a kit bag from days when I played…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "You know, a lot of sport, err if they had a rucksack with some water in that would be, you know, about as big as it got, you know a small rucksack. But it certainly wasn’t a big tennis, you know, things that you could put a tennis racquet in.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "It would have been something that had their water in.”
1485 "So as opposed to a bag it’d be something like a rucksack, if at all?”
Reply "If, if at all, yeah.” unquote

OK- all agreed then: point 6 on the agenda: when asked answer 'There was nothing of that size...etc'
Minutes of the Rothley meeting. November 2007. - purely fictional...
David gives the game away. He couldn't have made it more obvious if he'd tried.

Wow....Ive not seen this statement. Trying to break this down....
Why was he questioned about a bag if the bag disappeared. Am I behind on this ?
David GGS seems to be bringing it up.....Am I right ?

by Guest 07.06.14 22:06

MaybeMaybenot wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
tigger wrote:And here is the part from the Payne rog:

From the rogatory interview with David Payne re the missing tennis bag.

"What about a kit bag? Would they have a kit bag with them?”
Reply "Err he certainly didn’t have a great big tennis bag or a, you know, err I mean I used to be a squash, a semi-professional squash player and you know they certainly didn’t have anything that I would call a kit bag from days when I played…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "You know, a lot of sport, err if they had a rucksack with some water in that would be, you know, about as big as it got, you know a small rucksack. But it certainly wasn’t a big tennis, you know, things that you could put a tennis racquet in.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "It would have been something that had their water in.”
1485 "So as opposed to a bag it’d be something like a rucksack, if at all?”
Reply "If, if at all, yeah.” unquote

OK- all agreed then: point 6 on the agenda: when asked answer 'There was nothing of that size...etc'
Minutes of the Rothley meeting. November 2007. - purely fictional...
David gives the game away. He couldn't have made it more obvious if he'd tried.

Wow....Ive not seen this statement. Trying to break this down....
Why was he questioned about a bag if the bag disappeared. Am I behind on this ?
David GGS seems to be bringing it up.....Am I right ?

It's here:

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by canada12 07.06.14 22:21

Naz_Nomad wrote:I posted a similar comment earlier, but it looks like it "disappeared". Spooky!

I've heard the "Blue Bag" dismissed as "nothing but a blurry photo and internet myth".

Surely the PJ would have written an inventory of what was in the room, so somewhere there will be an a entry on a list something like :- "Large sports bag, blue, no logo, on shelf in cupboard"

Also CCTV at the airports would see if any of the McCann party had this bag. Luggage manifest on airline, CCTV in plane. Surely these would have been checked years ago, or is someone from the PJ or SY going to read this, slap their forehead and say "DOH!!. Airport CCTV. Plane CCTV. Written inventory!! DOH!!".

Well, if you did miss it, I hope this helped.

I'm sure they did that though. I'd hope so.

Plus there's a photo of the bag in the PJ inventory of pictures taken in 5A that night:
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by canada12 07.06.14 22:23

cassius wrote:

Which still begs the question why would GM carry the dead child in his arms rather than in the bag?

Either it was Gerry with another child, or it was someone else who bore a resemblance to Gerry, with another child.

by canada12 07.06.14 22:31

missmar1 wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
tigger wrote:And here is the part from the Payne rog:

From the rogatory interview with David Payne re the missing tennis bag.

"What about a kit bag? Would they have a kit bag with them?”
Reply "Err he certainly didn’t have a great big tennis bag or a, you know, err I mean I used to be a squash, a semi-professional squash player and you know they certainly didn’t have anything that I would call a kit bag from days when I played…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "You know, a lot of sport, err if they had a rucksack with some water in that would be, you know, about as big as it got, you know a small rucksack. But it certainly wasn’t a big tennis, you know, things that you could put a tennis racquet in.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "It would have been something that had their water in.”
1485 "So as opposed to a bag it’d be something like a rucksack, if at all?”
Reply "If, if at all, yeah.” unquote

David gives the game away. He couldn't have made it more obvious if he'd tried.
Agree with you...... " HIDE" what a clanger !

Exactly. Why would you want to even consider hiding anything in a bag, David? Unless you'd already thought about this a lot, and it was upmost in your mind when confronted with a question about the size of a bag.

by Guest 08.06.14 7:19

David was obviously aware of the point of the question.

They had all been briefed at the Rothley Hotel hadn't they?

Hymn sheets were handed out (probably).

by canada12 08.06.14 7:33

David Payne's really scrambling to fill in the blanks, though. All the interviewer is doing is asking him a simple question:
"What about a kit bag? Would they have a kit bag with them?”
And for a simple question, the answer David Payne is providing is very very elaborate. The interviewer is just commenting "Yeah" at each break in Payne's thoughts, and Payne seems to need to keep talking to justify and justify over and over what kind of bag it is. And with each break in thought, he digs himself in deeper. Why not just say, "I think they had a kit bag with them but it was small and would probably only be used for their water." Instead we have this elaborate description of how he used to play semi-pro squash, to lend credence to his assertion that he knows what kit bags look like, and how big they should be, or not be, or if it was a rucksack and not a kit bag, trying to make it seem a different type of object. Over-elaboration, trying to think of the consequences of what he's saying, and out comes the word "hide" in a ridiculous juxtaposition with "tennis racket". The interviewer, very wisely, just lets him ramble.

by Guest 08.06.14 7:42

I agree it he is overdoing it.

But like I said, because of the Rothley briefing he would have know instantly where the question was going (probably).

by Briohazard 08.06.14 8:24

At risk of sounding stupid, can I ask how it came to be that the bag is classified as 'missing'? It's one question that has niggled at me.

by Guest 08.06.14 8:31

Well it's never been seen since the photo.

So I guess it's missing from some points of view but perhaps not others.

by **PeterMac** 08.06.14 8:53

Briohazard wrote:At risk of sounding stupid, can I ask how it came to be that the bag is classified as 'missing'? It's one question that has niggled at me.

It is not stupid at all. It is a legitimate question, and one which is still confused - possibly deliberately
They seem to be denying that the was a bag, AND that it has gone missing. Which is odd.
And most of it is third hand, which is frustrating.

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It is revealed that police want to trace a blue tennis bag allegedly taken from Kate and Gerry McCann's apartment on the night Madeleine went missing. Detectives think the hold-all could have been used to carry Madeleine as she was taken away, or even to transport the three-year-old's body. It belonged to the girl's father but has not been seen since the night of May 3, according to a Sky News documentary due to be broadcast on Christmas Eve.

Expert Tony Rogers, who reviews unsolved cases for British police and worked on the Soham investigation, said: "If it's a bag of a size that could be used to take a child away from the flat, that would be of great interest to the investigating officer." But McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell flatly denied that Mr McCann had lost a bag during the family's holiday. He said: "As far as Kate and Gerry are concerned, there is no missing tennis bag. They came back from holiday with everything except of course, tragically, Madeleine."

Mr McCann told friends yesterday that he did not take any tennis equipment to Praia da Luz, and did not own a blue tennis bag. But Sky News stood by its story, which it said came from sources who had travelled to the resort after Madeleine's disappearance.

I wonder if that was Bruntie

by Guest 08.06.14 9:00

There is no question there was a bag.

There is no question that the Police have not seen it since 3rd May 2007.

It's missing from the PJ POV.

Others may know where it is.

by joyce1938 08.06.14 9:06

when I watched the filming of sniffer dogs with handler in 5a, I had distinct memory ,that the handler spoke about when the dogs were snffing corner of said room by sid of wardrobe , he said it could be that a cad. may not have been there in that area ,but that the smell could just congregate in a area like that . I truly don't recall the cupboard being the definite place ,I will be glad if petermac could just make that clear to us ? respectively joyce1938

by Guest 08.06.14 9:13

You can't watch it too many times.

by Guest 08.06.14 10:28

The dog goes in the room, smells the shelf immediately turns to bark at his owner.

This is to attract his attention - it did it behind the sofa as well, eye contact with the owner.

He does this but then at 2.14 he turns and looks at the shelf again and turns to make eye contact again.

So I don't think it's the general area being indicated.

by fossey 08.06.14 22:41

[size=36]Joana Morais
1.Everyone shall possess the right to freely express and publicise his thoughts in words, images or by any other means, as well as the right to inform others, inform himself and be informed without hindrance or discrimination 2.Exercise of the said rights shall not be hindered or limited by any type or form of censorship Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, Article 37.º

[/size]

8 June 2014

Quote of the Day

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[size]
«In that place the body would always decay. The issue with the bag is the following, Gerald McCann said at one point in time that he did not have any sports bag. Mark Harrison, an English expert, who did the planning of the searches that were carried out with the CSI dogs, of the cadaver odour and blood, at the ends of July, early August, puts forward that serious hypothesis - that the body was taken inside a sports bag, he speaks of a golf bag, of a sports bag – and indeed a sports bag existed. There are photographs taken inside the apartment [rented by the McCanns/5A] immediately after the disappearance, an hour later, and the sports bag is there, inside the closet and is of a darkish blue colour.

Thus, those photographs exist, contrary to what anyone can say that they did not own a sports bag – the sports bag was there. A sports bag, even though there wasn't any brand like “Adidas” in the bag, but it was a bag of that kind. So, what happened to that bag, what took place next, other situations ensued relatively to another bag, something that it’s not worth mentioning now here, there are people who also talk about a bag...

That cliff area is an important zone, several people talked about it, there were many important events that took place there, events that people saw and suspected, in the golf course area, in the path to the geodesic mark, all in that area. Therefore, it is an area where it is worthwhile to make a search again. But to be searched in the scope of an investigation that is reopened.»

- Gonçalo Amaral, in 'Gonçalo Amaral returns to Praia da Luz' at Querida Júlia [Dear Júlia] Morning Talk Show, broadcast by SIC, February 17, 2012 [/size]

by Watching 09.06.14 3:45

Fossy hope you don't mind I have re-posted this hopefully it will be a bit clearer.

Cheers

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Quote of the Day

8 JUNE 2014 | POSTED BY JOANA MORAIS LEAVE A COMMENT

«In that place the body would always decay. The issue with the bag is the following, Gerald McCann said at one point in time that he did not have any sports bag. Mark Harrison, an English expert, who did the planning of the searches that were carried out with the CSI dogs, of the cadaver odour and blood, at the ends of July, early August, puts forward that serious hypothesis - that the body was taken inside a sports bag, he speaks of a golf bag, of a sports bag – and indeed a sports bag existed. There are photographs taken inside the apartment [rented by the McCanns/5A] immediately after the disappearance, an hour later, and the sports bag is there, inside the closet and is of a darkish blue colour.

Thus, those photographs exist, contrary to what anyone can say that they did not own a sports bag – the sports bag was there. A sports bag, even though there wasn't any brand like “Adidas” in the bag, but it was a bag of that kind. So, what happened to that bag, what took place next, other situations ensued relatively to another bag, something that it’s not worth mentioning now here, there are people who also talk about a bag...

That cliff area is an important zone, several people talked about it, there were many important events that took place there, events that people saw and suspected, in the golf course area, in the path to the geodesic mark, all in that area. Therefore, it is an area where it is worthwhile to make a search again. But to be searched in the scope of an investigation that is reopened.» - Gonçalo Amaral.

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by kimHager 09.06.14 4:20

Who talked about a bag as goncalo Amaral says? Someone had to have saw something else..perhaps that what they were really doing at six am on may 4th...when the bewk mentioned they searched the trash bins....no they probably were covering up the toss out of the bag...imo

by Shhh 09.06.14 11:39

canada12 wrote:
cassius wrote:

Which still begs the question why would GM carry the dead child in his arms rather than in the bag?

Either it was Gerry with another child, or it was someone else who bore a resemblance to Gerry, with another child.

Russell with his "sick" daughter???

by j.rob 09.06.14 12:24

Reply "Err he certainly didn’t have a great big tennis bag or a, you know, err I mean I used to be a squash, a semi-professional squash player and you know they certainly didn’t have anything that I would call a kit bag from days when I played…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "You know, a lot of sport, err if they had a rucksack with some water in that would be, you know, about as big as it got, you know a small rucksack. But it certainly wasn’t a big tennis, you know, things that you could put a tennis racquet in.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "It would have been something that had their water in.”
1485 "So as opposed to a bag it’d be something like a rucksack, if at all?”
Reply "If, if at all, yeah.” unquote

Why would you need a rucksack just for a bottle of water? I can understand a rucksack for a bottle of water and other things. But just a bottle of water? That does not really make sense.

The comment about 'you could hide a, a tennis racquet in, or anything like that' is quite priceless. Why on earth would you use the word 'hide' in the context of a tennis racquet fitting in a bag or not? You would use the word 'hold'. I do believe that he probably meant to say 'nothing of a size that would hold a tennis racquet,' but his brain seeped information.

I do also find the water reference curious. '...if they had a rucksack with some water in that would be, you know, about as big as it got, you know a small rucksack.'

Why mention water? You don't normally associate the use of a rucksack with water. Sure, you might put a bottle of water in a rucksack, alongside other things. But if if is JUST a bottle or container of water you are more likely to hold it separately, or maybe have a specific water holder thing.

We know for a fact that Gerry talked a lot about playing tennis. Did he or did he not take his own tennis racquets on that trip. If he did take his own raquets (which seems likely if he was such a keen player) then how did he transport them? By what method did he transport them on the airline? And by what method did he take them from the apartment onto the tennis court?

Other thoughts:

References to water - sometimes associated with sexual abuse.

Reference to water - body fluids, frozen fluids melting.

by kimHager 09.06.14 12:42

Spot on j.rob I totally agree you don't hide a tennis racket. So we can assume we *may* know that this was possibly discussed with DP when the bag disappeared or he may know where it is but highly unlikely.

by HelenMeg 09.06.14 12:44

Reply "Err he certainly didn’t have a great big tennis bag or a, you know, err I mean I used to be a squash, a semi-professional squash player and you know they certainly didn’t have anything that I would call a kit bag from days when I played…”

Noone asked him if they had a 'great big tennis bag' so I infer from that that they did have a great big tennis bag and it is the one that was in the closet, that disappeared.

If they had not had a great big tennis bag that had to be hidden then he would have responded ' no, I don't remember them having a sports bag'. Quite simple, quite straightforward for anyone who is just stating the truth as they know it.

by Justformaddie 17.06.14 21:17

Funny, just reading the mccann files there and an email had been written a few days ago I think about maddies body is hidden in a blue bag and buried on private property, under a driveway. But, the email mentions the tapas 13? This person who sent the email to several persons told them not to delete the message because he's sure they will have to refer to it at a later date. Thing is, does anyone here have an idea who the tapas 13 would be? $i don\'t know$
Martin van wke or wky sent the email today!

by Guest 17.06.14 21:49

i think you mean martin van wyk

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so no need to store anything, google know how to find his history back very easily.

this story ends up with a stolen theory and info by the more famous mister birch and by his mouth under the drive way of murat.

by Justformaddie 17.06.14 21:54

onehand wrote:i think you mean martin van wyk

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so no need to store anything, google know how to find his history back very easily.

this story ends up with a stolen theory and info by the more famous mister birch and by his mouth under the drive way of murat.

Thank you onehand, I wonder why today again though. I'll go check it out. Does he mention who the tapas 13 are?

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