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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Post by Guest 16.12.13 12:35

Cherry Blossom wrote:.

GM, "almost perfectly formed" Were they ashamed of Madeleine? Is that why they turned her into a perfect photogenic child?

I can barely believe that he actually said that, even though I heard it with my own ears. You'd think he would be especially careful as he must know that the likes of us are poring over his every utterance!
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Post by Guest 16.12.13 13:04

Suep, I too have read about the increased risk of cerebral palsy.  There is also an increased risk when the child is a surviving twin.
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Post by Mirage 16.12.13 13:18

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:.

GM, "almost perfectly formed" Were they ashamed of Madeleine? Is that why they turned her into a perfect photogenic child?

I can barely believe that he actually said that, even though I heard it with my own ears. You'd think he would be especially careful as he must know that the likes of us are poring over his every utterance!

But then there are so many things GM has said/done that are every bit as, if not more, astounding. Eg, the following:

The good marketing ploy.
The losing of MM like finding yourself overdrawn on your student account.
The hoping for the best possible outcome for us, and Madeleine.
The sensing of someone in the apartment that night but leaving the children anyway.
Sucking a lolly and watching football while waiting for news of MM.
The Wider Agenda power point presentation.
The joking about on the balcony.
The jogging and tennis matches after MM disappeared.
The suppressed laughter when asked about emotional reaction to sightings.
The permanent smirking.
Ask the dogs Sandra.
The ripping off of microphone when challenged about the dogs' findings. (Justine McGuinness in background saying "Stick to the official line Gerry incidentally)
Confusion is good
Accusing the press of endangering MM without seeing the hopeless irony.
Telling Mrs Fenn a small girl had been abducted. 

The list is endless.

These remarks/behaviour only make sense within a particular context.
 IMO a perfectly diagnosable condition could be the gateway to solving this case if someone somewhere decided to grow some.
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Post by aiyoyo 16.12.13 13:24

"Almost perfectly formed" and refusal of Medical Records =  ?

There is no reason why records couldn't be provided for investigators unless the records were not almost normal and for unknown reason preferred not to be revealed.

Even hypothetically speaking say Madeleine suffers a condition what is wrong the records to Police?  How can there be a valid reason for hindering investigation?

One imagines the marketing of a almost perfectly formed chid is not the same as marketing a perfect blond photogenic child.
The former does not have the same pulling and selling factor as the other.
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Post by sallypelt 16.12.13 13:40

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:"Almost perfectly formed" and refusal of Medical Records =  ?  

There is no reason why records couldn't be provided for investigators unless the records were   not almost normal and for unknown reason preferred not to be revealed.

Even hypothetically speaking say Madeleine suffers a condition what is wrong the records to Police?  How can there be a valid reason for hindering investigation?

One imagines the marketing of a almost perfectly formed chid is not the same as marketing a perfect blond photogenic child.
The former does not have the same pulling and selling factor as the other.


Well, we know that there was one part of Madeleine's anatomy that WAS perfect, as Kate pointed out in her book.
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Post by aiyoyo 16.12.13 14:20

Seems Gerry & Kate are obssessed with her perfection, or her lack of maybe in certain area physically, that they both separately talked of it.

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Post by aiyoyo 16.12.13 14:24

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:In that photo, all I noticed is the glass of white wine in her right hand.......

First time I've blown that one up. It's Kate's body, Kate's head but not from the same photograph.
Clear and weird blurring on the chin, neck and head not properly merged.
Kate has a very long neck, but almost as wide as her face. Only sideways does the neck look slender.
The hairdo isidentical to the one with Gerry, where he is pasted in complete with a picture on the wall behind him.
So two 'arranged' family/new mum pictures. The difference between the family baby and this one is another story again.

Actually, you're right - her neck does appear masculine in that photo, almost as if she's a transvestite
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Post by suep 16.12.13 15:48

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Suep, I too have read about the increased risk of cerebral palsy.  There is also an increased risk when the child is a surviving twin.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind too.
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Post by bobbin 16.12.13 22:22

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Suep, I too have read about the increased risk of cerebral palsy.  There is also an increased risk when the child is a surviving twin.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind too.
Very, very rarely IVF can result in two implanted embryos combining to make one person instead of the intended two, and if they were a male and female zygote, then the markers would show both XX and XY chromosomes. At one stage there was some confusion over Maddie's blood, some mention of it seeming to be as if from 3 people, or words to that effect. It seems strange that Maddie was not one of two implantations as were her subsequent siblings. With medical records withheld, the police cannot know enough to be able to ascertain the essential facts.
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Post by Hicks 16.12.13 22:43

Are there any photos of Kate during her pregnancy with Madeleine, or the twins?

I have pondered on the fact that Kate could have used a surrogate mother. Could this be the reason Kate's medical records were denied to the PJ? I would imagine -though I don't know the legality- that such an arrangement would remain secret should they so wish. 

It would also explain Kate's behaviour. There is a real lack of emotion when talking or recalling stories about Madeleine. As we have all witnessed there are many examples but this little gem I find incredulous. During Crimewatch the MC'S were asked if there was a Madeleine shaped hole in their lives, the reply? Kate missed her on special occasions!

I am convinced that Madeleine sadly died in the apartment that night due to neglect. It is my opinion that the neglect came about due to the rather poor relationship between M and her parents... for what ever reason.

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Post by Guest 16.12.13 23:01

I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...
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Post by Daisy 16.12.13 23:17

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Are there any photos of Kate during her pregnancy with Madeleine, or the twins?

I have pondered on the fact that Kate could have used a surrogate mother. Could this be the reason Kate's medical records were denied to the PJ? I would imagine -though I don't know the legality- that such an arrangement would remain secret should they so wish. 
.

I've never seen a photo of a pregnant Kate. Of course that doesn't mean one doesn't exist.  I just think they've lost out on a good marketing ploy by not using said photos if they do exist.

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Post by suep 17.12.13 7:31

Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.

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Post by Guest 17.12.13 8:28

@suep wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.


If this was the case, what was the source of the heel prick card? When you start to ask questions like this you do start to wonder if the entire plan was conceived even before Madeleine was.

Yes, I am that cynical.
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Post by bobbin 17.12.13 8:38

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.


If this was the case, what was the source of the heel prick card? When you start to ask questions like this you do start to wonder if the entire plan was conceived even before Madeleine was.

Yes, I am that cynical.
Given that there is no explanation for anything to date and all possibilities need to be put into the boiling pot to find the one truthful ingredient, how do the dates correspond for Oisin McCann's birth. Musing about surrogate, missing twin embryo....???
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Post by ultimaThule 17.12.13 8:54

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.


It's on a par with Gerry saying 'the situation we find ourselves in' followed by way of afterthought 'and the situation Madeleine finds herself in' as if the child had waited until her parents had gone out for the night before calling a cab and taking herself off to a paedophile lair in the hills surrounding Luz..

The level of detachment  from their firstborn child exhibited by McCanns is unnerving; I can't recall seeing anything like it before and certainly not in public by parents who would have the world believe their child was abducted by person(s) unknown from her bed..
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Post by Roamin 17.12.13 9:04

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.


If this was the case, what was the source of the heel prick card? When you start to ask questions like this you do start to wonder if the entire plan was conceived even before Madeleine was.

Yes, I am that cynical.

That makes at least 2 of us being that cynical. I am even considering whether Madeleine actually existed at all.

I know that sounds bizarre, but think about it. All the evidence to support Madeleine being anywhere at any given time in her life has been presented by her parents, all the dodgy photo's etc. When you look at things like the Jamie Bulger crime, independant cctv was used to jog public memory and show an element of what went on.

Then you think about it again, for a child up to the age of 3-4, it is quite easy to have no supporting independant evidence of existence(especially if the parents happen to be Doctors).

Did Madeleine attend nursery at home? If not, then here comes the difficult bit, School.

So did a phantom pregnancy/child have to disappear? They have the twins now.

This then puts into context all the bizarre un parent like behaviour.

The dogs you all shout!!

Is it not easier for people in the medical profession to plant cadaver and similar body fluids, than make a real child disappear into thin air? As the police may have found, there may never be enough evidence to convict anybody of anything.

Then there are all the people who have been made to look like complete idiots taken in by the charade/fraud, vested interests to make it all just go away.

Sorry! that was a mad ramble of my current thoughts, brought on by a canary   laughat 

All allegedly and not a shred of evidence, please feel free to dismantle   pop2
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Post by ultimaThule 17.12.13 9:29

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:In that photo, all I noticed is the glass of white wine in her right hand.......

First time I've blown that one up. It's Kate's body, Kate's head but not from the same photograph.
Clear and weird blurring on the chin, neck and head not properly merged.
Kate has a very long neck, but almost as wide as her face. Only sideways does the neck look slender.
The hairdo isidentical to the one with Gerry, where he is pasted in complete with a picture on the wall behind him.
So two 'arranged' family/new mum pictures. The difference between the family baby and this one is another story again.

Not for the first time, KM's androngynous looks and masculine body shape has caused me to wonder whether androgen insensitivity syndrome is a possibility.

With regard to the baby in the 'glass of wine' photo, it has the looks of GM/his sisters whereas photos of what is alleged to be Madeleine show a child whose looks favour KM.
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Post by bobbin 17.12.13 9:35

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.


If this was the case, what was the source of the heel prick card? When you start to ask questions like this you do start to wonder if the entire plan was conceived even before Madeleine was.

Yes, I am that cynical.

That makes at least 2 of us being that cynical. I am even considering whether Madeleine actually existed at all.

I know that sounds bizarre, but think about it. All the evidence to support Madeleine being anywhere at any given time in her life has been presented by her parents, all the dodgy photo's etc. When you look at things like the Jamie Bulger crime, independant cctv was used to jog public memory and show an element of what went on.

Then you think about it again, for a child up to the age of 3-4, it is quite easy to have no supporting independant evidence of existence(especially if the parents happen to be Doctors).

Did Madeleine attend nursery at home? If not, then here comes the difficult bit, School.

So did a phantom pregnancy/child have to disappear? They have the twins now.

This then puts into context all the bizarre un parent like behaviour.

The dogs you all shout!!

Is it not easier for people in the medical profession to plant cadaver and similar body fluids, than make a real child disappear into thin air? As the police may have found, there may never be enough evidence to convict anybody of anything.

Then there are all the people who have been made to look like complete idiots taken in by the charade/fraud, vested interests to make it all just go away.

Sorry! that was a mad ramble of my current thoughts, brought on by a canary   laughat 

All allegedly and not a shred of evidence, please feel free to dismantle   pop2

I DO believe that Madeleine existed and for one simple reason only.
Kate's father, who seems to be the one and only 'human' being in this whole shebang, is to my mind GENUINELY bereft and suffering from the loss of his little grand-daughter, who I believe was the little light of his life. I see nothing but sheer pain and perplexed distress in his now weakened condition.  sad 
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Post by Guest 17.12.13 10:27

@bobbin wrote:
@suep wrote:
@Ladyinred wrote:Suep, I too have read about the increased risk of cerebral palsy.  There is also an increased risk when the child is a surviving twin.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind too.
Very, very rarely IVF can result in two implanted embryos combining to make one person instead of the intended two, and if they were a male and female zygote, then the markers would show both XX and XY chromosomes. At one stage there was some confusion over Maddie's blood, some mention of it seeming to be as if from 3 people, or words to that effect. It seems strange that Maddie was not one of two implantations as were her subsequent siblings. With medical records withheld, the police cannot know enough to be able to ascertain the essential facts.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199801153380305

Bobbin, do you know that there were not two implantations.  I believe there were two, as is usual in IVF, and one embryo did not survive early in the pregnancy.  IMO.
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Post by bobbin 17.12.13 11:02

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Suep, I too have read about the increased risk of cerebral palsy.  There is also an increased risk when the child is a surviving twin.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind too.
Very, very rarely IVF can result in two implanted embryos combining to make one person instead of the intended two, and if they were a male and female zygote, then the markers would show both XX and XY chromosomes. At one stage there was some confusion over Maddie's blood, some mention of it seeming to be as if from 3 people, or words to that effect. It seems strange that Maddie was not one of two implantations as were her subsequent siblings. With medical records withheld, the police cannot know enough to be able to ascertain the essential facts.
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Bobbin, do you know that there were not two implantations.  I believe there were two, as is usual in IVF, and one embryo did not survive early in the pregnancy.  IMO.
No, Ladyinred, I do not recall having seen any reference to whether Kate had one, two, or more implantations.
I only know from experience with other young women undergoing IVF that several implantations are systematically made at the same time, in the expectation that not all will survive to full term and the psychological / emotional distraction is very great each time a pregnancy fails to occur, so know therefore that several options are implanted to ensure that with any hope, at least one will make the journey.
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Post by Guest 17.12.13 11:11

Yes, I agree with you, Bobbin.  I believe Madeleine "made the journey", i.e. was the surviving twin.
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Post by suep 17.12.13 11:58

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.


If this was the case, what was the source of the heel prick card? When you start to ask questions like this you do start to wonder if the entire plan was conceived even before Madeleine was.

Yes, I am that cynical.

The heel prick is usually done soon after birth to test for phenylketonuria (I think) so with all this talk of a 'heel prick card' I'm presuming the drop of blood is smeared on a card and sent for testing. I had no idea this was retained anywhere once the test was done but if it is it would probably be kept in the baby's medical notes which would have been created at birth.These notes would then be kept at the hospital where the baby was born, in the medical records department.(GP medical records are a separate record entirely). Someone must have informed the PJ of the existence of this heel prick card for them to request it...or did they request it? I'm a bit hazy about this. What worries me is who went to get it? Who handed it over to them? Is there a credible chain of evidence record for it? There should be statements in the files to show this. The other worrying aspect of this bit of the story for me is the appearance of the pillowcase with Madeleine's saliva on it. This must have been at the Rothley house so was it GM or a family member who produced that and vouched for it being the genuine article? Surely not. For me the whole issue of the DNA evidence is compromised if the production into evidence of those samples had anything to do with the McC family.
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Post by Guest 17.12.13 14:00

The forensic reports are clear on one thing: the DNA taken from the Rothley pillow was of a natural child of both McCanns, it was female and it was NOT Amelie.

ETA I'm with you, Bobbin. Grandpa Healy wasn't lying, when talking about Madeleine. She did exist.
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Post by Roamin 17.12.13 14:26

Châtelaine wrote:The forensic reports are clear on one thing: the DNA taken from the Rothley pillow was of a natural child of both McCanns, it was female and it was NOT Amelie.

ETA I'm with you, Bobbin. Grandpa Healy wasn't lying, when talking about Madeleine. She did exist.


That in a sense is good news for me, as I was begiining to seriously doubt Madeleines existence. The forensics, hopefully untainted, clear that up. Thank you


Now, was Madeleine in Portugal? The rest of the doubt still applies, the dogs (planted evidence, brought from UK?), lots of little blonde girls in pink, some dedringers for Madeleine, which one was Madeleine. No airport cctv, where are all the boarding cards, tickets, immigration control etc.


Has all the info from all the businesses, airlines, credit cards, etc, been collated? In 6 months time businesses can trash this stuff as 7 years is up (length of time to keep records)


Sorry if a bit of a hijack. I have complete respect for all you are doing, light needs  to be shone in all the dark corners


 
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