Re: Missing Tia Sharp

by aiyoyo 16.08.12 16:37

PeterMac wrote:
HAVEYOUFEDTHECAT wrote:Last night reading the posts on here, made me feel very sad about the whole thing. As we discuss the decomposition of corpses and other unsavoury things let us reflect for a moment that in a Mortuary somewhere in London there lies a child of no more than twelve years old who has been robbed of her life, future and the hope of better things to come. I could cry for this child right now and wish her safe passage wherever she is.
I thank you.
Sadly she was from a totally dysfunctional family, on a sink estate, and her "future and hope of better things to come" were all too plainly marked out.
There was a ghastly inevitability about her future.

Sadly you are so right.

by DLinne8 16.08.12 16:40

Smokeandmirrors wrote:SInce there is discussion around the time of the reporting Tia missing, the phone issue and the loft which seem to be a very ill thought out response to whatever happened, something just this minute occurred to me, and I thought I'd share and see what others think.

HASTEN TO ADD IT IS ALL PURELY SPECULATION AND HYPOTHESIS STEMMING FROM SOME INFO IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN

Tia being only 12 is quite likely to have wanted to meet a friend at the shops, as it is not uncommon for young girls to feel self-conscious on their own in a town centre, and indeed, at 12 it is unlikely that going to the shops without a grown up had been going on for too long. It was said by Tia's Uncle, in effect, that although she knew her way around, she was still a little girl, and we have no reason not to take this at face value.

SH also used the noise of a hoover not to listen properly to her, and she was saying she was off to meet a friend etc according to him, rather woolly explanation.

So it is highly likely that she had arranged to meet a schoolfriend at the shops and it had possibly been talked about on the Thursday, asking if it was OK or whatever, and SH allegedly giving her £10 and so on.

Now, something obviously happened to Tia Thurs/Fri, I'm guessing Friday morning at the moment. What if a friend who was going to meet Tia got worried when she didn't turn up or answer her phone? At 12 it is quite likely that the possible friend would have phoned her own mum, or might have had NS's phone number, or their mum's had each others phone numbers. Just guessing and all hypothetical.

What if NS's phone started ringing AFTER poor Tia's demise, but only just, SH might have suddenly remembered Tia saying she was meeting someone at the shops, after the drama of what might have happened, and all of a sudden there could be worried mum's, friends and the like trying to find Tia much earlier than we have been informed so far.

This would therefore cut far shorter any windows of opportunity that were available and necessitate even more of a frantic response. But it MIGHT have given him the idea for his story, and also been his downfall at the same time. I think it somehow (the lies, stories, hiding place etc) all hinges around the phone situation.

ALL PURELY SPECULATIVE

Interesting, and is definitely a possibility for why NS was informed so quickly. But wouldn't it have been in the media, if this was the case?

by DLinne8 16.08.12 16:47

Factors affecting rate of decomposition:

http://library-resources.cqu.edu.au/JFS/PDF/vol_35/iss_1/JFS351900103.pdf

"The first area to decay (be removed by maggots) in unembalmed bodies is the face"

by **PeterMac** 16.08.12 16:48

It is not the fact of living on an estate like that.
It is the fact that these children are conceived without any real thought having been given to their future, by people who are in a transient relationship, have no lifetime commitment to each other, have no means of providing for the health needs, educational needs, or housing needs of the children - believing instead that it is all "Free".
The children grow up in households which have no formal structure, and where one or other parent is likely to be replaced from time to time by another.
They therefore learn that there are no rules applying to anyone.
If the school seeks to impose a norm of behaviour, then whoever is acting as "parent" at the time can be guaranteed to ensure that they never do so again, by threats of physical violence if necessary.
They grow up in conditions of squalor, where unkempt gardens are normal, and unmade beds and un-ironed clothing in a heap in the corner of the living room is normal.
And that is the problem.
They know no different, and there is no one to teach them that life can be different; that sexual continence is actually more rewarding than casual promiscuity: that coming home to a clean home and a neatly made bed is 'nicer' than the alternative; that there is a pleasure in seeing a neat garden with growing flowers and a clean path and doorstep rather than an old bedstead and broken washing machine.
This is normal, and that perceived normality cascades down the generations.
My grandfather and my father and aunt lived on a council estate. They were actually grateful for the three bedroom semi they had been allocated, and looked after it as well as they possibly could. It is not the housing which makes slums, it is the people. Slum clearance schemes have proved that time after time. Wherever you put those people, they will do the same. Squatters will trash a palace in minutes, even though they intend to live there.
To call it a "sink estate" is merely a convenient shorthand, it does not imply that the housing is itself the problem.

by Smokeandmirrors 16.08.12 16:48

Well I would have thought that anything that would actually provide a case for the prosecution or defence for that matter, would be strictly out of bounds for the media. Something like people phoning or trying to find Tia, had she hypothetically not turned up to meet a friend at a given time, could help pinpoint time of death, disprove an alibi or goodness knows what. The prosecution will need to set out before the jury facts which are beyond all reasonable doubt, or the guy goes free, if indeed he is found to be guilty. And anyone else in the loop, would be called as a witness surely.

by **PeterMac** 16.08.12 16:51

Smokeandmirrors wrote:SNIP The prosecution will need to set out before the jury facts which are beyond all reasonable doubt, or the guy goes free, if indeed he is found to be guilty. And anyone else in the loop, would be called as a witness surely.

The police will take literally hundreds of statements from everyone and anyone they think might be remotely involved. Partly to prevent the defence coming up with a mystery witness who says something different. That is another reason why the preparation of the prosecution case takes time. The CPS / DPP will only go ahead when they are sure that every angle has been covered.

by DLinne8 16.08.12 17:16

Smokeandmirrors wrote:Well I would have thought that anything that would actually provide a case for the prosecution or defence for that matter, would be strictly out of bounds for the media. Something like people phoning or trying to find Tia, had she hypothetically not turned up to meet a friend at a given time, could help pinpoint time of death, disprove an alibi or goodness knows what. The prosecution will need to set out before the jury facts which are beyond all reasonable doubt, or the guy goes free, if indeed he is found to be guilty. And anyone else in the loop, would be called as a witness surely.

How could Tia not turning up at a certain time in Croydon indicate a time of death? I'm sorry but I don't see how your theory, although possible, could have any effect on the case.

by Julchen 16.08.12 17:23

Hi there,
I watched the video on Youtube about these convicted killers' interviews. Chilling.
While watching I recalled SH's interview.
Just to give me a peace of mind, how about:
One of the longest, most explicit and emphasized bits is the one about hoovering/cleaning....
As I said before, we live in an ex council semi. The wall between the two halves is so thin that you can easily listen to next door's conversations.
These people must hate me for hours of practicing music(O/T).
If we have to have an important conversation which we don't want to have overheard or even noticed by next door we put on classical music to drown our voices in preferably choir music.
What if there really was a lot of noisy hoovering going on on that morning? To cover up the noise of e.g. loft access being opened etc. or moving furniture (or a body) around?
I don't know whether this thought has any value or significance but you will surely tell me?

Jule

by Ribisl 16.08.12 17:27

Nina wrote:
HAVEYOUFEDTHECAT wrote:Last night reading the posts on here, made me feel very sad about the whole thing. As we discuss the decomposition of corpses and other unsavoury things let us reflect for a moment that in a Mortuary somewhere in London there lies a child of no more than twelve years old who has been robbed of her life, future and the hope of better things to come. I could cry for this child right now and wish her safe passage wherever she is.

I thank you.

I agree with everything you say, and thank you for reminding me.

My sentiment entirely. I see no merit in getting carried away with morbid speculation over the poor girl's death while the police investigation is still ongoing.

by **tigger** 16.08.12 17:32

PeterMac wrote:It is not the fact of living on an estate like that.
It is the fact that these children are conceived without any real thought having been given to their future, by people who are in a transient relationship, have no lifetime commitment to each other, have no means of providing for the health needs, educational needs, or housing needs of the children - believing instead that it is all "Free".
The children grow up in households which have no formal structure, and where one or other parent is likely to be replaced from time to time by another.
They therefore learn that there are no rules applying to anyone.
If the school seeks to impose a norm of behaviour, then whoever is acting as "parent" at the time can be guaranteed to ensure that they never do so again, by threats of physical violence if necessary.
They grow up in conditions of squalor, where unkempt gardens are normal, and unmade beds and un-ironed clothing in a heap in the corner of the living room is normal.
And that is the problem.
They know no different, and there is no one to teach them that life can be different; that sexual continence is actually more rewarding than casual promiscuity: that coming home to a clean home and a neatly made bed is 'nicer' than the alternative; that there is a pleasure in seeing a neat garden with growing flowers and a clean path and doorstep rather than an old bedstead and broken washing machine.
This is normal, and that perceived normality cascades down the generations.
My grandfather and my father and aunt lived on a council estate. They were actually grateful for the three bedroom semi they had been allocated, and looked after it as well as they possibly could. It is not the housing which makes slums, it is the people. Slum clearance schemes have proved that time after time. Wherever you put those people, they will do the same. Squatters will trash a palace in minutes, even though they intend to live there.
To call it a "sink estate" is merely a convenient shorthand, it does not imply that the housing is itself the problem.

That's exactly the problem. Added to that the concept of 'self respect' is seemingly out of fashion. TV soaps teach them that conflict of any kind means shouting and violence. They copy what they see on a daily basis.
I posted earlier that my niece lives in housing rather like the one that Tia did. But it looks lovely, gardens in bloom. Doors painted jolly colours. It costs next to nothing to keep it looking good.

by tiny 16.08.12 17:56

I also noticed the bloat when they carried tia out.poor child

by Invinoveritas 16.08.12 17:57

DLinne8 wrote:

are you sure that dental records were required to identify the body?

Have you got a link?

by DLinne8 16.08.12 17:58

Invinoveritas wrote:
DLinne8 wrote:.

are you sure that dental records were required to identify the body?

Have you got a link?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2189195/Tia-Sharp-latest-Body-identified-dental-records-decomposition.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

by Woof 16.08.12 18:04

tigger wrote: Perhaps SH sat on it for one more night, but by the following day police and press besieged the house 24/7. By that time the grandmother must have been complicit. The body was possibly moved to next door's attic and when the dogs had been round on the Wednesday, they might have thought they'd got away with it.

Tigger, I'm wondering what's making you think she was aware? I can't see it.

by Guest 16.08.12 18:06

DLinne8 - I have deleted your posts on decompostion, far to graphic and not necessary. Can we please have some respect for this poor dead girl! Posts that have had your quote included have been deleted too. I am shocked you find decompostion a beautiful process.

.

by uppatoffee 16.08.12 18:15

Someone asked about Tia's step siblings, I would imagine their case would be opened and child protection enquiries will be carried out along with a core assessment. However given the fact that the major risk factor has been removed, I should think that it is most likely that they will stay with their parents.

by DLinne8 16.08.12 18:22

candyfloss wrote:DLinne8 - I have deleted your posts on decompostion, far to graphic and not necessary. Can we please have some respect for this poor dead girl! Posts that have had your quote included have been deleted too. I am shocked you find decompostion a beautiful process.

.

I'm shocked that you don't!

by Guest 16.08.12 18:34

I think you'll find that you're in a minority here, DLinne8!

by aquarius2 16.08.12 18:41

Also quoted in that Daily Mail article:

Scotland Yard admitted that her body was missed during an earlier search due to 'human error' and apologised to her mother Natalie, 31. A senior officer suggested it may have been moved before a dog trained to detect blood and decomposition eventually raised the alarm.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2189195/Tia-Sharp-latest-Body-identified-dental-records-decomposition.html#ixzz23jRFAx51

by Invinoveritas 16.08.12 19:16

DLinne8 wrote:
candyfloss wrote:DLinne8 - I have deleted your posts on decompostion, far to graphic and not necessary. Can we please have some respect for this poor dead girl! Posts that have had your quote included have been deleted too. I am shocked you find decompostion a beautiful process.

.

I'm shocked that you don't!

DLinne8, have you ever been to let´s say a road accident with one or two fatalities, I have, have you ever responded to a 999 call at somebody´s home after the mother died?, I have, have you ever been to a drowning after the person has been missing for three days?, I have, I have met people who wanted to become invalids and had waited all night for the milk train to come along and to sever the leg that they had lain across the track, I seek nothing from you, just respect for the dead, as sad as it is, I don´t do Tabloids

my apologies if I have stepped out of line

by Cretan 16.08.12 19:40

PeterMac wrote:
HAVEYOUFEDTHECAT wrote:Last night reading the posts on here, made me feel very sad about the whole thing. As we discuss the decomposition of corpses and other unsavoury things let us reflect for a moment that in a Mortuary somewhere in London there lies a child of no more than twelve years old who has been robbed of her life, future and the hope of better things to come. I could cry for this child right now and wish her safe passage wherever she is.
I thank you.
Sadly she was from a totally dysfunctional family, on a sink estate, and her "future and hope of better things to come" were all too plainly marked out.
There was a ghastly inevitability about her future.

First post. I felt compelled to sign up, frankly, after wading through 87 pages of by and large uninformed detritus and bilge.

I am surprised (not) at PeterMac's abhorrent arrogant "copper" attitudes. The fact that he took pleasure in keeping you all waiting, whilst he played mindgames with you all, saying he "knew" what had happened "in the attic" :- basking in the glory...

Of what?

Dear oh dear oh dear...

I trust all you "sleuths" know that Tia was "special needs"?

Her grandmother was a carer specialising in autism care.

Tia went to Raynes Park school.

Raynes Park:

http://www.merton.gov.uk/learning/schools/schoolsdirectory/secondaryschools/raynesparkhighschool.htm

SEN Provision for pupils with communication difficulties on the Autistic Spectrum who have statements of special educational needs.

Figure it out you "sleuths" - if you can't get this one right, what snowball's chance in Hell does Maddie have?

Why do you think Tia stayed at Gran's every weekend? To give her mother a break, perhaps? Why dis the real father state "she called me dad" the last time they spoke?

I am quite frankly disgusted with most of you. You have hung, drawn and quartered what is in all likelihood a patsy. Just like Huntley - and before you all start off, Huntley was a grade 1 AAA patsy.

I suggest you "sleuths" all bone up on Hollie Grieg and Haute de la Garenne.

Pay particular attention to Lenny Harper, and extrapolate.

by grove39 16.08.12 19:45

Cretan wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
HAVEYOUFEDTHECAT wrote:Last night reading the posts on here, made me feel very sad about the whole thing. As we discuss the decomposition of corpses and other unsavoury things let us reflect for a moment that in a Mortuary somewhere in London there lies a child of no more than twelve years old who has been robbed of her life, future and the hope of better things to come. I could cry for this child right now and wish her safe passage wherever she is.
I thank you.
Sadly she was from a totally dysfunctional family, on a sink estate, and her "future and hope of better things to come" were all too plainly marked out.
There was a ghastly inevitability about her future.

First post. I felt compelled to sign up, frankly, after wading through 87 pages of by and large uninformed detritus and bilge.

I am surprised (not) at PeterMac's abhorrent arrogant "copper" attitudes. The fact that he took pleasure in keeping you all waiting, whilst he played mindgames with you all, saying he "knew" what had happened "in the attic" :- basking in the glory...

Of what?

Dear oh dear oh dear...

I trust all you "sleuths" know that Tia was "special needs"?

Her grandmother was a carer specialising in autism care.

Tia went to Raynes Park school.

Raynes Park:

http://www.merton.gov.uk/learning/schools/schoolsdirectory/secondaryschools/raynesparkhighschool.htm

SEN Provision for pupils with communication difficulties on the Autistic Spectrum who have statements of special educational needs.

Figure it out you "sleuths" - if you can't get this one right, what snowball's chance in Hell does Maddie have?

Why do you think Tia stayed at Gran's every weekend? To give her mother a break, perhaps? Why dis the real father state "she called me dad" the last time they spoke?

I am quite frankly disgusted with most of you. You have hung, drawn and quartered what is in all likelihood a patsy. Just like Huntley - and before you all start off, Huntley was a grade 1 AAA patsy.

I suggest you "sleuths" all bone up on Hollie Grieg and Haute de la Garenne.

Pay particular attention to Lenny Harper, and extrapolate.

it just states "Provision for pupils with communication difficulties on the Autistic Spectrum who have statements of special educational needs."

that doesnt mean she was as the school also teaches kids with no problems at all going by what the website says

even my own kids school has a provision for the same and more but there's nothing wrong with any of my kids

by tiny 16.08.12 19:55

Cretan wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
HAVEYOUFEDTHECAT wrote:Last night reading the posts on here, made me feel very sad about the whole thing. As we discuss the decomposition of corpses and other unsavoury things let us reflect for a moment that in a Mortuary somewhere in London there lies a child of no more than twelve years old who has been robbed of her life, future and the hope of better things to come. I could cry for this child right now and wish her safe passage wherever she is.
I thank you.
Sadly she was from a totally dysfunctional family, on a sink estate, and her "future and hope of better things to come" were all too plainly marked out.
There was a ghastly inevitability about her future.

First post. I felt compelled to sign up, frankly, after wading through 87 pages of by and large uninformed detritus and bilge.

I am surprised (not) at PeterMac's abhorrent arrogant "copper" attitudes. The fact that he took pleasure in keeping you all waiting, whilst he played mindgames with you all, saying he "knew" what had happened "in the attic" :- basking in the glory...

Of what?

Dear oh dear oh dear...

I trust all you "sleuths" know that Tia was "special needs"?

Her grandmother was a carer specialising in autism care.

Tia went to Raynes Park school.

Raynes Park:

http://www.merton.gov.uk/learning/schools/schoolsdirectory/secondaryschools/raynesparkhighschool.htm

SEN Provision for pupils with communication difficulties on the Autistic Spectrum who have statements of special educational needs.

Figure it out you "sleuths" - if you can't get this one right, what snowball's chance in Hell does Maddie have?

Why do you think Tia stayed at Gran's every weekend? To give her mother a break, perhaps? Why dis the real father state "she called me dad" the last time they spoke?

I am quite frankly disgusted with most of you. You have hung, drawn and quartered what is in all likelihood a patsy. Just like Huntley - and before you all start off, Huntley was a grade 1 AAA patsy.

I suggest you "sleuths" all bone up on Hollie Grieg and Haute de la Garenne.

Pay particular attention to Lenny Harper, and extrapolate