Where would a body be hidden?

I think the McCann's are A la Carte Catholics who choose which rules to observe and which to ignore, favouring the services where the community worships them, gives them respect and the Pope publicity stunt.They ignore certain rules like IVF etc. I still think that the Catholic card was forced when she called for a priest in the early hours of 4th, I think that's the only one thing that was genuine and there's only one reason to call for a priest.

Strangely, I believe Gerry when he says "there is no evidence", he seems very sure that Madeleine won't be found.

tigger wrote:

jd wrote:There is what is known as "the Triangle'....which is 3 places GM regularly drove to in Portugal in the days & weeks after Maddie was reported abducted (KM never went with him)...Not sure the exact places but there is a topic about it on here and else where

Hi JD, this is a little off topic, but I thought you'd be interested.
MW seems to be rather a facilitator. Jon Corner I must check up on as well.
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Thanks Tigger, its a long read! I'll read it and post some comments

rainbow-fairy wrote:Thank you for the reply re the dogs. I thought I was mistaken about the month as it seemed to soon to me after the 'abduction'.

I have decided now after much thought that the only part of the theory I really see the logic of is the date of burial - I think it makes the best sense, seeing as the media were caught up in the Pope frenzy.

I am wondering, do you have an idea where she could be, you say you think the truth is quite simple? I think starting a thread on it could be good. I'm sure you'll have plenty of debate! And if the trolls pile in, you'll know you're on the money! I notice that the trolls only attack certain threads - the ones that hit too close to home, IMHO.

I believe this is a scam that was set up before April 2007 and there is no body because Maddie was never there, but will always look at other theories including an accident which killed Maddie in the apartment etc. They could have had the sign made in Portugal quite easily, its not something only the British can make (its just a big sign after all & they had all the powers behind them to do what they needed as and when), and save all the aggro of driving a lorry down there. If there was a body then they had to get it home depending on what they did with it before May 3rd. They might have hidden somewhere which could have been found a later date and the only safe way is to get it back to the UK, especially with the amount of world media and public on the case...they couldn't leave no stone unturned

PeterMac wrote:

jd wrote:If you were in a situation where you had to get a body back to the UK undetected from the worlds eyes, then this lorry & cover story would be a good solution...and probably the only one too

Yeeess ! Except that it now includes at least two more people in the conspiracy. And blunts Occam's Razor.

Charlotte Pennington is another one included in the conspiracy. Her ability to be at the wrong place at the wrong time in 48 hours is absolutely stunning. Not to mention her eyesight on a dark beach in the middle of the night spotting Murat kicking an object in a small rowing boat out at sea...hilarious, we are supposed to even think about believing something like this

tigger wrote:

Stewie wrote:

tigger wrote:

That's why I think if she died the 1st May, I have three correlations out of four.
Observances:
Prayer 3rd day after demise - 3/4 may Kate/Gerry asks for the church, as they want to pray
Prayers 9th day -??

If day 9 is 10 May then the McCanns had prayers at the church in PDL on that day - a specially arranged prayer and communion. This is from the Telegraph on 10 May 2007 and it also has a picture of the service:

The McCanns, who are practising Catholics, have drawn support from their faith and from family and friends, those close to the family said today. Today, Madeleine's mother led villagers and holidaymakers in prayer for her missing daughter at a specially arranged prayer and communion at the local church in the Algarve village of Praia Da Luz.

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Thanks Stewie, what do you think? I think all this gave street cred to the myth of accident(al overdose) to the family and those who needed to be in the know. And Kate is very insistent in interviews and in the book about this religious fervour of hers. It's sort of: Look, we hid her body, but we've done everything else right!

I've come to agree that it is likely she went earlier than 3 May. Don't think the McCanns are as religious as they paint themselves - they do seem to be able to turn it on and off as the occasion requires.

I like the theory you're shaping up but somehow can't understand how family members and those in the know can still toe the line after so long.. if it's about money for them, then unless they've had a large slice of the fund pie, then there would be more money to be gained from spilling all to the tabloids - would make a sensational story.

Unless those in the know are in danger of being implicated themselves.. maybe someone is put down as named driver of a car even though they didn't actually drive the car until later... and the car is found to contain cadaver odour... on paper, you are implicated because you are a named driver... maybe that's how it works...

jd wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:Thank you for the reply re the dogs. I thought I was mistaken about the month as it seemed to soon to me after the 'abduction'.

I have decided now after much thought that the only part of the theory I really see the logic of is the date of burial - I think it makes the best sense, seeing as the media were caught up in the Pope frenzy.

I am wondering, do you have an idea where she could be, you say you think the truth is quite simple? I think starting a thread on it could be good. I'm sure you'll have plenty of debate! And if the trolls pile in, you'll know you're on the money! I notice that the trolls only attack certain threads - the ones that hit too close to home, IMHO.

I believe this is a scam that was set up before April 2007 and there is no body because Maddie was never there,[/b] but will always look at other theories including an accident which killed Maddie in the apartment etc. They could have had the sign made in Portugal quite easily, its not something only the British can make (its just a big sign after all & they had all the powers behind them to do what they needed as and when), and save all the aggro of driving a lorry down there. If there was a body then they had to get it home depending on what they did with it before May 3rd. They might have hidden somewhere which could have been found a later date and the only safe way is to get it back to the UK, especially with the amount of world media and public on the case...they couldn't leave no stone unturned

Fair do's jd, I believe parts were a scam certainly. But if you believe MBM was never there, how do you explain the dogs marking cadaverine odour and blood?

rainbow-fairy wrote:
Fair do's jd, I believe parts were a scam certainly. But if you believe MBM was never there, how do you explain the dogs marking cadaverine odour and blood?

Good question rainbow-fairy. This is the only thing I cannot explain....at the moment!

jd wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:
Fair do's jd, I believe parts were a scam certainly. But if you believe MBM was never there, how do you explain the dogs marking cadaverine odour and blood?

Good question rainbow-fairy. This is the only thing I cannot explain....at the moment!

That's the stumbling block for me too. Otherwise, I haven't seen any credible evidence that proves Madeleine McCann was in PDL (apr/may) 2007

Molly wrote:I think the McCann's are A la Carte Catholics who choose which rules to observe and which to ignore, favouring the services where the community worships them, gives them respect and the Pope publicity stunt.They ignore certain rules like IVF etc. I still think that the Catholic card was forced when she called for a priest in the early hours of 4th, I think that's the only one thing that was genuine and there's only one reason to call for a priest.

Strangely, I believe Gerry when he says "there is no evidence", he seems very sure that Madeleine won't be found.

Molly, yes! Absolutely. I posted this on the 'where would a body be hidden?' thread but I believe it has equal relevance here - a short concise piece on the reasoning of the Catholic faith's opposition to IVF:

What is the Catholic position on In-Vitro Fertilization (IVF)?
By Insight Staff
Issue: October 2002


   

VATICAN DOCUMENTS: In-Vitro Fertilization

Answer: In IVF, a fertilizable ovum is removed from a woman's ovary and put in a petri dish (the Latin for dish is vitrum) to which a few concentrated drops of sperm are added. On the third or fourth day the fertilized ovum is put in the woman's womb. Only a small percentage of fertilized ova result in a child being born. The other children are lost or killed.

The instances of infertility can be increased by previous venereal disease, late childbearing, the previous use of intra-uterine devices, irreversible tubal ligation, and previous abortion, for all of which a woman might be responsible. IVF also is expensive.

No person and no couple has a right to a child. A child is a person with rights; it is not merely an object, a possession. A doctor treats disease; he should not do what is over and above the goal of health. He is allowed to treat a woman for a condition causing infertility, but not to "manufacture" her child. And medical treatment of the woman is often more successful than IVF in overcoming infertility.

Other considerations are that (1) in IVF, imperfect sperm are not screened out as they are in natural conception, (2) imperfect or supernumerary foetuses are often killed, (3) more children are born prematurely, with problems resulting from this; (4) medical problems for a woman can occur in IVF more than in natural pregnancy; and (5) the whole process is a degradation of parenthood, which should begin with an intimate and profoundly personal expression of love.

Sometimes the ova that are put in the petri dish come not from a man's wife but from another woman, or the sperm fertilizing his wife's ova come from another man. This can easily result in psychological and legal problems, and certainly results in a moral one.

Questons: What is the status of this teaching?

Answer: . For the reasons given, the Church considers IVF to be mortally sinful. Indeed, one of these reasons is sufficient of itself to outlaw the practice: the degrading of the two-in-one-flesh unity of parents by deflating the importance of the flesh as a vehicle of love in the formation of new life.

This is true even if the ovum and sperm come a husband and wife. How much more so, then, if this is not the case?

Questons: What is the basic text?

Answer: Instruction on Respect for Human Life in Its Origin and on the Dignity of Procreation, by the Congregation of the Faith, Feb. 22, 1987.

Molly wrote:I think the McCann's are A la Carte Catholics who choose which rules to observe and which to ignore, favouring the services where the community worships them, gives them respect and the Pope publicity stunt.They ignore certain rules like IVF etc.

I think you will find most catholics are. How many Catholic families do you know with 15 children these days ?
But that is true of all religions. All the stuff about Jews keeping the Sabbath and doing nothing at all between sunset on Friday and sunset on Saturday sounds great until you go to Israel and see for yourself that everything just carries on, police, fire, ambulance, doctors, nurses, air traffic, army, navy........ the lot. Only the so called ultra-orthodox who dress up in 16th century Polish costumes get away with it.
Ditto incidentally Muslims. Does anyone believe that Muslim surgeons stop work every few hours to stick their bottoms in the air, or Muslim Police officers on patrol ? Of course not. It is just on the list of things that someone in the bronze age said they should do, and no religious person has the guts to say it is outdated nonsense. They just treat it as such, and pick and mix.

Daisy wrote:

jd wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:
Fair do's jd, I believe parts were a scam certainly. But if you believe MBM was never there, how do you explain the dogs marking cadaverine odour and blood?

Good question rainbow-fairy. This is the only thing I cannot explain....at the moment!

That's the stumbling block for me too. Otherwise, I haven't seen any credible evidence that proves Madeleine McCann was in PDL (apr/may) 2007

We still have Burgau. We have connections between Jane Tanner and Murat and we have the two paedo candy photographs probably taken in Burgau - the apartment that connects with Murat.
We have reports that the family were seen at Zaival beach at Easter.
We are absolutely not sure about the Easter photographs of Donegal and the very quick publication of same (11/5) plus the apparently unnecessary myth of the strong connection to the family. If we're all looking at Donegal, we can't be looking at Burgau?

With the above, say that something happened in Burgau and they left Maddie behind (ill? truly ill?). Say there was the 'conference' coming up and they had already had contact with some of the big finance and industrials who unaccountably had a holiday there the first week in May.
(See Stella's: Was this the reason etc.long topic).
See the Steel Magnolias document on Amber alert GPS - which states the need for a photogenic toddler to be abducted or lost - thus creating much more acceptance of the need to microchip entire populations. Big motivation, money and power.
(But didn't work, the moment the abduction was announced a number of these VIPs took off. Gerry had miscalculated, thought he'd be their top man to market microchips, they just smelled a rat and bad publicity. I'e said before that G reminds me of Delboy but without the moral fibre.)
Say that Maddie, still not well, was collected on the next holiday just over two weeks later and died within days.
There was plenty of time for a plan to be formed with the help of some friends, I don't think the T7 were all totally in on it.
We do have the four passports lying on the table on the 3rd/4th May. The PJ later got her passport which can't have been with the others, but it's little slips like this that say a lot.

This is a far more complicated theory than I would like, but it takes in all the available information. I just find Burgau and the two most awful photographs very disturbing.
Then don't forget the CAT file on Gerry, emptied a few months earlier. The lack of medical records on Maddie, the Gaspar statement and the very ubiquitous mr. Murat. (who netted £ .600.000 out of the affair).
I don't know what brother John got out of it, but I'm sure the Fund looked after him.

I couldn't say that Murat earned a lot out of this case. I agree he earned some money, but initially he lost a lot (his income/company for more than a year. If he initially helped the McCanns, why didn't he told what he new when he was used by the Tapas lot as a red herring?
I don't believe he is involved.

Bebootje wrote:I couldn't say that Murat earned a lot out of this case. I agree he earned some money, but initially he lost a lot (his income/company for more than a year. If he initially helped the McCanns, why didn't he told what he new when he was used by the Tapas lot as a red herring?
I don't believe he is involved.

Well, here is a link to start of with: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
and I'm sure there is more information in the files here.
Murat hardly had a job, his father owned property and Murat did some estate agent work. He was living with his mother for goodness sake.
I think getting over half a million would be a very good compensation.

Bebootje wrote:I couldn't say that Murat earned a lot out of this case. I agree he earned some money, but initially he lost a lot (his income/company for more than a year. If he initially helped the McCanns, why didn't he told what he new when he was used by the Tapas lot as a red herring?
I don't believe he is involved.

Surely that depends on what is being hidden, and by whom. There may be a whole other side to this crime that the vast majority of the tapasniks have no idea about!

Robert Murat's father developed the area in and around PDL over many years, his cousin is Angus Symington is who is one of 3 owners of Ocean Club in PDL, the Symingtons have been established in PDL for many many years famous for their Port exports. The town in Norfolk where his ex wife and daughter lives is in the same area of Norfolk as the priest who was in the PDL church, though the priest was replaced by another one who originally came from Norfolk 3 days after the story of Maddie abducted, 6th May 2007. Murat was also less than half a mile away from the house of Jane Tanner in Devon, UK in the week prior to the Tapas 9 holiday, claiming to be at his sisters doing decorating, and the Garrods, Tanners next door neighbour in the UK...don't think this is a coincidence somehow that all these people ended up in Ocean Club PDL 7 days later!

I don't think Murat is directly involved but was more likely asked to help out in some way when the McCanns made a mess of the scam story. It is interesting to note that everyone for some unknown reason ganged up on him trying to make him the scapegoat. From Jane Tanner, Lori Campbell, Charlotte Penningon etc. His famous line '...this is the biggest c***k up in history' says a lot especially when it was said

jd wrote:Robert Murat's father developed the area in and around PDL over many years, his cousin is Angus Symington is who is one of 3 owners of Ocean Club in PDL, the Symingtons have been established in PDL for many many years famous for their Port exports. The town in Norfolk where his ex wife and daughter lives is in the same area of Norfolk as the priest who was in the PDL church, though the priest was replaced by another one who originally came from Norfolk 3 days after the story of Maddie abducted, 6th May 2007. Murat was also less than half a mile away from the house of Jane Tanner in Devon, UK in the week prior to the Tapas 9 holiday, claiming to be at his sisters doing decorating, and the Garrods, Tanners next door neighbour in the UK...don't think this is a coincidence somehow that all these people ended up in Ocean Club PDL 7 days later!

I don't think Murat is directly involved but was more likely asked to help out in some way when the McCanns made a mess of the scam story. It is interesting to note that everyone for some unknown reason ganged up on him trying to make him the scapegoat. From Jane Tanner, Lori Campbell, Charlotte Penningon etc. His famous line '...this is the biggest c***k up in history' says a lot especially when it was said

Great post jd! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I absolutely agree that RM was not involved in Maddie's demise. However, I believe both he and Malinka are hiding something that links them to the dodgy duo in some way.

jd wrote:Robert Murat's father developed the area in and around PDL over many years, his cousin is Angus Symington is who is one of 3 owners of Ocean Club in PDL, the Symingtons have been established in PDL for many many years famous for their Port exports. The town in Norfolk where his ex wife and daughter lives is in the same area of Norfolk as the priest who was in the PDL church, though the priest was replaced by another one who originally came from Norfolk 3 days after the story of Maddie abducted, 6th May 2007. Murat was also less than half a mile away from the house of Jane Tanner in Devon, UK in the week prior to the Tapas 9 holiday, claiming to be at his sisters doing decorating, and the Garrods, Tanners next door neighbour in the UK...don't think this is a coincidence somehow that all these people ended up in Ocean Club PDL 7 days later!

I don't think Murat is directly involved but was more likely asked to help out in some way when the McCanns made a mess of the scam story. It is interesting to note that everyone for some unknown reason ganged up on him trying to make him the scapegoat. From Jane Tanner, Lori Campbell, Charlotte Penningon etc. His famous line '...this is the biggest c***k up in history' says a lot especially when it was said

jd, do you mean Haynes Hubbard? His name has always seemed oddly familiar to me, for some reason. Who was the other vicar, they were BOTH from Norfolk? Ugh, it was bad enough having the Murat connection so close to home
I may have got this wrong, in the vaults of my memory I think Murat's wife lives near East Dereham, can you name the town please, jd?
(For the record yes I MAY live in Norfolk LOL !)

Huh??? Where did the smilies come from? They've always shown up just as the punctuation marks before?
Gonna try again. :) :/ :) :) :)

Huh??? Where did the smilies come from? They've always shown up just as the punctuation marks before?
Gonna try again. :) :/ :) :) :)

I don't know if she still lives in Hockering but that name has been mentioned in the past.

I wonder if this is the same person - unusual name, right area!

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rainbow-fairy wrote:
jd, do you mean Haynes Hubbard? His name has always seemed oddly familiar to me, for some reason. Who was the other vicar, they were BOTH from Norfolk? Ugh, it was bad enough having the Murat connection so close to home
I may have got this wrong, in the vaults of my memory I think Murat's wife lives near East Dereham, can you name the town please, jd?
(For the record yes I MAY live in Norfolk LOL !)

The vicar who was replaced on 6th May 2007 was Father John Wilson, who comes from a church in the same area in Norfolk England where Murat lived for many years. His replacement Father Hubbard also originated from Norfolk though the PR slant says he came from Canada but this is where he was working at the time and not his roots. I think it is East Dereham, I did a topic on this some months ago but cannot find it as it had all the info, probably carter rucked. But I have all the documents & press releases elsewhere so will take a look at them to refresh the places etc

This is the mobile activity of Murat and GM in the days leading up to 3rd May 2007:

The poster who has examined the phone traffic is Kiko. Some time ago he posted up this very detailed analysis on here, this is a copy of that post. It starts from the alarm being raised and working backwards.

Kikoratton:

"Robert Murat turned his mobile back on after a long silent interval at 2320 on 3 May. One of his first calls was from Sergi Malinka, his computer guru. But at least one hour before KM raised the alarm, Sergi and his friends were chatting profusely by phone, leading me to wonder whether word of “something” had got out before the official announcement by Kate.
The vital piece of evidence, however, is this: RM’s mobile phone silence had begun at 1545 on 2 May, and ended at 2320 on 3 May just after KM’s shout. That’s 31h 35m of silence. Gerry had been taking numerous calls made to his voicemail box on 2 May, and effectively the last of these was at 1549. He postponed listening to this until around 2015, at which point he turned off his mobile. He took just one incoming call at 1224 on 3 May, then his mobile fell silent again until 2314. Since he didn’t make a single outgoing call during that period, and used voicemail to eliminate any possibility of identification of his callers, we can say that his period of silence (compare the figure with Murat’s) was of 31h 25m.
This is inexplicable unless you come to the conclusion that GM and RM were in cahoots, and the silence was akin to the military golden rule, of communications silence to avoid any possibility of compromise before the action kicks off.
I then consider in more detail those 12 voicemail messages which GM received on 2 May. The PJ never found out who they came from, but by any standards it was a busy eight hours for Gerry, no doubt with pen and paper in hand to take down detailed instructions and timings. As I’ve said, he postponed listening to the last two for some reason. KM’s claim that Gerry was so busy at work that he had to keep in touch with his department, is given the lie by the fact that he didn’t actually speak to anybody, and never responded with a single outgoing call.
Putting all of this together, I’m satisfied that the tragic event had not only taken place by 0800 on 2 May, but that sufficient time had passed between the event and 0800 on 2 May for Gerry to start to receive detailed plans beginning at that time.
So theoretically, death around 2345 on 1 May is still possible, although we have no indication of frantic phone communications during that night as we would expect. Which leads us neatly to those six contacts (texts or calls?) on KM’s mobile from 2216 – 2228 on that evening. (According to Mrs Fenn’s account, the crying of Madeleine started at 2230).
Might that really be the time of the tragedy? I doubt it. Look at it this way: wouldn’t we have expected some normal, “chatty” contact between the two McCanns and their Tapas chums, or with family, on 1 May and 30 April? We have absolutely none. 48 hours without mobile contact. I believe that represents 48 hours during which something very concealed was going on. And then suddenly Kate has to make six contacts in 12 minutes just before the long period when, according to Mrs Fenn , Maddie was crying. I don’t believe there is any logic which points to the tragic event happening at that time.

So I return to investigate the calls made by RM’s mobile, and in a 14 minute period between 2200 and 2214 I find six texts apparently being transmitted between his mobile and Michaela Walczuch’s. Now, as an inveterate ex-communications-intelligence jobsworth, I look at those bursts of six messages beginning at 2200 and ending at 2228 and I say “something fishy’s going on here.”
Putting this together with RM’s and Gerry’s coinciding 31-hour silences of the following day, I believe that Murat’s and Walczuch’s mobiles were being used to transmit stuff which was vital to the cover-up of a tragedy which had happened before 2200 on 1 May.
Going back still further, it can be noted that RM booked his flight on 30 April, that the same day was highlighted by phone communications between Jenny Murat and Exeter, and that he flew to Faro and arrived at PdL around 1130 on 1 May. And we should add to the mix an unexplained call to Jane Tanner at the ungodly hour of 0415 on 29 April.

That’s about 600 pages of the phone thread condensed into little more than one page"

1) is it a coincidence that all the mobile phone activity started when Murat arrived in PDL?

2) is it a coincidence that RM and GM mobile phone activity was the same between May 2nd and May 3rd?

3) is it a coincidence that RM switches his mobile phone back on at 23.20 on May 3rd, after 31 hours of the phone being switched off? (he knew nothing of the abduction until the next morning remember) And you can still speak on the phone while it is on charge

4) is it a coincidence that after a year with no contact and with obviously a lot to catch up on, Murat speaks with Sergei Malinka on his mobile phone at 23.40, for just 30 seconds only

5) is it a coincidence that on May 1st, the day Murat arrives in PDL, six contacts (texts or calls?) on KM’s mobile (22:16 – 22:28) and at the same time (22:00 - 22:14) there are six texts being transmitted between Murats mobile and Michaela Walczuch’s

6) is it a coincidence that GM received 12 voicemail messages on his mobile on 2nd May from his work which he never responded to with a single outgoing call? No activity to this level at any other time

7) is it a coincidence that unlike most normal people, GM doesn't receive voicemail messages on his mobile and instead has his voicemail messages sent to a number that eliminates any possibility of identification of his callers?

8) is it a coincidence that RM and GM mobiles are switched off for the exact same time of 31 hours 25mins? (give or take 10 mins)

9) is it a coincidence that Murat was just half a mile away from Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien house in the UK for 7 days prior to them going to PDL for a holiday?

10) Am I being paranoid?

It also seems that 2 of the 3 Tapas friends, namely Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien, were the ones who told the police they saw Murat on the night and believe it was him that abducted Maddie

11) is it a coincidence that the 2 people whom Murat was just half a mile away from their house a week before in the UK, are a week later trying to stitch him up in a child abduction case in PDL?

12) is it a coincidence that if the 'Campbell' that was booked in at the Mark Warner resort on May 2nd is Lori Campbell (Sunday Mirror Reporter), apart from why is she there a day before the abduction...that she too framed Murat?

13) is it a coincidence that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien neighbours, James and Charlotte Gorrod, were also having a holiday at the PDL resort at exactly the same time?

14) is it a coincidence that there are hardly any photos of Maddie from the holiday? No beach photos? This from a child they loved to photo and who loved to be photoed

15) is it a coincidence that there are death smells only connected to the McCanns

16) is it a coincidence that the UK news media knew about the abduction before the police arrived?

Marian wrote:I don't know if she still lives in Hockering but that name has been mentioned in the past.

I wonder if this is the same person - unusual name, right area!

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Hockering, that's it Marian thanks! So I wasn't far off when I said Dereham, sorry East Dereham. Hockering is a village outlying E.D. No idea if Dawn Murat still lives there, but I can't imagine its a very popular name? The article implied that DM lives in the Fens, Wisbech possibly. I guess it's a similar geographical are, albeit not the same county, Wisbech being just into Cambridgeshire, I think!?. But if you were to travel west several miles from Dereham you would end up somewhere near Wisbech so certainly possible.
The photo looks similar facially to those I've seen of her before.

jd wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:
jd, do you mean Haynes Hubbard? His name has always seemed oddly familiar to me, for some reason. Who was the other vicar, they were BOTH from Norfolk? Ugh, it was bad enough having the Murat connection so close to home
I may have got this wrong, in the vaults of my memory I think Murat's wife lives near East Dereham, can you name the town please, jd?
(For the record yes I MAY live in Norfolk LOL !)

The vicar who was replaced on 6th May 2007 was Father John Wilson, who comes from a church in the same area in Norfolk England where Murat lived for many years. His replacement Father Hubbard also originated from Norfolk though the PR slant says he came from Canada but this is where he was working at the time and not his roots. I think it is East Dereham, I did a topic on this some months ago but cannot find it as it had all the info, probably carter rucked. But I have all the documents & press releases elsewhere so will take a look at them to refresh the places etc

Thanks jd that would be really helpful if you could. I can't shake the feeling that I've either read about Haynes Hubbard in the Eastern Daily Press OR seen his name on a church board. I'm not religious in the Christian manner but I absolutely love church buildings and churchyards, I've visited most in Norfolk. First time I read his name in connection to the McCann's a little corner of my mind was prodding me. I know I'd heard of him before. Question is where?