What was so special about Burgau?

Moa wrote:

Stella wrote:When the person who located it first put it up on 3a's, the exact wording I am almost certain said 'good for boys and girls'. Other key words words like projects, sexo, sex, adulto, adult and lonely should never, never, be in the same sentence as 'good for boys and girls'.

2012 is really picking up speed now. Thank you.

I also looked at the keywords from all the dates on the web engines., and cant find that it says good for boys and girls in any of them.. But it says love,romance, lonely,girls , boys.. And that shouldnt be in the same sentence either. I think Stewie pointet out all the keywords used on this site, I couldnt fint any other that what he already has pointet out.. So it never said good for boys and girls..Just to clear that up :)

No one could have searched through 4 years worth of info in that short space of time Moa.

Your post does clear something up though and it has nothing to do with what was in the original web entries.

Stella wrote:

Moa wrote:

Stella wrote:When the person who located it first put it up on 3a's, the exact wording I am almost certain said 'good for boys and girls'. Other key words words like projects, sexo, sex, adulto, adult and lonely should never, never, be in the same sentence as 'good for boys and girls'.

2012 is really picking up speed now. Thank you.

I also looked at the keywords from all the dates on the web engines., and cant find that it says good for boys and girls in any of them.. But it says love,romance, lonely,girls , boys.. And that shouldnt be in the same sentence either. I think Stewie pointet out all the keywords used on this site, I couldnt fint any other that what he already has pointet out.. So it never said good for boys and girls..Just to clear that up :)

No one could have searched through 4 years worth of info in that short space of time Moa.

Your post does clear something up though and it has nothing to do with what was in the original web entries.

i did it yesterday and it only shows the update entries and that was 164 I think. So It do not take that long to go threw them :) i guess we are talking about the same webiste? And no reason to laugh so badly Stella ! And what You mean it cleared up something ?

jd wrote:

uppatoffee wrote:I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I have just come across an article written by Tony about Robert Murat, which quotes Jenny, his mum, saying that her husband had bought a house in Burgau when they first moved out to Portugal as a family in the late 1960s.

Yes Murat has relatives living in Burgau

There's also an interview with Mr Jacinto, who was a partner with Robert Murat's father where he mentions property in Burgau:
On the matter in hand he said:
The deponent was the business partner of John Henry Queriol Murat, from memory
in the period between 1972 and 1977 or 1976, in the partnership Jacinto & Murat,
it being that they knew each other form 1967, the time when John Murat, still
single acquired a house in Burgau which John later sold.
- Equally he recalls John having another business partnership with himself and
another Englishman, called Burgau Investimentos Turisticos Lda., in which John
also sold his share a short time after the business was formed.

Also, he was questioned by the PJ about the rental apartment that is advertised on the Jacinto e Murat website, Quinta da Falfeira. Interesting that he was questioned specifically about these apartments - maybe the PJ saw the website? :

- Regarding the Quinta da Falfeira, this property was his and his ex-wife's,
currently his grand-daughter's, used by her son.
- Equally next to this property the deponent owns a house called "Casa de Avis".
- He clarifies that Robert Murat never had access to those properties and even
less to the key of any part of them, being very certain that he (RM) never
frequented Quinta da Falfeira.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_JACINTO.htm

A few other things I noticed:

-The boys keyword was added between between 1 dec 1998 (not listed in archive) and 18 Jan 2002 (appears in archive)

- From 19 June 2000 to 23 Dec 2004 there is a hotel praia de burgau listed. The keywords are as would expect, but the description has some interesting comments. These don't display on the page, or not that I can see. It may be that it was just a bored web developer messing around..

TITLE Hotel Praia de Burgau TITLE

meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html"
meta name="Keywords" content="Portugal, Hotels, Português, Portuguesa, Portugués, Portuguese, Portugaise, Guide, Guía, Travel, Viajes, Journées, Hôtels, Hoteles, Tourist, Touriste, Turístico, Turistica, Tourism, Turista, Tourismo, Tourisme, Turismo, Pousadas, Posadas, Inns, Estalagem, Estalagens, Estalajes, Albergarias, Auberges, Pensão, Pensões, Pensions, Hostales, Boarding Houses, Alojamento, Accommodation, Logement, Lodging, Rooms, Chambres, Zimmer, Habitaciones, Motels, Motéis, Moteles, Apartamentos, Apartments, Apartements, Apartamientos, Aldeamentos, Villages, Villas, Resorts, Aparthotels, Aparthotéis, Aparthoteles, Apartotéis, Apartoteles, Campismo, Camping, Caravanismo, Caravaning, Juventude, Youth Hostels, Juventud, Jeunesse, b&b, Espaço Rural, Agroturismo, Agro-turismo, Agritourism, TER, Habitação, Guest, Private"

meta name="description" content="Complete guide (1500+ properties) to Portugal hotels and other lodging. Secure discounted online reservations (instant confirmation thru one of the largest international services). Prices and e-mail addresses (where available). Growing section of travel tips and advice. Children safe. No sex, no nude pictures of Pamela Anderson, no free xxx photos of Lara Croft!"

Lastly, not much in the guestbook. One entry 24 dec 2006 by a lady who seemed to appreciate the gentlemen folk of Lagos:
Location: USA
Comments: I love your site and Lagos men. Do you accept donations to support it?

Im back home, and isn it strange.. All the pages keyword has now changed. So what we saw there yesterday are no gone..What is left today is Arquitectura, Architecture, Portugal, tourism, Turismo, Vacances, holiday, férias, resort, apartamentos, Algarve, beach, praia, praias, Travel, water, sports, holiday, beach, Architectural projects, Real Estate, paradise, sex, golf .. I checked all the years, and they say the same now..How did that happen ? They changed it, so its significant...

Moa wrote:Im back home, and isn it strange.. All the pages keyword has now changed. So what we saw there yesterday are no gone..What is left today is Arquitectura, Architecture, Portugal, tourism, Turismo, Vacances, holiday, férias, resort, apartamentos, Algarve, beach, praia, praias, Travel, water, sports, holiday, beach, Architectural projects, Real Estate, paradise, sex, golf .. I checked all the years, and they say the same now..How did that happen ? They changed it, so its significant...

Hi Moa, I can see the same info as I posted yesterday.. I am going to the web archive tool, paste in the url:
http://www.jacinto-murat.pt/paginas/jm-ing.html
then scroll through the days.. The view source keywords are the same for me.

Some of the pages have slightly different keywords so maybe you are looking at a different page to yesterday?

Stewie wrote:

Moa wrote:Im back home, and isn it strange.. All the pages keyword has now changed. So what we saw there yesterday are no gone..What is left today is Arquitectura, Architecture, Portugal, tourism, Turismo, Vacances, holiday, férias, resort, apartamentos, Algarve, beach, praia, praias, Travel, water, sports, holiday, beach, Architectural projects, Real Estate, paradise, sex, golf .. I checked all the years, and they say the same now..How did that happen ? They changed it, so its significant...

Hi Moa, I can see the same info as I posted yesterday.. I am going to the web archive tool, paste in the url:
http://www.jacinto-murat.pt/paginas/jm-ing.html
then scroll through the days.. The view source keywords are the same for me.

Some of the pages have slightly different keywords so maybe you are looking at a different page to yesterday?

mmm could be, im trying again with the link you are providing. BRB :)

Okey tried it again and still get the same..I used the link you provided..i also checked the same dates as yesterday. Only blabla and ends with sex and golf.. I also got this on another computer, so it can't be any cookies doing it either..
http://web.archive.org/web/20001019030359/http://www.jacinto-murat.pt/paginas/jm-ing.html

I had my historik from yesterday stored, so I managed to find it :)

Moa wrote:

Stewie wrote:

Moa wrote:Im back home, and isn it strange.. All the pages keyword has now changed. So what we saw there yesterday are no gone..What is left today is Arquitectura, Architecture, Portugal, tourism, Turismo, Vacances, holiday, férias, resort, apartamentos, Algarve, beach, praia, praias, Travel, water, sports, holiday, beach, Architectural projects, Real Estate, paradise, sex, golf .. I checked all the years, and they say the same now..How did that happen ? They changed it, so its significant...

Hi Moa, I can see the same info as I posted yesterday.. I am going to the web archive tool, paste in the url:
http://www.jacinto-murat.pt/paginas/jm-ing.html
then scroll through the days.. The view source keywords are the same for me.

Some of the pages have slightly different keywords so maybe you are looking at a different page to yesterday?

mmm could be, im trying again with the link you are providing. BRB :)

Okey tried it again and still get the same..I used the link you provided..i also checked the same dates as yesterday. Only blabla and ends with sex and golf.. I also got this on another computer, so it can't be any cookies doing it either..
http://web.archive.org/web/20001019030359/http://www.jacinto-murat.pt/paginas/jm-ing.html

I had my historik from yesterday stored, so I managed to find it :)

Think we are looking at slightlly different pages. Your link is going to a page link, mine is going to the main landing page and the keywords are slightly different between the two pages

http://web.archive.org/web/20100402105318/http://www.jacinto-murat.pt/

Stewie wrote:Thanks for the tip on the web archiving tool Bristow.. it's revealed some interesting finds...

I put the http://www.jacinto-murat.pt/ url into the archiving tool and found some interesting keywords.. including the reference to boys and girls that was mentioned in previous posts.

The first archive for the landing page is 22 Jan 1998 and nothing particularly interesting in the keywords..
Next archive is 1 Dec 1998 and some interesting keywords have appeared:

"-- META TOP --META NAME="AUTHOR" CONTENT="Jacinto & Murat, Lda"META NAME="DESCRIPTION" CONTENT="holiday appartments in Algarve Portugal Europe"META NAME="KEYWORDS" CONTENT="Arquitectura, Architecture, Portugal, tourism, Turismo, Vacances,holiday, férias, resort, apartamentos, Algarve, beach, praias, praia, plage, Travel, water sports,Lagos, heaven, Architectural, projects, sexo, sex, adulto, adult, equestrian, riding, love, romance, lonely, girls"

FILE ARCHIVED ON 5:41:42 Dec 1, 1998 AND RETRIEVED FROM THE
INTERNET ARCHIVE ON 21:05:56 Jan 4, 2012.

I haven't looked at all the intervening archives, but looking at the one for 6 Feb 2007 the keywords are still the same but at some point "boys" was added to the keywords:
....

Boys where added between sept 23 2001 and jan 18 2002...

Stewie wrote:

Moa wrote:

Stewie wrote:

Moa wrote:Im back home, and isn it strange.. All the pages keyword has now changed. So what we saw there yesterday are no gone..What is left today is Arquitectura, Architecture, Portugal, tourism, Turismo, Vacances, holiday, férias, resort, apartamentos, Algarve, beach, praia, praias, Travel, water, sports, holiday, beach, Architectural projects, Real Estate, paradise, sex, golf .. I checked all the years, and they say the same now..How did that happen ? They changed it, so its significant...

Hi Moa, I can see the same info as I posted yesterday.. I am going to the web archive tool, paste in the url:
http://www.jacinto-murat.pt/paginas/jm-ing.html
then scroll through the days.. The view source keywords are the same for me.

Some of the pages have slightly different keywords so maybe you are looking at a different page to yesterday?

mmm could be, im trying again with the link you are providing. BRB :)

Okey tried it again and still get the same..I used the link you provided..i also checked the same dates as yesterday. Only blabla and ends with sex and golf.. I also got this on another computer, so it can't be any cookies doing it either..
http://web.archive.org/web/20001019030359/http://www.jacinto-murat.pt/paginas/jm-ing.html

I had my historik from yesterday stored, so I managed to find it :)

Think we are looking at slightlly different pages. Your link is going to a page link, mine is going to the main landing page and the keywords are slightly different between the two pages

http://web.archive.org/web/20100402105318/http://www.jacinto-murat.pt/

Thats correct :) But you did give me that link But yes I was not on the main page :) If you look at the site to day, it says it was created 05.05.2010.. And they remowed the words boy,girl,romance and so on between jan and april 2010...

Stewie wrote:-The boys keyword was added between between 1 dec 1998 (not listed in archive) and 18 Jan 2002 (appears in archive)

Stewie, is there any way of recovering what the website actually looked like in 2007?

I know of someone who may have a copy of it, but will need to track them down. When posters change names, it's very hard to locate them again.

I have a funny feeling that when Malinka's car got burnt out, with the word FALA (talk) printed in red paint beside it. Someone was sending them a clear message. 'Do not talk'.

I have a funny feeling that when Malinka's car got burnt out, with the
word FALA (talk) printed in red paint beside it. Someone was sending
them a clear message. 'Do not talk'.

Wasn't the Fala a misunderstanding? When the BBC printed something about Amaral swearing about the McCanns he actually said 'Ask (fala) the McCanns' not F**k the McCanns* as they reported. When they received complaints about their mistranslation they belated offered an apology. However, many people seeing the first interpretation and not speaking Portuguese would not know that 'Fala' meant talk, painted the supposed oath beside the car, and made complete fools of themselves.

* Kate OTH is quite happy to quote herself using such language.

Miraflores wrote:

I have a funny feeling that when Malinka's car got burnt out, with the
word FALA (talk) printed in red paint beside it. Someone was sending
them a clear message. 'Do not talk'.

Wasn't the Fala a misunderstanding? When the BBC printed something about Amaral swearing about the McCanns he actually said 'Ask (fala) the McCanns' not F**k the McCanns* as they reported. When they received complaints about their mistranslation they belated offered an apology. However, many people seeing the first interpretation and not speaking Portuguese would not know that 'Fala' meant talk, painted the supposed oath beside the car, and made complete fools of themselves.
* Kate OTH is quite happy to quote herself using such language.

The car being burnt out has no connection with Goncalo Amaral, or with reporters misunderstanding the Poruguese lanaguage.

Miraflores wrote:

I have a funny feeling that when Malinka's car got burnt out, with the
word FALA (talk) printed in red paint beside it. Someone was sending
them a clear message. 'Do not talk'.

Wasn't the Fala a misunderstanding? When the BBC printed something about Amaral swearing about the McCanns he actually said 'Ask (fala) the McCanns' not F**k the McCanns* as they reported. When they received complaints about their mistranslation they belated offered an apology. However, many people seeing the first interpretation and not speaking Portuguese would not know that 'Fala' meant talk, painted the supposed oath beside the car, and made complete fools of themselves.

* Kate OTH is quite happy to quote herself using such language.

Remember her chanting f...king tossers...at PJ at the police station?

Stella wrote:

Stewie wrote:-The boys keyword was added between between 1 dec 1998 (not listed in archive) and 18 Jan 2002 (appears in archive)

Stewie, is there any way of recovering what the website actually looked like in 2007?

I know of someone who may have a copy of it, but will need to track them down. When posters change names, it's very hard to locate them again.

I have a funny feeling that when Malinka's car got burnt out, with the word FALA (talk) printed in red paint beside it. Someone was sending them a clear message. 'Do not talk'.

Yes on the web archive tool you can see the pages that were archived - I think it saves the whole website so it is pretty much like a normal website and you can navigate through it. I can see if I can save a screenshot and post it on here if there's something in particular you want to see..

Stewie wrote:

Stella wrote:

Stewie wrote:-The boys keyword was added between between 1 dec 1998 (not listed in archive) and 18 Jan 2002 (appears in archive)

Stewie, is there any way of recovering what the website actually looked like in 2007?

I know of someone who may have a copy of it, but will need to track them down. When posters change names, it's very hard to locate them again.

I have a funny feeling that when Malinka's car got burnt out, with the word FALA (talk) printed in red paint beside it. Someone was sending them a clear message. 'Do not talk'.

Yes on the web archive tool you can see the pages that were archived - I think it saves the whole website so it is pretty much like a normal website and you can navigate through it. I can see if I can save a screenshot and post it on here if there's something in particular you want to see..

Yes please Stewie.
At one point it advertised something like 'good for boys and girls', or great for boys and girls'. Something like that if you come across it.

I'd like to put this picture here because I think that it ties in with the idea of the blue eyeshadow picture probably having been taken in Portugal. I've read from others that they don't think any grown woman has this color of blue eyeshadow anymore, and I always got the impression that it was from a little princess makeup and jewelry kit as that would explain the necklace as well. I also think that the blue in this picture looks like a sleeve of Maddie's and maybe is a puffy sleeve of a dress like we've seen her wear in other pictures/video. It'd be interesting to know if the McCann's still have the snow white dress in their possession.

Anyway, staying on point. If this was taken in Portugal and she is wearing garish play makeup, maybe it came from the same place as the equally as garish blush/rouge on Amelie's cheek in this picture, and therefore we can assume that they brought all of this stuff with them on the holiday. Is there an inventory of all items from their holiday apartment somewhere? Has everyone seen the little makeup/dressup kits I'm referring to? In America they usually come with blue or pink eyeshadow and red lipstick/blush, etc. and usually a wand or slippers or a crown or beads, etc.

kikoraton wrote:I've just stumbled upon this thread, and by doing so have been obliged to revisit the puzzling business of the haplotypes in the Burgau apartment. By the way, I arrived at this thread because I followed a suggestion (by tigger I think) that from the blue chairs it could be concluded that the apartment was used for a photoshoot. (I hope I've got that right, tigger).
Anyway, my reason for posting here is that I have come to suspect in the last few days that Jane Tanner did, indeed, know Robert Murat before April 2007, and that it may have been he who was in contact with her on three occasions listed in the PJ Phone Records. They are as follows:

Quote "The first record from this number occurs on 29/04/2007 at 4:12:33, on antenna
"Luz Centro 2"; and the last dated on 17 May, 2007, at 10:10:01 on antenna
"Aeroporto-Faro 2".
The existence of 294 records is observed, in which only 3,74% occur before the
disappearance of the young girl.
APRIL 2007
On 29th the mobile phone that is owned by Jane Tanner has two activations,
including the one referred to above, both on the antenna "Luz Centro 2".
On 30th there exist only two records, at 18:31:14 and 20:41:44, also on that
antenna. "

The key times are:
0412 on the morning of 29 April (which could be Murat informing Tanner that he had made the booking for his flight, which we know took place that night, between midnight and 0200 AFAIR), and
1831 and 2041 on 30 April, which might be last-minute arrangements for Murat's flight early the next morning.

It's only a hunch, but if I'm correct, the relationship Tanner/Murat was a very significant one. There's some way to go before anyone could accuse them of being in the apartment at Burgau whilst Madeleine was photographed there.
Please someone tell me if I have misread the thread, or paid insufficient attention to it.

I've just been having a good old read of this thread again, very absorbing and fascinating.
With regard to Kikoratons post, it seems patently obvious that Tanner knew Murat before the holiday, so much evidence points to it, both a few doors down from each other in Exeter just before the holiday, the fascinating information found by Kikoraton showing their phone pings just before the holiday and then of course the maternal line dna found in the Somilar apartment in Burgau that more than likely came from Tanner and Murat.
The archives of Murats website showing the highly questionable meta tags that were removed at crucial times ie the day Murat became an arguido.

What the hell is going on??

SURELY IT SHOULD BE VITAL THAT THE SY REVIEW LOOKS INTO THIS?

This is too much of a coincidence to overlook (Imo)

What brought the PJ's to Burgau on 5th May? It was long before Murat was a suspect.

And why didn't they ever question JT about her DNA being found there or if she knew him?

If you go back to the very first page of this thread you will find a lot of interesting information about that.
Here is a post from Rosa on page 1.

ROSA wrote:Burgau Apartment DNA Explained: Hapless Guide to Haplotypes



Police were led to the Solimar Apartments in the first place by diligences carried out on the Polish couple reported to have been photographing children on a beach in Sagres. Nuno Lourenco de Jesus provided a witness statement, including of a record of the car registration and Robert Murat's Uncle Ralph Eveleigh provided CCTV footage of the couple visiting in his Beach Bar in Burgau. Police were able to trace the hire car to a Polish man and woman staying at the Solimar Apartments - and this is where they found the hair samples whose haplotypes matched those of Jane and Robert

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2793-what-was-so-special-about-burgau

The question is not just why was this photo released but why was the ice cream arm photoshopped in this photo at all? The photo would have served its purpose without the ice cream arm.

Was it:

1. To disguise the fact that the photo is more suggestive without the ice cream arm as Maddie is leaning back and sucking on a lolly?

2. To hide something that is on the original behind the ice cream arm such as an adult hand on Maddie's waist?

3. Supposing the ice cream and arm were part of a bigger image (of which Maddie was a smaller part) but moved up and over to reduce the area of the cropping and allow the photo to be more centred on Maddie. Why reduce the area of the cropping? Was it to hide who or what or where (eg Burgau) that would have appeared in the uncropped original?

roy rovers wrote:The question is not just why was this photo released but why was the ice cream arm photoshopped in this photo at all? The photo would have served its purpose without the ice cream arm.

Was it:

1. To disguise the fact that the photo is more suggestive without the ice cream arm as Maddie is leaning back and sucking on a lolly?

2. To hide something that is on the original behind the ice cream arm such as an adult hand on Maddie's waist?

3. Supposing the ice cream and arm were part of a bigger image (of which Maddie was a smaller part) but moved up and over to reduce the area of the cropping and allow the photo to be more centred on Maddie. Why reduce the area of the cropping? Was it to hide who or what or where (eg Burgau) that would have appeared in the uncropped original?

The ice cream is symbolic for a certain class of people, as is the remains of ice around the mouth which we see in some photographs. Until I researched this, I thought nothing of it.
On point 3, I think it was only to add extra symbolism by someone who clearly isn't very good at photoshopping. It's a good example to show how many people actually miss these crass mistakes - can you also imagine how clever these same people feel they are by doing this?
Fooling us, lowly cattle that we are.

Tigger, we're back in "Alice Day" territory I gather from what you say about symbolism. There is a topic on this subject on the forum and, if anyone needs more information, google "25th April, Alice Day".

I won't post any links as the sites inevitably contain graphic information.

Bump. Interesting thread

unchained melody wrote:Bump. Interesting thread

A must read for all posters.