How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

I thought I read she mixed well with other children but was shy and small for her age? Can't recall where.

soulthief wrote:I thought I read she mixed well with other children but was shy and small for her age? Can't recall where.

Yet her mother has given the impression that she was a child who could be quite rude and cheeky, by saying that she would be giving her new parents or a paedophile gang her ''tuppenceworth''. A family friend has said she was a ''sceamer''. Another family friend has said she enjoyed playing the game of ''monsters'' and being chased.

Having compared the vague picture of a very small Madeleine alighting the plane, and the robust, strapping child in the Tennis Ball picture, one has to say that one does not believe these two images to be of the same child. Much longer limbs in the second photograph, and a sense of more coordination somehow.

So what are you saying judge? that the plane footage is not Madeleine? Also, the footage of Madeleine playing on the stairs shows an out going happy child.An extrovert.

Or perhaps the tennis balls photo isn't Madeleine. One thing for certain, those pics could not both be Madeleine of similar age.

I know the tennis ball picture not sure of the one its being compared to,but it is certainly different from the supposed last picture in which she looks like she is little more than a baby.

soulthief wrote:So what are you saying judge? that the plane footage is not Madeleine? Also, the footage of Madeleine playing on the stairs shows an out going happy child.An extrovert.

One cannot say for sure that the child seen in the plane footage is not Madeleine, on account of the fact that we cannot see her face. Not that this would provide much help as Madeleine appears to look rather different in many photographs of her. However, the child in the plane footage certainly does not appear to have the height of the child we see in the 'Tennis Ball' photograph.

One would agree with yourself that Madeleine would be more likely to be an extrovert than this shy child we keep reading about.

Forgive one's impertinence, but do you really wear this wristband which you were misled into buying? Had one been misled in the same way, one has to say that it would have been returned by now, with a rather stiff demand for a refund [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

What do you make of the last picture? She looks like a very young child, like a 2 yr old, not much more than 2, very different form the Tennis ball shot and the wendy house one where she is dressed in pink? I would say the pics looked about a year apart age wise.
to the band, I never knew you could get a refund and it seems trivial over a couple of quid, I just never took it off and never really consider it, its one of several I wear. I am thinking of burning it on youtube to make some dramatic statement, maybe on 4chan or some other message board that would allow such an act. And I dont take it as impertinence judge, only now people have asked wear it am I second thinking about it.

I have no doubt that the various photos of Madeleine were manipulated by the McC Team in order to convey whatever effect they desired, and to sow confusion.
If I'm a bit silent nowadays, it's because I am creating computer graphics to support the evidence we have gathered with respect to the phone calls (and silences!), and the creche records. These will be presented to the appropriate police force by myself and someone who has been working with me, assuming that the said force agrees to meet us, in the very early part of the New Year.
It would probably take me only another week to get it all ready, but given the weather and the current silly season, there's no point in hurrying it. We can afford to let Team Mccann stew for another month or so.

kikoraton wrote:I have no doubt that the various photos of Madeleine were manipulated by the McC Team in order to convey whatever effect they desired, and to sow confusion.
If I'm a bit silent nowadays, it's because I am creating computer graphics to support the evidence we have gathered with respect to the phone calls (and silences!), and the creche records. These will be presented to the appropriate police force by myself and someone who has been working with me, assuming that the said force agrees to meet us, in the very early part of the New Year.
It would probably take me only another week to get it all ready, but given the weather and the current silly season, there's no point in hurrying it. We can afford to let Team Mccann stew for another month or so.

Hello Kikoraton, may I commend you on your tenacity. You and the others with the skills and sticking power to keep going, despite the slings and arrows, deserve our utmost support. Sincere thanks.

I don't think the pool picture was a last picture, she looks too much of a baby in it, she looks a little over 2, Im sure I read the Mccanns had gone to Portugal the previous year, perhaps the picture of Madeleine was form then and shopped on to the last picture?

soulthief wrote:I don't think the pool picture was a last picture, she looks too much of a baby in it, she looks a little over 2, Im sure I read the Mccanns had gone to Portugal the previous year, perhaps the picture of Madeleine was form then and shopped on to the last picture?

I think it was just Gerry and a friend who went to another Mark Warner resort in Portugal the previous year. Didn't he say something like 'it seemed a child friendly place' and gave that as a reason why he thought it would be ideal for all the family to stay?

Autumn wrote:

soulthief wrote:I don't think the pool picture was a last picture, she looks too much of a baby in it, she looks a little over 2, Im sure I read the Mccanns had gone to Portugal the previous year, perhaps the picture of Madeleine was form then and shopped on to the last picture?

I think it was just Gerry and a friend who went to another Mark Warner resort in Portugal the previous year. Didn't he say something like 'it seemed a child friendly place' and gave that as a reason why he thought it would be ideal for all the family to stay?

I can't recall exact details but know they had been before. Do you think that last photo is the last photo?

No, Soulthief, there has been much discussion about the 'last photo' on various forums and I fall into the photoshopped camp - you have to wonder why it wasn't produced until Gerry returned from a visit to Rothley 3 wks later.

From Missing Madeleine Forum


Russell O'Brien Part Statement about the photo of Madeleine that was printed off,and that the red top photo was taken from Kate's camera.

Russell OBrien Rog Interview
Part Statement date 10.4 08.

1578 “’And a female member of staff possibly from MARK WARNER’?”
Reply “Yeah, she was certainly, yeah, she was, she was English, you know, clearly not a, not a local. Erm, next it says ‘We tried to find a picture of Madeleine’, I mean, it wasn’t so much struggling to get the picture, it was struggling to find the means of printing it. We had the cam,we had Kate’s camera, erm, the, what we were trying to do is find a picture that actually gave a good likeness, rather than just being any old shot it actually had, you know, a close-up of her, of her face. There were a lot of pictures on the camera but they were, you know, just at home and on, you know, in profile and things like that”.
1578 “Yes”.
Reply “So we had, we”.
1578 “So to the words ‘we were struggling’, ‘but we were struggling’ need to be removed?”
Reply “Erm, yeah, ‘we tried to find’, I think, it’s fairly irrelevant, I think, you know”.
1578 “So?”
Reply “’We were trying to find a picture but we’, you know, delete ‘but we were struggling’. ‘Kate checked the camera’. Erm, I don’t actually remember saying that Jane had taken the picture of Madeleine at the tennis lesson, in any case, it wasn’t that day it was the day before that Madeleine and E**a were in the group, erm, on a different day doing the tennis. I think, you know, it’s fairly, I think it’s fairly irrelevant anyway, I don’t think Jane did have a picture from the tennis lesson. So I think that that could all go, I think that ‘Jane had taken a picture of Madeleine at the tennis lesson that day’ could all go and then put, the main thing here was, erm, ‘We were searching for a printer and Kat, one of the Nannies, said she had a printer’. I’m pretty sure it was Kat. So this paragraph’s quite”.
1578 “So we keep in ‘We couldn’t print it off’?”
Reply “’We needed to print it off’ that, that was the sticking issue, we had pictures but we needed to get in somewhere to print them and I think people had asked at, at, at the reception down at Ocean Club”.
1578 “So the pictures of Madeleine?”
Reply “On a digital camera”.
1578 “That were printed off?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1578 “Came from Kate’s camera”.
Reply “From Kate’s camera as far as I can remember, yeah. And the main issue was trying to find somewhere to print it”.
1578 “What about if we say ‘Kate checked her camera and found some pictures’?”
Reply “Yeah, yeah, or ‘Kate’s camera was checked’, I don’t think Kate was in no, in no state whatsoever to check her camera”.
1578 “Okay. So ‘We tried to find a picture of Madeleine’?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1578 “’Kate’s camera was checked’?”
Reply “Umm, ‘And Kat or one of the other Nannies went to their flat to retrieve a printer or something that would connect to a printer and then the pictures were printed in the office off the small reception portal’, there’s a little office in there”.
1578 “Okay. But ‘Kate or one of the Nannies’?”
Reply “Yeah, ‘Kat or one of the Nannies’, I mean, Kat was there and Leanne was there, but whether it was actually their printer or lead, I’m not sure.
1578 “Did you have any photo of Madeleine in your possession”?
Reply “Erm we got a photo of Madeleine later on but this is two hours later, erm”.
1578 “So who gave it to you”?
Reply “Okay well certain, I’m not quite sure what the, the initial, the question made it sound like whoever had one in our possession anyway, I didn’t, erm we got a, we erm, after a portion of my searches, we got hold of erm Kate’s camera, err looked through the digital cam to try and find a picture of Madeleine reasonably recently.

End part Statement ROB.

theolivebranch wrote:

kikoraton wrote:I have no doubt that the various photos of Madeleine were manipulated by the McC Team in order to convey whatever effect they desired, and to sow confusion.
If I'm a bit silent nowadays, it's because I am creating computer graphics to support the evidence we have gathered with respect to the phone calls (and silences!), and the creche records. These will be presented to the appropriate police force by myself and someone who has been working with me, assuming that the said force agrees to meet us, in the very early part of the New Year.
It would probably take me only another week to get it all ready, but given the weather and the current silly season, there's no point in hurrying it. We can afford to let Team Mccann stew for another month or so.

Hello Kikoraton, may I commend you on your tenacity. You and the others with the skills and sticking power to keep going, despite the slings and arrows, deserve our utmost support. Sincere thanks.

I second that. Your tenacity and courage is commendable.

aiyoyo wrote:

theolivebranch wrote:

kikoraton wrote:I have no doubt that the various photos of Madeleine were manipulated by the McC Team in order to convey whatever effect they desired, and to sow confusion.
If I'm a bit silent nowadays, it's because I am creating computer graphics to support the evidence we have gathered with respect to the phone calls (and silences!), and the creche records. These will be presented to the appropriate police force by myself and someone who has been working with me, assuming that the said force agrees to meet us, in the very early part of the New Year.
It would probably take me only another week to get it all ready, but given the weather and the current silly season, there's no point in hurrying it. We can afford to let Team Mccann stew for another month or so.

Hello Kikoraton, may I commend you on your tenacity. You and the others with the skills and sticking power to keep going, despite the slings and arrows, deserve our utmost support. Sincere thanks.

I second that. Your tenacity and courage is commendable.

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Tip top, kikoraton. You have given many theories an enormous amount of credibility, for which many people are truly grateful.

Regarding this statement below, one has to say that the police were the people to advise on which photographs could and could not have been used, at an appropriate time. What was the hurry to hand photographs around? Madeleine could very well have walked back into the apartment at any moment. Just how foolish do these people think the police and the rest of us really are?

1578 “So we keep in ‘We couldn’t print it off’?”
Reply “’We needed to print it off’ that, that was the sticking issue, we had pictures but we needed to get in somewhere to print them and I think people had asked at, at, at the reception down at Ocean Club”.

Autumn wrote:No, Soulthief, there has been much discussion about the 'last photo' on various forums and I fall into the photoshopped camp - you have to wonder why it wasn't produced until Gerry returned from a visit to Rothley 3 wks later.

From Missing Madeleine Forum


Russell O'Brien Part Statement about the photo of Madeleine that was printed off,and that the red top photo was taken from Kate's camera.

Russell OBrien Rog Interview
Part Statement date 10.4 08.

1578 “’And a female member of staff possibly from MARK WARNER’?”
Reply “Yeah, she was certainly, yeah, she was, she was English, you know, clearly not a, not a local. Erm, next it says ‘We tried to find a picture of Madeleine’, I mean, it wasn’t so much struggling to get the picture, it was struggling to find the means of printing it. We had the cam,we had Kate’s camera, erm, the, what we were trying to do is find a picture that actually gave a good likeness, rather than just being any old shot it actually had, you know, a close-up of her, of her face. There were a lot of pictures on the camera but they were, you know, just at home and on, you know, in profile and things like that”.
1578 “Yes”.
Reply “So we had, we”.
1578 “So to the words ‘we were struggling’, ‘but we were struggling’ need to be removed?”
Reply “Erm, yeah, ‘we tried to find’, I think, it’s fairly irrelevant, I think, you know”.
1578 “So?”
Reply “’We were trying to find a picture but we’, you know, delete ‘but we were struggling’. ‘Kate checked the camera’. Erm, I don’t actually remember saying that Jane had taken the picture of Madeleine at the tennis lesson, in any case, it wasn’t that day it was the day before that Madeleine and E**a were in the group, erm, on a different day doing the tennis. I think, you know, it’s fairly, I think it’s fairly irrelevant anyway, I don’t think Jane did have a picture from the tennis lesson. So I think that that could all go, I think that ‘Jane had taken a picture of Madeleine at the tennis lesson that day’ could all go and then put, the main thing here was, erm, ‘We were searching for a printer and Kat, one of the Nannies, said she had a printer’. I’m pretty sure it was Kat. So this paragraph’s quite”.
1578 “So we keep in ‘We couldn’t print it off’?”
Reply “’We needed to print it off’ that, that was the sticking issue, we had pictures but we needed to get in somewhere to print them and I think people had asked at, at, at the reception down at Ocean Club”.
1578 “So the pictures of Madeleine?”
Reply “On a digital camera”.
1578 “That were printed off?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1578 “Came from Kate’s camera”.
Reply “From Kate’s camera as far as I can remember, yeah. And the main issue was trying to find somewhere to print it”.
1578 “What about if we say ‘Kate checked her camera and found some pictures’?”
Reply “Yeah, yeah, or ‘Kate’s camera was checked’, I don’t think Kate was in no, in no state whatsoever to check her camera”.
1578 “Okay. So ‘We tried to find a picture of Madeleine’?”
Reply “Yeah”.
1578 “’Kate’s camera was checked’?”
Reply “Umm, ‘And Kat or one of the other Nannies went to their flat to retrieve a printer or something that would connect to a printer and then the pictures were printed in the office off the small reception portal’, there’s a little office in there”.
1578 “Okay. But ‘Kate or one of the Nannies’?”
Reply “Yeah, ‘Kat or one of the Nannies’, I mean, Kat was there and Leanne was there, but whether it was actually their printer or lead, I’m not sure.
1578 “Did you have any photo of Madeleine in your possession”?
Reply “Erm we got a photo of Madeleine later on but this is two hours later, erm”.
1578 “So who gave it to you”?
Reply “Okay well certain, I’m not quite sure what the, the initial, the question made it sound like whoever had one in our possession anyway, I didn’t, erm we got a, we erm, after a portion of my searches, we got hold of erm Kate’s camera, err looked through the digital cam to try and find a picture of Madeleine reasonably recently.

End part Statement ROB.

who the hell did O'Brien think he was telling them it wasnt relevant? What a cheek, so clearly this nanny and her printer was to explain how the picture was printed in Portugal to spite the type and ink not being in use in Portugal. Was the printer tested to see if it was the kind used?

theolivebranch wrote:

kikoraton wrote:I have no doubt that the various photos of Madeleine were manipulated by the McC Team in order to convey whatever effect they desired, and to sow confusion.
If I'm a bit silent nowadays, it's because I am creating computer graphics to support the evidence we have gathered with respect to the phone calls (and silences!), and the creche records. These will be presented to the appropriate police force by myself and someone who has been working with me, assuming that the said force agrees to meet us, in the very early part of the New Year.
It would probably take me only another week to get it all ready, but given the weather and the current silly season, there's no point in hurrying it. We can afford to let Team Mccann stew for another month or so.

Hello Kikoraton, may I commend you on your tenacity. You and the others with the skills and sticking power to keep going, despite the slings and arrows, deserve our utmost support. Sincere thanks.

Kiloraton, Stella and all wlho have continued to dig into this, your work here is much appreciated and would just like to say well done and thanks very much

Thank you for your kind words, olive, aiyoyo, your judgeship and autumn. I hope I haven't omitted anyone - if I have, you know my thanks are aimed at you as well.

May I join in the sincere thanks to kikoraton for his extended and thorough analysis of the phone records and subsequently the creche records. I haven't forgotten how much opposition he encountered in his efforts to do so. It was and is for me an example to stand for ones beliefs and to disregard all unjust personal attacks that were aimed at kikoraton from
the moment he was discovering patterns that might shed a light on what was happening in Pdl that spring in 2007.
I am just the flowergirl but it got my bloodpressure up to àn unequalled level. A lesser man would have stopped. Not him. And then what à relief on this forum to see freedom of research reinstored and how this thinking out loud was bearing fruit in so short à timespan. Opposed to warnings I saw more negative attitudes at the" don't start about that again" forum while here in all openness the thread did not evoke
any below the belt attacks to this researcher personally.
One more thing. Would not it be worth the exercise to research the photograps involved in this case. maybe that would shed some more light on what happened and what is still going on right now? In other forums it was inpossible to discuss them fully, threads were stopped or derailed the same way crèche and phone threads were.
That's it, thanks kiko, thanks hideho, Stella, judgemental, alison and all others, well done!
parapono

Thank you, parapono, for your words of support. I'm not quite that person you describe - more an old(ish) geezer with a bee in his bonnet. I did try to post a longer appreciation and explanation of why I am here, but just before I could post it - a certain small cat jumped on the keyboard, and I lost it. Not only that, but she has caused the print on this site to go very, very tiny.. She did the same last week when I was looking at booking.com, and caused the print to become absolutely giant. And now I am such a numpty that I don't know how to undo the damage. Anybody got an idea?

kiko,

My cat does that all the time . My screen is a touchscreen so when she jumps up on the desk and her tail brushes past the screen the print jumps from large to tiny. It is usually because the little magnifying glass in the corner, and the 100 per cent icon has been changed to a smaller or larger percentage. Just click on it and bring it back to 100 per cent. On this computer I have to set it on 150 because the print is tiny on the usual 100 per cent, but usually it should be 100. Don't know if this will solve the problem?

Cats/kittens, don't you just love em. We have our grandkitten, not grandchild, that will never happen. He is here for 2 months and within 10 days has brought the place to a move all ornaments, continuously wipe surfaces with antibacterial wipes type of home. But he is gorgeous.
To get back to the issues in hand. Parapono, I agree 100% with your post about this site and the ability to discuss, disagree, not have to be one of the 100s of posts posters to be accepted as a contributor, and I would agree that certainly there are some issues that could, imo, do with a more indepth examination, as you so rightly say the photographs, particulaly of PDL and the UK ones from Xmas 2006.

Hey, thanks candyfloss! I had tried the "wrench" symbol in the corner, but then I overlooked "zoom"! So I am a numpty, see?? Thanks for drawing it to my attention - I'm now on 120% and finding it so much easier.

Reply “So we had, we”.
1578 “So to the words ‘we were struggling’, ‘but we were struggling’ need to be removed?”
Reply “Erm, yeah, ‘we tried to find’, I think, it’s fairly irrelevant, I think, you know”.
1578 “So?”

Imagine telling ROB to remove 'but we were struggling'. I thought the whole point is to let interviewee talk freely without interruption and without suggestion, that is how police can catch them out when they trip up. Sometimes you have to wonder at the professionalism of the UK police. Are they trying to help the T7 by preventing them from tripping up. I don't want to believe all the police members were like call me 'Stu, Prior (sp).

Unless all of each interviewee's statements were place side by side its so difficult to spot or remember their inconsistency.
But they sure err and umnn and you know,...ing ,,errr a lot indicating they were very careful and selective with their words before utterance, and wasn't spantaneous at all. In other word, they were very guided during the interview.

Reading the rog the police weren't asking them a lot of questions. The questions were very narrow based leaving one the impression the police were waiting for them to trip up on previously covered issue so the suggestion for them to omit words seems rather bizzare unless it was a clever ploy to emphasize ROB's strange choice of words.

A more normal thing for any people in the same situation to do would be for them to provide various photos to police for them to decide the most appropriate one to circulate as last photo. Not the other way round. Here in this case, the group was doing the deciding. On top of that, sometimes police may want to circulate a variety of photos to jostle people's memory not just one last mug shot. Anyway the pool's photo wasn't even that, mug shot I mean.
I find it strange not only the group were deciding on behalf of the mccanns, but they were making the decision on suitability as 'last photo' from a very narrow selection of photos meaning few photos were taken of the children on holiday; another strange behaviour of that lot.. Most parents try to capture as many photos of their children on holiday as possible especially at that tender age. But hey to each one's own...that lot were there for themselves as evidenced. .It was their holiday, not the children's. The children were accessories brought along maybe because they couldn't or wouldn't pay for babysitter in UK.

This last photo issue is very circumspect with two schools of thought. I cant decide what to think of the photoshop suspicion. It is such a risky thing to do and if caught the motive will become immediately questionable so one has to wonder are the mccanns and friends that brazen or stupid. Or is the photo genuine? The image of maddie there does look younger than three-year but depending on angle image can vary. What I find odd is the children including GM were fully clothed at the swimming pool and there was no one around, as if it was a their own private pool. None of the children were playing with the water or messing around.. It's as though they were placed there to pose specifically for the photo-shot almost like a photoshoot session for a spread or something like that. Very superficial and artificial is my first thoughts on seeing the photo, almost surreal.

In all my life taking my children on sun holiday no matter what age level, they were in swimming gears and messing around and never just sitting down looking picture perfect and on good behavior with hat still intact. The distance in between them was also interesting to note;. They seem disconnected one from another. None of them seem in rapport with one another. It's as if GM was a bored observer of someone else's children who happened to be nearby and those children didnt belong to him because he was neither seated right next to them or holding any of them or playing with any of them. They were so detached one from another. The contrast of expression of photo subject faces was also interesting - bored, disinterested, lethargy all comes to mind bearing Maddie who was smiling but not at anything in particular. She seems to be only one finding something amusing while the rest in the photo wasnt even aware of their surroundings or photographer.

Well that's my observation of the last photo. Cant decide on the photoshop but it was a superficial as superficial can be photo.
I cant get over it, especially not when it was meant as last photo, just like I cant get over 'devastated' mccanns on Maddie 4th b/d photo.

Good points, aiyoyo. Together with the three-week delay before the "last photo" was produced, you've given us a whole new raft of stuff to think about.