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Photographs Revisited - general

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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by MayMuse on 11.12.17 0:07

Is this definitely on the Paynes balcony in PDL?

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Topics merged.

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Post by MayMuse on 25.02.18 17:29


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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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New photo's

Post by xsherrie on 18.04.18 23:03






Not sure if this is the right topic to post new found pictures but, I recently found new photos... In the back of the last photo, its Madeleine, Gerry, I am unsure who the girl in front is. Sadly it has a watermark on it btw.

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Topics merged.

Thank you for your contribution xsherrie.

These photographs have been uploaded on the forum in the past.  The provenance is questionable now as it was then, so is the reason why they were brought to CMOMM in the first place, without narrative.

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Madeleine with Sean and Amelie

Post by kaz on 14.08.18 14:57

I'm a bit confused with the photograph showing Madeleine and the twins. Where did those Pair of hands come from around Amelie ? Are my eyes deceiving me?

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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by Verdi on 14.08.18 15:30

Hope you don't mind kaz, I've moved your post here from the Professional Blog forum, in case members wish to discuss generally.

I think this might answer your question..



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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by kaz on 14.08.18 15:38

Thank you for that Verdi. Sometimes I think I'm trying too hard and failing miserably.

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Last photo question - easily verified?

Post by orvar on 19.08.18 11:00

Hello,

Having just read the article about the last photo here I kept coming back to a really obvious question about verification of it...

If there really is a question mark over the day/time the photo was taken, why not simply contact other people who were there at the time and compare the photos they took? With similar time stamps, wouldn't they at least confirm the shadows, sun angle, cloud cover and maybe even indicate wind speed?

Have I missed the point or wouldn't this be an obvious method instead of trying to analyse a single photo?

Cheers
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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by sharonl on 19.08.18 12:19

thinking  If we had a list of holiday makers and their contact details, independent of the McCanns and their friends, who were in PDL at the time, that may be possible if they were willing to provide their photographs.

What other people did you have in mind?

The groups holiday snaps for the entire week would be a good thing but there is no  chance of getting these.

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The Last Photograph

Post by orvar on 19.08.18 12:54

@sharonl wrote:thinking  If we had a list of holiday makers and their contact details, independent of the McCanns and their friends, who were in PDL at the time, that may be possible if they were willing to provide their photographs.

What other people did you have in mind?

The groups holiday snaps for the entire week would be a good thing but there is no  chance of getting these.
That's pretty much what I was thinking in terms of who might had a photographic record of the day. I did wonder if the authorities had any issues with the picture and timeline for it and whether they'd done exactly this to confirm or deny it. I'm guessing not from what I've read so far.
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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by sharonl on 19.08.18 13:31

@orvar wrote:
@sharonl wrote:thinking  If we had a list of holiday makers and their contact details, independent of the McCanns and their friends, who were in PDL at the time, that may be possible if they were willing to provide their photographs.

What other people did you have in mind?

The groups holiday snaps for the entire week would be a good thing but there is no  chance of getting these.
That's pretty much what I was thinking in terms of who might had a photographic record of the day. I did wonder if the authorities had any issues with the picture and timeline for it and whether they'd done exactly this to confirm or deny it. I'm guessing not from what I've read so far.

There was an initial query regarding the timestamp on that photograph.  I haven't seen that recently but there should be a link somewhere

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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by Verdi on 19.08.18 13:46

@orvar wrote:That's pretty much what I was thinking in terms of who might had a photographic record of the day. I did wonder if the authorities had any issues with the picture and timeline for it and whether they'd done exactly this to confirm or deny it. I'm guessing not from what I've read so far.
Good afternoon and welcome orvar.

Well, if the Portuguese authorities didn't have reason to question the poolside photograph during their investigation - they sure are aware now.  

Have you read this..

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14979-letter-to-portugal-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-new-evidence-of-what-happened-to-her

Then there is the issue of an invasion of privacy, although I realise others will think differently.  No problem for an official police force to appeal to the public for information concerning a police investigation but members of the public taking on such an approach is in my view wrong.  Besides, there is no guaranteed productive result - just look how many times over the past eleven years, false information has been followed resulting in forum myth taken as fact - because because because....

Dear ......

Hello, you don't know me but my name is Arfa Connem-Doyle, I'm researching the case of missing Madeleine McCann who disappared from a holiday apartment on the Algarve 11 years ago.

I see from the Portuguese police files that you and your family were staying at the Ocean Club Praia da Luz during the same week as the child went missing.  I'm wondering if you could assist my research by looking back at the photographs you took during your holiday and let me know precise detail of the weather conditions for each day - what time each photograph was taken, where it was taken, the positioning of the subject matter in relation to the camera, whether you used any digital enhancements available on your camera that might alter colour, focus, magnification, distance, contours, lighting etc. and anything else you might think helpful?  Even better if you could scan copies and email over to me.

I am a genuine truth seeker so don't be alarmed.  I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours ....

I wonder if Kevin Halligan and associates used this approach when intimidating witnesses or whether they adopted the doorstepping angle, financial reward or threats.  Not something I would care to get involved with.

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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by Jill Havern on 19.08.18 14:49

@orvar wrote:Hello,

Having just read the article about the last photo here I kept coming back to a really obvious question about verification of it...

If there really is a question mark over the day/time the photo was taken, why not simply contact other people who were there at the time and compare the photos they took? With similar time stamps, wouldn't they at least confirm the shadows, sun angle, cloud cover and maybe even indicate wind speed?

Have I missed the point or wouldn't this be an obvious method instead of trying to analyse a single photo?

Cheers
That's exactly what PeterMac did with his research of the Pool Photo - he used flickr and windsurfing competitions (which are all date-stamped and still all over the internet on various sites) as can be found in his many Pool Photo chapters, especially the last two: http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/
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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by sharonl on 19.08.18 15:19



Wind surfing May 3rd 2007 - http://www.formulawindsurfing.org/gallery/242

Petermac has done a lot of research into the weather conditions in PDL that week.  His research is based on information from credible and professional sources and can be read in his free e-book.  Link given in Jill Haverns' post above

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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by sammyc on 19.08.18 19:19

@orvar wrote:Hello,

Having just read the article about the last photo here I kept coming back to a really obvious question about verification of it...

If there really is a question mark over the day/time the photo was taken, why not simply contact other people who were there at the time and compare the photos they took? With similar time stamps, wouldn't they at least confirm the shadows, sun angle, cloud cover and maybe even indicate wind speed?

Have I missed the point or wouldn't this be an obvious method instead of trying to analyse a single photo?

Cheers
Welcome orvar, 'why not simply contact other people who were there at the time and compare the photos they took?'  I'm pretty sure Team McCann requested anyone who had photos to hand them over to their side rather than the Portuguese Police. Happy to be corrected.
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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by Verdi on 19.08.18 21:24

@sammyc wrote:
@orvar wrote:Hello,

Having just read the article about the last photo here I kept coming back to a really obvious question about verification of it...

If there really is a question mark over the day/time the photo was taken, why not simply contact other people who were there at the time and compare the photos they took? With similar time stamps, wouldn't they at least confirm the shadows, sun angle, cloud cover and maybe even indicate wind speed?

Have I missed the point or wouldn't this be an obvious method instead of trying to analyse a single photo?

Cheers
Welcome orvar, 'why not simply contact other people who were there at the time and compare the photos they took?'  I'm pretty sure Team McCann requested anyone who had photos to hand them over to their side rather than the Portuguese Police. Happy to be corrected.
Happy to be corrected?  No way sammyc - you are 100% correct, only the reality is a darn sight worse..

Madeleine police plea for photos


Tourists who have visited the Algarve resort where Madeleine McCann was abducted are being asked to send their holiday photographs to British police.

They want anyone who was in the Praia da Luz area in the two weeks before the four-year-old disappeared on 3 May to send their photos to a new website.

Officers will cross-reference them with a database of UK paedophiles.

Madeleine's father Gerry has returned to Portugal to rejoin his wife and children after a brief trip to the UK.

Yellow tributes
Mr McCann arrived back in Praia Da Luz on Tuesday morning after his one-day visit home.
During his trip, Mr McCann visited the family's home village of Rothley, Leicestershire, where he saw the thousands of yellow ribbons, tributes, flowers and cuddly toys left by the public.

He spoke to some of the people who had gathered to show their support and tied his own yellow ribbon, which has become a symbol of hope for Madeleine.

As well as meeting organisers of the campaign to find her, it is believed his visit was also intended to enable the family to stay in Portugal for the foreseeable future.

Accompanied by aides carrying a suitcase and parcels, Mr McCann returned to be with his wife, Kate, who had remained at the family's Algarve holiday apartment.

'Jigsaw piece'

Making their appeal for photographs, UK police said they wanted pictures that included strangers in the background, but not family or empty scenic shots.

Photos can be uploaded via a website - www.madeleine.ceopupload.com.

The photographs will be cross-referenced against a database of pictures of UK paedophiles and other criminals, with police able to check 1,000 an hour.

Any relevant information will then be passed on to the Portuguese police.

Jim Gamble, of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (CEOP) Centre, said: "No matter how small or insignificant the information may seem to you, it could be the missing part of the jigsaw, so let us decide if it is important.

"We are looking for anyone who was at the Ocean Club Resort or surrounding area in the two weeks leading up to Madeleine's disappearance on 3 May, who have photographs that might help our work."

Detective Chief Superintendent Anne Harrison, of the National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA), said it was possible Madeleine was still being hidden in Praia da Luz.

She also appealed for anyone who took a part in the initial search for her, before the Portuguese police arrived, to contact police on 0800 0961233.

Police have teamed up with a number of computer companies to deliver the technological power behind the website and the collection of photographs.

As well as uploading them, police say the public can take any photos they might think relevant to high street photography shop Jessops, which will convert traditional prints to digital images for free.

A number of UK law enforcement agencies are helping the Portuguese authorities, including Leicestershire Constabulary, the Association of Chief Police Officers, CEOP and the NPIA.

Portuguese police have also confirmed they are investigating claims of a possible sighting of Madeleine in Morocco.

Chief inspector Olegario Sousa said the clue was "being verified" and that the Moroccan authorities had been contacted.

One-minute silence

At noon on Monday a one-minute silence was held in Portugal to show solidarity with Madeleine's family.

The silence was initiated by an anonymous chain e-mail circulated around the country at the weekend and was observed by tourists and locals.

Madeleine's mother Kate McCann observed the silence privately at the family's holiday apartment.

Senior detectives in Portimao, who are investigating Madeleine's disappearance, also stopped for one minute.

The latest public display of support has come from the Liverpool football team, who were photographed on Monday with a banner asking for information of Madeleine's whereabouts.

They were pictured as they left the UK for their Champions League final in Athens on Wednesday.

Portuguese people have also been asked to pray for Madeleine on Tuesday night in a nationwide e-mail from Carmelite nuns.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6677803.stm
....................

This is the Jim Gamble who became close friends with the McCanns - so convinced was he of their innocence.  If anyone did submit their photographs to the CEOP, for sure they never reached Portugal !!!

bignono

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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by Verdi on 19.08.18 21:58

I've moved the thread initiated by new member orvar here should members wish to respond.  I don't think the forum needs yet another thread dedicated to the 'Last Photograph'. 

The subject has been resolved as far as humanly possible by the available evidence.

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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by sharonl on 19.08.18 22:13

@sammyc wrote:
@orvar wrote:Hello,

Having just read the article about the last photo here I kept coming back to a really obvious question about verification of it...

If there really is a question mark over the day/time the photo was taken, why not simply contact other people who were there at the time and compare the photos they took? With similar time stamps, wouldn't they at least confirm the shadows, sun angle, cloud cover and maybe even indicate wind speed?

Have I missed the point or wouldn't this be an obvious method instead of trying to analyse a single photo?

Cheers
Welcome orvar, 'why not simply contact other people who were there at the time and compare the photos they took?'  I'm pretty sure Team McCann requested anyone who had photos to hand them over to their side rather than the Portuguese Police. Happy to be corrected.


As I remember, they were collected by McCann supporter, Jim Gamble, former head of CEOP but I don't think that he or CEOP forwarded any of these to the investigation.

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Shadow analysis of Pool Photo

Post by PLL on 26.08.18 15:46



This is a shadow analysis of so called McCann's last picture or pool photo.

I started with Maddie's hair (rightmost "vertical" line marked by an arrow).

All other lines are parallel to this one. Short lines striking match corresponding points creating shadow.

I think this makes clear the shadow on Gerry's left tigh.

Also it makes clear the picture was taken very close to solar noon, which occurred at 13.33 local time (I think UK time is the same) on May 3rd, 2007 and on April 29th, 2007 (very close dates), as it can be checked here:

http://suncalc.net/#/37.0882,-8.7315,18/2007.05.03/13:29

http://suncalc.net/#/37.0882,-8.7315,18/2007.04.29/13:29

I'd like to have the exact point in the pool where they took the picture, so that I can check Sun's direction.

My calculations (which may fail), is that shadow is 2º from a vertical line, taking the line separating blue "azulejos" in pool's wall as vertical.

Unfortunately Suncalc doesn't offer the exact angle expected at 13.29, one must guess from the picture.

The person who took the pic seems to be reflected in Gerry left lenses. It looks like a woman in sunglasses wearing pink and watching through camera in her right eye (left eye on reflexion, once it's inverted). I think it might be Kate.

P.S. - after analysing the picture in fotoforensics.com I couldn't find any indication it's been doctored. It would be almost impossible to add a person in this picture and leave it that perfect, so IMO that's time-wasting trying to demonstrate it was anyhow modified.
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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by BlueBag on 26.08.18 16:11

The person who took the pic seems to be reflected in Gerry left lenses. 
????

 I don't think so.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/gestalt-3AsTheKTPHorg.jpg

(Very large picture - probably the biggest most detailed version on the internet).

I also don't think the lines you drew make much sense either.
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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by sharonl on 26.08.18 16:53

Hi again PLL

The Poolside photograph has been the subject of some very detailed research and much discussion on the forum and there has been much speculation over whether or not the it had been photoshopped.

A research group had the photograph analysed by two independent experts who separately concluded that the picture was not photoshopped but that the date and time had been altered.  There is more information on the forum and in the free e-book by Petermac http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/

The Photograph was not presented to the investigation until Gerry returned to PDL after a visit to the UK.

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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by PLL on 26.08.18 17:10

Hi, BlueBag, thanks for the comment.

I have used the picture from this forum, which is same resolution, 3072 x 2304  Pixels.

Resolution here is lower, but it doesn't matter as picture is accurate enough and that can be verified.

The purpose of the lines is to mark sun's direction at the time, which depends on hour and date picture was taken.

Perhaps if you take this zooms it may look more clear:

Right lower arrow points something one can guess it's a camera (hardest part to see, it will help if you watch from different angles).

Left arrow points to cloth in pink.

Upper arrows points to sunglasses.

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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by PLL on 26.08.18 17:13

Hi sharonl again big grin

I agree, no evidence it was photoshopped.

Like everything in McCann's it's strange they only present the picture on May 24th.

I've read Petermac's book.

The date and time can be right or wrong. That's why analysing shadows might help.
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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by PLL on 26.08.18 17:20

The problem with dating this picture is that McCanns don't show the pictures in camera before and after this one.

Any normal people would have had to present all pictures in camera to the police, but McCanns for some reason are the ones who decide when and which pictures to present.
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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by BlueBag on 26.08.18 19:48

@PLL wrote:Hi, BlueBag, thanks for the comment.

I have used the picture from this forum, which is same resolution, 3072 x 2304  Pixels.

Resolution here is lower, but it doesn't matter as picture is accurate enough and that can be verified.

The purpose of the lines is to mark sun's direction at the time, which depends on hour and date picture was taken.

Perhaps if you take this zooms it may look more clear:

Right lower arrow points something one can guess it's a camera (hardest part to see, it will help if you watch from different angles).

Left arrow points to cloth in pink.

Upper arrows points to sunglasses.


Total rubbish.
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Re: Photographs Revisited - general

Post by Verdi on 26.08.18 20:47

Topics merged.

As stated above by SharonL, this photograph has been the subject of much discussion and analysis over the years - it's all on the forum if any one is interested in the conclusion reached by informed study and professional expertise.

The subject is saturated - I don't think there's any need for yet another thread.

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