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Photographs Revisited - general

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Post by Tony Bennett on 26.08.18 22:08

@PLL wrote:Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 Pool_s10

This is a shadow analysis of so called McCann's last picture or pool photo.

I started with Maddie's hair (rightmost "vertical" line marked by an arrow).

All other lines are parallel to this one. Short lines striking match corresponding points creating shadow.

I think this makes clear the shadow on Gerry's left tigh.

Also it makes clear the picture was taken very close to solar noon, which occurred at 13.33 local time (I think UK time is the same) on May 3rd, 2007 and on April 29th, 2007 (very close dates), as it can be checked here:

http://suncalc.net/#/37.0882,-8.7315,18/2007.05.03/13:29

http://suncalc.net/#/37.0882,-8.7315,18/2007.04.29/13:29

I'd like to have the exact point in the pool where they took the picture, so that I can check Sun's direction.

My calculations (which may fail), is that shadow is 2º from a vertical line, taking the line separating blue "azulejos" in pool's wall as vertical.

Unfortunately Suncalc doesn't offer the exact angle expected at 13.29, one must guess from the picture.

The person who took the pic seems to be reflected in Gerry left lenses. It looks like a woman in sunglasses wearing pink and watching through camera in her right eye (left eye on reflexion, once it's inverted). I think it might be Kate.

P.S. - after analysing the picture in fotoforensics.com I couldn't find any indication it's been doctored. It would be almost impossible to add a person in this picture and leave it that perfect, so IMO that's time-wasting trying to demonstrate it was anyhow modified.
1. Your analysis of the angle of the shadows is helpful. The main point is that the lines of shadow are consistent throughout the photograph - something that cannot be faked. This confirms that the photo is GENUINE. It has NOT been doctored. Full stop.

2. It was also very obviously taken at mid-day on a very sunny, warm day. The only such day that week was Sunday 29 April.

3. Many years ago I used my knowledge of geography and astronomy (limited though that is) plus some internet research to suggest that the sun was at its highest that time of year in Portugal at about 1.35pm BST & Portuguese time. So if you say from better sources that it is actually 1.33pm I am content with that.   

4. I do not think the angle from the vertical is as low as 2º. I suggest it's more likely to be about 8º or even 10º. I do not think the sun is at 88º in April/May, more like 82º or 80º.

5. The McCanns say the photo was taken at 2.29pm although I think they said their camera said it was 1.29pm but hadn't been adjusted for Portuguese time (of course, it didn't need to be, the times are the same throughout the year!).

If we assume for the moment that the photo was taken at EITHER 1.29pm OR 2.29pm, then we have evidential support for the photo being taken at 2.29pm Sunday 29th rather than 1.29pm Sunday 29th. This is because a cleaning lady says she saw Madeleine and the rest of her family leaving their flat O THE SUNDAY with some picnic lunch at about 1.15pm to 1.30pm. This would 'fit' very nicely with the family having lunch with their friends the Paynes from about 1.30pm to 2.20pm and then bringing their children out to the pool on that sunny Sunday.     

6.  I think you are incorrect about what you see in the sunglasses. It's clear that it's an image of a circular pool which has resulted in the reflection being turned round by 90º. I suggest that what we see on the image, from LEFT TO RIGHT, is:

blue pool, then
poolside terrace (buff/cream colour)
possible pink towel or jumper
black images may be a wall, or shade e.g. from a tree, or some other dark objects.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by PLL on 26.08.18 22:28

@Verdi wrote:Topics merged.

As stated above by SharonL, this photograph has been the subject of much discussion and analysis over the years - it's all on the forum if any one is interested in the conclusion reached by informed study and professional expertise.

The subject is saturated - I don't think there's any need for yet another thread.

Verdi, that's ok for me that you move my thread according to forum rules. Me, like most unexperienced members find it difficult to decide where to place a thread.

Anyway, I don't feel very happy that my thread is put in something like a common trench, and you may wish to keep it independent again, if you don't mind.

Sorry for any disturbance that I may have caused.
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Post by PLL on 26.08.18 23:36

@Tony Bennett

Yes, I think it's final that picture is genuine.

Suncalc.com gives 13.33 and  Suncalc.org offer a more precise time at 13.31.49 You were almost there.

I was surprised by the small angle, too. There must be something wrong. The only vertical safe refences are the lines between blue "azulejos" and the pole behind Gerry, and both match, but I must be missing something.

I don't understand why the time in camera should be 1 hour ahead, as time in UK and Portugal is the same. The camera clock might be innacurate, but then it would be a great coincidence that it advanced exactly 1 hour (a lot of time anyway).

It's hard to believe April 29th. I think Petermac's analysis of weather is brilliant, however there are only 2 sources, Sagres and Faro, and both are a lot discrepant.

Also, if you check "Creche" registers, there are people going to the pool on May 3rd, both in the morning and the afternoon. On May 2nd, there are people going to the beach in the afternoon (no pool/beach on morning registers), On May 1st, there are people going to the pool in the morning, and to the pool and beach in the afternoon. On April 30th, there are people going to the pool in the morning (I'm not sure about afternoon). On April 29th no such registers. No registers don't mean no one went to pool or beach, but from those positive results in other days it seems McCanns didin't get that bad weather during holidays.

If you look at this picture, you can see perfect reflex on lenses. I can't understand why Gerry's glasses should rotate it 90ª.

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Post by Verdi on 26.08.18 23:42

@PLL wrote:Anyway, I don't feel very happy that my thread is put in something like a common trench, and you may wish to keep it independent again, if you don't mind.

Sorry for any disturbance that I may have caused.

I'm sorry that you already, after only one day, find the forum unsuited to your frame of mind.

As I said, I see no reason for the initiation of yet another thread to discuss a subject that's already been thrashed to death and resolved as far as deemed possible by a team of experts in digital photography.  My decision remains intact.

Rest assured you have caused no disturbance.  If you have any problems with navigation of the forum, just ask for help - the admin team are at your disposal.

thumbsup

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Post by Tony Bennett on 27.08.18 9:41

@PLL wrote:@Tony Bennett

Yes, I think it's final that picture is genuine.

Suncalc.com gives 13.33 and  Suncalc.org offer a more precise time at 13.31.49 You were almost there.

I was surprised by the small angle, too. There must be something wrong. The only vertical safe refences are the lines between blue "azulejos" and the pole behind Gerry, and both match, but I must be missing something.

I don't understand why the time in camera should be 1 hour ahead, as time in UK and Portugal is the same. The camera clock might be innacurate, but then it would be a great coincidence that it advanced exactly 1 hour (a lot of time anyway).

It's hard to believe April 29th. I think Petermac's analysis of weather is brilliant, however there are only 2 sources, Sagres and Faro, and both are a lot discrepant.

Also, if you check "Creche" registers, there are people going to the pool on May 3rd, both in the morning and the afternoon. On May 2nd, there are people going to the beach in the afternoon (no pool/beach on morning registers), On May 1st, there are people going to the pool in the morning, and to the pool and beach in the afternoon. On April 30th, there are people going to the pool in the morning (I'm not sure about afternoon). On April 29th no such registers. No registers don't mean no one went to pool or beach, but from those positive results in other days it seems McCanns didin't get that bad weather during holidays.

If you look at this picture, you can see perfect reflex on lenses. I can't understand why Gerry's glasses should rotate it 90ª.

Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 Apagar10
@ PLL

I think on this occasion the Moderator is correct. It is actually very helpful to have the photography issues on as few threads as possible.

Now to reply to some of your points:

@Tony Bennett

I was surprised by the small angle, too. There must be something wrong. The only vertical safe refences are the lines between blue "azulejos" and the pole behind Gerry, and both match, but I must be missing something.

REPLY: I think the simple point is that you have underestimated the angle from the vertical. Looking at your lines on the image, it looks more like about 8º or even 10º from the vertical to me - which would be consistent with the angle of the sun at mid-day on 20 April 2007. I am not sure why you have chosen such a low figure as 2º?

I don't understand why the time in camera should be 1 hour ahead, as time in UK and Portugal is the same. The camera clock might be inaccurate, but then it would be a great coincidence that it advanced exactly 1 hour (a lot of time anyway).

REPLY: I suspect someone has altered the DATE of the photograph but NOT the time. It is possible that the camera clock was originally set one hour different from Portuguese and British summertime. Which are the same, as you say. I therefore think it is POSSIBLE that the photo was originally taken EITHER at 1.29pm OR 2.29pm. As it happens, the McCanns say it was taken at 2.29pm, and this agrees also with the cleaning lady's evidence that, on Sunday at about 1.15pm to 1.30pm, she saw Madeleine and the family going up to the Paynes' apartment for a picnic lunch. That is consistent with the McCanns coming down to the pool after lunch and Gerry, Amelie and Madeleine being photographed at 2.29pm on the Sunday.

One other point. Why did the McCanns suddenly switch their plans after Sunday and decide to eat breakfast and lunch in their own apartment? I think we have answered this on the forum, but you may well have your own ideas on this.

It's hard to believe April 29th. I think Petermac's analysis of weather is brilliant, however there are only 2 sources, Sagres and Faro, and both are a lot discrepant.

REPLY: There is far more weather evidence than the records at Sagres and Faro. I am now wondering how much of Petermac's evidence you have read and how much of the Last Photo threads on this forum you have read? Let me now introduce the satellite images that Petermac found for 29 April, 30 April, 1 May, 2 May and 3 May, all at NOON:

Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 Madele12
SUNDAY (29 April)

Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 Madele13
MONDAY (30 April)

Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 Madele14
TUESDAY (1 May)

]Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 Madele14
WEDNESDAY (2 May)

[Sorry, I can't post 3 May's image, will add it later]

The satellite images (and there are others available for any other time on those five days) show one clear story, namely:

1. Sunday was clear, bright and warm all day all over Portugal and the Algarve

2. During Sunday night/Monday morning, a cold weather front moved eastwards, so that for the next four days, the weather was cloudy, cooler, windier and with occasional rain.

In addition Petermac provided contemporaneous weather observations by a PRAIA DE LUZ RESIDENT which confirmed all the other data about Sunday and the rest of the week.

We also have all the comments from the McCanns themselves and from their Tapas 7 friends which all confirm the cooler, cloudier, windier weather with occasional rain that followed the  warm, sunny Sunday.


Also, if you check "Creche" registers, there are people going to the pool on May 3rd, both in the morning and the afternoon. On May 2nd, there are people going to the beach in the afternoon (no pool/beach on morning registers). On May 1st, there are people going to the pool in the morning, and to the pool and beach in the afternoon. On April 30th, there are people going to the pool in the morning (I'm not sure about afternoon). On April 29th no such registers. No registers don't mean no one went to pool or beach, but from those positive results in other days it seems McCanns didin't get that bad weather during holidays.

REPLY: I think we would like to see all the specific references for all that you say in that paragraph  please. But even if you produce them all, that doesn't mean the weather was so awful that people couldn't do those things. Please show us the specific references, thank you.

If you look at this picture, you can see perfect reflex on lenses. I can't understand why Gerry's glasses should rotate it 9.

REPLY: This has been fully demonstrated by a CMOMM member in a couple of excellent YouTube videos. I will find the links and post them when I've found them.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Tony Bennett on 27.08.18 10:03

FOLLOW-UP TO PREVIOUS POST:

Here is the promised link to one of the two YouTube videos made by CMOMM member Darren Ware:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ZhyjTG3SU

I was amazed to see that this little video,  just 10 minutes long, has already been seen by over 259,000 viewers. And what a gem it is. On the video, you will hear that this is an EXPERT in digital photography, and surely for any sane person, this little video removes all doubt about how the vertical image in the sunglasses was produced (@ Textusa, please take note!).

Here is the satellite image for Thursday 3 May at Noon - important evidence that the 'Last Photo' was NOT taken that day but was in fact taken on Sunday 29 April:

Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 Madele15

It has been argued that the Last Photo COULD HAVE BEEN taken during a short gap in the clouds on an otherwise cloudy day. But this is a very bad argument based on the ABSENCE of evidence.

If we examine the Last Photo...

1  Gerry is wearing sunglasses
2  Gerry is wearing a T-shirt
3  Gerry is wearing shorts
4  Amelie is wearing a sun-hat
5  Madeleine is wearing a sun-hat
6  Amelie is wearing light clothing
7  Madeleine is wearing light clothing
8  All are dipping their toes into the water
9  The shadows are strong, not coming through high cloud
10  There is a sheen of perspiration on Gerry's forehead.

People have tried to knock the idea that the Last Photo was taken on Sunday.

People (even including some well-known McCann-sceptics who should have known better) have mocked the claim as 'absurd' or a 'conspiracy theory'.

However, CMOMM looks at EVIDENCE. We weigh up the evidence.

Every time the Last Photo is looked at, the evidence surely points overwhelmingly to its having been taken on SUNDAY.

And there is a great weight of other evidence showing that something very serious may have happened to Madeleine on Sunday afternoon or evening.

Some people don't like us presenting this evidence.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by PLL on 27.08.18 12:19

Tony, many thanks for your detailed considerations, which I have read carefully.

This is my opinion after reading it:

Angle: For calculating it, I did a right triangle with the line of sunray direction and vertical direction from the line between “azulejos”. I calculated 2º, but it can't be. I'd need to take a few pictures with shadows and do calculations by trial and error to find what went wrong.

Date and time: it's hard to believe they changed the date and forgot about time once it's as easy changing date or time and they had 3 weeks to work on it. There must be a more clear reason for the time, if it's wrong.

Breakfast: I have no idea why they switched breakfast to apartment. I only think it extraordinary that there are registers of Maddie in the "Creche", and Catriona testified for that under penalty of perjury and prison. She had to be bribed before disappearance, which is a lot risky for both parties. Also if they decide a criminal plot won’t fail by bribing people, they won’t bribe one single person and by bribing many people they risk non-collaborators and information leaking (unless they make a proposal one can’t refuse, like Mafia).

Weather: again, sources are a great distance from Praia da Luz and you can't guarantee weather at that day and time beyond any reasonable doubt. Satellite images aren't timed and from that, anyway, I can only guarantee there was bad weather in Northern Portugal, at most. This year (2018) weather was quite atypical in Portugal (and elsewhere in Europe, UK included, I think), cold and cloudy during Summer, and yet I often had hot and sunny periods during lunchtime.

"Creche" registers: if you bother checking those registers in PJ files you'll see that. I'll copy them and mark "pool" and "beach" where applicable as soon as I can.

Sunglasses: I'll check the video. Anyway, there's at least another picture of Gerry in those glasses that showed up in a British paper, but I couldn't recover it (only saw low resolution version in Google Images, couldn't open source).

29th April: After checking film "When Madeleine died" by Richard Hall, I think he's using 4 or 5 pictures to support most evidence. But "Processo" has more than 150 holiday pictures, as you can see at
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm
Unfortunately they are printed in black and white (not greyscale), which makes them useless for us. Amaral, who checked every picture in detail and interviewed every party in the plot as well as every piece of evidence said in an interview broadcasteded in 2016 that he was sure Madeleine vanished on May 3rd.

My humble opinion in summary:

Forensic evidence is subject to scientific protocol, and thus it must be able to be thoroughly challenged to pass validation. This is why I challenge it.

In court, Prosecutors of Republic won't be alone. They must face defendant's attorneys, who will challenge evidence to the furthest possible extent. The judge will decide under support of both parties, so evidence must be really strong.

I think MacCanns concealed Maddie's cadaver and they're lying, even though you may sometimes think otherwise unfortunately when I challenge evidence for the sake of validating it only. I hope we can some day find Maddie’s remains and jail McCanns. For the sake of Maddie’s due justice no evidence is ever enough discussed until that day.
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Post by Jill Havern on 27.08.18 14:34

@PLL wrote:

Date and time: it's hard to believe they changed the date and forgot about time once it's as easy changing date or time and they had 3 weeks to work on it. There must be a more clear reason for the time, if it's wrong.

Weather: again, sources are a great distance from Praia da Luz and you can't guarantee weather at that day and time beyond any reasonable doubt. Satellite images aren't timed and from that, anyway, I can only guarantee there was bad weather in Northern Portugal, at most. This year (2018) weather was quite atypical in Portugal (and elsewhere in Europe, UK included, I think), cold and cloudy during Summer, and yet I often had hot and sunny periods during lunchtime.

The time shown is exactly Solar Zenith for 3/5/7. If TR was told to change the date to 3/5/7 and to make it mid-day, he would have the knowledge and experience NOT to make it 1200
 but to make it Solar Noon which he got accurate, to the second.  He would have access to an almanac

The Source for the Two photos piece is 5.59 km  (3.47 miles, or 6110 yards) from the baby pool.  How close to a freezing cold overcast and windy day can there be a minor heat wave ?

OF COURSE Satellite images ARE timed - to the nano-second.  One billionth of a second.   
That is just a very foolish statement to make.

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This one is labelled
MSG2-SEVI-MSG15-0201-NA-20070503131242.855000000Z-20110610184909-1280406
Indicating the identity of the satellite, of which there are several, and then
2007, 05 (=May) 03 (=3rd),131242 .85500000  (= 1312 Hrs and 42.8550000 seconds), Z = ZULU time, = GMT = Standard Universal time

PeterMac
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Post by PLL on 27.08.18 15:23

Jill, I have discussed evidence so far, not judging anyone as you may witness.

Images above don't have a time stamp, so I could I say they're timed? I know satellite images are timestamped and didin't say they aren't. I'm talking about images posted here.

What (or who) is TR?

The picture was clearly taken very close to solar noon, so why adjust time for that purpose and yet put it 1 hour ahead?

I don't know what you mean by 2-photo piece and would be very thankful for a link or further information.

This satellite pic is timestamped indeed.

Maybe I'm wrong again, but I think Praia da Luz lies within the red circle in the image, isn't that correct? If so, do you see any big clouds within the circle?

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Post by Verdi on 27.08.18 15:47

@PLL wrote:"Creche" registers: if you bother checking those registers in PJ files you'll see that. I'll copy them and mark "pool" and "beach" where applicable as soon as I can.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14767p75-documented-evidence#390110

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Post by Jill Havern on 27.08.18 15:49

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Post by Jill Havern on 27.08.18 15:54

@PLL wrote:Jill, I have discussed evidence so far, not judging anyone as you may witness.

Images above don't have a time stamp, so I could I say they're timed? I know satellite images are timestamped and didin't say they aren't. I'm talking about images posted here.

What (or who) is TR?

The picture was clearly taken very close to solar noon, so why adjust time for that purpose and yet put it 1 hour ahead?

I don't know what you mean by 2-photo piece and would be very thankful for a link or further information.

This satellite pic is timestamped indeed.

Maybe I'm wrong again, but I think Praia da Luz lies within the red circle in the image, isn't that correct? If so, do you see any big clouds within the circle?

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Are you sure you're from Portugal? winkwink
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Post by PLL on 27.08.18 16:40

Verdi, I'm talking about "Creche" registration forms http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE.htm
There you can see some parents state location on pool or beach here and there.

Jill, now tell me where you see clouds covering Praia da Luz.
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Post by Tony Bennett on 27.08.18 17:03

@PLL wrote:Verdi, I'm talking about "Creche" registration forms http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE.htm
There you can see some parents state location on pool or beach here and there.

Jill, now tell me where you see clouds covering Praia da Luz.
@ CMOMM Mods & Admin

Having considered PLL's posts to date on the Last Photo etc., I conclude as follows:

1.  PLL does not, for whatever reason, like the idea that the Last Photo was taken on Sunday 29 April

2.  S/he is trying to undermine the overwhelming evidence that it was taken on Sunday, with weak points
,
3A.  S/he has not thoroughly read Petermac's posts and other literature on the Last Photo as well as s/he claims OR
3B.  S/he HAS read all this and has joined the forum purely to undermine its central hypotheses on the case

4.  PLL may be posting from IP addresses in Portugal but is probably a native English speaker.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by PLL on 27.08.18 17:36

Please, Tony!

I only must thank your compliments on my English.

Please note this if you don't mind:

- I truly believe McCanns are liars and Maddie’s dead unfortunately according to British dogs evidence, but I believe that happened on May 3rd.

- I'm a deep admirer of Amaral and his work on this case in particular. I'd like to add that he truly believes Maddie died on May 3rd as far as I know from his interview in a Portuguese TV channel in 2016.

- I really don't believe so far she died on April 29th, whatever date last photo may have been taken.

- I analysed dogs reactions and last photo's genuineness and direction or solarrays from shadows, which are all congruent, and I thought that might of interest sharing.

- Like you and perhaps every single person who registered on the forum so far wish this case to be solved, the remains of unfortunate Maddie found, and responsible people be put on jail.

- Evidence is not that easy, as you know, first of all because it will be challenged to the slightest detail in a court of law and it's useless to think a judge will take any evidence for granted however you believe in it.

- I don't want to be impolite, but I think you're personally attacking me against forum rules and unfairly. I should also ask if it is mandatory to believe on April 29th thesis to register in your forum.
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Post by Verdi on 27.08.18 17:38

@PLL wrote:Verdi, I'm talking about "Creche" registration forms http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE.htm
There you can see some parents state location on pool or beach here and there.

Oh I see, my apologies, you are talking of the creche attendance sheets - something got lost in translation big grin .   There was I thinking the discussion was about the 'last photograph'.

The whereabouts of the adults during the day doesn't signify - it doesn't prove nor disprove anything relative to the weather conditions on any one day.

The evidence that has been discussed extensively in the past has again been presented for your edification alone, yet you seem hell-bent on dismissing all the compelling evidence gleaned through years of study and analysis by experts in the field of digital photography - and more, in favour of looking for some negative trivial point just to be contrary.

A fine distraction for the idle mind but hardly conducive to the true purpose of CMoMM.

PeterMac's extensive study;  Richard D Hall's videos;  forum member Darren Ware's commentary and videos;  page upon page of topic discussion - it's all here on CMoMM for the benefit of members and guest readers.  I strongly suggest you take advantage of all the available information before trying to find fault with isolated aspects of past study, aspects that need to be kept in context with the entire work and it's resultant conclusion.

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Post by Jill Havern on 27.08.18 17:40

Last comment from PeterMac:

if we look at the satellite image in question, that of 3/5/7 
we see that there IS, very clearly, cloud over Pdl, and scattered smaller clouds over the whole area to the west, - and there was a WSW breeze . . . 


Image 1 shows PdL, Lagos on the point to the east and Faro on the next point.
Image 2 show their positions on Google earth. I labelled Baptista supermarket, because the red pointer for PdL is a long way out of town to the west.


Image 3 is a enlarged version of 1, but it shows a clear bank of cloud over PdL, running north-south, and many other clouds brewing to the west.
Enough to diffuse the sunshine, and to negate the possibility of sharp shadows.
Each pixel is approximately 4 km x 4 km.
Image 4 is a ludicrously enlarged version, but the colour difference is sufficient to indicate which is cloud and which is not.


Faro is where the girl was standing (in the ebook) and the photo was taken out to the ESE
Lagos is where the photo of the tall rock on the deserted beach was taken, again the photo was taken to the ESE, 
so both photos show broken cloud and patches of clear sky over the sea.
As do the photos taken of the windsurfing, and everywhere else.


Another piece of detailed research worth doing I think.
Thank you



  4 Attached Images
Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 GetPart?uid=30013780&partId=2&scope=STANDARD&saveAs=1.+3%3A5%3A7+showing+Pdl
Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 GetPart?uid=30013780&partId=3&scope=STANDARD&saveAs=2.+Pdl
Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 GetPart?uid=30013780&partId=4&scope=STANDARD&saveAs=3.+ZOOM
Photographs Revisited - general - Page 4 GetPart?uid=30013780&partId=5&scope=STANDARD&saveAs=4.+ZOOM+1

And of course ANYONE can do this.  The images can be downloaded afresh, and subjected to any analysis anyone wants
We have no monopoly or special sources, or private information.
We are working with what is in the public domain
and SHARING it.

All the images are in the ebook and many sites on the internet http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Post by PLL on 27.08.18 17:58

Verdi, of course that proves nothing, but if they were thinking about pool or beach when they left the children, that may mean the weather might not be that bad.

Believe me, I'd like to read everything written in this forum, but it accumulates now almost 350.000 posts now and I won't live forever!

For the picture, I really don't have a final opinion on its date, it might really be April 29th. The McCanns say it was taken on the fateful day, but they lie all the time.

The "Processo" has more than 150 holiday pictures, which are useless for us as they are printed in pure black and white. I'm afraid anyone who can check those pictures in true colour, like Amaral did, can date the so-called last photo very easily.

Jill, I'd like very much to watch your pictures, but there's something wrong, I can't open them, it directs me to AOL and asks for signing in.

For the clouds, I really can't see them above PDL in the timestamped satellite image. If a judge asked me to point them at PDL, I couldn't but point them eastward from there.
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Post by Verdi on 27.08.18 18:14

@PLL wrote:Believe me, I'd like to read everything written in this forum, but it accumulates now almost 350.000 posts now and I won't live forever!

The "Processo" has more than 150 holiday pictures, which are useless for us as they are printed in pure black and white. I'm afraid anyone who can check those pictures in true colour, like Amaral did, can date the so-called last photo very easily.

1.  Let me make it simple for you - just read this, thoroughly and in it's entirety.  It will take but an hour of your time.

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

2.  The holiday photographs included in the PJ files have no relevance whatsoever to dating the poolside photograph.  The provenance of the poolside photograph is the all important factor - the photograph wasn't included in the selected images handed over to the PJ by Gerry McCann and Michael Wright - that in itself is reason enough to question it's origin.  It appeared after Gerry McCann's lightening visit to the UK in May 2007.

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Post by Jill Havern on 27.08.18 18:21

@PLL wrote:Jill, I'd like very much to watch your pictures, but there's something wrong, I can't open them, it directs me to AOL and asks for signing in.
Ah. That's because I copied them from the email Peter sent me.
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Post by PLL on 27.08.18 18:31

Verdi, I can't read that blog in its entirety in 1 hour...

Can you tell me which part to see? I already read about Petermac's consideration on weather registered in Faro and Sagres and by some people, but I can't recall exactly where (it was from a link in this forum anyway).

Those McCanns hid that picture, which makes it quite suspicious, and they probably hid other pictures. Anyway, I'm afraid it can be challenged against the "Processo" pictures and easily dated. IMHO.
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Post by Verdi on 27.08.18 21:44

@PLL wrote:Can you tell me which part to see? I already read about Petermac's consideration on weather registered in Faro and Sagres and by some people, but I can't recall exactly where (it was from a link in this forum anyway).
All you need do is scroll through the list of chapters listed in the link provided - provided more than once I might add.

It takes but a minute to identify the chapters that relate to the 'last photograph' and closely related topics.  Whether or not you can find the time to read them is a matter for you alone to decide.  Never know, you might even find some other topic covered that could improve your knowledge of the case of missing Madeleine McCann.

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Post by PLL on 27.08.18 23:01

Now I see where I found Petermac's book here in the forum, there a Category for it. I'm not very used to this as yet.

Sure, I'd like to read it all. And also the "Processo" with more than 11.000 pages. I'll read them as far as I can.

Some important information would be analysing all phone communications by Tapas 9, Murat and people connected with him. Here I'd start by May 3-4th, even tough I know you won't agree.

Also, it would be more than interesting to know the whereabouts of Gerry's rented car from May 24th until the British dogs came.
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Post by Verdi on 27.08.18 23:53

@PLL wrote:Some important information would be analysing all phone communications by Tapas 9, Murat and people connected with him. Here I'd start by May 3-4th, even tough I know you won't agree.

Also, it would be more than interesting to know the whereabouts of Gerry's rented car from May 24th until the British dogs came.
You seem to be quite familiar with the format of the forum - it took me forever to find my way around so well done you for mastering all the advantages in only a few hours bow2 .

If your comment was directed at me personally - why do you think I wouldn't agree with analysis of the Tapas 9 and Robert Murat phone records?  I'm in favour of anything, that's anything, that might forward this case towards a satisfactory conclusion.  If you would like to initiate the project, just let admin know and we will help you set it up here on CMoMM!
 
The whereabouts of the rented Renault Scenic between 24th May and the dog inspections?  There is some documented evidence of specific journeys, like the trip to Heulva in Spain but on a day to day basis there is no way of telling.  It's pointless trying to make something out of nothing, without evidence there is no trail to follow.

However, this is not the thread to discuss either subject.

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Post by PLL on 28.08.18 0:51

Well, this is becoming a little off-topic indeed, but I'd like you to have my comment.

First, I'm impressed that you think so about the forum, as I still don't feel very secure and it's not very easy finding things here, even ones that I already visited. Thanks, anyway big grin

I'm sure you agree about phone investigations. My doubts are on agreement about dates, May 3-4th, as I already understood that most people here would favour April 29th. But I didn't mean anyone personally, Verdi. Opinions are divergent but I'm sure Maddie, wherever she is, will thank that people caring for her keep united even if they don't all think the same way.

When they went to Huelva, the British dogs had already sniffed their apartment and car, so I think they had already given a fate to poor Maddie. By the way, there's something intriguing about McCann's trip to Huelva in that there's a ping from Gerry's mobile at 13:58:00 captured in Vila Real de Santo António, when he was supposed to be in Huelva. I don't think that a VRSA cell can reach Huelva (this is a loose thought as I didn't explore what's been written about it neither have I studied that deep, just found the detail jumping throughout "Processo" files).

I won't saturate this thread with more things off-topic. I think major questions have been discussed, so I'll explore other threads and come here if necessary only.
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