Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

by Mirage 10.01.14 11:54

A very interesting read on Sir Robert Mark, Tony. I remember the Balcombe street seige amongst other snippets.

Looking at his achievements leaves you, head in hands. I noticed for example, that while the deputy commissioner struggled to read a statement outside the Duggan court this week while facing a (predictably) very ugly crowd, Hogan-Howe was busy in the office drafting statements about how the police must look more like, and feel more like, Londoners. What a load of tripe.

by **Tony Bennett** 10.01.14 12:08

Mirage wrote:A very interesting read on Sir Robert Mark, Tony. I remember the Balcombe street seige amongst other snippets.

Looking at his achievements leaves you, head in hands. I noticed for example, that while the deputy commissioner struggled to read a statement outside the Duggan court this week while facing a (predictably) very ugly crowd, Hogan-Howe was busy in the office drafting statements about how the police must look more like, and feel more like, Londoners. What a load of tripe.

Yes, Muslim police officers patrolling the streets of Tower Hamlets in niqabs and burkas. That'll really make a difference!

by whatliesbehindthesofa 10.01.14 12:09

I watched Hogan-Howe's interview on the C4 news the other night. These are just my own instinctual feelings, but I came away with a great sense of dislike and distrust.

I have remained optimistic that SY are doing the right thing, but I have to say that this week my faith in them has come crashing down.

On a personal note, I've known a few police officers, not least of whom is my own father, now retired. He said that his job was to "lie for a living", that the policing in 'Life on Mars' was pretty accurate, and that these days all the police are interested in is money and public relations, actual justice coming in a very sad last place. I had an acquaintance (not a friend) who became a police office to "beat up" (his words) a particular ethnic minority. On the other hand, I knew one particular Chief Inspector for years who was one of the finest, most honourable people I've known. And from PeterMac's work on this forum, I'm certain that he has much in common with him.

The police are a mixed bag, for certain.

by Mirage 10.01.14 12:11

Following on from the conversation about police officers making public statements that can come back to haunt them, the following re Hogan-Howe and plebgate:

Lord Macdonald criticised Sir Bernard for saying he believed his officers had told the truth before the investigation began. The peer said the remark was “plain foolish” and “a remarkable act of fairground clairvoyance”. (does he mean spin?)
----------------------
Let us sincerely hope that no other pre-investigation bias ever rears its ugly head ever ever again at Scotland Yard.
Ever.

by Guest 10.01.14 12:17

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
The police are a mixed bag, for certain.

Well, quite. The Police are only a microcosm of society, and just look at the state of society. There's just such a lack of probity among the general populace.

As an aside, I got offered a job recently. I'm not really qualified for it, but the chap said that they had received over five hundred applications and mine was the only one that was written in anything like a coherent fashion. This was for a quasi-legal type position!

With regard to the Police, if you're picking form a pool of mediocrity then mediocrity is what you're going to get. It's as simple as that. The fact that corruption is utterly endemic in all areas of public life doesn't help matters, of course.

by Mirage 10.01.14 12:19

Tony Bennett wrote:
Mirage wrote:A very interesting read on Sir Robert Mark, Tony. I remember the Balcombe street seige amongst other snippets.

Looking at his achievements leaves you, head in hands. I noticed for example, that while the deputy commissioner struggled to read a statement outside the Duggan court this week while facing a (predictably) very ugly crowd, Hogan-Howe was busy in the office drafting statements about how the police must look more like, and feel more like, Londoners. What a load of tripe.

Yes, Muslim police officers patrolling the streets of Tower Hamlets in niqabs and burkas. That'll really make a difference!

"That'll really make a difference"
-----------------

And possibly unidentifiable?

I feel another doctorate from Portsmouth University coming on: Undercover Policing in London.

by aiyoyo 10.01.14 13:01

Mirage wrote:
plebgate wrote:Re. the expense of all of this. Would be good if we could be told whether a lie detector request has been made by SY/PJ for them ALL to do a polygraph test. It could be the case that millions more of public funds need not be spent. My opinion of course because it is possible new info. could come to light.

Only - and I mean only Plebgate, as long as that Dr Leal is not in charge of the process!

Set a Liar to catch a Liar ! Good Innit?

by **PeterMac** 10.01.14 18:32

Robert Mark was a family friend through the Hulme Grammar school.
When I was 18 and he was DAC he advised me never to join the Met ! !

by Guest 10.01.14 18:56

Shocking!!!

by ultimaThule 10.01.14 19:07

Mirage wrote:Following on from the conversation about police officers making public statements that can come back to haunt them, the following re Hogan-Howe and plebgate:

Lord Macdonald criticised Sir Bernard for saying he believed his officers had told the truth before the investigation began. The peer said the remark was “plain foolish” and “a remarkable act of fairground clairvoyance”. (does he mean spin?)
----------------------
Let us sincerely hope that no other pre-investigation bias ever rears its ugly head ever ever again at Scotland Yard.
Ever.

What does Lord Macdonald make of Dr Sharon Leal's pronouncement that the McCanns are 100% innocent?

As soon as Mark retired it was business as usual at SY. The current gaggle of posing and posturing clowns running the Met are a disgrace and with officers such as DI Clive Driscoll being forced into retirement, I very much doubt that the era of pre-investigation bias is at an end.

Fwiw, Shazza is a prime example of confirmation bias contributing to overconfidence and it's somewhat worrying that her biography claims her 'work involves co-operation with national and international governments and police' with no explanation of whether she is expected to co-operate with them, or they are expected to co-operate with her psychological egoism which predisposes her to cite illusory correlation as fact.

by Mirage 10.01.14 19:29

ultimaThule wrote:
Mirage wrote:Following on from the conversation about police officers making public statements that can come back to haunt them, the following re Hogan-Howe and plebgate:

Lord Macdonald criticised Sir Bernard for saying he believed his officers had told the truth before the investigation began. The peer said the remark was “plain foolish” and “a remarkable act of fairground clairvoyance”. (does he mean spin?)
----------------------
Let us sincerely hope that no other pre-investigation bias ever rears its ugly head ever ever again at Scotland Yard.
Ever.
What does Lord Macdonald make of Dr Sharon Leal's pronouncement that the McCanns are 100% innocent?

As soon as Mark retired it was business as usual at SY. The current gaggle of posing and posturing clowns running the Met are a disgrace and with officers such as DI Clive Driscoll being forced into retirement, I very much doubt that the era of pre-investigation bias is at an end.

Fwiw, Shazza is a prime example of confirmation bias contributing to overconfidence and it's somewhat worrying that her biography claims her 'work involves co-operation with national and international governments and police' with no explanation of whether she is expected to co-operate with them, or they are expected to co-operate with her psychological egoism which predisposes her to cite illusory correlation as fact.

I noticed that Driscoll was going, UT. Significantly, Doreen Lawrence stated she was very upset about it because he was the only policeman she had ever trusted and that there were more culprits to be brought to book than the two already gaoled. Makes me wonder, having lived in SE London for many years!!!

Do we know the low down on Driscoll's sudden departure? Sounded a good guy to me so probably didn't fit in. Tut tut, cynicism again. Just that you pick up the vibes from that era and that area if you know what I mean.

Btw UT, many thanks for your kind wishes of yesterday.

by Guest 10.01.14 20:43

Home Office apparently confused as to whether they received his offer of resignation or not.

Then they, sort of... erm, as it were, decided they didn't after all. I think.

Sounds almost like a Tapas 9 statement. Sort of. Erm.

by jeanmonroe 10.01.14 21:17

I predict Hogan-Howe will resign very shortly (out of honour, not to protect his pension, you'll understand).

He is facing a sh*t storm and now THIS:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-25685107

Hillsborough (cover up)
Plebgate (he backed officers 100% saying 'why would they lie?') Then one pleads guilty to doing just that, today.
Lawrence spying (SDS) He knew.
Dead kids names by cops (he knew)
Raised funds for possible future suspects.

He's toast.
And then perhaps Andy will grow a pair and 'do the right thing' for Madeleine before he goes as well.

all imo, obviously.

You heard it HERE first!

by **PeterMac** 10.01.14 22:36

There seems to be an awful lot of 100% flying around at the moment.

Why not just say you agree, or support, or believe on the balance of probabilities, or whatever.

by Okeydokey 10.01.14 22:45

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:I watched Hogan-Howe's interview on the C4 news the other night. These are just my own instinctual feelings, but I came away with a great sense of dislike and distrust.

I have remained optimistic that SY are doing the right thing, but I have to say that this week my faith in them has come crashing down.

On a personal note, I've known a few police officers, not least of whom is my own father, now retired. He said that his job was to "lie for a living", that the policing in 'Life on Mars' was pretty accurate, and that these days all the police are interested in is money and public relations, actual justice coming in a very sad last place. I had an acquaintance (not a friend) who became a police office to "beat up" (his words) a particular ethnic minority. On the other hand, I knew one particular Chief Inspector for years who was one of the finest, most honourable people I've known. And from PeterMac's work on this forum, I'm certain that he has much in common with him.

The police are a mixed bag, for certain.

It's sad when one has to give up one's faith in the Police.

Just out of interest - was your Dad a Freemason or did he have any views on how the prevalence of Freemasonry within the Police?

by Mirage 10.01.14 22:57

Re: Hillsborough.

Private Eye magazine had a freedom of information (FOI) request turned down by the Met.

The Met has yet to comment, but reportedly turned down the FOI request to "safeguard national security".

-----------------------

Wasn't the same excuse given re an FOI request about the Mcs?

Convenient little coverall national security.

by jeanmonroe 10.01.14 23:17

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
I watched Hogan-Howe's interview on the C4 news the other night. These are just my own instinctual feelings, but I came away with a great sense of dislike and distrust.
==================================================================

Does anyone seriously think that BHH, who helped raise money, for the McCanns PRIVATE Ltd 'enterprise' is going to let DCI Redwood find his 'friends' possibly guilty of anything, other than 'Sainthood'?

thinking

er, um, ...NO!

The current Met Commissioner BHH raised money for a couple that might possibly be implicated in their own daughters 'disappearance'!

by Guest 10.01.14 23:20

Mirage wrote:Re: Hillsborough.

Private Eye magazine had a freedom of information (FOI) request turned down by the Met.

The Met has yet to comment, but reportedly turned down the FOI request to "safeguard national security".

-----------------------

Wasn't the same excuse given re an FOI request about the Mcs?

Convenient little coverall national security.

Hmm. The same phrase used by Leicestershire police when they turned down the foi request from Jon Clements when he enquired about potential surveillance techniques being used in the McCann case. (In addition the information he requested could also refer to 'the security bodies' i.e., MI5 et al, they said in their reply to him.) So he got a big fat 'no' too.

Perhaps we can take rhe phrase 'national security' to mean 'protecting our own asses' when used by police forces being confronted by nasty questions? Or is it more literal than that?

by sallypelt 10.01.14 23:29

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/1/10/281619/default/v1/110114-independent-1-329x437.jpg

by jeanmonroe 10.01.14 23:39

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10563836/Plebgate-Cameron-condemns-lying-by-police-officer.html

“It is completely unacceptable for a serving police officer to falsify an account of any incident," said Mr Cameron.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A serving, lying, police officer that Cameron/May appointee Hogan-Howe 'totally backed' 100%!

UNTIL TODAY RIGHT UP TO THE STEPS OF THE COURT!

Where the officer pleaded guilty to blatantly lying!

I'd have fallen on my sword, instantly!

Hogan-Howe, Norman Bettison BOTH cast from the same mould, imo.

Rotten to the core, in my opinion.

by Mirage 11.01.14 0:16

jeanmonroe wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10563836/Plebgate-Cameron-condemns-lying-by-police-officer.html

“It is completely unacceptable for a serving police officer to falsify an account of any incident," said Mr Cameron.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A serving, lying, police officer that Cameron/May appointee Hogan-Howe 'totally backed' 100%!

UNTIL TODAY RIGHT UP TO THE STEPS OF THE COURT!

Where the officer pleaded guilty to blatantly lying!

I'd have fallen on my sword, instantly!

Hogan-Howe, Norman Bettison BOTH cast from the same mould, imo.

Rotten to the core, in my opinion.

Apparently PC Plebgate-Liar fell far below the standards expected at the MET according to Hogan-Howe!!!

Err, is that it?

by Halfwit 11.01.14 0:20

jeanmonroe wrote:whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
I watched Hogan-Howe's interview on the C4 news the other night. These are just my own instinctual feelings, but I came away with a great sense of dislike and distrust.
==================================================================

Does anyone seriously think that BHH, who helped raise money, for the McCanns PRIVATE Ltd 'enterprise' is going to let DCI Redwood find his 'friends' possibly guilty of anything, other than 'Sainthood'?

er, um, ...NO!

The current Met Commissioner BHH raised money for a couple that might possibly be implicated in their own daughters 'disappearance'!

I find that so scary.

The implications of corruption from the top of Government downwards... And now I do believe that they're all corrupt. I'm no Icke fan or conspiracy theorist but my ears pricked up over David Kelly and the police involvement in that.

I joined this forum a few days ago because I think its evolved into the best forum. It's found its feet with great mods and thoughtful, interesting posters. I've been dipping in and out from the start and have nothing new to add but tonight I'm feeling that it will never be resolved.

I despair that the truth of this will ever be revealed.

by marconi 11.01.14 0:27

Is it a coincidence or on purpose? The Telegraaf announces further steps of the Yard's and the Independent publishes about the corruption of that police.

What is behind it? THe identification of 3 persons of interest, does the Independent want to crash eventual conclusions, is it protecting the parents? "Whatever the Met say, they are corrupt and it is not true"?

by Okeydokey 11.01.14 0:40

jeanmonroe wrote:whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
I watched Hogan-Howe's interview on the C4 news the other night. These are just my own instinctual feelings, but I came away with a great sense of dislike and distrust.
==================================================================

Does anyone seriously think that BHH, who helped raise money, for the McCanns PRIVATE Ltd 'enterprise' is going to let DCI Redwood find his 'friends' possibly guilty of anything, other than 'Sainthood'?

er, um, ...NO!

The current Met Commissioner BHH raised money for a couple that might possibly be implicated in their own daughters 'disappearance'!

Sadly, I agree.

by jeanmonroe 11.01.14 0:41

"Whatever the Met say, they are corrupt and it is not true"
----------------------------------------------------
Oxymoron thingy? Or me being a moron?

"they are corrupt......it is not true"

Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14