Re: Justice or Whitewash?

by petunia 26.10.13 20:23

thetruthbeknown wrote:
petunia wrote:i have voted Justice because things to me feel different this time.I think one of the Tapas has broken ranks and told what they know, but SY and the PJ knowing what the mccanns and there spin machine are like need to make sure the case against them is 100% watertight and nothing less than that will do all imo.
wow, that would be really interesting if a Tapas member had broken ranks..which do you suggest? I did notice that the Paynes had faded a bit..maybe one of them? Interesting line of thinking

thetruthbeknown i am going with Jane.after all these years of tannerman and now he has mysteriously disappeared,and if she has grassed imo SY will protect her.

by petunia 26.10.13 20:33

garfy wrote:
thetruthbeknown wrote:
petunia wrote:i have voted Justice because things to me feel different this time.I think one of the Tapas has broken ranks and told what they know, but SY and the PJ knowing what the mccanns and there spin machine are like need to make sure the case against them is 100% watertight and nothing less than that will do all imo.
wow, that would be really interesting if a Tapas member had broken ranks..which do you suggest? I did notice that the Paynes had faded a bit..maybe one of them? Interesting line of thinking
good point petunia...

could it be Jane tanner .....that's why her sighting was conveniently covered up

garfy i am feeling it's jane.

by Smokeandmirrors 26.10.13 20:36

With this whole justice/whitewash issue I keep changing my mind. The latest developments have left me totally confused, I don't mind admitting that. When crime watch was shown, I thought there were some good steps forward with the discounting Tannerman. I was curious about the omission of the Paynes particularly David's alleged visit to the apartment which would account for the last sighting of Madeleine, though there would be obvious bias to take into consideration.

I observed Andy Redwood with interest and wasn't convinced he wasn't trying to convince the viewer of a scenario somewhat different from the reality, because that's what happens in an investigation - or at least should be the case, keeping cards close to the chest etc.

The one thing that propels me towards thinking justice will finally be served is the omission in ALL recent presentations, of stating that they are looking at a STRANGER abduction. This has not been implicitly stated.

On the other hand, I cannot help but feel that there is some sort of bigger picture, some involvement by other, more "important" individuals in some sort of pedophile connection to this case (we have Yewtree and Fernbridge ongoing, and other pointers that cannot be mentioned for reasons of libel accusations). And depending WHO is involved and WHAT is at stake, it may very well be that those who are pulling the strings here might go to ANY lengths to prevent public exposure.

Definitely I'm a fence sitter at this point.

by thetruthbeknown 26.10.13 20:43

petunia wrote:
garfy wrote:
thetruthbeknown wrote:
petunia wrote:i have voted Justice because things to me feel different this time.I think one of the Tapas has broken ranks and told what they know, but SY and the PJ knowing what the mccanns and there spin machine are like need to make sure the case against them is 100% watertight and nothing less than that will do all imo.
wow, that would be really interesting if a Tapas member had broken ranks..which do you suggest? I did notice that the Paynes had faded a bit..maybe one of them? Interesting line of thinking
good point petunia...

could it be Jane tanner .....that's why her sighting was conveniently covered up
garfy i am feeling it's jane.

Interesting...you know what..it wouldnt be unusual to do a bit of 'bargaining' if it means a close to a case..I know im new here, and yes im a bit 'niave' in the ins and outs of the Mccann case, im still reading..but I do have knowledge of police procedure, here and abroad :) And thats quite possible, if she had broken, and said she didnt want it known that she had identified tannerman in order to cause distraction, or cover up..then yes, its a possibility a police force (although no experience of one such as SY, which may be far stricter?) Would allow a 'smoothing over' of that particular fact, in return for the information needed for conviction ....

by Guest 26.10.13 20:43

Very reluctantly a whitewash. Whatever caused it to be a whitewash the first time still remains in the murky background. Whatever was being protected then is so big as to be a matter of national security, according to the Leicestershire police. I fear it's to do with the alleged 'elite paedophile' ring some believe is operational right up through the higher echelons of our society. I hope and pray that no such ring exists and Madeleine wasn't caught up in any such evil, but there was a reason for Blair and Brown's interference and the whisking away from Portugal of the McCanns when things got sticky. Monstrousness on that scale does not go away as the implications and consequences for the fabric of our constitution if some of the most powerful people are found to be involved would be catastrophic and would not be allowed to happen. It would not be permitted. Ever.

Only if something has changed which allows any culpability of the McCanns to be revealed without linking the tragedy to the above theory (and it's purely a horrible theory which may or may not have any legs) or indeed any other shady dealings which were happening at that time will, I believe, see Madeleine get her justice.

I hope and pray that's the case and she will. But I fear it's a small hope, albeit one that does still exist. Justice for Madeleine. pray2

by notlongnow 26.10.13 20:45

I feel it maybe a deal that was struck over tannerman.
But that would also let whoever else is involved know to.

by Beanie 26.10.13 20:52

When Sofia Leal wrote the open letter stating the McCanns had friends who were paedophiles I assumed she was referring to the Gasper statement! Perhaps Sofia was referring to others as well.

by Beanie 26.10.13 21:31

Well after reading Pat Brown's new post I am feeling very down sad

by plebgate 26.10.13 21:38

I have no knowledge of how police go about their business but if one of them had cracked, told everything, (whatever that is) why wouldn't the cops haul them all in, tell them that they have a confession and know everything.

If one of them has cracked I think they would be asking for a deal for their partner as well, so that would mean that at least two had "told all"?

Why not just arrest the lot, questions and then bail them pending further enquiries?

This is what happens on the cops shows lol.

by susible 26.10.13 21:42

Beanie wrote:Well after reading Pat Brown's new post I am feeling very down

Whilst I admire Pat Brown for her stance in relation to the case, I think we have to remember that she is just voicing her opinion and I have noticed that recently she's been particularly negative about the possible outcome of the case, but I don't think her views are based on any real information, how could it be and although I do understand why people may not believe that there will be a satisfactory outcome, I don't see any justification for those opinions, in fact I see the total opposite.

by thetruthbeknown 26.10.13 21:45

plebgate wrote:I have no knowledge of how police go about their business but if one of them had cracked, told everything, (whatever that is) why wouldn't the cops haul them all in, tell them that they have a confession and know everything.

If one of them has cracked I think they would be asking for a deal for their partner as well, so that would mean that at least two had "told all"?

Why not just arrest the lot, questions and then bail them pending further enquiries?

This is what happens on the cops shows lol.

You still have to have proof..it doesnt matter who says what...I guess we will see what happens as the case progresses :)

by plebgate 26.10.13 21:50

Yes you still have to have proof that is why people are bailed and police continue with their enquiries?

If I were on the the tapas crew and police told me that they had (possibly) two people who had "cracked", then I think I might well "crack" also and try and make things easier (if that is possible) for both my partner and myself. Anyone with any sense would I think?

As you say, we will have to wait and see. smilie

by Beanie 26.10.13 21:51

susible wrote:
Beanie wrote:Well after reading Pat Brown's new post I am feeling very down
Whilst I admire Pat Brown for her stance in relation to the case, I think we have to remember that she is just voicing her opinion and I have noticed that recently she's been particularly negative about the possible outcome of the case, but I don't think her views are based on any real information, how could it be and although I do understand why people may not believe that there will be a satisfactory outcome, I don't see any justification for those opinions, in fact I see the total opposite.

Thank you susible I will hold on to that. Also the fact that Goncalo Amaral seems to accept the reopening of the case.

by thetruthbeknown 26.10.13 22:02

plebgate wrote:Yes you still have to have proof that is why people are bailed and police continue with their enquiries?

If I were on the the tapas crew and police told me that they had (possibly) two people who had "cracked", then I think I might well "crack" also and try and make things easier (if that is possible) for both my partner and myself. Anyone with any sense would I think?

As you say, we will have to wait and see.

Yes, the 'crack' is just a theory smilie

But after the last time...they wont be taking any chances I wouldnd think..they would want this one signed sealed and delivered, yes?

by Bobby Peru 26.10.13 23:00

Justice.

A whitewash would have to entail both NYS and PJ putting all their chips on the abduction theory; a theory that, in my opinion, has little merit.

What evidence do either NYS or PJ have to support the notion that an individual or a team prosecuted a precise extraction of a three year old from an apartment in a holiday complex, effected a swift escape, and ensured that their captive remains out of sight for the next six years?

Here's the evidence that both NYS and PJ will have to chew over when attempting to justify any abduction hypothesis:

Forensic evidence - nil evidence that points to abduction
Physical evidence - errr, still nil evidence that would point to an abduction
Witness evidence - believe it or not, still no evidence that would support the abduction theory, i.e. not once single verified sighting of Madeleine being smuggled out of PDL.

That's a real head-scratcher for the abduction-mongers.

In order to pull off the crime of this, or any other millennium for that matter - a crime with no trace of forensic evidence to point to abductors. no physical evidence of any intrusion, and nobody positively identifying either Madeleine or her tormentors - this group would not only have to be highly organised but also possess a high degree of sophistication in order to succeed in such a spectacular way. Therefore, it's highly likely there would have been a history of similar abductions, remembering that if it were abduction it was almost certainly a preferential crime as two easier targets were eschewed.

Their modus operandi would have been perfected, but guess what folks, there's no history of abductions that replicate what occurred at the OC.

Does anybody seriously believe that person or persons unknown had evolved from bungled forced entry attempts at PDL, including the fabled 'dry-run', to a crime that was not only perfectly executed, but also managed to leave real evidence that implicated K&G and pointed to a cadaver having been present in 5a?

Would such sophisticated operators be so capricious that they would risk hanging around a select holiday resort on the vague off-chance that they would stumble upon a couple of well-educated middle-class stooges who happen to think it's acceptable to leave a three year-old in charge of 18 month twins whilst they repair to a tapas bar on the p!ss? What a perfect storm that would have to be.

Both NYS and PJ know full well that any hypothesis has to be put to rigorous test. The abduction theory fails every test.

However....... how likely is it for one or two individuals with narcissistic psychopathy to evolve from neglect to physical abuse? This cannot be lost on either NYS or PJ.

Both NYS OR PJ are as likely to give away their game plan as Arsene Wenger is of disclosing his tactics for next week's encounter against Liverpool.

by Lance De Boils 26.10.13 23:33

Woofer wrote:If it is a whitewash, it will obviously be to protect the McCanns. I doubt there would be a whitewash if they were solely guilty - I think they would have been charged by now. But if they were part of an organisation like Operation Ore to lure and trap paedophiles, obviously Jim Gamble is going to back them and probably our police force and government. All the Tapas could be in the know if it had been going on for a few years and would explain why DP asked GM if `she did this and that` as they would be using their children as lures. All little blonde girls and one in particularly who wore make up sometimes and posed provocatively. If the detectives who were watching the apartment out on the street missed catching the paedos, the operation would be to blame. It is really the only reason I can think of them legitimately being protected. This is just a suggestion and not to be taken as true.

That has crossed my mind before now.

But then, virtually every scenario possible has crossed my mind at some point!

by Cerinthe 27.10.13 0:58

I'm a don't know too, so I didn't vote.

Going by past events whitewash would be the obvious conclusion. The McCanns have got away with it this far, clearly with some help, so why would this time around be any different?

On the other hand my heart holds out for justice: Madeleine doesn't rest in peace and she deserves the real story of what happened to her to be revealed.

I think the outcome of the libel trial will show which way the wind is blowing. The Portuguese police files point to the parents being involved, the dogs say that someone died in the apartment. Both those things are still outstanding.

Head says whitewash, heart stays hopeful.

by loopzdaloop 27.10.13 1:02

Enough of this 'whitewash' nonsense with not a shred of anything to support the idea yet, considering we know very little from Redwood Et al.

by lj 27.10.13 2:31

It all depends on what you call justice and white wash I think. I never believed in preplanned murder or paedophile theories, although I have to admit I find David Payne and Jon Conner very creepy, their statements are really off. My best guess is that there was an accident, maybe under some sedation, and they hid the body.
However, whatever happened, the parents are at the core of it, because of their neglect. Yes, I know, a lot of you don't believe in the neglect, but I do. Really a sane person could not make that up.

So for me justice would mean coming up with an acceptable explanantion, dead paedos are not. Furthermore the disastrous role of the parents should be made public so Kate never can say again: "it's not as if we did something wrong". On an aside, I would have Kate write 10x per day "yes, I did something wrong", maybe that will get through to her head.

The role of the various McCann enablers should be laid out.

I do not believe that the cover up is because the McCanns are something special, because they clearly are not. From the beginning I have said that they had a lot of people out of sympathy jumping their bandwagon and playing their tune. They did do that with a lot of noise and some very shady activities. "Important" people don't want to look stupid. But the stupidity only grew with each further attempt to "save" the pathetic parents. Can you imagine how Andy would look if he has to go on the screen again and tell the world that the only culprits are the parents? it really would look like a big satire, so that's not gonna happen. Therefore I don't believe there will be full clarity and justice. Too many people beside Andy that have eggs on their face, just think of Leveson to name an example. The timing of this enormous media violence in itself says enough: Dr. Amaral has to be silenced, even if it is through making a lot of noise on other channels. Anything goes.

ETA: I am just starting on the WOW thread. It will probably link to gary Hagland. Anyway, just confirms what I was trying to say.

by lj 27.10.13 5:24

loopzdaloop wrote:Enough of this 'whitewash' nonsense with not a shred of anything to support the idea yet, considering we know very little from Redwood Et al.

So you want people only to choose "justice"? Well there's a freedom of speech.

by SixMillionQuid 27.10.13 7:36

loopzdaloop wrote:Enough of this 'whitewash' nonsense with not a shred of anything to support the idea yet, considering we know very little from Redwood Et al.

Can you explain how after a 2.5 year review of the case the parents are not suspects, will suddenly become suspects again? How will that happen?

by The Rooster 27.10.13 8:00

Put the kids up as lures to aid the capture of nonces. Who the f**k is going to allow their children to be used for that purpose. Regarding the whitewash scenario, I don't believe a word that the British press publish. From the Telegraph to the Star they are all a disgrace. If you want to whitewash you don't air the dirty laundry in public. The McCann's are filthy and have only got away with events so far because they have fortunately for them been caught between two jurisdictions. Well they aren't now because two sides are playing for a credible outcome with the two freaks in the middle.

When the police do a raid it's at 5.00am not tea time.

by The Rooster 27.10.13 8:19

Great post from Bobby Peru. I like the thought process. With regards to the Arsenal - Liverpool game Wengers bet over 2.5 Goals; so it doesn't matter who wins, the McCanns lose... So to speak!

by Praiaaa 27.10.13 9:04

I'm also of the opinion that JT cracked (who wouldn't after the pressure of these years, with her kids growing up - how can she have had a blissful family life is she was waiting for the 5am knock at the door?) , and imo the quidproquo was the face saving finding of crecheman.

by MarleneP 29.10.13 7:55

PJ searches for Maddie's body again

Hypothesis of homicide is investigated by the authorities. Follow the investigation with CM.

by Ana Isabel Fonseca/ Tânia Laranjo

The Judiciary Police has already taken steps to try to find Maddie's body, following the reopening of the case. The hypothesis that the British girl was murdered is one of the lines of investigation being followed by the inspectors. The thesis of homicide integrates the framework of a kidnapping for reasons connected to paedophilia.

The CM knows that the Judiciary Police has undertaken several steps in recent days to try to discover Maddie's body, who disappeared on the night of May 3, 2007 from her bedroom at the tourist resort of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, Lagos.

The inspectors in charge of the case have for that matter presented evidence supporting this hypothesis to the Public Ministry, who decided, last Thursday, to reopen the investigation.

Shortly after the disappearance of Madeleine, the PJ took steps to try to find the cadaver, but those proved fruitless. Inspectors received at the time several false leads about the possible location of the girl's corpse, who was at the time the crime, three years old.

The Judiciary Police also heard several witnesses and returned to the village of Praia da Luz. There, the inspectors took the opportunity to check the location of mobile phone masts.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/10/pj-searches-for-maddies-body-again.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JoanaMorais+%28Joana+Morais%29