Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

by **PeterMac** 13.09.13 22:51

Ribisl wrote:

Remembering that this judge must have read GA`s book.
and the PJ files.

And all the other evidence from GA,which includes all sorts of stuff about which we have no idea.
Plus some which we do.
Because we have told him.

by Newintown 13.09.13 23:00

russiandoll wrote:I can't believe, given the background to this trial, that the child psychologist said this re the twins

"It's important for them to know that the world is safe and the parents will protect them."

oh the irony of that statement!

Possibly the judge got a migraine after hearing that and had to lie down in a dark room for a few hours..........

Deleted - I replied to wrong post.

by Newintown 13.09.13 23:04

Woofer wrote:
marconi wrote:
Woofer wrote:I`m wondering if Judge Maria whatsername can understand English - or perhaps they have interpreters in the Court.

There`s no point having any of the T7 as witnesses because they possibly weren`t as close to the McCanns around the time the book was published.

Martin Brunt didn`t report anything from the morning session which is odd and if the judge didn`t end proceedings until after lunch, why didn`t he at least tweet.
I believe that in official cases, it is obliged to have a translator recognized by law.

I understood that the McCanns and the Paynes continued being friends for a long time after they went back to England. And they live not far away from each other.
Thanks Marconi. Perhaps they`re not so friendly now.

Still think its weird that Sky News (Murdoch`s) pulled Martin Brunt off the case - he must have left Thursday night/Friday morning. Who might not want the case reported?

Aren`t the McCanns matey with the Murdochs?

I think all court cases in the UK are recorded and kept on file for future reference and for legal people to follow any precedence set by the case, perhaps TB could confirm that, so it is probably the same in Portugal, although it would all be written in Portugese of course. It may be made available sometime in the future.

by suzyjohnson 13.09.13 23:08

Thanks Candyfloss, I was asking (whether the McCanns had started all this with Amaral before the PJ files became available for all to read) because, obviously, there would have been more chance of shutting him up, or shutting his argument down, before that.

'David Trickey - the psychologist who has been helping the McCanns' two other children, twins Sean and Amelie, since 2007 - told the court he was concerned that they would one day be able to read Amaral's book.'

Well, Mr Trickey, at some point I expect the twins are going to want to know exactly what happened in PdL in May 2007, and Amaral's book is only going to be one out of several books and hundreds of other sources they will find.

Of course, if there is no substance to any of Mr Amaral's claims then the McCann's will be able to explain the truth to them.

by maebee 13.09.13 23:20

The best that KM could come up with was a Mr. Trickey. Where were her T7 friends?

by **Tony Bennett** 13.09.13 23:21

Newintown wrote:
I think all court cases in the UK are recorded and kept on file for future reference and for legal people to follow any precedence set by the case, perhaps TB could confirm that, so it is probably the same in Portugal, although it would all be written in Portugese of course. It may be made available sometime in the future.

AFAIK all High Court hearings are now recorded in full on disc, as are all judgments.

Full transcripts of the hearing and any judgments are available on request, if you pay for them - and they cost a lot (unless you are exempt on grouds of low income).

In addition, yes the Court keeps paper records, partly so they can be inspected. I am not certain what can be inspected, whether it is just the written statements of evidence and expert reports etc., or more than that. Also, I don't know for how long they are kept.

You can apply to inspect these records, except where a judge has ruled that for reasons of national security, or to preserve certain highly confidential or sensitive information, the public shall not be allowed to read them. Such a judgment was made by a High Court judge in chambers, ex parte, during Edward Smethurst's libel action against me.

by ShuBob 13.09.13 23:22

Who is paying for the travel and lodging of the McCanns' witnesses who- as far as I know- haven't disputed or even attempted to dispute a single fact contained in Amaral's book? This is supposed to be a libel trial, right? What then is the point these particular witnesses?

by Woofer 13.09.13 23:24

Seek truth wrote:Maddie - A Verdade Da Mentira.

Why is the book for sale now , was it before? McCann files,

Now, that she's at court?

If we buy it, would the money go to to her when she wins?

Perhaps someone else can answer this more precisely - I only know it was for sale, then got banned by the McCanns, then GA got the ban revoked but the McCanns didn`t give him the books back for ages. I assume its still for sale in Portuguese and a few other languages, but not English or in the UK - seems publishers here are fearful of publishing it. If the McCanns win I assume it won`t be able to be bought anywhere and also any money GA has made from its sale will be confiscated by the McCanns. Not sure if I`m right here - so hopefully someone else will correct.

by maebee 13.09.13 23:31

ShuBob wrote:the McCanns' witnesses haven't disputed or even attempted to dispute a single fact contained in Amaral's book?

Hi Shu, Facts cannot be disputed so they haven't tried. It's all a show about the persecution of K&M. This trial has nothing to do with Madeleine Sad

by Woofer 13.09.13 23:33

Newintown wrote:
Woofer wrote:
marconi wrote:
Woofer wrote:I`m wondering if Judge Maria whatsername can understand English - or perhaps they have interpreters in the Court.

There`s no point having any of the T7 as witnesses because they possibly weren`t as close to the McCanns around the time the book was published.

Martin Brunt didn`t report anything from the morning session which is odd and if the judge didn`t end proceedings until after lunch, why didn`t he at least tweet.
I believe that in official cases, it is obliged to have a translator recognized by law.

I understood that the McCanns and the Paynes continued being friends for a long time after they went back to England. And they live not far away from each other.
Thanks Marconi. Perhaps they`re not so friendly now.

Still think its weird that Sky News (Murdoch`s) pulled Martin Brunt off the case - he must have left Thursday night/Friday morning. Who might not want the case reported?

Aren`t the McCanns matey with the Murdochs?
I think all court cases in the UK are recorded and kept on file for future reference and for legal people to follow any precedence set by the case, perhaps TB could confirm that, so it is probably the same in Portugal, although it would all be written in Portugese of course. It may be made available sometime in the future.

Thanks newintown. Its good to know there is a record, but I thought it was weird that someone at Sky News has stopped it being reported in the media. And as Sky News is one of the NewsCorp Groups which is a Murdoch concern, it seems a bit suspect. Also it seems Sky News were the only UK news agency at the trial. The only news we are getting is from Portuguese press. And we`ll obviously get the odd bits from `a friend of the family` or the pink one. Just get the feeling there is someone controlling what comes out in the media.

by justthinking 13.09.13 23:38

QUOTE "Mrs McCann said twins Sean and Amelie, who were just two when their sister went missing, were coping well and were 'no different to any other eight-year-old child'.
'They have grown up knowing that Madeleine is missing, she is their big sister, we're trying to find her and she should be back home with us.
'As they get older and they wander on the internet and other things, there will be more questions, but going by how things have panned out so far I think we will be alright, I think they'll handle it well.'"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2319228/Madeline-McCann-A-tearful-emotional-Gerry-Kate-mark-sixth-anniversary-daughters-disappearance.html#ixzz2eFnc7iny

by **sharonl** 13.09.13 23:42

Woofer wrote:Perhaps someone else can answer this more precisely - I only know it was for sale, then got banned by the McCanns, then GA got the ban revoked but the McCanns didn`t give him the books back for ages.

sharonl: Between the date of publication (July 2008) and the date it was 'banned' (September 2009) Amaral's book was on sale not only in Portugal, but in about 30 other countries. It had been published in French, German, Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Danish, Norwegian and Swedish as well as in Portuguese. It is generally reckoned that his book has sold around 300,000 copies in Portugal and a similar or greater number in other countries. Although the book was banned from September 2009 to October 2010 (when the Portuguese Appeal Court un-banned it), it remained on sale without restriction in all those other 30 countries.

I assume its still for sale in Portuguese and a few other languages, but not English or in the UK - seems publishers here are fearful of publishing it.

sharonl: That's correct

If the McCanns win I assume it won`t be able to be bought anywhere

sharonl: No, that's incorrect. The Portuguese libel court does not have jurisdiction over any other country.

and also any money GA has made from its sale will be confiscated by the McCanns. Not sure if I`m right here - so hopefully someone else will correct.

sharonl: Well, first the court has to find that something in Amaral's book has libelled the McCanns. If they succeed in that, the court will then have to assess (among other things) what compensation there should be. No doubt the court will take into account Angus McBride's reported answer that he couldn't quantify how much of the adverse media exposure and McCanns distress was caused by (a) losing their daughter (b) being made official suspects, and (c) Amaral's book. If the Court get to that point, that'll be a real conundrum for them. As regards point (a) the McCanns are willing to forgive the abductor. As regards point (c), they want Amaral to 'feel fear'.

by Woofer 13.09.13 23:48

Excellent answer Sharonl, thank you. I was pleased `seek truth` asked the question cos wasn`t too sure myself.

by aiyoyo 14.09.13 0:13

Inside the courtroom, she had avoided the gaze of Amaral,

In her book, she states "Im not scared of him"....... big grin

What happened? Did she forget to wear her diaper to Court and afraid she'll wet the Courtroom?

by aiyoyo 14.09.13 1:01

We are going to propose that the witnesses give their testimonies in written form so they do not have to return from Britain again, but it is not certain that this will be accepted by the court," a lawyer for the McCann family told AFP."

So they cant be arsed to return hey, not even for Madeleine!

But that's not what Kate said to the Press.
She announced she went there (Lisbon) doing it for Madeleine (she put it across as if it was an unavoidable chore), so we shall see whether Kate will stay throughout the proceeding.

by ShuBob 14.09.13 1:54

I don't get why so many court sessions have been scheduled for this case. How many days are needed to hear witnesses? I'm wondering if Isabel Duarte's strategy is to start off with emotional blackmail by lining up witnesses of the calibre the court has so far been subjected to before attempting to get to the point of the legal action i.e that Amaral's book contains lies. Surely, she's got to get to that at some point

by jeanmonroe 14.09.13 2:15

Don't know if this is right BUT it is said that McCanns want £1million from GA.
NOW, with their lamentable performances so far, the publicity that has been generated is i'd imagine priceless to GA.
Subsequently won't sales of his book increase?
So, if increased sales result in MORE money for GA ,the McCanns, by virtue of demanding a FIXED sum, won't be able to touch the 'new' money,
The irony being that GA could make much more money through sales of his freely, legitimately, available book than the McCanns have stipulated he pay them by virtue of publicity from this case.
It is the McCanns that are giving GA the oxygen of publicity!

Ironic isn't it? The book they want banned is the one they are shining a spotlight on and giving publicity to!
.
Is that about right?

ETA: Now that the trial has been suspended for now wouldn't it be a good idea if Dave 'Grabbit' Edgar went with all the witnessess to PDL and he could get them to search the lawless villages within 10kms of PDL?
After all there is enough of them in Portugal at the moment, isn't there?
I'm sure ID wouldn't mind giving up her weekend to muck in!
There are NINE 'witnessess' in Portugal so they should, between them, manage to put up a lot of posters in PDL, which KM and SH didn't do in May, and finally do some ACTUAL searching!!

by **tigger** 14.09.13 6:00

ShuBob wrote:I don't get why so many court sessions have been scheduled for this case. How many days are needed to hear witnesses? I'm wondering if Isabel Duarte's strategy is to start off with emotional blackmail by lining up witnesses of the calibre the court has so far been subjected to before attempting to get to the point of the legal action i.e that Amaral's book contains lies. Surely, she's got to get to that at some point

That seems to be a recurring tactic with the McCanns. Just think of the 125 or so points listed against TB. It doesn't make them popular with judges however and this one seems to want this over by Christmas.

I would think that all delays so far are due to TM represented by Duarte or asI think of her, the poison dwarf.
Gosh, Gerry and Kate and Duarte, an unlovely group of people if ever I saw one and that's without Philomena and brother John...

by Liz Eagles 14.09.13 6:37

Not sure if this has already been posted.

Blacksmith - Libel Diary Day Two

http://aninspectorcallsyou.blogspot.co.uk/

by Guest 14.09.13 6:55

f

aquila wrote:Not sure if this has already been posted.

Blacksmith - Libel Diary Day Two

http://aninspectorcallsyou.blogspot.co.uk/

thanks aquila
parapono

by **Jill Havern** 14.09.13 6:56

russiandoll wrote:I can't believe, given the background to this trial, that the child psychologist said this re the twins

"It's important for them to know that the world is safe and the parents will protect them."

oh the irony of that statement!

And oh the irony of this next statement from him too!

David Trickey - the psychologist who has been helping the McCanns' two other children, twins Sean and Amelie, since 2007 - told the court he was concerned that they would one day be able to read Amaral's book.

Is the child psychologist also concerned that the twins will read their mum's porn book one day, the book that was specially written for them that describes Maddie's private bits being torn apart, and that they will compare both books and will suss that one of them is lying? No wonder the McCann's want Amaral's book out of circulation as it contradicts the lies they've been telling their own children.

justthinking wrote:QUOTE "Mrs McCann said 'As they get older and they wander on the internet and other things, there will be more questions, but going by how things have panned out so far I think we will be alright, I think they'll handle it well.'"

by **Jill Havern** 14.09.13 7:11

jeanmonroe wrote:Don't know if this is right BUT it is said that McCanns want £1million from GA.
NOW, with their lamentable performances so far, the publicity that has been generated is i'd imagine priceless to GA.
Subsequently won't sales of his book increase?
So, if increased sales result in MORE money for GA ,the McCanns, by virtue of demanding a FIXED sum, won't be able to touch the 'new' money,
The irony being that GA could make much more money through sales of his freely, legitimately, available book than the McCanns have stipulated he pay them by virtue of publicity from this case.
It is the McCanns that are giving GA the oxygen of publicity!

Ironic isn't it? The book they want banned is the one they are shining a spotlight on and giving publicity to!

According to the stats on my blog http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/ people from all around the world were googling 'Goncalo Amaral' or 'Truth of the Lie' or 'Portuguese detective in Maddie case' etc - more than 19,000 people found the blog and read his book on the first day of the Trial and 22,543 on the second day. And, already today, the blog is still very busy.

by aiyoyo 14.09.13 7:19

ShuBob wrote:I don't get why so many court sessions have been scheduled for this case. How many days are needed to hear witnesses? I'm wondering if Isabel Duarte's strategy is to start off with emotional blackmail by lining up witnesses of the calibre the court has so far been subjected to before attempting to get to the point of the legal action i.e that Amaral's book contains lies. Surely, she's got to get to that at some point

The fact that so many witnesses had to be wheeled out, some of them hardly knowing the Mccanns, just to vouch on hearsay on the emotional impact the book had on Mccanns is sign of desperation. A sinking woman clutching at straw, even though changed tactic.

How can ID possibly prove that the book contains lies (which is the basis of the libel) when all she'd is again hearsay from the Mccanns that Madeleine was abducted.
What argument is she going to use to counter theory purported from investigation process ?

So she's to resort to using emotional aspects on how the book is damaging to the mccanns personality rights and right to peaceful life. For this, is another uphill struggle for her.

How can ID prove public opinion was not already turned against the Mccanns, PRIOR TO THE BOOK?
They were suspected of cover up and simulation of abduction back then, and were daily news item over National and International TV/Press viewed and read by many more millions.

Same goes to the documentary. Emma Loach's point that the Documetary high rating viewership poison public opinion against mccanns is self-defeating.
She, too, made a documentary for the Mccanns that was aired in Portugal and watched, but she did not provide figure for this.
No one knows from where the plucked the figure from anyway.
Besides, viewership figure is not the same as viewership rating. Even viewership rating cannot be used to gauge public opinion anyway.

by lj 14.09.13 7:32

About the psychologist:
It's not only irony, it is gd the same megalomaniacal arrogance as from the McCanns. Does he really think that we are too stupid and fall for that. I can't believe he stated that without having his fingers crossed on his back. If he believes this he should loose his license. The twins have much more to fear from Kate's book. You now the one she specially wrote for them. I forgot who it was, I believe Blacksmith, but I read it being described as a booklong suicide note. So true. Apart from having to wade, page by page, through their mothers psychiatric ramblings, they get it spelled out how their parents did NOT protect them. How they day after day, night after night put them in danger. How their parents defended that behaviour with arguments like "it was our vacation too".How, one day after Madeleine disappeared so you would expect the parents being extra protective, they had to be picked up from the creche by their parents themselves, oh horror, because no one else would do it, and that's just for starters. The danger is there, because it shows their real mother.

I have always believed that the parents would never face justice through the legal system, but that the twins, when they are a bit older, will deliver justice for Madeleine.They will come at an age they will search the internet, and they will as everyone else go through this phase were everything the parents say will be doubted. Then it will start: "mom, dad, why didn't you come when we were crying?". Dad what did you mean by "And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"
"So what were you working so hard on that you could not search?" "Why didn't you answer the questions, mom?" etc etc

I am really puzzled by the fact that the McCanns are always surrounded by idiots or frauds, or not really puzzled, I think that too a a very clear sign. But the level of unprofessionalism of these 2 days is shocking. It shows that none of them (OK Isabel Duarte aside) did any preparation for this. Did they really think that with their bluff they could talk those sardine munchers under the table? Amazing.

And if that psychologist really believes the world is safe it is time for him to grow up.

by Humanist 14.09.13 7:34

Many years ago I had a dream about this case.
In the dream I was struck by the Portuguese police and others who were handling the case.
They did everything in the most impeccable way.
Kate and Gerry were treated with extreme consideration and care.

Just a dream.

I have an intuition that Mr Amaral asked for a closed hearing as he has a wide web and would know
that Kate was left to be fed tot he wolves.
He knew that she battled to find witnesses and the witnesses she found were dismal crumbs left over from a bag
of cheap crisps made in China.
Everyone has abandoned her and over the years put the highlights of loose cannon behaviour on her.

I think Mr Amaral and the authorities are aware of exactly how many people are implicated in the cover up of death of a child
and are not going to allow one woman to fall and collapse the case.

I trust this is an act done with the highest consideration.

In the meantime as much as I want justice, I want justice for everyone who did everything to obstruct it.
Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Rebekka Brookes, Clarence Mitchell - the list goes on and on.

As I have always stated the arrest of one or both partners will not be Justice it will be yet another cover up of
the British Government.