Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

by Newintown 13.09.13 21:13

Ribisl wrote:
sweetex wrote:
tigger wrote:I expect the judge's problem is that he cannot accept written evidence from clan McCann. Would this not be a problem in the UK as well?
A bunch of people have registered as appearing in court, turned up and decided at the last minute that they'd rather leave a note for the judge. Consequently it would be difficult to cross examine them?
I could be wrong, but I understood that their lawyer suggested the notes/letters AFTER the case was suspended today. So they don't all have to fly back again to Portugal.
Isabel Duarte said that the hearing was suspended due to the judge's 'personal problem' whatever that means, and that the next trial sessions are scheduled for 19, 20 and September 27, continuing on 2 and 8 October and ending on 5 November.

We only have Isabel Duarte's word as to what happened. Is this the McCanns spin machine in operation again, things aren't looking too good for them so they state that they want to bring in more witnesses but only through written notes; therefore if it is not acceptable blame the Judge and the Court as it wasn't the fault of the McCanns (it never is!)

I doubt that any written evidence is acceptable in any Court (what if the Judge can't read the handwriting), I posted earlier regarding my time in a 2 year court case. Everything has to be typed up and signed by a legal representative some weeks before the trial and submitted to the Court so that it can be included in the legal file put before the Judge so that he/she can digest all of the evidence before the trial.

by Guest 13.09.13 21:20

A sad day, from more respects than one

Full compliments to Admin/mods, who must be exhausted

Signing of for now; nighty night!

by sallypelt 13.09.13 21:23

Newintown wrote:
Ribisl wrote:
sweetex wrote:
tigger wrote:I expect the judge's problem is that he cannot accept written evidence from clan McCann. Would this not be a problem in the UK as well?
A bunch of people have registered as appearing in court, turned up and decided at the last minute that they'd rather leave a note for the judge. Consequently it would be difficult to cross examine them?
I could be wrong, but I understood that their lawyer suggested the notes/letters AFTER the case was suspended today. So they don't all have to fly back again to Portugal.
Isabel Duarte said that the hearing was suspended due to the judge's 'personal problem' whatever that means, and that the next trial sessions are scheduled for 19, 20 and September 27, continuing on 2 and 8 October and ending on 5 November.
We only have Isabel Duarte's word as to what happened. Is this the McCanns spin machine in operation again, things aren't looking too good for them so they state that they want to bring in more witnesses but only through written notes; therefore if it is not acceptable blame the Judge and the Court as it wasn't the fault of the McCanns (it never is!)

I doubt that any written evidence is acceptable in any Court (what if the Judge can't read the handwriting), I posted earlier regarding my time in a 2 year court case. Everything has to be typed up and signed by a legal representative some weeks before the trial and submitted to the Court so that it can be included in the legal file put before the Judge so that he/she can digest all of the evidence before the trial.

Again, this is British Law, so I don't know if this extends to Portuguese law:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/evidence_admiting_evidence_under_the_cja/

by Woburn_exile 13.09.13 21:25

Ollie1 wrote:GM stated in his blog on 21 July 2008 that they had witnessed how their arguido status had had a detrimental effect on the search for Madeleine, now they blame GA. Of course we should remember that they want this money for their limited company, and if they don't "search" for Madeleine again what will happen to that money? Help make a few more mortgage payments perhaps or a nice family holiday, with plenty of tennis and jogging.

I've often wondered this arguido status. In almost every police service in the civilised world the last person to see the missing/dead person alive is automatically a prime suspect. How the hell can he say this is detrimental? Maybe a bit more suspect when his wife refuses to answer any questions and a bit of forensic evidence like cadaver dogs. shark

by maebee 13.09.13 21:29

Basically the reporter said David Trickey testimony was refuted by GA defense because he only met with the twins and the parents once and all other contacts were by phone.

The Mcs were scraping the barrel with their witnesses. Strange how not one of the T7 was prepared to go as witness for them.

by russiandoll 13.09.13 21:34

maebee wrote:
Basically the reporter said David Trickey testimony was refuted by GA defense because he only met with the twins and the parents once and all other contacts were by phone.
The Mcs were scraping the barrel with their witnesses. Strange how not one of the T7 was prepared to go as witness for them.

unless scheduled for one of the other dates, but I doubt any of them would go anywhere near a witness box. what a bunch of moral cowards they all are..

by Prehensile 13.09.13 21:37

maebee wrote:
Basically the reporter said David Trickey testimony was refuted by GA defense because he only met with the twins and the parents once and all other contacts were by phone.
The Mcs were scraping the barrel with their witnesses. Strange how not one of the T7 was prepared to go as witness for them.

Agreed regarding T7 as witnesses, add to that MW staff and of course the Mc's themselves.

by maebee 13.09.13 21:59

Prehensile wrote:
maebee wrote:
Basically the reporter said David Trickey testimony was refuted by GA defense because he only met with the twins and the parents once and all other contacts were by phone.
The Mcs were scraping the barrel with their witnesses. Strange how not one of the T7 was prepared to go as witness for them.
Agreed regarding T7 as witnesses, add to that MW staff and of course the Mc's themselves.

Indeed Prehen. KM left carrying the can. She doesn't have even one witness who was with her that week. Strange.

by plebgate 13.09.13 21:59

So the psychologist is afraid that the twins would read the book one day. Yeah, and,

In that case, will we be seeing him show the same concern that the twins will one day be able to read the police files on line. Will the Port police be sued because this might happen?

As for witnesses being allowed to leave written statements for the court. How can anybody cross exam a piece of paper? Ludicrous, ludicrous, imo.

Defence lawyer stands -
Now piece of paper what do you mean when you state so and so - no reply. Judge would you ask the witness to speak up please. ha ha ha ha bludy ha. big grin

by russiandoll 13.09.13 21:59

not confirmed but on from Justice forum : The judge wanted to start again at 2pm, the lawyers asked for more time to have lunch. She said 2:15 would be her last word.
What happened ? Everybody was in the court room, lawyers included, waiting for the judge, then a lady appeared and made this announcement.
curiouser and curiouser

by plebgate 13.09.13 22:04

How I wish Norris and Mary from Corrie Street were in that court room.

We would get to know every single word uttered. big grin

by Newintown 13.09.13 22:11

plebgate wrote:So the psychologist is afraid that the twins would read the book one day. Yeah, and,

In that case, will we be seeing him show the same concern that the twins will one day be able to read the police files on line. Will the Port police be sued because this might happen?

As for witnesses being allowed to leave written statements for the court. How can anybody cross exam a piece of paper? Ludicrous, ludicrous, imo.

Defence lawyer stands -
Now piece of paper what do you mean when you state so and so - no reply. Judge would you ask the witness to speak up please. ha ha ha ha bludy ha.

Is that before or after the McCanns are jailed for negligence and/or the part they played in the disappearance of Madeleine?

by russiandoll 13.09.13 22:13

If ID made an announcement to media, why was MBrunt not there to pick it up and report it? His silence since yesterday is very strange if it was just a procedural matter bringing things to a halt.
We are getting half a story here. Something is afoot imo but I can't think what.

by Guest 13.09.13 22:17

russiandoll wrote:If ID made an announcement to media, why was MBrunt not there to pick it up and report it? His silence since yesterday is very strange if it was just a procedural matter bringing things to a halt.
We are getting half a story here. Something is afoot imo but I can't think what.

I posted this earlier rd..................

UK Justice Forum ‏@Justice_forum 3m
@RealHumptyB @Rangeeni We enquired about Brunty and it seems he was sent elsewhere.

by **Tony Bennett** 13.09.13 22:17

sallypelt wrote:Again, this is British Law, so I don't know if this extends to Portuguese law:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/evidence_admiting_evidence_under_the_cja/

Sally Pelt, thank you for referring to these sections of law, but they don't quite address the issue of whether a judge (in the UK or Portugal) has the power to accept that witnesses only give their evidence in writing.

In general terms, a judge does not have such power, unless of course the defence accept that every word of a prosecution witness statement is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and the defence does not wish to put any questions to that witness.

The whole point of a trial is for the defence to test to the limit the evidence presented.

This can only be done by cross-examination in person of the actual witnesses. And from what little has been reported, it seems as though the defendants' defence team are asking some very good questions.

It is no doubt very inconvenient, and adding to the costs and time of the McCanns' witnesses, for this delay to occur - and this appears to be worse than at first thought if Isobel Duarte has been quoted correctly as saying there will be further hearings on two dates in October and even one on 5 November (four-and-a-half years after the libel writ was first served).

(Also, of course, the defendants' costs will rise if there are to be extra days hearings - a lawyer's fee for a day's presence in court is not cheap).

No doubt the McCanns' many UK and Portuguese lawyers and barristers and QCs etc. advised them fully about the risks and expenses of bringing such a difficult action in a foreign country.

Finally, just to answer the question of whether or not 'extra' witnesses can be called by either side if they have not already provided written statements to the court well in advance.

In general, they cannot. Certainly the prosecution is only in the most exceptional cases allowed to do so; a littlle more latitutde might be allowed to the defence, but both sides are expecteed to have their case ready for the start of the trrial.

Exceptionally, a judge can summon a witnesses. It happened in a High Court case I was involved in a long time ago. The judge ordered the Director of Social Services to attend court personally to explain why his department had handled a child care case so shambolically.

by Woofer 13.09.13 22:19

I`m wondering if Judge Maria whatsername can understand English - or perhaps they have interpreters in the Court.

There`s no point having any of the T7 as witnesses because they possibly weren`t as close to the McCanns around the time the book was published.

Martin Brunt didn`t report anything from the morning session which is odd and if the judge didn`t end proceedings until after lunch, why didn`t he at least tweet.

by marconi 13.09.13 22:20

A reliable source told me today that Amaral's book destroyed the twins some time before Kate got pregnant for the first time.

by russiandoll 13.09.13 22:21

candyfloss wrote:
russiandoll wrote:If ID made an announcement to media, why was MBrunt not there to pick it up and report it? His silence since yesterday is very strange if it was just a procedural matter bringing things to a halt.
We are getting half a story here. Something is afoot imo but I can't think what.
I posted this earlier rd..................

UK Justice Forum ‏@Justice_forum 3m
@RealHumptyB @Rangeeni We enquired about Brunty and it seems he was sent elsewhere.

thanks CF , did not see that... why though? Elsewhere in Portugal, when this going on and he was there yesterday? He did not know it would be suspended after lunch and there was zero from him on Sky this morning. Very very strange imo

by marconi 13.09.13 22:26

Woofer wrote:I`m wondering if Judge Maria whatsername can understand English - or perhaps they have interpreters in the Court.

There`s no point having any of the T7 as witnesses because they possibly weren`t as close to the McCanns around the time the book was published.

Martin Brunt didn`t report anything from the morning session which is odd and if the judge didn`t end proceedings until after lunch, why didn`t he at least tweet.

I believe that in official cases, it is obliged to have a translator recognized by law.

I understood that the McCanns and the Paynes continued being friends for a long time after they went back to England. And they live not far away from each other.

by **Tony Bennett** 13.09.13 22:28

candyfloss wrote:I posted this earlier rd...

UK Justice Forum ‏@Justice_forum 3m
@RealHumptyB @Rangeeni We enquired about Brunty and it seems he was sent elsewhere.

Then that would seem to indicate that there were NO British journalists present in court today.

Apart, that is, from UK Justice Forum

by plebgate 13.09.13 22:28

Where's Brunty? Could he be down at Ye Old Bottle Bank watching who puts what in where? big grin

by Woofer 13.09.13 22:31

marconi wrote:
Woofer wrote:I`m wondering if Judge Maria whatsername can understand English - or perhaps they have interpreters in the Court.

There`s no point having any of the T7 as witnesses because they possibly weren`t as close to the McCanns around the time the book was published.

Martin Brunt didn`t report anything from the morning session which is odd and if the judge didn`t end proceedings until after lunch, why didn`t he at least tweet.
I believe that in official cases, it is obliged to have a translator recognized by law.

I understood that the McCanns and the Paynes continued being friends for a long time after they went back to England. And they live not far away from each other.

Thanks Marconi. Perhaps they`re not so friendly now.

Still think its weird that Sky News (Murdoch`s) pulled Martin Brunt off the case - he must have left Thursday night/Friday morning. Who might not want the case reported?

Aren`t the McCanns matey with the Murdochs?

by russiandoll 13.09.13 22:32

I can't believe, given the background to this trial, that the child psychologist said this re the twins

"It's important for them to know that the world is safe and the parents will protect them."

oh the irony of that statement!

Possibly the judge got a migraine after hearing that and had to lie down in a dark room for a few hours..........

by Woofer 13.09.13 22:35

russiandoll wrote:I can't believe, given the background to this trial, that the child psychologist said this re the twins

"It's important for them to know that the world is safe and the parents will protect them."

oh the irony of that statement!

Possibly the judge got a migraine after hearing that and had to lie down in a dark room for a few hours..........

Remembering that this judge must have read GA`s book.

by Ribisl 13.09.13 22:41

Woofer wrote:
russiandoll wrote:I can't believe, given the background to this trial, that the child psychologist said this re the twins

"It's important for them to know that the world is safe and the parents will protect them."

oh the irony of that statement!

Possibly the judge got a migraine after hearing that and had to lie down in a dark room for a few hours..........
Remembering that this judge must have read GA`s book.

and the PJ files.