Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

plebgate wrote:As someone posted earlier in the thread - does Murat think the finger could be pointed at him again?
Even though it appears he hasn't been interviewed by SY, he may have been tipped off that it could be a possibility - therefore if he is to be then why not get them all over to Portugal and interview them all.
Did Murat contact the Express himself because he believes this might happen?

PeterMac wrote:The Express want their money back.

suzyjohnson wrote:Pershing, I think the McCanns are in a situation in that they will be under pressure from everyone else. How can they not act on what seems a good idea to raise awareness, or raise funds or ask for a review? What would people say then? I know they are often applauded for continuing to keep looking for Madeleine, but isn't that what every parent of a missing child does?

How can nine adults justify not taking part in a reconstruction if they really are concerned for the safety of a young girl?

Pershing36 wrote:

suzyjohnson wrote:Pershing, I think the McCanns are in a situation in that they will be under pressure from everyone else. How can they not act on what seems a good idea to raise awareness, or raise funds or ask for a review? What would people say then? I know they are often applauded for continuing to keep looking for Madeleine, but isn't that what every parent of a missing child does?

How can nine adults justify not taking part in a reconstruction if they really are concerned for the safety of a young girl?

The thing is I totally agree with what everyone says 90% of the time. I will quite happily leave this forum if my views on SY are upsetting anyone.

Legally the McCanns have walked over everyone that has got in their way, that is fact.

Whether we like it or not we are now a minority of people saying we don't buy the story fed to us. But unfortunately most people have just come to accept their version of events. They do not read or listen to anything different as the press are too scared. All they get is the same old day in day out. I bet a good amount of people don't even know the review is still ongoing, or really care what SY are up too. They just do not have enough knowledge on the case to smell a rat if it comes up with some nonsense result.

For this reason their will not be enough voices to challenge the result if it is a complete whitewash. If more people wanted the review to challenge what the McCann and T9 said then it would be another deal entirely.

suzyjohnson wrote:
How can nine adults justify not taking part in a reconstruction if they really are concerned for the safety of a young girl?

The couple believe a re-enactment will do “absolutely nothing” to help find their daughter, who was three when she vanished from the family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in May 2007.
Mr and Mrs McCann, who are arguidos or suspects in their daughter’s disappearance, had been asked by Portuguese police to return to the Algarve along with the seven friends on holiday with them at the time.
Detectives wanted to stage a reconstruction at the Ocean Club complex where the McCanns were dining, leaving Madeleine and her younger siblings in the unlocked apartment nearby.
But the couple, from Rothley in Leicestershire, have decided not to go back.
A source close to the McCanns said: “There are no plans for Kate and Gerry and their friends to return to Portugal. They have all indicated their intentions to the police.
“The reconstruction will only take place if Kate and Gerry and their friends agree to take part. If they don’t agree it will not happen.
“Kate and Gerry have had grave reservations about the value of it. If the reconstruction was going to help Madeleine, nothing in the world would stop them taking part.
“But Kate and Gerry and their friends cannot see the point of all the disruption it would cause to their busy work schedules and families if, as they believe, it will do absolutely nothing to help find Madeleine.”
The couple’s spokesman Clarence Mitchell said yesterday: “Kate and Gerry and their friends remain committed to doing anything to help find Madeleine.
“I don’t want to comment on what they have told police but, if they do not return to Portugal, it is because they feel it offers no value and no assistance in finding Madeleine.”
Mr Mitchell said that if the reconstruction was televised with the chance of bringing in new leads the McCanns and their friends would agree to do it.
He went on: “They would welcome a Crimewatch-style reconstruction which is properly broadcast for millions of people to see and could generate important new leads and fresh information.”
But Portuguese police said they did not want the reconstruction to be filmed.

I will do anything in my powers that could be helpful to shed light on what happened to Madeleine or bring Madeleine back, or to change the status that Kate and Gerry find themselves in. Though saying that, we have concerns regarding going back err for a re-enactment and those points that we have you know raised in a letter which I believe is being forwarded to the Portuguese Police. Err what we would like to see is you know some detailed answers to those points and we would also like to know that everyone else is taking part in the re-enactment because if everyone wasn't there then it doesn't seem that its particularly err worthwhile and obviously you know, problems with the press, you know, which would become very prominent the past twenty four hours, you know I think we would certainly want some reassurances err to you know, just, it'll address people to look at the letter that we all sent and if you're kind enough to answer those in detail then that is a, you know, an answer that we would make in light of what the response was to those points.

Reply “And likewise with the re-enactment, err it’s only what we’ve been told about, nothing official’s been err put to us at all. I don’t know really whether, whether a re-enactment would, unless it’s being televised.”

4078 “Mm.”
Reply “Would have any, whether it’ll have any effect on it at all. And I think it would also be quite distressing for Kate and Gerry to go through that.”

'Well I've made my feelings clear in a letter, erm, already. Erm, my feelings are, I would do absolutely anything if I felt it was going to help bring, find Madeleine or find who took her. Erm, my reservations are, at this point, how doing the re-enactment is going to achieve that or advance the search in any way. And, obviously, there is a lot of apprehensions about doing it, just in terms of the media and they way we've been treated, the way the media would react to us doing the re-enactment, how they'd sort of physically actually manage to do a re-enactment without massive media intrusion, erm, and how the information would be used, I mean, we all know that we're telling the truth of our actions on the night and if doing a re-enactment were going to be for the purpose of trying to find holes or, you know, in our movements and statements and try and rubbish our statements, then we know that's not going to help find Madeleine, because we know, we were there, and we know we're telling the truth, so I wouldn't be happy to do it if that was the reason for doing it. I'd just like to be convinced how it's going to move the investigation on really, erm, to find Madeleine'.

'And, at the moment really, we've got no reason to trust the motives of doing a re-enactment when Kate and Gerry are still aguido and, if they're aguido, I think we've all got to be implicated, because I just don't see how Kate and Gerry could have done anything that's been suggested without us all being in on it, you know, it's just impossible'.

'No, I mean, we haven't really had any, been given any information about how it's going to be used and that's the information that I think we would all need if we were going to do it and, obviously, there's no point one of us doing it without everybody doing it. So, I think, you know, as far as I'm concerned, I'd only do it if everybody else was doing it, otherwise it's pointless. And I still don't see, erm, I think, emotionally, it would be hideous to go back and have to do an re-enactment, I really do, and I don't see how, erm, emotions couldn't affect the way it was done, because it would just be horrific, I mean, imagine, you know, Jane having to relive that, Kate having relive that, any of us having to relive that, you, you couldn't do it without it being an emotional thing'.

Reply “Erm it’s hard, I mean I think in an ideal world I’d be on the plane tomorrow if I thought it would help erm find, find Madeleine but some great concerns about the media and the, how the media will react to it, how that it will view it, you know will it just be a, another chance to have a dig at us, rather than actually focussing, focussing it back onto the, finding out what happened, or where Madeleine is, so I think that is a big concern. Also it’s too late in the day, this should have been done, you know this was requested in the first couple of weeks we were there, this should have been done then, a year down the line, I would like to know exactly what hoping to gain for it because okay you might be able to see different escape routes that you think of but through you know DNA evidence or anything to back it up at this stage and it’s almost like and from totally personal level, the thought of going and sitting there and going through it, it’s just hideous, so I think I really need to understand that it has to be us that does it and why, I can understand that obviously we’re the best people to do it but you know, in terms of damage from a selfish point of view to us, other people from the media, psychologically whatever, I really need to know that there is really good reasons and that they really think there’s gonna be stuff comes out of it that can be used or you know what they are hoping to get out of it and it’s not, and if I’m being, going to my completely cynical side you know, is it, there’s not just a way to get us back to Portugal, so you know we, not that they can do whatever they want with us but you know getting us back to there so that they can slap an alguido status on us or you know, all of that sort of thing you know”.

Err and I think for, for us it was a question of (sighs) we'd do anything that would make a difference to this. If it was gonna be genuinely helpful then there'd be no question that we'd go and do it. There are a number of sort of practical issues in terms of you know childcare and would it be the seven or would it be the whole nine, I mean err you know to recreate the entire night. It would need to be Gerry and Kate, of course they are arguidos and they'd be feel, I'm sure they'd feel a bit more nervous about going back to do it once that was err whilst they would struggle under that and I think from our point of view we couldn't see, or from my point of view I can't see quite what extra would people get out of it given that we've already given the statements err and timeline and been questioned about that as much as we can remember it, so we'd basically just be following what we, what we said in terms of timing and we have concerns that it's not really gonna add anything and maybe that if you were to play devil's advocate and be very suspicious you might be saying it was just being done to create a problem and create inconsistencies. Now that might not be the case and there may be very good reasons that something else would come out of it but in terms of how it's gonna help find Madeleine I don't see yet why that would be a benefit, and its use such as whether not necessarily the Police sort of video but whether somebody sort of in all the apartments that overlooks it could be videoing it and releasing it in sort of an edited form or, or just in general because there's been moments when we've sat round a table going, did you sit there and looking at watches and it might look a bit sort of odd and we wouldn't want that to be out in the err out in the open without good err you know good a, a reason to think that it was going to beneficial.'

Reply "Yeah, I think that was more of the practical side that if it, if its being done now because of the weather conditions then what happens if it was, you know, stormy for a week, I mean it wouldn't be quite the same, it might be darker because the storm clouds would, would that then mean that we'd wait for a week or two, how open ended would it be err and also a bit of concern that this is a sensitive time, its going to be a year anniversary.'

Reply 'Yeah I mean we could be available but erm you know we've expressed our reservations about going to Portugal and about the reasons for doing a re-enactment, you know in a letter to Stuart PRIOR, erm I can't really see how you know, what the purpose of it would be nearly a year down the line, erm you know there are lots, you know there are the full details about our movements that night and what happened and you know, there's the time line that we prepared when we were out there which we thought was gonna be helpful for the PJ, erm and you know obviously since then there are all our statements and I know times might be slightly out and you know, but not, I don't, can't imagine they'd be sort of materially out, erm you know to make a huge difference, erm so I don't really see one why it needs to be done at all and two why it has to be us, erm I mean you know, asking us as a group to go back and do that when it was, you know it was such a, an horrific event and certainly you know to be sitting around that table again and sort of pretending to go back and check the rooms and it would be, it would just be awful and you know, I mean much more difficult you know for Kate and, and Jane, erm you know than me anyway, erm don't see why they can't do it with actors'.

Erm, you know, we have been crying out for, to, to have this opportunity for a long, long time. Erm, the trouble is, that the whole, the whole concept, even today, seems a little bit, you know, too little too late, I think that’s how, how it’s best described. Erm, you know, this is not, this is not a, well, at least, well from the point of view of Kate and Gerry and the rest of us, this is not a, a, a child manslaughter case or a child murder case, this is a child abduction case. But with everything that happened last Summer, so much has been, has sort of been lost, we have been exposed to, erm, a vast amount of, erm, bad press, intrusion of our privacy, erm, huh, over a, over an incessant, what feels like an almost incessant period of time, that has been to, you know, great detriment of our, of our own personal wellbeing, and that is clearly most true for Kate and Gerry, but also, you know, true to a lesser extent for the rest of us. Erm, we, you know, we had hoped that obviously invest, you know, this part, you know, the fact that we were back here now was the start, is potentially the start of, you know, more close lines of communication between the PJ, Kate and Gerry and the rest of us and I think that, you know, we, we completely welcome that and we think that a lot of, a lot of the problems that have arisen have been because there has been no lines of communication and the Press have just been able to, you know, play while the cat’s away really and so we have, you know, we were very pleased that this has, this has finally happened.

Personally I don’t feel as anti the re-enactment of some of, as some of the rest of the group and that is despite having perhaps some of the most, you know, some of the worst Press out of the, out of the lot of us, you know, I’ve, you know, I’m the male who was away from the room for the longest, you know, I didn’t ask for bed sheets and a whole range of other sort of associations with Exeter and Robert MURAT, you know, there’s, you know, I’ve got a lot more in many respects to, to be worried about travelling to Portugal. But, but, erm, I think that, we, as a group, and Kate and Gerry in particular, need some signal from, from the other side of this wall to say look this is, you know, this is a, this is a, we look at the investigation. I mean, we know that, you know, as a group, that that there is no evidence to convict Kate and Gerry, there never will be, we know that there is no evidence to convict any of the rest of us and there never will be, I mean, we, we don’t, we have no fear of that because we know what we know, erm, but we do have a great deal of fear for the privacy of our families, erm, the ability to go to work without Spanish news crews pissing around outside, you know, outside your window and, and a whole range of other things that have really turned, you know, turned on a personal level, a perfect life.

I had a perfect thirty-six years life and I have, you know, we have all had a shit year and I don’t, I don’t want it getting any worse, if anything, in the last couple of months it’s just slightly starting to get better. The British Press have been, you know, dealt a very heavy, you know, a very heavy blow and, you know, where it hurts, in their wallet, I mean, the only place which it will hurt and I think we are going to have to do the same to the Portuguese Press as well. Erm, but what we, huh, in my mind, to get, to get us out there happily and safely, we need some assurances and not more than, and more than what’s happened so far, you know, that, that this is looking at the investigation with open eyes. It’s felt like a, it’s felt like a one directional investigation, from a personal point of view, this was to nail it on Kate and Gerry or nail it one of us and that’s fine, that’s how it’s felt. I’m sure that is not the perception of all the Officers and the PJ and I’m sure that is, that is not the full picture, but that’s how it’s felt. Erm, you know, I’d like to say again that, you know, when we were out there the Officers that, that interviewed me, you know, everyone was perfectly professional, but the, the collective targets of the PJ appears to be Kate and Gerry with no other, with no other avenue. Huh, in terms of kind of a, you know, a conciliatory statement, I, I am very aware that when parties are at odds with each other, and in this, you know, I, I’m, it breaks my heart that this is the situation that we’re in, erm, is that we are, we are inevitably at odds with the PJ and the Portuguese Police. But when parties are at odds and they reach a, an impasse or a stalemate, which is where we are, and we know that, that no, no further action, or should we say no further legitimate action can be taken against any of us or Kate and Gerry in terms of Madeleine’s disappearance because there is no, we were are not involved, that Kate and Gerry need a way out for, you know, just for, for the pure humanity of it, erm, they cannot remain under the degree of pressure and uncertainty and suspicion that they are now, that is true to all, for all of us, you know, to a much, much lesser degree, I, I, I take that. And I am also conscious that the other side of this, the PJ have not had it easy either, you know, they’ve had a very high profile investigation where the International Press have given them a few, you know, bloodied noses along the way as well, and that’s, and that, and so there’s two, there’s two very, very wounded parties. We want to help out.

But we cannot fly into, erm, a hornets nest in Portugal and have our lives literally turned into further episodes of some shitty soap opera, you know, Jane has been portrayed as some kind of soap opera villain over in the Portuguese Press and the article I brought in this morning just illustrates that, I’m under, you know, a great deal of suspicion according to, you know, you know, unattibuted sources within the PJ. All of these are an enormous burden that I could never have imagined in, in all of my, you know, worst dreams that I could, you know, I’m saying I here, but clearly it’s the group, and Kate and Gerry are a lot worse, but that I could find myself under and, you know, I know Jane feels exactly the same. But, if, in some, in some way it could be made so that, even if this was before aguido status was removed from Kate and Gerry, which inevitably in the fullness of time it will be because it’s just not going to go anywhere short of a, of a, you know, of planted evidence, I mean, I am not suggesting that’s what is going to happen, but, you know, that’s the only way that that things will go further, but if the PJ can somehow, you know, bring their own National Press to order, erm, then it will appear that we are not actually just putting our whole livelihoods and privacy, you know, at jeopardy, but at the moment it just feels like it’s asking someone to walk to a cliff and say ‘Do you want to take your chances on the fall’. Erm, it is not because we don’t want to co-operate, I mean, we have come here, you know, I’ve come here for a second day, we would bust our gut if we thought if anything it would do that would actually help Madeleine. And, to be honest, if there wasn’t this pressure I think we’d go and do the re-enactment anyway because we could see no harm from it, the problem at the moment is we can see, we can perceive, and I think it is there, there is genuine harm to our, to our private lives, to our working lives, to the, you know, to even to, you know, our children who are just going to be, you know, they’re kind of plastered over papers and they’re on internet sites and, you know, that, any, our kind of lives are pulled over by sort of sick individuals who have got nothing better to do.

stillsloppingout wrote:I was sitting outside Preston Nick waiting for Nigel Evans MP to leave ,[ my pic of him in the car leaving ] and was having a chat to my old mate who was a snapper over at the time in PDL who i have mentioned before . The first thing i asked him was " Do you have any news old or new re the Mccann case? . He confirmed in his opinion that the payouts were a major stumbling block . But that that HIS involvement with Hacked off HAS hacked off the top brass in the media [ how can you support a guy in the press on one hand ,who is trying to destroy you [ the Press ] on the other ? ]

The same story is repeated today in the Daily Star. It should open up some lively debate , I have stated on other forums ONLY Murat can get this thing moving again , this is a subtle and deliberate act .

[ PS They are always in the same edition's as when i get a byline in ] today being no exception !!

stillsloppingout wrote:I was sitting outside Preston Nick waiting for Nigel Evans MP to leave ,[ my pic of him in the car leaving ] and was having a chat to my old mate who was a snapper over at the time in PDL who i have mentioned before . The first thing i asked him was " Do you have any news old or new re the Mccann case? . He confirmed in his opinion that the payouts were a major stumbling block . But that that HIS involvement with Hacked off HAS hacked off the top brass in the media [ how can you support a guy in the press on one hand ,who is trying to destroy you [ the Press ] on the other ? ]

The same story is repeated today in the Daily Star. It should open up some lively debate , I have stated on other forums ONLY Murat can get this thing moving again , this is a subtle and deliberate act .

[ PS They are always in the same edition's as when i get a byline in ] today being no exception !!

Woofer wrote:

stillsloppingout wrote:I was sitting outside Preston Nick waiting for Nigel Evans MP to leave ,[ my pic of him in the car leaving ] and was having a chat to my old mate who was a snapper over at the time in PDL who i have mentioned before . The first thing i asked him was " Do you have any news old or new re the Mccann case? . He confirmed in his opinion that the payouts were a major stumbling block . But that that HIS involvement with Hacked off HAS hacked off the top brass in the media [ how can you support a guy in the press on one hand ,who is trying to destroy you [ the Press ] on the other ? ]

The same story is repeated today in the Daily Star. It should open up some lively debate , I have stated on other forums ONLY Murat can get this thing moving again , this is a subtle and deliberate act .

[ PS They are always in the same edition's as when i get a byline in ] today being no exception !!

If you`re a snapper/journo, can you advise all your fellow journos to visit here.

So, it looks as if its just the fear of being Carter Rucked that`s keeping the press sweet towards the McCanns - some of us wondered if there was a super injunction.

Woofer wrote:It is NOT for them to have an opinion on it.

If they are told they have to do it, they do NOT have a choice fgs. The law is the law. You can`t merely say `Sorry officer, but I don`t agree with you`.

happychick wrote:

Talking about being Carter Rucked, who else has been CR'd besides TB and Amaral?

ShuBob wrote:

Woofer wrote:It is NOT for them to have an opinion on it.

If they are told they have to do it, they do NOT have a choice fgs. The law is the law. You can`t merely say `Sorry officer, but I don`t agree with you`.

The problem is that there's little to be gained by forcing them to do a reconstruction which they don't want to do. It'll be a complete waste of time. However, their refusal should count against them if the case ever goes to court IMO.

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It's interesting that the gross Encyclopedia Dramatica site still has a section on the case despite a letter dated 6th May 2010 (happy birthday!) from Carter-Ruck.

My guess as to the reason is that only those who have published information which is too close to the truth will have the pants sued off them.

I don't think that there's much chance of anyone taking ED's filthy rant seriously.

tiny wrote:

ShuBob wrote:

Woofer wrote:It is NOT for them to have an opinion on it.

If they are told they have to do it, they do NOT have a choice fgs. The law is the law. You can`t merely say `Sorry officer, but I don`t agree with you`.

The problem is that there's little to be gained by forcing them to do a reconstruction which they don't want to do. It'll be a complete waste of time. However, their refusal should count against them if the case ever goes to court IMO.

How will a reconstruction be a waste of time ?,if the mccanns and tapas go by their statements surely some one would see that an abduction was impossible.

Newintown wrote:Could it be that Jenny Murat has been approached by the Express to serialise her book, which is due for publication shortly, and this article from from Robert Murat is part of the book? Are the Express testing the waters before they go about serialising the book and opening a can of worms?

Only my thoughts of course, I could be way off the mark.