Re: McCanns Hire Car Contract

by Spaniel 10.02.13 20:45

jd wrote:
Spaniel wrote:Hope this isn't a diversion, but if you stole a wallet, would you remove the notes, but leave coins inside before reposting? No of course not! You'd throw them away. Why pay more for the weight?
The whole thing is nonsense anyway. A thief with a conscience who posts back to the victim? If they had a conscience, they wouldn't have stolen it in the first place. The likely place to find the wallet is inside a loo cistern, or bin.
Guess who did post it? Not well thought out though. Years ago I questioned on another forum the timeline between theft and return, but was ignored. I won't go over that again as it's obvious it doesn't work.
The Amsterdam friend, who was that I wonder? There is discussion elsewhere of NPD, and I can tell you from personal experience, they always over elaborate their lies.
I have no hope for the NSY review, as taking a look at the above should tell any Copper it's a lie. If they can't see it, it's a cover up. Coppers know thieves don't act that way. It is a complete nonsense.

We were discussing the wallet snatch in this topic

[url=https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5453-gerry-mccanns-credit-cards?highlight=credit+cards

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/quote[/url]] Sorry jd.

by Guest 10.02.13 20:57

tigger wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:
Dr What wrote:Quite
They and their friends have been very successful in telling tales, laying false trails, creating chaos, and changing stories to confuse those who were paid to investigate.They have also sought to provide an 'explanation' to any event that might find them out.And they have been very lucky, particularly with the lack of CCTV.
But I just don't think they reckoned on the PJ files being made available at all, being open to public analysis.As GA says, the answer is in the files.It is as if he is inviting us to find the answer, because he himself cannot tell us yet, even though the PJ know.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Neither did they think that
a) CSI dogs were going to be brought in. Although they said later they'd asked for the dogs. (Gerry had, as early as the 3rd he told someone that he'd expected the police to come with dogs but those were the only ones he'd asked for). They'd asked for the FBI (having an eye to patronage from the White House imo) but the PJ found it pointless and probably too expensive.
b) that those dogs were going to check the villa and their belongings and certainly they never expected the car to be checked as they could prove they hired it weeks later.

I wonder when they found out that the files were going to be published online. I'd have liked to be a fly on the wall. Gerry on his knees again, crying?

Please correct me if I'm wrong. So it is nit true that the Scenic was hired weeks later, as purportedly purported by the McCs?
Instead, it was hired immediately, with a hidden passport and a smelly DVLA?

Now, Tigger dear, why would anyone do that?

by jd 10.02.13 21:02

Spaniel wrote:
jd wrote:
Spaniel wrote:Hope this isn't a diversion, but if you stole a wallet, would you remove the notes, but leave coins inside before reposting? No of course not! You'd throw them away. Why pay more for the weight?
The whole thing is nonsense anyway. A thief with a conscience who posts back to the victim? If they had a conscience, they wouldn't have stolen it in the first place. The likely place to find the wallet is inside a loo cistern, or bin.
Guess who did post it? Not well thought out though. Years ago I questioned on another forum the timeline between theft and return, but was ignored. I won't go over that again as it's obvious it doesn't work.
The Amsterdam friend, who was that I wonder? There is discussion elsewhere of NPD, and I can tell you from personal experience, they always over elaborate their lies.
I have no hope for the NSY review, as taking a look at the above should tell any Copper it's a lie. If they can't see it, it's a cover up. Coppers know thieves don't act that way. It is a complete nonsense.

We were discussing the wallet snatch in this topic

[url=https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5453-gerry-mccanns-credit-cards?highlight=credit+cards
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/quote[/url]] Sorry jd.

Thats alright Spaniel. Was pointing you to this topic if you had anything to add your observations to what had been discussed on the wallet snatch. Its a whole big topic on itself!

by **tigger** 10.02.13 21:54

Portia wrote:
Please correct me if I'm wrong. So it is nit true that the Scenic was hired weeks later, as purportedly purported by the McCs?
Instead, it was hired immediately, with a hidden passport and a smelly DVLA?

Now, Tigger dear, why would anyone do that?
Unquote

As far as I know, the available information in this topic hasn't yet been sorted. We haven' t yet got all our ducks in a row so to speak.
So all I said in my post above was factual without further implications. For the moment at least.

by Lady-Heather 10.02.13 22:14

On the topic of car hires, let's not forget the Gorrods (alledgely mates of ROB & JT) who hired a car on 28/04/07 and managed to clock up over 800km before returning it on 06/05/07. IIRC the Gorrods arrived in Portugal on 28th, but 'went missing' for a few days only to turn up at the Ocean Club two days later. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by jd 10.02.13 22:34

Lady-Heather wrote:On the topic of car hires, let's not forget the Gorrods (alledgely mates of ROB & JT) who hired a car on 28/04/07 and managed to clock up over 800km before returning it on 06/05/07. IIRC the Gorrods arrived in Portugal on 28th, but 'went missing' for a few days only to turn up at the Ocean Club two days later. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yes they hired the car at the airport on the 28th April but did not turn up at OC until the 30th April, plus the issue with the extra child seat. I'd forgotten about the 800k mileage! I think James Gorrod was a surfer too and is a member of a club in the SW UK. There is a good topic on the Gorrods here

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by jd 10.02.13 22:52

Murat Car Hire period: 12th May 2007 - 15th May 2007.....A lot going on with murat during this period...The week to May 11th his ex wife was in regular contact with him and their daughter but the time over the car hire started she was unable to contact him.....his sudden need to hire a car "right now" as the mccanns needed his...The villa searched on May 14th....How on earth did he have the time to clock up 700k on the car!! This is looking a critical time period

The first indication that her ex had become a suspect came when Madeleine had been missing for just over a week. Dawn says: "I tried to ring Rob from the Friday to Sunday [11th May - 13th May], but couldn't get hold of him. I called his mobile and his mum's villa constantly."

Then on the following Monday, May 14, she was woken at 8am by two policewomen at her door. "They were brisk and businesslike. They said they were just checking some basic facts about who Robert was, who I was, how we knew each other and so on."
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At 07:00 on 14 May 2007, searches began at Casa Liliana, a villa owned by Jennifer Murat, a British citizen, near the apartment where Madeleine disappeared.[41] Police and scientific teams sealed off the house, and at 16:00 the swimming pool was drained

A factor in Murat being made a suspect was three members of the Tapas Seven, Rachael Oldfield, Russell O'Brien, and Fiona Payne, saying that they saw him in the Praia da Luz complex during the evening Madeleine disappeared

Robert Murat was given arguido (suspect) status on 15 May

It was reported on 16 May that two cars used by the Murats had been examined

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by Inspectorfrost 11.02.13 0:11

Its true JD, Murat was having a hard time, alot was going on,who wouldnt in their position, being framed like that by the British media, the Mccanns, their awful friends, their media goon, and other undesirable hangers on. Shameful lot hey?

by jd 11.02.13 0:34

Inspectorfrost wrote:Its true JD, Murat was having a hard time, alot was going on,who wouldnt in their position, being framed like that by the British media, the Mccanns, their awful friends, their media goon, and other undesirable hangers on. Shameful lot hey?

During which in a great hurry to hire a car

by Inspectorfrost 11.02.13 0:45

jd wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:Its true JD, Murat was having a hard time, alot was going on,who wouldnt in their position, being framed like that by the British media, the Mccanns, their awful friends, their media goon, and other undesirable hangers on. Shameful lot hey?

During which in a great hurry to hire a car

According to the British media and no one else, the very media and others who were busy blackening his name amongst OTHERS at the time

hardly a reliable source for anything dont you think?
lol!

by jd 11.02.13 0:56

Inspectorfrost wrote:
jd wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:Its true JD, Murat was having a hard time, alot was going on,who wouldnt in their position, being framed like that by the British media, the Mccanns, their awful friends, their media goon, and other undesirable hangers on. Shameful lot hey?

During which in a great hurry to hire a car

According to the British media and no one else, the very media and others who were busy blackening his name amongst OTHERS at the time

hardly a reliable source for anything dont you think?

And murat himself

lol!

by Inspectorfrost 11.02.13 1:05

jd wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:
jd wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:Its true JD, Murat was having a hard time, alot was going on,who wouldnt in their position, being framed like that by the British media, the Mccanns, their awful friends, their media goon, and other undesirable hangers on. Shameful lot hey?

During which in a great hurry to hire a car

According to the British media and no one else, the very media and others who were busy blackening his name amongst OTHERS at the time

hardly a reliable source for anything dont you think?

And murat himself

Youre better off starting a thread asking questions about how or why WHY Murat is a suspicious character, and possibly linked into Madeleine Mccanns disappearance

Otherwise people here will spend time and energy researching stuff on driving licences passports homes where dogs were interested and etc to no avail, its called focus facts and direction,better than confusion and all over the shop JMO
lol!

Who was it that said confusion is good, oh i remember, gerry mccann

by **tigger** 11.02.13 7:11

Inspectorfrost wrote:
Youre better off starting a thread asking questions about how or why WHY Murat is a suspicious character, and possibly linked into Madeleine Mccanns disappearance

Otherwise people here will spend time and energy researching stuff on driving licences passports homes where dogs were interested and etc to no avail, its called focus facts and direction,better than confusion and all over the shop JMO

Who was it that said confusion is good, oh i remember, gerry mccann
unquote

IF: You appear to have missed a large part of this thread. Most of the research has been done, no need for you to worry about 'other people' wasting time. Even less need to get personal again.
We have a number of facts, we are discussing these facts - this is known as ratiocination - deductive reasoning from premises.
(to save you having to look it up).

Quite a number of members (new and old) seem to manage fine, so don't you go worrying about it.

by Smokeandmirrors 11.02.13 7:27

Inspectorfrost wrote:
jd wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:
jd wrote:
Inspectorfrost wrote:Its true JD, Murat was having a hard time, alot was going on,who wouldnt in their position, being framed like that by the British media, the Mccanns, their awful friends, their media goon, and other undesirable hangers on. Shameful lot hey?

During which in a great hurry to hire a car

According to the British media and no one else, the very media and others who were busy blackening his name amongst OTHERS at the time

hardly a reliable source for anything dont you think?

And murat himself

Youre better off starting a thread asking questions about how or why WHY Murat is a suspicious character, and possibly linked into Madeleine Mccanns disappearance

Otherwise people here will spend time and energy researching stuff on driving licences passports homes where dogs were interested and etc to no avail, its called focus facts and direction,better than confusion and all over the shop JMO

Who was it that said confusion is good, oh i remember, gerry mccann

So this leads us back to the famous video clip of Gerry"s absolute discomfort and peculiar physical reaction to being asked if he knew Murat before their holiday to PdL to which he answered "I'm not going to comment on that". IMO, that weird reaction should be a key feature of the investigation.

That and David Payne's reaction to Yvonne Martin. Why did he wish to instantly dispatch an English speaking person with relevant skill at so crucial a time.

Those two things are IMHO extremely important.

by **tigger** 11.02.13 7:56

The Gorrod car hire too is interesting: these family holidays seem to involve a massive amount of mileage.

From: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hummingbird on Mon May 28, 2012 12:41 pm

candyfloss wrote:
In this report on Gorrod it says this re the flight booking...

Having gone to the counter of the Easyjet (Portway) airline in Faro airport it was confirmed that the
referenced person arrived in Faro on 28 JULY ??? [April] 2007 at 20h00 on the flight from Bristol,
being accompanied by Charlotte G. and according to the reservations also by a child whose
identity is not known because it is not recorded on the reservation.

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Again, I will say it is surely not possible for a flight to take off if there is an incorrect head count. The passenger list would have shown that the Gorrods had a child with them even if he was just under 2 at the time of flying and therefore sitting on his parents lap instead of actually having his own allocated seat. The Head Cabin Crew will refer to the passenger list count, do a head count and as long as this tallies with the list then all is clear and the doors can be closed. Often the head count is re done because children on laps get 'missed' in the counting. This is why you are left sitting on the runway having missed your slot to take off when people are late boarding the plane. It is illegal for a flight to take off without the checked in passengers or even to take off with someones baggage on board of they do not make the flight perhaps having been taken ill prior to departure etc.
( I know they will get round the baggage issue occasionally but that of headcounts is paramount)

As for the booking sheets in the above link 2 very strange things occur.

1. The address of the car booking does not match that of the flight booking, the car booking is an address for apartments in London the flight booking is a house in Exeter. (OK they may own 2 properties nothing weird there but surely one of the addresses has to tally with the driving licence)

2. The Gorrods mileage is rather high for a family holiday. It started at 23,105 and was returned at 23,979. That means during one week they travelled 874 km. It is 200 km approx from Faro to Luz return, therefore, if my maths are correct they clocked up a further 674 km in 5 days.

Obviously that is why their son (if he was there) didn't go to the creche - he was being taken on 100+ km journeys every day!!!

by Nina 11.02.13 9:30

tigger wrote:The Gorrod car hire too is interesting: these family holidays seem to involve a massive amount of mileage.

From: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hummingbird on Mon May 28, 2012 12:41 pm

candyfloss wrote:
In this report on Gorrod it says this re the flight booking...

Having gone to the counter of the Easyjet (Portway) airline in Faro airport it was confirmed that the
referenced person arrived in Faro on 28 JULY ??? [April] 2007 at 20h00 on the flight from Bristol,
being accompanied by Charlotte G. and according to the reservations also by a child whose
identity is not known because it is not recorded on the reservation.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Again, I will say it is surely not possible for a flight to take off if there is an incorrect head count. The passenger list would have shown that the Gorrods had a child with them even if he was just under 2 at the time of flying and therefore sitting on his parents lap instead of actually having his own allocated seat. The Head Cabin Crew will refer to the passenger list count, do a head count and as long as this tallies with the list then all is clear and the doors can be closed. Often the head count is re done because children on laps get 'missed' in the counting. This is why you are left sitting on the runway having missed your slot to take off when people are late boarding the plane. It is illegal for a flight to take off without the checked in passengers or even to take off with someones baggage on board of they do not make the flight perhaps having been taken ill prior to departure etc.
( I know they will get round the baggage issue occasionally but that of headcounts is paramount)

As for the booking sheets in the above link 2 very strange things occur.

1. The address of the car booking does not match that of the flight booking, the car booking is an address for apartments in London the flight booking is a house in Exeter. (OK they may own 2 properties nothing weird there but surely one of the addresses has to tally with the driving licence)

2. The Gorrods mileage is rather high for a family holiday. It started at 23,105 and was returned at 23,979. That means during one week they travelled 874 km. It is 200 km approx from Faro to Luz return, therefore, if my maths are correct they clocked up a further 674 km in 5 days.

Obviously that is why their son (if he was there) didn't go to the creche - he was being taken on 100+ km journeys every day!!!

Or a very few for 4 days and one longer journey on the 5th, or any permutation. Obviously not a beach and having family fun holiday with the little one, seems to be the norm with some families.

by Guest 11.02.13 10:23

@ Tigger

"Again, I will say it is surely not possible for a flight to take off if
there is an incorrect head count. The passenger list would have shown
that the Gorrods had a child with them even if he was just under 2 at
the time of flying and therefore sitting on his parents lap instead of
actually having his own allocated seat. The Head Cabin Crew will refer
to the passenger list count, do a head count and as long as this tallies
with the list then all is clear and the doors can be closed."

This is not completely true. As recently as last week a 12-year-old boy without ticket, boarding pass or passport boarded a plane at Brussels' airport Zaventem. He was only noticed when security staff saw the young one with his schoolbag hanging around for hours in the arrival hall of Malaga airport ...

You wonder why he did that? He had bad notes at school and didn't dare to face his parents [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by sami 11.02.13 10:52

If my memory is correct, the first 24 hours of the Gorrods arrival is missing, they arrived in Faro but did not reach PDL for some 24 hours later.

by **PeterMac** 11.02.13 11:39

And without a passport !

by **tigger** 11.02.13 12:01

@Chatelaine: I quoted Hummingbird so it's not my opinion, since I rarely fly anywhere, preferring lengthier but more humane journeys.
Personally, I would not expect Easyjet to be that exact with passenger numbers. Not giving out seat numbers doesn't help. It' s just a bus. Except less comfortable.

I posted this link because the lack of properly filled in forms and the 'lost' time before arriving in OC.

by jd 11.02.13 12:46

Inspectorfrost wrote:
Youre better off starting a thread asking questions about how or why WHY Murat is a suspicious character, and possibly linked into Madeleine Mccanns disappearance

Otherwise people here will spend time and energy researching stuff on driving licences passports homes where dogs were interested and etc to no avail, its called focus facts and direction,better than confusion and all over the shop JMO

Who was it that said confusion is good, oh i remember, gerry mccann

It may have have escaped your notice, but in their business transactions both gerry mccann and robert murat were using old addresses from years ago. To remind you, robert murat had "moved" to PDL with his ex wife in June 2005

To quote an old 'friend'.."dig dig dig" (and I don't mean the driveway)

by jd 11.02.13 13:25

saltnpepper wrote:The record of names & dates for the scenic...there is a big gap from 12th April-8th May,were these records withheld ?

10th March 2007 to 17th March 2007…DR Smith/S Halder

18th March 2007 to 25th March…GJThomson/JG Patterson

25 March 2007 to 1st April 2007….K Walkden

2nd April to 12th April 2007…..AR Lowes

...Missing April 12th to May 8th

8th May 2007 to 15th May….. John Brown & Michael Wright. Michael Wright an additional driver at same address as John Brown
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17 May 2007 to 22 May 2007….FAV Pereira
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23 May to 26 May 2007….E M Wittenberg
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27th May......the mccanns

by Ribisl 11.02.13 15:17

The missing data is very interesting indeed. But even if the McCanns had the use of the vehicle during that period, it seems unlikely that cadaverine was transferred to its boots during that period. There is no record of the subsequent occupants complaining about any foul smell, though when the McCanns got it later it was supposed to smell so bad they had to leave the boot open all night. It must have been very noticeable for them to concoct all kinds of excuses including dirty nappies and rotten meat.

by Guest 11.02.13 15:53

I cannot really remember what happened with the car after the McCs gave it back to the rental company. Have some recollection that Gerarthy [?] stored it for a while ... Anyone?

Also: I've been looking at the car reservation sheets this morning [but remember where anymore - having a blonde or grey moment?] and what caught my eye was that every form was displayed in the original AND several copies in different colours. Now, isn't it usual that such a set of forms is split between the client and the company for proof and for administration. It's also strange that they bear NO signatures ...

by southern_gal 11.02.13 16:11

Châtelaine wrote:I cannot really remember what happened with the car after the McCs gave it back to the rental company. Have some recollection that Gerarthy [?] stored it for a while ... Anyone?

Also: I've been looking at the car reservation sheets this morning [but remember where anymore - having a blonde or grey moment?] and what caught my eye was that every form was displayed in the original AND several copies in different colours. Now, isn't it usual that such a set of forms is split between the client and the company for proof and for administration. It's also strange that they bear NO signatures ...

Gerry and Kate left Portugal on the 9th of September but the car wasn't returned until the 23rd. I believe John Geraghty and John McCann were involved with the car after the 9th.

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