Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

[Guest]

I'm wondering how those in Portugal must be feeling today...I wonder if Joana Morais will post anything on her blog? She must be fuming and I doubt Goncalo and Sandra F feel great either.

I don't get it. The case is shelved now, no secrecy, so why can't some high ranking PJ person, come out and give a full and honest interview, of how they handled the case, all the work they did, and the conclusions they came to. Why are they allowing themselves to be shown as a bunch of incompetents. Too right they will be fuming. They need to get their side out there, but they never, ever seem to say anything.

[rainbow-fairy]

If this is off topic please remove. The following is a reader's comment on DM's article (link below) re Maddie Could Be Alive. My heart sank when I saw this little gem of a comment.

A few days after Maddie vanished I was in the pub with some friends and one of them suggested all children should be 'micro-chipped' with some sort of tracking device which could then be removed upon becoming an adult (to protect privacy and freedom etc). We all thought his idea was crazy, if not inhumane, and had a good laugh at the idea despite him describing how such devices exist and could easily be adapted to be put into children. I hadn't given that conversation any thought again until reading today's news on Maddie and (call me crazy!) I'm actually starting to wonder if it wouldn't be so bad after all? Even something to put into kids clothes/shoes would be better than nothing wouldn't it? We track cars, are they worth more than our kids? Maybe I'm just dreaming, maybe just frustration at stories like this but surely there's got to be more we can do to prevent this from happening?

- Paul, London, 25/4/2012 16:57

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Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134756/Maddie-alive--Scotland-Yard-team-reviewing-case-abandoned-Portuguese-195-leads-believe-finally-end-McCanns-torment.html#ixzz1t8jQc0aV

My heart has sunk too aquila. As a country, the sheeples are sleepwalking into disaster. I can't believe ANYONE would think this a good idea.
It is already compulsory for all horses born since 09, they bow bringing it in for all dogs. Human babies next!

I got an insurance quote online the other day. One of the questions was "Would you be willing to have your driving monitored by an electric box to lower your premium?' I ticked 'no' Had it been a person rather than a 'puter I wouldve said 'emphatically no!'
Big brother, Orwell, its all coming together...

[Miraflores]

This would be sold as a 'good thing' and no doubt some parents would fall for it. It would only be any use if a child wandered off and got lost, which the McCanns are adamant that Madeleine didn't do, so would have been no use in her case. I can't see how it would deter a paedophile - the first thing they would do is check for a chip and remove it!

[Guest]

David Cameron was 'pressured into new Madeleine McCann inquiry by News International'


The Prime Minister came under pressure from News International to set up the new inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, according to this evening’s BBC Panorama programme - ‘Madeleine: The Last Hope?’








In 2011 The Sun printed an open letter on their front page from The McCanns to David Cameron, appealing to him as a parent to agree to a review Photo: PA





12:41PM BST 25 Apr 2012




The Home Office has declined to explain why they chose to look again at the unsolved case above any other but a source at Number 10 has said that David Cameron “acted as a sympathetic parent.”


In 2011 The Sun printed an open letter on their front page from The McCanns to Mr Cameron, appealing to him as a parent to agree to a review.


But tonight Panorama will claim there was also much more going on behind the scenes to try to influence the Prime Minister.


Downing Street sources have revealed to the programme that influence was being exerted on Number 10 by News International and by The Sun newspaper, as well as by the McCanns.

Was David Cameron too close to News International?
Yes
No


VoteView Results
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Within 24 hours of the front page appeal Mr Cameron announced a review could be paid for out of a contingency fund run by the Home Office, reserved for special cases.

The review is already understood to have cost £2 million but the detective in charge is publicly optimistic.

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood believes his team has the best chance yet of finding out what happened to Madeleine.

He tells Panorama tonight: “As a detective, it is a huge privilege to have an opportunity to work on this case. Both my team and I feel that.”

BBC Panorama – Madeleine: The Last Hope? will be shown tonight at 7.30pm on BBC One.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9225991/David-Cameron-was-pressured-into-new-Madeleine-McCann-inquiry-by-News-International.html

[Lady-Heather]

My heart has sunk too aquila. As a country, the sheeples are sleepwalking into disaster. I can't believe ANYONE would think this a good idea.
It is already compulsory for all horses born since 09, they bow bringing it in for all dogs. Human babies next!

I got an insurance quote online the other day. One of the questions was "Would you be willing to have your driving monitored by an electric box to lower your premium?' I ticked 'no' Had it been a person rather than a 'puter I wouldve said 'emphatically no!'
Big brother, Orwell, its all coming together...

If you have a smartphone (iphone, android, windows phone etc) then this is already a reality. Your location and whereabouts are already tracked and your provider already knows more about where you are/where you've been than your spouse or family. Same with your internet activity, unless you take measures, every site you visit, frequency of visits, even your location are discoverable.

Sorry for wandering OT.

[monkey mind]

There is no doubt that this program was specifically designed to support the official line, ergo the McCann line and at the same time trash the PJ, who incidentally did a comprehensive job of investigation in my experience.

99% of people do not question what they hear on tv or read in the tabloids. The people who commissioned this program bank on that fact and care little about a few dissenters. The 99% will not read between the tightly spaced lines or embark on a project of research. Silly old PJ, poor old McCanns, what's on now?

It was such an obvious hatchet job that I have to seriously question the sanity of anyone who can see 'good' in it, they are either kidding themselves through blind optimism or worse, trying to kid others.

Worse still, one of it's central themes was that Maddie is still alive thereby extending the life of the money making machine/fund. Of course we'd all like her to be alive, but let's face it, there is no evidence to that effect, none at all. There is however, reasonable evidence from which we can infer the opposite. The McCanns allegedly want closure, the program wants closure, we all want closure but keep the £££ rolling in particularly when the latest edition of the book describing closure is released..

If any reasonable person, with half an open mind, sat down and devoted some time to reviewing the evidence objectively with a view to finding the truth, or coming close to it, they would come to a decision very similar though not necessarily identical, nonetheless very similar to the Portuguese police. Yet 37 allegedly esperienced detectives somehow seem to surface on the other side of the globe and break silence to take part in a program which, unable to trash the evidence if treated honestly, ignores it and resorts once again to trashing the personalities responsible for gathering that evidence.

It truly is a sad, sad day for British policing when it has so clearly been stripped of all integrity and its officers will sell their souls because they have become worthless.

It's a hatchet job. No mistake. A whitewash. For those interested in finding the truth as to what happened to this child, alarm bells should be ringing loud and clear. For the architects of this sorry drama, business as usual.....

[Liz Eagles]

There is no doubt that this program was specifically designed to support the official line, ergo the McCann line and at the same time trash the PJ, who incidentally did a comprehensive job of investigation in my experience.

99% of people do not question what they hear on tv or read in the tabloids. The people who commissioned this program bank on that fact and care little about a few dissenters. The 99% will not read between the tightly spaced lines or embark on a project of research. Silly old PJ, poor old McCanns, what's on now?

It was such an obvious hatchet job that I have to seriously question the sanity of anyone who can see 'good' in it, they are either kidding themselves through blind optimism or worse, trying to kid others.

Worse still, one of it's central themes was that Maddie is still alive thereby extending the life of the money making machine/fund. Of course we'd all like her to be alive, but let's face it, there is no evidence to that effect, none at all. There is however, reasonable evidence from which we can infer the opposite. The McCanns allegedly want closure, the program wants closure, we all want closure but keep the £££ rolling in particularly when the latest edition of the book describing closure is released..

If any reasonable person, with half an open mind, sat down and devoted some time to reviewing the evidence objectively with a view to finding the truth, or coming close to it, they would come to a decision very similar though not necessarily identical, nonetheless very similar to the Portuguese police. Yet 37 allegedly esperienced detectives somehow seem to surface on the other side of the globe and break silence to take part in a program which, unable to trash the evidence if treated honestly, ignores it and resorts once again to trashing the personalities responsible for gathering that evidence.

It truly is a sad, sad day for British policing when it has so clearly been stripped of all integrity and its officers will sell their souls because they have become worthless.

It's a hatchet job. No mistake. A whitewash. For those interested in finding the truth as to what happened to this child, alarm bells should be ringing loud and clear. For the architects of this sorry drama, business as usual.....

and what a lucrative business it is, not only in financial terms but a veritable politically useful tool for the media/government to volley with...my heart aches some days to see the tail is still wagging the dog.

Good post monkey mind.

[Guest]

Great post monkey mind

[Guest]

From Joana Morais

Panorama or McCannorama?



First piece is the article from BBC about Panorama



Followed by this note.............



Note that none of the recent futile and costly exercises paid by the Portuguese and English tax-payers or the previous costs supported by the public in the past four years would be needed if the McCann couple truly wished to see the process reopened by the Portuguese Public Ministry - that is the only authority that can decide if there is sufficient evidence to reopen an archived case - so the criminal police, the Portuguese Judiciary Police, can carry on with the investigation to Madeleine's disappearance.
The McCann couple or any of their 'Tapas' friends could have (and still can), since the process was archived in July 2008 pending better evidence, provide new data or information that would oblige the Public Ministry prosecutors to reopen Madeleine's process. They could, for example, re-enact the night of May 3, 2007 as requested by the Portuguese Police or one of the former arguidos could answer those 50 police questions officially, instead of re-writing a book defaming certain officers of that same police force and the Portuguese people.
It should also be recalled that this is not the first time that English authorities, specifically Scotland Yard, have cooperated in this case. Scotland Yard, NPIA, Leicestershire Police as well as other international police authorities worked in close cooperation with the Portuguese Judiciary Police in the initial investigations in 2007/2008, despite the several curious delays, political interferences and obstructions, and have apparently reached similar conclusions. In fact, and according to the former British Ambassador in Portugal, Alexander Ellis, it was the "English police that developed evidence against the McCann couple".
As to the former Home Secretary Alan Johnson blurbs on the police's work and the alleged role of MEP Ana Gomes as a 'producer' for Panorama, well, their actions speak for themselves. We all know that it was political interference and an unparalleled media circus (prompted in great part by the McCann couple PR's, like Clarence Mitchell) that 'killed' the initial investigation, perhaps politicians should refrain from making further factious or xenophobic comments and allow cops to do their job... At least when (and if) the case reopens.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/04/panorama-or-mccannorama.html?utm_source=BP_recent

[Guest]

Thursday, April 26th 2012

No Reason to Reopen McCann Case: Portugal


LISBON

Portuguese authorities have no new evidence that would give them cause to reopen an inquiry into the disappearance in 2007 of the British youngster Madeleine McCann, police said Thursday.

“There are no new elements at the moment that would allow for the reopening of the inquiry,” Pedro do Carmo, the deputy head of the criminal police department, said.

More details soon

http://twitter.com/#!/hiberniatimes



http://thehiberniatimes.com/2012/04/26/no-reason-to-reopen-mccann-case-portugal/19696

Hmmm, they have spoken to them today, and it looks as if they will not re-open. So that begs the question, they obviously aren't making too much of SY pronouncements, and their 198 new leads

[monkey mind]

Tuom asked:
" must look for some more information into the handle of the patio door .
Could MMC have reached it ? and had a tragic accident on the steps ?"

Answer:
If there was a fire yes. Even with a twin under each arm.
If for nothing more than curiosity. No.

[Guest]

Thursday, April 26th 2012

No Reason to Reopen McCann Case: Portugal


LISBON

Portuguese authorities have no new evidence that would give them cause to reopen an inquiry into the disappearance in 2007 of the British youngster Madeleine McCann, police said Thursday.

“There are no new elements at the moment that would allow for the reopening of the inquiry,” Pedro do Carmo, the deputy head of the criminal police department, said.

More details soon

http://twitter.com/#!/hiberniatimes



http://thehiberniatimes.com/2012/04/26/no-reason-to-reopen-mccann-case-portugal/19696

Hmmm, they have spoken to them today, and it looks as if they will not re-open. So that begs the question, they obviously aren't making too much of SY pronouncements, and their 198 new leads

And to add credence to this story above Sky have just tweeted this......



Michael [email=Greenfield‏@SkyGreenfield]Greenfield‏@SkyGreenfield[/email]



Portuguese police say they have NO new evidence to reopen inquiry into disappearance of #Maddie #McCann

[Spaniel]

From Digital Spy Forum.

Quote

"Ive always been suprised any abducter could strike with all the comings and goings of "visits" by members of group.

Scenario 1:
Abductor has to have prior knowledge of kids being there(and maybe being left alone),waits for group to leave.
Visit by first of group to check.(doesnt matter who): all is well.
Yet abductor isnt scared off.
Person who checked goes back to party-coast is clear,abductor does nothing. Why?
More visits by family/friends :all is well no stranger is sighted.

Abductor does nothing.Nor does he run off.Eventually he thinks ok ill snatch her ,theres a chance a "checker" will come along even so. Doesnt make sense." End Quote.

Agree and it would make far more sense if Madeleine had been taken as soon as the parents left for the Tapas.

[ufercoffy]

Portuguese police say they have NO new evidence to reopen inquiry into disappearance of #Maddie #McCann

This is mind-numbingly boring now and it's just going round and round in circles. The McCanns have publicly stated that they will be happy for the process to be reopened so now is the time for them to invest in a first class stamp and write to the Portuguese prosecutor to ask them to reopen the process and STOP wasting taxpayers money. The McCanns have got millions of pounds of donated money so they can even show their willingness to have the process reopened by offering their donations to the PJ. That's what the donations are for - to search! Well let the PJ do it McCanns! Buy a first class stamp and do it NOW!

[Woofer]

Excellent posts by Rainbow Fairy and Monkey Mind.

At around 19.00 mins in the programme, after Alan Johnson`s twittering, Bilton does make a relevent point about `why is MM so special, why all this money and political involvement after 5yrs, why her above all else???`

Maybe Sandra`s words influenced him - she said as much and added it was strange.

[Guest]

Thursday, April 26th 2012

No Reason to Reopen McCann Case: Portugal


LISBON

Portuguese authorities have no new evidence that would give them cause to reopen an inquiry into the disappearance in 2007 of the British youngster Madeleine McCann, police said Thursday.

“There are no new elements at the moment that would allow for the reopening of the inquiry,” Pedro do Carmo, the deputy head of the criminal police department, said.

More details soon

http://twitter.com/#!/hiberniatimes



http://thehiberniatimes.com/2012/04/26/no-reason-to-reopen-mccann-case-portugal/19696

Hmmm, they have spoken to them today, and it looks as if they will not re-open. So that begs the question, they obviously aren't making too much of SY pronouncements, and their 198 new leads

And to add credence to this story above Sky have just tweeted this......



Michael [email=Greenfield‏@SkyGreenfield]Greenfield‏@SkyGreenfield[/email]



Portuguese police say they have NO new evidence to reopen inquiry into disappearance of #Maddie #McCann

That's the nub of it. Those good old Brit cops have uncovered all these new leads, but the bad, bad Portuguese won't re-open the case. Case still shelved, but we here are told that there was an abductor and Madeleine may still be alive. Everything as before, fund continues, stories continue, but with a subtle difference, there is definitely now an abductor. End of.

[tigger]

SY is employing 35 + people on extra money. What's not to like?

Seeing that they've only gone through 25% of the available material, that leaves another three years at about 2 million each.

I do think that the least the mcCanns can do, is to give each of these people a cuddle cat - as they did with Metodo3 - impressing on M3 that if they needed to feel motivated to squeeze cuddle cat.

I read that recently in an old file here. Now 40 cuddle cats, of a toy that was allegedly bought in 2003 - and it was still available - and before end May Cuddlecat.co.uk was registered as a domain name. Hmm. But Metodo started work end of September, so cuddle cats in reserve?

I digress, I'm having visions of DCI Redwood, squeezing a cuddle cat whilst he's telling us that Maddie is possibly alive or possibly not alive.

[Guest]

Joana Morais now tweeting


Joana Morais‏@xklamationReply

Again the Portuguese Public Ministry states that there isn't sufficient and credible new evidence to reopen the process. #mccann #news




4m Joana Morais‏@xklamation

No request was made to the Portuguese Public Ministry [Attorney General's Office] to reopen the Madeleine's archived process #Mccann #news

[Woofer]

Joana Morais is correct - IMO Redwood and Panorama were clearly blaming the PJ for mistakes that the UK agencies and media interference caused (all brought in at the behest of the McCanns). How dare they totally disrupt the PJ investigation in the initial stages and then have the gaul to blame the PJ.

[Guest]

Now the Telegraph carrying the story. It's almost orchestrated all this isn't it, one day all these revelations the next day, completey denied..............


Madeleine McCann: Portuguese police refuse to reopen case saying there is no new evidence

Portuguese police have refused to reopen the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann saying there is no new evidence


Detectives released as a new age progression image of Madeleine McCann after saying it was possible she is still alive Photo: Teri Blythe


8:51AM BST 26 Apr 2012


Yesterday the Met Police said the youngster could still be alive and released a new “age progression” image of the toddler, which they said showed what she would look like today at the age of nine.


They asked the Portugese Police to reopen the case saying they had identified nearly 200 new items for investigation within historic material and believed they had found new evidence.

But today police in Portugal regused the request.

"There are no new elements at the moment that would allow for the reopening of the inquiry," Pedro do Carmo, the deputy head of the criminal police department, told AFP.

It came just hours after her parents said they were ''hugely encouraged'' by the momentum in the case.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9228670/Madeleine-McCann-Portuguese-police-refuse-to-reopen-case-saying-there-is-no-new-evidence.html

[russiandoll]

Clarence M was on tv this morning stating clearly that the 195 leads ref by SY are HISTORIC, ALREADY IN THE FILES BUT THERE IS SOME NEW INFO

does this confirm Bilton's " fresh leads" from panorama......there in the files but not followed up..or as being spun in some media, that SY have developped them in the course of their review?

[Guest]

martinbrunt‏@skymartinbruntReply


#McCann Portuguese judiciary say no justification for reopening investigation into disappearance of Madeleine McCann


Hehe perhaps they should get News International to lobby them

[Guest]

Joana Morais‏@xklamationReply


The #McCann couple or their Tapas friends could force the reopening of the process if, ex., they would do the reconstruction #opinion #law

[russiandoll]

"Dogs detecting DNA" had so obviously been through a lawyer's washing machine.

well there would be DNA wouldn't there, if Maddie had been in 5a...that really angered me as well......however, at least the context of the DNA comment was about the pair being made arguidos, therefore anyone with a bit of nous should have been able to work out without the accurate ref to blood and cadaver odour.that the dogs found something suspicious.

[Miraflores]

Now the Telegraph carrying the story. It's almost orchestrated all this isn't it, one day all these revelations the next day, completey denied..............




"There are no new elements at the moment that would allow for the reopening of the inquiry," Pedro do Carmo, the deputy head of the criminal police department, told AFP.

It came just hours after her parents said they were ''hugely encouraged'' by the momentum in the case.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9228670/Madeleine-McCann-Portuguese-police-refuse-to-reopen-case-saying-there-is-no-new-evidence.html

Forgive the cynicism - it sounds like a win-win for Team McCann - oodles of sympathy in the UK, but no nasty Johnny Foreigner police re-opening the case and asking some awkward questions which might put some of them behind bars.