Trip to Huelva

Question;was the phone call on the ribeira? vascao made on the 2nd may or 12 of may.

all a bit confusing to me!

Badboys.

Here: "Paulo Dias of the PJ where it is confirmed that Kate received, on the 2nd of May, at around 11h21, a call from Swansea (UK)"

and

"According to the records now known, the mobile phone was used near the Ribeira do Vascão on several occasions, namely between the days 12th and 15th of May, 2007 but equally in June and July of the same year. Those phone calls were always made to England or to Praia da Luz, except for one, which was made to the British embassy in Lisbon."

As regards the papers found I have seen then I think on "mccannfiles.com." But it was a long time ago.

ETA I seem to remember that the McCanns arranged a haulage company for the removal of files etc.

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McCann Case: Analysis of the phone calls reveals a clue, 16 December 2008


McCann Case: Analysis of the phone calls reveals a clue SOSMaddie

Duarte Levy
16 December 2008
Thanks to 'AnnaEsse' for translation

Justine McGuinness and the Vascão river

Justine McGuiness, spokesperson for the McCanns who accompanied them in fleeing to England immediately after they were made arguidos, left various documents in the apartment that served as the couple's headquarters, including photographs, establishing a possible connection between Madeleine's disappearance and the banks of the river Vascão, near the Spanish border. Today, 19 months after Madeleine's disappearance, the trail left by Justine McGuiness resurfaces.

This picture is to give an indication of the general area, rather than define a specific spot

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It is September 9th 2007, the day that Kate and Gerry take flight to England, four months after Madeleine McCann's disappearance that the PJ get their hands on a series of documents left in the Vista Mar villa, until then occupied by the couple, where photographs and even a sketch are found, indicating the detailed location of a place on the border between Alentejo and the Algarve, 20 km from Almodovar, crossed by the Vascão river. The PJ inspectors went into the house immediately after the McCanns left for the airport, thus taking advantage of the fact that the journalists were accompanying the couple.

The documents left there by the McCanns' spokesperson, Justine McGuiness, were found under a sofa. In addition to the identification of a clearly defined geographic area, were numerous inscriptions which the PJ have never succeeded in interpreting. According to sources close to the investigation, nothing was done in this direction and the PJ employees who allegedly regarded the documents as being the work of an esoteric group, did not even take the trouble to visit the place indicated, considering the lead as being of no value to the case.

The McCanns' spokesperson, who was with them throughout the time when they were constituted arguidos under Portuguese law, ended up being dismissed on her arrival in England, this in spite of the fact that she might prove to be one of the most embarrassing witnesses for the couple and the English authorities. The fact is that Justine McGuiness has never been questioned by the PJ and thus it is that the exact significance of the documents and photographs has never been explained.

Ribeira do Vascão satellite picture (click to enlarge)

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Thanks to Joana Morais / wikimapia for satellite image above

In statements recorded recently in London, sources close to the former Liberal Party candidate and specialist in public relations, confirmed that Justine McGuiness was even allegedly the target of various pressures, notably in the legal field, meaning, for her, that she should keep quiet about everything she saw and heard during the time she worked for Kate and Gerry McCann.

What is certain is that the former spokesperson and her employers, the McCanns, were already at odds, particularly with Kate, on the day they left Portugal together and their "divorce" on arrival in England did not surprise anyone. Justine had always directed very harsh criticism towards Madeleine's mother, sometimes in the presence of journalists. And the poor relations between the two women were not limited to financial matters, on which Justine always demanded settlement for her work and for numerous extra hours spent with the couple, but also in meetings and dinners with journalists and representatives of the British authorities.

Today, all this might have been forgotten if it were not for the results of an investigation into records of the McCanns' telephone calls and of all the people who were in contact with them, an investigation led by journalists, in collaboration with former operatives of the information services.

Swansea again (this section translated by Joana Morais)

While investigating the calls received and made on the McCann's mobile phones during their stay in Portugal, the investigators found a report from inspector Paulo Dias of the PJ where it is confirmed that Kate received, on the 2nd of May, at around 11h21, a call from Swansea (UK) which, later, she would justify to the PJ as being a mistake. A sufficiently important "mistake" that Madeleine's mother guarded the register of this call in her mobile, in spite of having deleted all the details of other communications.

More interesting, the investigators - some Britons, used to dealing with sensitive cases - also found the register of a phone call made on the same day, after lunch, between a mobile phone in Praia da Luz and the same number in Swansea that had contacted Kate McCann. The mobile from which the call was made does not belong to either of the McCanns or to the group of friends who were accompanying them and, up to today, the Judiciary Police, despite several requests to the English authorities, has never been able to identify the owner of that mobile nor have they obtained from the English support or willingness so that they can question whomever it was regarding these calls.

Now, while cross-referencing the results obtained next to the mobile telecommunication operators in Portugal and in Spain with the reports of the Judiciary Police - in particular the excellent work of the inspector Paulo Dias - investigators and journalists found a new element worthy of interest: the mobile phone used in Praia da Luz to call the number in Swansea, who had contacted Kate on May 2, was used to make and receive calls in the area indicated in the documents and in the photographs that the McCann's spokeswoman left under the sofa on the day of the return to England.

According to the records now known, the mobile phone was used near the Ribeira do Vascão on several occasions, namely between the days 12th and 15th of May, 2007 but equally in June and July of the same year. Those phone calls were always made to England or to Praia da Luz, except for one, which was made to the British embassy in Lisbon

How did they know that Justine McGuiness left the papers? Were they with other stuff that was clearly hers?

That area is a prime area to loose a body imo and should have been searched when the papers were found.

Is that a photo of "lawless hinterland" ?

PeterMac wrote:Is that a photo of "lawless hinterland" ?

If you blow it up, you'll be able to see the hide-outs of the paedophiles - although wait! There is no law against paedophilia in Portugal, so why do these people need to hide out in the lawless hinterland? Should we drop leaflets to tell them?

Smokeandmirrors wrote:Wonder if those documents were left accidentally on purpose?

I think there is a very good chance this is so. What are the options?

1.It is a red herring.

2. These documents were of importance to the McCanns but during their cowardly flight they forgot to retrieve them.

3. They were left either deliberately or accidentally by McGuiness.

Although we are not in possession of all the facts, the author of the article seems fairly certain that these items were left by Justine, if this is so then we can rule out 2 above and probably 1 also. Perhaps Justine was one of the very few people in this case with a modicum of integrity, maybe it was an insurance policy who knows? What we can be sure of is that these items were left hidden, but not so well hidden as to render their discovery unlikely, no, they were bound to be found and the very fact they were hidden should point one's attention to them. When one considers other facts this makes these documents highly significant imho. Why, when having removed all traces of communication from her mobile phone does K retain a Swansea number that is allegedly a wrong number? Well, if like me you don't believe in coincidences like this one there seems only one reasonable answer. She didn't have that number in her address book or want it logged there so she retained a record of the call for future access if needed. In other words it was an important number. Then we have the mystery mobile phone that contacts the same Swansea number, from PdL, that is being used in this area the entire time that the McCanns are out there, that phones England regularly, that phoned the British embassy, that made a number of calls in May, June and July from the area indicated in the documents left by Justine McGuinness, and, a number which the British police have failed to furnish the Portuguese police with! There are too many coincidences for one person to handle here don't you think??

I am wondering about Swansea, has this come up anywhere else? Like anyone we know of with a significance come from there? I know there is a fair bit of government stuff there.

Good point Pershing. Here's a link to a list of government agencies in Swansea: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

CPS right at the top of the list! Was it a govt agency number, or do we just know it was a Swansea area code?

Just a coindidence I came across, the owners of the Burgau apartment are from Cardiff which is just down the road from Swansea.

TrollAng wrote:Just a coindidence I came across, the owners of the Burgau apartment are from Cardiff which is just down the road from Swansea.

Hi, Cardiff is actually 34 miles from Swansea. It's not like dining in your garden going from one to the other! The dvla is in Swansea and there are a number of hospitals with special units such as opthamology etc.the two places have different telephone codes. Swansea numbers are distinct from cardiff numbers.

Be bloody ironic though wouldn't it, they are at the Riberia possibly up to no good and they get a call from the CPS in Swansea.

I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to revive this topic in view of  the fact that presumably the car they used had a tracking device on it. This is what I suppose as imo the car was impounded - does anyone know the date the dogs alerted to the car? -

Now it does seem to me that the car would be with forensics for some time. It  is likely they had another car with the same number plates returned?  I have read this quite some time ago.

The Huelva trip was right after the house and car inspection. We don't seem to have taken the timing I to account?
Imo not likely  the car which the dogs singled out could be returned so quickly  -  it would also mean returning evidential material to probable suspects.

tigger wrote:I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to revive this topic in view of  the fact that presumably the car they used had a tracking device on it. This is what I suppose as imo  the car was impounded - does anyone know the date the dogs alerted to the car? -

Now it does seem to me that the car would be with forensics for some time. It  is likely they had another car with the same number plates returned?  I have read this quite some time ago.

The Huelva trip was right after the house and car inspection. We don't seem to have taken the timing I to account?
Imo not likely  the car which the dogs singled out could be returned so quickly  -  it would also mean returning evidential material to probable suspects.

Hi tigger, it was the 6th August that the dogs alerted to the MC'S car.

From the Mccannfiles it states that Gerry had written in his blog, dated the 6th August, that' he went to a large office store in Portimao to buy a new printer and ink'- a journey that would have to be undertaken by car. But how did he get there and back?

Just to note, also in the files is says that on the 2nd August Gerry cancels his trip to Huelva due to a 'viral illness'. At around 18.00 pm the inspectors knock on the door of the McCann's villa, Jon Corner states in the Panorama documentary that the McCann's were forewarned of this forensic visit and that there were clothes in the washing machine when the inspectors arrived.

Hicks wrote:

tigger wrote:I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to revive this topic in view of  the fact that presumably the car they used had a tracking device on it. This is what I suppose as imo  the car was impounded - does anyone know the date the dogs alerted to the car? -

Now it does seem to me that the car would be with forensics for some time. It  is likely they had another car with the same number plates returned?  I have read this quite some time ago.

The Huelva trip was right after the house and car inspection. We don't seem to have taken the timing I to account?
Imo not likely  the car which the dogs singled out could be returned so quickly  -  it would also mean returning evidential material to probable suspects.

Hi tigger, it was the 6th August that the dogs alerted to the MC'S car.

From the Mccannfiles it states that Gerry had written in his blog, dated the 6th August, that' he went to a large office store in Portimao to buy a new printer and ink'- a journey that would have to be undertaken by car. But how did he get there and back?

Just to note, also in the files is says that on the 2nd August Gerry cancels his trip to Huelva due to a 'viral illness'. At around 18.00 pm the inspectors knock on the door of the McCann's villa, Jon Corner states in the Panorama documentary that the McCann's were forewarned of this forensic visit and that there were clothes in the washing machine when the inspectors arrived.

Thanks for that, clears  date,  but as you can see from his topic, Amaral noted that their route was not in accordance with  straightforward trip there ac back. So they must have been tracked, possibly satellite, but I'd think a GPS device - a bug.

It does mean that they drove to Huelva in a smelly car. Hmm.

 I think the Camerons had hired their own car they were around for some time.

tigger wrote:

Hicks wrote:

tigger wrote:I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to revive this topic in view of  the fact that presumably the car they used had a tracking device on it. This is what I suppose as imo  the car was impounded - does anyone know the date the dogs alerted to the car? -

Now it does seem to me that the car would be with forensics for some time. It  is likely they had another car with the same number plates returned?  I have read this quite some time ago.

The Huelva trip was right after the house and car inspection. We don't seem to have taken the timing I to account?
Imo not likely  the car which the dogs singled out could be returned so quickly  -  it would also mean returning evidential material to probable suspects.

Hi tigger, it was the 6th August that the dogs alerted to the MC'S car.

From the Mccannfiles it states that Gerry had written in his blog, dated the 6th August, that' he went to a large office store in Portimao to buy a new printer and ink'- a journey that would have to be undertaken by car. But how did he get there and back?

Just to note, also in the files is says that on the 2nd August Gerry cancels his trip to Huelva due to a 'viral illness'. At around 18.00 pm the inspectors knock on the door of the McCann's villa, Jon Corner states in the Panorama documentary that the McCann's were forewarned of this forensic visit and that there were clothes in the washing machine when the inspectors arrived.

Thanks for that, clears  date,  but as you can see from his topic, Amaral noted that their route was not in accordance with  straightforward trip there ac back. So they must have been tracked, possibly satellite, but I'd think a GPS device - a bug.

It does mean that they drove to Huelva in a smelly car. Hmm.

 I think the Camerons had hired their own car they were around for some time.

I have just read that 'the PJ has already collected video surveillance images in locations that make no sense
where the Renault scenic may have been through'.

Something that still puzzles me [no offense meant] is that a "male" can describe a Scenic as an Espace ...

Châtelaine wrote:Something that still puzzles me [no offense meant] is that a "male" can describe a Scenic as an Espace ...

Most men can tell you the model of a car in my experience. Women aren't bad at it either.

Good point Chatelaine.

Bump for any new members.

Thanks candyfloss.  I think Huevla was a red herring as suggested by the OP.

aquila wrote:

Châtelaine wrote:Something that still puzzles me [no offense meant] is that a "male" can describe a Scenic as an Espace ...

Most men can tell you the model of a car in my experience. Women aren't bad at it either.

Good point Chatelaine.

I am an expert when it comes to describing cars. When asked what car it was, I say it's a blue one or a green one etc. The difficulty begins when the car is between colours, such as blue and green  

Funny moment over:flag: 

During a course at Bramshill one of our group came back after coffee and told the instructor he had to return home.
The instructor naturally asked if everything was well at home, hoped there was no family illness etc.
The officer replied that he had just phoned his wife, and she had told him she had bought a new car.
He had asked what sort.
She had replied "A Blue one"
There was general agreement that he should be released immediately and return home !

Châtelaine wrote:Something that still puzzles me [no offense meant] is that a "male" can describe a Scenic as an Espace ...

No way could I LOL

This is such an interesting thread it astounds me how many switched on Poster there are - were any conclusions reached?