Re: Trip to Huelva

by ProfessorPPlum 31.10.13 0:20

We've done this 'latex' gloves thing to death a long time ago. I came down firmly on the side of 'no gloves'. I have a lifetime's experience working with images and some of the ill-informed arguments about photoshopped last photos etc and bodies in Rocha Negra (anyone who deals with @oddityfinder on Twitter will know what I'm talking about) were frankly stupid and counterproductive.

The cause of the yellow cast is the wristbands and sunlight combined with the low-quality digitisation of the video. It's not latex gloves (and he wouldn't be foolish enough to accidentally be wearing suspicious latex gloves while being...er...filmed) but I know there will be no convincing those who want to believe that's what they were.

Similarly all that hoo-ha about the pool photo and Madeleine or Amelie being dropped in etc. just makes us look silly IMO.

by DonNewbery 31.10.13 0:38

What about the gloves Kate's wearing at 26.48-56 then? Or can't you see those either?
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by AskTheDogsSandra 31.10.13 7:53

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The McCanns definitely took latex gloves with them on holiday though.

by DurhamGuy1967 31.10.13 8:13

AskTheDogsSandra wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The McCanns definitely took latex gloves with them on holiday though.

Looks like they are both wearing latex gloves to me.

by MrsC 31.10.13 8:16

AskTheDogsSandra wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The McCanns definitely took latex gloves with them on holiday though.

Why on earth would you take latex gloves with you on holiday?

by DurhamGuy1967 31.10.13 8:23

MrsC wrote:
AskTheDogsSandra wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The McCanns definitely took latex gloves with them on holiday though.
Why on earth would you take latex gloves with you on holiday?

Washing up / changing babies nappies, general cleaning. They are doctors they are easily availably and when they are "free", cheaper then marrigolds. My hands get very chapped sometimes so I put loads of cream on then latex gloves over the top so I don't get cream over everything I touch.

But it is weird in the video.

by ProfessorPPlum 31.10.13 8:29

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Compressed YouTube video at 460 res blurs things and bleeds things. See how the yellow wristbands bleed even in the relatively close up shot?

And if you need to believe Gerry and Kate are wearing latex gloves then you must also accept that the reporter has a blob of ham instead of hands and you need to be prepared to say that in a court of law.

by russiandoll 31.10.13 8:41

I have slowed down and paused this video and you can see the light hitting Gerry's arm and hand. I too say no gloves, although it is easy to see why initially it looks as if he is wearing a latex glove.

by DurhamGuy1967 31.10.13 8:57

russiandoll wrote:I have slowed down and paused this video and you can see the light hitting Gerry's arm and hand. I too say no gloves, although it is easy to see why initially it looks as if he is wearing a latex glove.

We will agree to differ ,FYI I 've searched and can't find any other threads for gloves or latex.

Could someone more capable than me do a new thread with a link to the video and question.

Is Gerry wearing gloves?
Is Kate wearing gloves?

But maybe with a warning to watch it carefully a few times.

Thanks

by margaret 31.10.13 9:51

ProfessorPPlum wrote:We've done this 'latex' gloves thing to death a long time ago. I came down firmly on the side of 'no gloves'. I have a lifetime's experience working with images and some of the ill-informed arguments about photoshopped last photos etc and bodies in Rocha Negra (anyone who deals with @oddityfinder on Twitter will know what I'm talking about) were frankly stupid and counterproductive.

The cause of the yellow cast is the wristbands and sunlight combined with the low-quality digitisation of the video. It's not latex gloves (and he wouldn't be foolish enough to accidentally be wearing suspicious latex gloves while being...er...filmed) but I know there will be no convincing those who want to believe that's what they were.

Similarly all that hoo-ha about the pool photo and Madeleine or Amelie being dropped in etc. just makes us look silly IMO.

I agree with you. In the still photos it does look like gloves, but in the video it's clear there are no gloves, just a trick of the light.

by Guest 31.10.13 11:11

I'm firmly in the no gloves camp.

But, I always have latex gloves available, also while traveling. They don't take any real space and sometimes come in very practical. At home there's always a big box in the utility room.

by Onager 01.11.13 19:58

Stewie wrote:Looking at the official timeline for Huelva we have:

The timeline, according to The Sun, is as follows:
09:00 Leave Praia da Luz
12:15 Arrive Huelva (expected at 11:00am)
13:00 Distribute leaflets and posters at train station
13:30 Distribute leaflets and posters at cathedral
14:00 Distribute leaflets and posters at bus station
14:20 Leave to return to Praia da Luz

But the police have the phone ping records and a witness statement which tell a different timeline:

Phone records:
Ping Assumadas mast 0849
Ping Tavira mast 1345
Ping Luz 1438
Witness statement:
Saw Mccanns in car at traffic lights in Huelva 1120

This gives us a new timeline:

Leave luz 0749
Assumadas ping ( from Luz 84k 57 mins ) 0849
Arrive Huelva (from Assumadas 122k 1hr 20) 1010 (1110 local time - 1 hour diff between portugal and spain)
Sighting in Huelva 1120 (1020 portuguese time)
Leave Huelva latest 1245
Tavira ping (from Huelva 85k 1hr) 1345
Luz ping (from Tavira 115k 1hr 15) 1438 must have been speeding

So I would say given this they were in huelva early stayed maybe a few hours and were back in luz by mid afternoon - very different to how the media portrayed it.

Data is taken from the pj files narrative for Kate phone pings 3 august:

On 3rd the first record of the mobile phone of Kate on this day was made on the antenna "Assumadas 2" at 8:49:07 and the second was already on the antenna of the operator Optimus installed in the [parish] of Santa Maria, municipal area of Tavira at 13:45:45.

The subsequent records indicate the journey of return to Luz, where it activates the antenna, also of the operator Optimus, installed in the [parish] of Luz, of the Municipality of Lagos at 14:38:56.

On the route are activated the antennae installed in Tavira (Santiago), Santo Estevao, Estoi, Santa Barbara of Nexe, Loule (Sao Clemente), Ferreiras, Pera, Porches and Estombar, entering then into the coverage area of the antenna of Luz.

According to the news related by some organs of the written media on 4th, the McCann were on this day in Huelva as part of their campaign to locate Madeleine.

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Does anyone know if this subject continues elsewhere, or did it lose steam at this point?

Having read the thread, and then stared at the map... between the two pings (Assumadas and Tavira) the McCann's had five hours available to them to cover 200km or more (Stewie, I think your distances are a little high) predominantly on a good road, leaving roughly 3 hrs (if not more, judging by distance/time between the latter two pings) to spend time putting up posters, handing out leaflets... etc. More than enough time to make a one hour detour...

A detour, or something else very important...

If nothing else, it's the switching off of the phone for 5 hours that gets me.

I mean, here are a couple 'shouting from the rooftops', searching for their 'lost' child, having suffered for the previous 3 months, and they switch off their phone(s?) thereby making it impossible for anyone to contact them re their other two children should an emergency arise... it just doesn't make sense.

Do we know if Kate was/is in the habit of switching off her phone to save battery?

by Nina 01.11.13 20:11

Please may I just add as a resident in Spain. A distance in kms by car in Spain, and no doubt in Portugal, is different than covering the same distance on UK roads.
This Monday I visited a village close to Ronda, I live close to Malaga so on a map very close but because of the types of road starting off on dirt tracks, then to single carriageway, then to double carriagway and then to toll roads, off onto excellent mountain passes, then back to single carriageway the seemingly short journey took hours.
Please take this into consideration when thinking where they may have been. However I do know that the roads they would have travelled on are major roads in the main so who knows, they may have taken some detours.

by Guest 01.11.13 20:14

Châtelaine wrote:I'm firmly in the no gloves camp.

But, I always have latex gloves available, also while traveling. They don't take any real space and sometimes come in very practical. At home there's always a big box in the utility room.

Traveling, Chatelaine dear? As in opening and closing the doors of your rented Renault Scenic, with the missus looking on, in the summer heat in Portugal?

Blimy, I put them on -surgical gloves that is- all the time!

And I always carry a microscope with me on my holidays too, just look at the whole video where you can see it sitting on a ledge.

Why?

Just because

by Guest 01.11.13 20:28

Portia, I think there are NO surgical gloves in that video ...
The rest of my post is airwaves ;-)

I do agree, though, that the Huelva-trip is somewhat suspicious, odd ...
And where's the microscope?
Or is that another of your jokes?
big grin

by Guest 01.11.13 20:47

Châtelaine wrote:Portia, I think there are NO surgical gloves in that video ...
The rest of my post is airwaves ;-)

I do agree, though, that the Huelva-trip is somewhat suspicious, odd ...
And where's the microscope?
Or is that another of your jokes?

No, to the last question

On the video of mr & mrs packing the car you clearly see mr wearing a surgical/latex glove, which many some consider unusual during high summer

by Guest 01.11.13 20:53

Portia wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Portia, I think there are NO surgical gloves in that video ...
The rest of my post is airwaves ;-)

I do agree, though, that the Huelva-trip is somewhat suspicious, odd ...
And where's the microscope?
Or is that another of your jokes?

No, to the last question

On the video of mr & mrs packing the car you clearly see mr wearing a surgical/latex glove, which many some consider unusual during high summer

***
We may have to agree to disagree then. I do NOT see a glove. It's a play of light at rather low definition video ...

by Guest 01.11.13 20:54

Châtelaine wrote:
Portia wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Portia, I think there are NO surgical gloves in that video ...
The rest of my post is airwaves ;-)

I do agree, though, that the Huelva-trip is somewhat suspicious, odd ...
And where's the microscope?
Or is that another of your jokes?

No, to the last question

On the video of mr & mrs packing the car you clearly see mr wearing a surgical/latex glove, which many some consider unusual during high summer
***
We may to agree to disagree then. I do NOT see a glove. It's a play of light at rather low definition video ...

No offense

by littlepixie 01.11.13 22:11

There must be two versions of this video . On 3a there was a huge thread about the gloves and I could never see them, yet I watched the video again the other day and I can clearly see them/it

by Mulderscully 25.11.13 12:32

Gerry is clearly wearing plastic gloves imo. I have no doubt about it. How you can deny this is beyond me. And I work with photoshop every day.

BUT: could this not be explained simply by the fact that the PJ were already searching their appartmen/car at that time and that they were asked to be as cautious as possible in their actions - by the police themselves. F.e. not to make any more prints than present.

Just a thought.

by **tigger** 25.11.13 13:17

Onager wrote:
Stewie wrote:Looking at the official timeline for Huelva we have:

The timeline, according to The Sun, is as follows:
09:00 Leave Praia da Luz
12:15 Arrive Huelva (expected at 11:00am)
13:00 Distribute leaflets and posters at train station
13:30 Distribute leaflets and posters at cathedral
14:00 Distribute leaflets and posters at bus station
14:20 Leave to return to Praia da Luz

But the police have the phone ping records and a witness statement which tell a different timeline:

Phone records:
Ping Assumadas mast 0849
Ping Tavira mast 1345
Ping Luz 1438
Witness statement:
Saw Mccanns in car at traffic lights in Huelva 1120

This gives us a new timeline:

Leave luz 0749
Assumadas ping ( from Luz 84k 57 mins ) 0849
Arrive Huelva (from Assumadas 122k 1hr 20) 1010 (1110 local time - 1 hour diff between portugal and spain)
Sighting in Huelva 1120 (1020 portuguese time)
Leave Huelva latest 1245
Tavira ping (from Huelva 85k 1hr) 1345
Luz ping (from Tavira 115k 1hr 15) 1438 must have been speeding

So I would say given this they were in huelva early stayed maybe a few hours and were back in luz by mid afternoon - very different to how the media portrayed it.

Data is taken from the pj files narrative for Kate phone pings 3 august:

On 3rd the first record of the mobile phone of Kate on this day was made on the antenna "Assumadas 2" at 8:49:07 and the second was already on the antenna of the operator Optimus installed in the [parish] of Santa Maria, municipal area of Tavira at 13:45:45.

The subsequent records indicate the journey of return to Luz, where it activates the antenna, also of the operator Optimus, installed in the [parish] of Luz, of the Municipality of Lagos at 14:38:56.

On the route are activated the antennae installed in Tavira (Santiago), Santo Estevao, Estoi, Santa Barbara of Nexe, Loule (Sao Clemente), Ferreiras, Pera, Porches and Estombar, entering then into the coverage area of the antenna of Luz.

According to the news related by some organs of the written media on 4th, the McCann were on this day in Huelva as part of their campaign to locate Madeleine.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Does anyone know if this subject continues elsewhere, or did it lose steam at this point?

Having read the thread, and then stared at the map... between the two pings (Assumadas and Tavira) the McCann's had five hours available to them to cover 200km or more (Stewie, I think your distances are a little high) predominantly on a good road, leaving roughly 3 hrs (if not more, judging by distance/time between the latter two pings) to spend time putting up posters, handing out leaflets... etc. More than enough time to make a one hour detour...

A detour, or something else very important...

If nothing else, it's the switching off of the phone for 5 hours that gets me.

I mean, here are a couple 'shouting from the rooftops', searching for their 'lost' child, having suffered for the previous 3 months, and they switch off their phone(s?) thereby making it impossible for anyone to contact them re their other two children should an emergency arise... it just doesn't make sense.

Do we know if Kate was/is in the habit of switching off her phone to save battery?

The topic did seem to have run out of steam, but not for me. I don't think they spent much time at all with posters and leaflets. Imo that would account for no more than half an hour. People were preparing for the Fiesta.
The photographs of the distribution of leaflets and posters are odd - one looks like a bus station with about five people around and not a soul interested in the McCanns.
The other one where they're sticking posters on a pillar looks like a petrol station which they may have used on the way.

They left Huelva around the time they were sighted imo. Midday at the latest. Nina: isn't a long part of their journey on a very good motorway?
Imo they did the bus station and a petrol station on the way, with a fiesta on the go I can't imagine getting to the train station or the cathedral would be easy, might have to be done on foot and there's no suitable photograph of Kate looking sad in front of the cathedral, a photo oppportunity too good to be missed, I'd think. No the bus station and the petrol station is all we have re visual material. They had several hours imo for their detour.

by Guest 25.11.13 20:31

tigger wrote:

They left Huelva around the time they were sighted imo. Midday at the latest. Nina: isn't a long part of their journey on a very good motorway?

Hi Tigger, I agree it's a shame this topic got bogged down with gloves etc. I think it's one of the most vital and intriguing subjects on the whole site.

For info, anybody who has travelled along the IP1/E1 will know that it is easy to maintain very high speeds, I wouldn't be surprised if you could reach the border from Luz (a distance of 140km) in just 1 hour without attracting any significant attention.

by Guest 25.11.13 20:43

I remember someone on the thread about Tony Rickman and his horrid and peculiar fascination with girls in quicksand mentioning that the National Park near Huelva is known for it's quicksand. I thought then that this may be significant. Don't know if a disposal here is feasible - is it a busy place? are there indeed lethal quicksands there? etc - but it may be worth some consideration. Chilling thought, though sad

by **tigger** 25.11.13 21:28

I'm not too fussed about gloves or not.
The self-styled film director Jon Corner is more interesting. The shots he's chosen to use say as much about him as his subjects. E.g. Kate apparently spacedout on happy pills going 'whoosh, clunk'. The low level shot of Gerry at the computer, thesoft focus here and there.
So why bother to film the loading of boxes of leaflets to take to Huelva? Morethan they could hope to distribute.
I think JC isin a couple of the shots, one of which lookslikeearly morning.
They must have come back with almost as many leaflets as they left.
Perhaps jon Corner was there with his big video camera to give the impression the press went along with them.
Perhaps they had another appointment, hence the detour.

@dee coy, I'm sure that wasn't the reason for the trip.i don't think they did it themselves. Imo of course.

by Guest 25.11.13 21:34

Ah, Jon Corner. Another character in the "charade". No offense meant, but I think if he would shake my hand, I would rub it dry on my pants [if you know the feeling? ...]. And a big enigma, indeed, that he did show a woosh-clunked Kate. I am at a loss there.

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