Re: When / What made you first question this "story"?

by MrsC 01.08.11 10:52

*snipped post*

mrscee wrote:

To borrow one of Gerry's fave words, this has all become 'ludicrous' in recent times, with the false India sighting, the removal of of Pat Brown's book from Amazon. Even threads on blooming Mumsnet which refer to the Mccanns in a less than favourable light are removed within a nanosecond for goodness sake! This case sums up for me everything which is not right about the world- corruption, silencing of legitimate opinions, secrecy and covering up at the highest levels. All story, and no truth.

My fear is that so many high ranking people are in this right up to their necks, that even an approximation of the truth will never be uncovered. But I hope I will be proved wrong, and justice will be done for Madeleine.

Justine Roberts, one of the founders of Mumsnet, is married to Ian Katz, deputy editor of The Guardian! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 01.08.11 11:47

Seconded. Welcome Mrscee

welcome2

by Guest 01.08.11 11:50

I was always torn between thinking that the parents did it and the doubt as to how they could have managed to hide her body. I think I decided that just because I don't like the parents it doesn't mean that they are guilty. So when I got Katie's book I thought that perhaps it would finally clear up any reservations that I might have had about them. Wrong. I really did try to keep an open mind but everywhere in the book screamed "Liar"

Then I found the PJ files, I didn't realize that they were released. For me it was the em, er, you know, rogatory statements. I had never contemplated for one moment that anyone other than the couple could possibly have been in on it. It still takes my breath away. Watching it evolve from the fake crime scene and those garbled statements to the massive and efficient business that it is today is frightening. Poor Madeleine has become a highly marketable product. I can't find any word to describe this. I can't find any word that will even come close.

In Katie's book, she says the truth will out. I wonder if there is anyone at all in team McCann who has a conscience, or even a small piece of common decency who might put the rights of a little girl above their own agenda? Is there anyone at all in the police force who will fight for little Madeleine? Until that happens, it's down to us winkwink

by ROSA 01.08.11 11:55

Molly a nice post roses

poor little maddie alone in life and death

by jd 01.08.11 11:57

Molly wrote:I was always torn between thinking that the parents did it and the doubt as to how they could have managed to hide her body. I think I decided that just because I don't like the parents it doesn't mean that they are guilty. So when I got Katie's book I thought that perhaps it would finally clear up any reservations that I might have had about them. Wrong. I really did try to keep an open mind but everywhere in the book screamed "Liar"

Then I found the PJ files, I didn't realize that they were released. For me it was the em, er, you know, rogatory statements. I had never contemplated for one moment that anyone other than the couple could possibly have been in on it. It still takes my breath away. Watching it evolve from the fake crime scene and those garbled statements to the massive and efficient business that it is today is frightening. Poor Madeleine has become a highly marketable product. I can't find any word to describe this. I can't find any word that will even come close.

In Katie's book, she says the truth will out. I wonder if there is anyone at all in team McCann who has a conscience, or even a small piece of common decency who might put the rights of a little girl above their own agenda? Is there anyone at all in the police force who will fight for little Madeleine? Until that happens, it's down to us

So very well said Molly. This echoes exactly my feelings and thoughts & how I got involved too. As I now know, there is a reason why the PJ files are not really known to have been published to the UK public. You are absolutely right it is down to us to fight for Maddie, we are her only real voice and at the moment I have no faith in Scotland Yard to expose the truth. All the ones directly involved are lying and covering up, and anyone and everyone who has read the PJ files have all come to the exact same conclusions from all over the world which says it all

by Guest 01.08.11 12:41

Thanks, Rosa, thanks JD

jd wrote: As I now know, there is a reason why the PJ files are not really known to have been published to the UK public.

It's exactly the same in Ireland and I suspect every other country too. In work this week I heard my colleagues discussing the sighting in India. They were all in agreement as to how harrowing it must be for the poor McCann's to have the public & media mess with their emotions. :puke:

by Guest 01.08.11 17:00

Oh dear Molly, your story left me feeling sick as a parrot! Does anyone know if there's anything other than the McCanns' fairy tale version of events being published by the mainstream media anywhere in the world?

by tellusanother1 01.08.11 21:55

Here in Canada we are getting the fairytale event as well Marian. Funny it didn't actually come out here until I started seeing the tweets and stories indicating it was not true. I can't believe that these journalists over here don't know this is going on and publish anyway. Its an embarrassement.

by sijm 21.12.11 14:33

Molly is right about Kate's book, what upset me was her use of gutter language when referring to a PJ police officer who was only doing his job in questioning her, this was the wake up call for me.

I had always thought Kate was a weak woman being used by those who were controlling a conspiracy, I felt so sorry for her when she came out of the church because of those twin henchmen that seem to be controlling the photoshoot, everything about it was weird.

In one shot of them walking towards a gathered press at the bottom of a hill hand in hand, Kate looked very frightened, suffering from hyper ventaltion ready to break but Gerry took the lead.

One part of Kate's book worried me, she talks about hating Murat and being handed him on a plate by the PJ as the one responsible for Madeleine's disappearance, she actually uses the word (disappearance not abduction) and she goes onto to say she felt as if she had been possessed by a demonic alien for several months, OMG! How long had she felt this way?

I am convinced Madeline's body has been located in Praia da Luz, and this fact will be proven in time, but alas, all to late to prove who put it there as after all this time she has long gone home to be near her darling little brother and sister, God Bless Madeleine +

by Me 21.12.11 14:48

MrsC wrote:*snipped post*

mrscee wrote:

To borrow one of Gerry's fave words, this has all become 'ludicrous' in recent times, with the false India sighting, the removal of of Pat Brown's book from Amazon. Even threads on blooming Mumsnet which refer to the Mccanns in a less than favourable light are removed within a nanosecond for goodness sake! This case sums up for me everything which is not right about the world- corruption, silencing of legitimate opinions, secrecy and covering up at the highest levels. All story, and no truth.

My fear is that so many high ranking people are in this right up to their necks, that even an approximation of the truth will never be uncovered. But I hope I will be proved wrong, and justice will be done for Madeleine.

Justine Roberts, one of the founders of Mumsnet, is married to Ian Katz, deputy editor of The Guardian! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Look at Clarence Mitchell's powerpoint presentation here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Under "The Components of a diplomatic crisis"

The forums debate multiply - managing libel in the blogosphere"

That tells you what you need to know about why the web is heavily censored.

by jd 09.01.12 14:04

WHY WE DONT TRUST KATE AND GERRY:

----TAKE YOUR PICK

inconsistent 'witness' statements, obfuscation, lies, the find madeleine 'fund', PR spokespeople, mortgage payments, "if she's dead, find the body", extradition lawyers, "we won't leave Portugal", comare, GB calls, FSS delays, cuddle cat washing, playing tennis 3 days later to astonishment of staff,instead of searching, "there's no suggestion we used sedatives (whilst rubbing left ear), visiting the whitehouse, having photo taken outside looking like a grinning tourist, visiting the pope, calling Sky first, "they've taken her", DNA, cadaver dogs, spin, shutters jemmied/not jemmied,or smashed according to gerry's brother, doors locked/open, "a feeling someone was in the room", trouser changing, faceless bundleman, not answering 40 questions, we are responsible parents,secret meetings witnesses and lawyers in hotels to get stories straight, "everybody does it","wholly innocent explanations for what may or may not be found", mates flying in to take documentary footage, trademaking of 'names', using fraud specialist investigators to 'find your child', pacts of silence, private jets, Murat in Exeter, "I'm not going to comment on that" (whether he knows Murat or not), 'unhelpful' comments from grandma, 'not really in answer as to whether they were church goers,mobile phone triangulation, xenophobic rantings by MEP's and 'journalists' - both with apparent special needs, unprecedented media coverage, checking every 15mins/30 mins/not checking, "posters in mountain villages in Portugal and Spain, 50 yards/120yards, friendly priests becoming 'unhelpful', fond memories of the holiday, smelly nappies in car well, 'remembering facts' 7 months later, 'sightings' with swarthy people in swarthy lands, blah, blah blah blah etc etc etc. .. the spin, lies, inconsistencies, circumspect funding of ex Govt. personnel, and general bullsh*t by those protecting child neglectors. In fact it all stinks to high heaven. .

by anil39200 09.01.12 16:12

For me, it is the cold indifference, the general inability to accept their responsiility, the apparent need for publicity, the book is like the rantings of a spoiled child, the arrogance that whatever they say must be the truth, their and their friends seeming ly being involved in some pact of silence which cannot let the truth be known at any cost , their unusual step of setting up a limited company which many people still belive is a charity and their latching on to celebrities in order to further their own agenda. I guess that sims it up for me. In short, I have met and dealt with people like this who are of the belief that anything is for making money from to fuel a lifestyle which they aspire to. I have said before, this is almost like a job creation scheme for a spoiled person who has to have their own way no matter what. A child has paid the price and that is despicable.

and furthermore a total lack of empathy and parenting skills.

by jd 10.01.12 16:54

I didn't realise that the journalist who asked gerry if he already knew Murat was Sandra Felgueiras. Interesting

by juliet 10.01.12 18:27

That first press statement from Kate McCann, supposedly to the kidnapper, didn't ring true. I thought that she looked shifty, rather than devastated...her eyes flickered from side to side and her appeal held no real feeling.

Of course, we were told the McCanns had "been told not to show emotion" which sounded like something made up to cover the fact that everyone was thinking they were oddly cold and detached.

"They've taken her" always seemed suspicious. And their pal Jill Renwick on Sky the morning after, talking about how pretty the child was - as if that was the major reason to care. This woman also said the child had white blonde hair. Did she even know Madeleine? Was it in fact Amelie who was supposed to be taken?

by **tigger** 10.01.12 20:12

juliet wrote:That first press statement from Kate McCann, supposedly to the kidnapper, didn't ring true. I thought that she looked shifty, rather than devastated...her eyes flickered from side to side and her appeal held no real feeling.

Of course, we were told the McCanns had "been told not to show emotion" which sounded like something made up to cover the fact that everyone was thinking they were oddly cold and detached.

"They've taken her" always seemed suspicious. And their pal Jill Renwick on Sky the morning after, talking about how pretty the child was - as if that was the major reason to care. This woman also said the child had white blonde hair. Did she even know Madeleine? Was it in fact Amelie who was supposed to be taken?

The white blond hair was also mentioned by a guest - I think this is all part of the great likelihood that the girl standing in for Maddie was very pretty and light blonde, and yes, the fact that she was so pretty (which imo she wasn't and quite a lot of photographs prove this ) should not be relevant at all.

by juliet 10.01.12 21:31

In fact, there was huge stress laid on the fact that Madeleine was attractive. Kate McCann said to the police "You must find my daughter, she's so beautiful." I clearly remember Jill Renwick going on about her prettiness....then there was Jon Corner and David Payne stressing how charismatic she was. They were all, imo, very anxious to suggest this child had attracted a paedophile. They wanted nothing else to be considered - let alone the most obvious thing, that she'd walked out of the unlocked door in search of her missing parents.

by **tigger** 11.01.12 7:34

jd wrote:I didn't realise that the journalist who asked gerry if he already knew Murat was Sandra Felgueiras. Interesting

He didn't like Sandra did he? Be interesting to see all her interviews. In the 'ask the dogs' interview he is trying to flirt with her until she asks the wrong question.
Then he smiles after his fantastic joke, but that smile gives me an unspoken message "you can't touch us' sort of thing. Perhaps GB and Socrates had already done a deal by then.

by Guest 11.01.12 13:21

I followed the case since day one.. just read the news and so.. After a while, I started to seek on the internet for more information or just to see if there where any news about Madeleine..

thats when i discovered the PJ files , forums and so one.. I started to read.. There are many things in this case making you stop and think, what ? why? wow..

Basicly what made me read more and really get an interest in this case was JT sighting. The fact that the timeline was very small, and the fact that the way JT described the abducter and the way "he" carried the child was almost impossible to be true. If she was taken from her bed as described by her parents, the abducter would have had to take her out of bed, then turned her around at some point so the feets where pointing towards JT. If she was taken out of bed and walked away with straight away, the childs head would have been ponting the direction JT was walking.
Rachael Oldfiled also said in her first statement 04 May 2007 - " She considers it impossible that a stranger could take her without her shouting or crying. She is a smart child who knows right from wrong." By saying this she is implaying that Madeleine was sedated and she also implayes,if she was taken, Madeleine knew that person.

But if Madeleine was sedated by any other than her parents, how the heck would that person to do it all? Break window and shutters, sedate all children, taking madeleine out of bed, then moves her before sedating her , the drug needs time to work, than pick her up again opposit direction from how she slept in bed, than walked out the door or window just in time for JT to see him. And all that in a few minutes? . All this with Gerry just around the corner? When Gerry had just been in the apartment? Without leaving any traces what so ever? And why walk towards people instead of away from them ?

And why on that night where Kate and Jane doing check on children when as to other witness statements its said it was always the men doing this checks?

there are a whole list of things developed along the way when reading the pjfiles and other analysis.

Im very sure they are not telling the truth, and what the truth is I dont really know.. I have ideas and scenarios that could reason for it all..

Hopefully 2012 will be the year of truth, I think it will !! :)

by jd 11.01.12 13:41

the drug needs time to work

How true

by Fred Up 13.01.12 21:17

I never was really captivated by the initial story. However, I distinctly remember my first WTF moment was seeing on the National news, the McCs out jogging. As a Mother of 4 children, the youngest being 2 years old, I definitely know that my own natural reaction to a supposed abduction would be one of sheer, paralyzed anxiety. I am a bit of a gym bunny myself, but, for crying out loud - keeping up a fitness regime when your little one is God knows where? No! Just, no! I would either be comatose with tranquilizers or out from dusk till dawn poking under hedges with sticks, screaming round the streets and knocking on every door in desperation! Ho hum. I dismissed it as perhaps eccentric behaviour and perhaps putting up a brave front for the press.

My second WTF moment came when I read of David Payne's "pact of silence". Something wasn't quite right, but I put it to the back of my mind and went about my daily, hectic existence.

Fast forward to around June 2011. As a member of another forum, mainly for Mothers, I read a thread discussing KM's recently published puke, sorry...book. Someone who didn't swallow the "abduction" story posted a link to GA's Truth of The Lie. I spent hours and hours reading with my mouth wide open in horror and disbelief at what I didn't know...and what the majority of right-thinking people still don't know and my suspicions were confirmed.

Every day I think of MM case and every day I pray that whomever covered up whatever happened to that little girl will be brought to justice. I'm not holding my breath, though...

by Badboys 13.01.12 21:59

The dogs,finding out that they scented death in the apartment.

by Advocatus 14.01.12 7:05

Stella wrote:Yes, I too could not believe that professional people could ever leave their most precious possessions on their own, in a cold, dark, strange place. But I suspected something very fishy was up when I heard the one off report that someone in the groups identity is being witheld. A claim that has been vigourously denied over the last 4 years, but I know I am not alone in hearing that first report.

Mr Edmonds who quickly flew back to Switzerland - Oppenheimer clan, cousin of Margaret hodge mp, same clan, very well in with the blairs and browns..

by Genbug 14.01.12 8:18

Advocatus wrote:
Stella wrote:Yes, I too could not believe that professional people could ever leave their most precious possessions on their own, in a cold, dark, strange place. But I suspected something very fishy was up when I heard the one off report that someone in the groups identity is being witheld. A claim that has been vigourously denied over the last 4 years, but I know I am not alone in hearing that first report.

Mr Edmonds who quickly flew back to Switzerland - Oppenheimer clan, cousin of Margaret hodge mp, same clan, very well in with the blairs and browns..

Don't think it was him. After all, who is he but a nobody connected to a minor somebody? Nobody would have even heard of him.

by Guest 14.01.12 9:02

I don't think it was him either, as he was not part of that group. He was there, yes. But not directly part of the T9 group. That early report had to have referred to someone they had close contacts with. The number 9 has never sat well with me. Then we have Moita Flores talking about a possible 12. I have a strong feeling, always have, that this tall, thin, pushy man, who made the block tapas booking for everyone, is the one whose identity is being protected. winkwink

by Badboys 14.01.12 14:56

There was also supposedly a picture in one of the early newspapers after the disappearance showing a man with his back to the camera.

(the picture showed holidaymakers walking to board an airplane back to where they come from.