Re: Photographs and memories

by Nina 04.11.11 12:01

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I have brought this forward to save nipping backwards and forwards, many thanks Get em for the group.

The main clue for me is the chin, yes I know there are other indications to look at but I am drawn to the very distinctive chin and on some of the photographs it is pointy and others very square. Best to enlarge but for example just compare the tennis ball Madeleine and pink fairy Madeleine with the very pointy chin to the square jaw of the pony riding Madeleine and the red velvet dressMadeleine.

The easy to compare are the pony riding and the fairy as they are side by side. And yes on the fairy pic the little girl is giving a cheesey grin, the pony little girl a sad strained poorly smile. But a smile is with muscle the chin base is bone.

When was the pony photograph supposed to have been taken? Was it close in time to the PdL holiday?

And the bath/pool picture and the fairy picture show the scar over the left eyebrow. Not on any of the others.

by **tigger** 04.11.11 13:22

IMO jawlines change a lot, teeth and ears do not.
So for the gap teeth photos we have:
pony (although that's not clear), fairy, pool, tennis, sad one, poster, poolside.
for the big ears we have:
pony (again not entirely clear), fairy, pool, tennis. The rest we can't see but I think the sad one, poster, poolside in any case definitely Maddie.

I think the girl with the blue scarf and the pumpkin could be the same. Their teeth are all close together. The crimped hair one is definitely not Maddie, different smile and the teeth are straight.

It's unlikely that Maddie's teeth were ever different, it is usually once the baby teeth have gone that teeth change. Often means braces to sort gaps out.

And thanks, Daisy, for saying you enjoy our tussles. But that's the beauty of this forum, I've been proved wrong several times and so what? I'm better informed. E.g. I was dead set against Huelva, until Peter Mac et al did so much research and deduction.
Another thought, Russian Doll, you'd be good at this, if only we could get a child psychologist to look at the videos and photographs! Maddie nearly always seems unsure and half the time doesn't look very well to me. But her body language e.g. in the ghastly fairy video and the Christmas one, the one in the hallway, surely would tell an expert something.

by russiandoll 04.11.11 14:30

yes PMac that is the one where I initially thought it was another girl due to the real cheesy grin and narrowed eyes, but another shot on pamamlam site shows the face of Maddie as I have come to know it, I can paste it into a message but I am not allowed to send it, I can only say that as I am sure most of you will know, if you google Madeleine Beth McCann photos and go to pamalam site, there are a lot of photos of Maddie at different ages.
What I dont understand is why the elaborate alteration of images as appears to be the case in some photos ?
But it certainly is dubious that a current photo was not immediately made available asap after event May 3 '07.

by jd 04.11.11 15:36

russiandoll wrote: But it certainly is dubious that a current photo was not immediately made available asap after event May 3 '07.

Even more dubious were printed posters with an old photo of Maddie on it being distributed an hour after they discovered her missing, and before the PJ got there!!!!

by Guest 04.11.11 16:19

Nina wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I have brought this forward to save nipping backwards and forwards, many thanks Get em for the group.

The main clue for me is the chin, yes I know there are other indications to look at but I am drawn to the very distinctive chin and on some of the photographs it is pointy and others very square. Best to enlarge but for example just compare the tennis ball Madeleine and pink fairy Madeleine with the very pointy chin to the square jaw of the pony riding Madeleine and the red velvet dressMadeleine.

The easy to compare are the pony riding and the fairy as they are side by side. And yes on the fairy pic the little girl is giving a cheesey grin, the pony little girl a sad strained poorly smile. But a smile is with muscle the chin base is bone.

When was the pony photograph supposed to have been taken? Was it close in time to the PdL holiday?

And the bath/pool picture and the fairy picture show the scar over the left eyebrow. Not on any of the others.

I Think the pool and PDl pool picture could have been taken around the same time. As they look closer in age.
What I dont understand about the PDL pool pic is that she looks much younger than other pictures of her taken before this..And the tennispic also look much older than the PDL picture despite that they are supposed to be take within only a few days...

The Ponny girl look nothing like the others picture., I think it is taken just a couple of months before the trip. But what does it matter? She do not look like Madeleine in any age.. Im starting to believe that maybe that was the real madeleine? Because im sorry, but she is not that pretty, and Kate beein obsessed with her beauty... And the pumpkin girl is also very different in every way..She reminds me of someone,, can't figure out who, maybe a celeberty of some kind :)

And Madeleine with the faked curls on, do not look like her at all, and looks like a girl closer to 5 or 6, not a 3 year old. NO WAY she can be 3 years on that picture...

by rainbow-fairy 04.11.11 18:11

Moa wrote:
Nina wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I have brought this forward to save nipping backwards and forwards, many thanks Get em for the group.

The main clue for me is the chin, yes I know there are other indications to look at but I am drawn to the very distinctive chin and on some of the photographs it is pointy and others very square. Best to enlarge but for example just compare the tennis ball Madeleine and pink fairy Madeleine with the very pointy chin to the square jaw of the pony riding Madeleine and the red velvet dressMadeleine.

The easy to compare are the pony riding and the fairy as they are side by side. And yes on the fairy pic the little girl is giving a cheesey grin, the pony little girl a sad strained poorly smile. But a smile is with muscle the chin base is bone.

When was the pony photograph supposed to have been taken? Was it close in time to the PdL holiday?

And the bath/pool picture and the fairy picture show the scar over the left eyebrow. Not on any of the others.

I Think the pool and PDl pool picture could have been taken around the same time. As they look closer in age.
What I dont understand about the PDL pool pic is that she looks much younger than other pictures of her taken before this..And the tennispic also look much older than the PDL picture despite that they are supposed to be take within only a few days...

The Ponny girl look nothing like the others picture., I think it is taken just a couple of months before the trip. But what does it matter? She do not look like Madeleine in any age.. Im starting to believe that maybe that was the real madeleine? Because im sorry, but she is not that pretty, and Kate beein obsessed with her beauty... And the pumpkin girl is also very different in every way..She reminds me of someone,, can't figure out who, maybe a celeberty of some kind :)

And Madeleine with the faked curls on, do not look like her at all, and looks like a girl closer to 5 or 6, not a 3 year old. NO WAY she can be 3 years on that picture...

Okaaayyy, I'm REALLY confused! In the above pictures, the 'tennis ball' photo and the 'pony ride' photo in particular - Maddies hair is BROWN!!!. Why is her hair brown? Was her hair really brown, digitally altered to blonde, or vice-versa? If you want your child found, you'd release a picture that actually LOOKED like them surely? Those pictures, IMHO, look like separate children!

by Guest 14.11.11 19:50

somewhere on this site, on this thread I think, I've seen a picture of Amelie, Maddie and whats looks like another slightly bigger Madeleine..
I always thought that picture was altered with and something that did not come from the mccanns. No I saw this Documentary: "wheres Madeleine - 48 hours".. look at the picture at 2.15 Does anyone know if this picture was given by G + K to the media or this documentary?

I also noticed, in the start of this one, or the start of the mocumentary, when they sit around the kitchentable painting, that Sean refered to Madeleine as Maddie. The Part where Kate ask wich name she has painted and what the name of his other sister is...

by rainbow-fairy 15.11.11 7:39

Moa wrote:somewhere on this site, on this thread I think, I've seen a picture of Amelie, Maddie and whats looks like another slightly bigger Madeleine..
I always thought that picture was altered with and something that did not come from the mccanns. No I saw this Documentary: "wheres Madeleine - 48 hours".. look at the picture at 2.15 Does anyone know if this picture was given by G + K to the media or this documentary?

I also noticed, in the start of this one, or the start of the mocumentary, when they sit around the kitchentable painting, that Sean refered to Madeleine as Maddie. The Part where Kate ask wich name she has painted and what the name of his other sister is...

Sean called her 'Maddie'? And here's me thinking the family only EVER called her 'Madeleine'! Now where could I possibly have got that idea from! Silly me... Wink

by Angelique 27.11.11 7:16

Just to return yet again to the anomaly of the "Pool picture". (my private obsession)

Is it possible that the background of this picture is someone else's picture and Gerry and Amelie and Madeleine are all then photoshopped in. This could explain the young looking Madeleine, Gerry "hovering" on the edge of the pool and a recent photo of Amelie with a black line behind from another photo.

by Guest 27.11.11 8:57

You're not alone there Angelique though with me all the photos supposedly taken in PDL and in Donegal a month earlier are extremely dubious, not to mention others which are almost certainly not Madeleine! It's always been my belief that the poolside one could be genuine BUT taken the previous summer. I can't comment on the problems with shadows and reflections but what jumps out at me is that the photo looks as if it was taken on a blazing summer's day yet the weather in PDL then does not support that.

by uppatoffee 27.11.11 10:33

Is there not some kind of computer software that could check these photos out? I have iPhoto which uses some kind of basic face recognition software, but I am sure there must be lots more sophisticated programs that would be a look at this and make something of the many different faces of Madeleine.

Re the pool photo has anyone used Gerry to measure Madeleine and Amelie against? Like using the tennis ball to calculate the height of the girl in that photo. After all, his height should be fairly constant unlike that of his children!

by Angelique 27.11.11 20:37

Marian

Thank goodness you are with me on this smilie

- I am getting a bit worried that I can't seem to leave this subject alone. I totally agree with you that the Tapas9 all said the weather was not good in their statements - so as you remark, we see a blazing hot day round the pool with Gerry "suffering almost" in the heat. I also can't comment on shadows and angles - too techinical for me I am afraid. We did have the discussion earlier about the season - but I wonder does anyone know what type of tree the one in the background is. If its deciduous would in be in full leaf in May. Or perhaps is an evergreen. In fact, do they have deciduous trees in Portugal?

uppatoffee

I imagine that the forensic people may have this sort of equipment - I wonder if they have also found all these pictures strange. I think 'tigger" on here has tried to calculate this before with another photo (I think the tennis one) I know tennis balls were involved - oh and also the playground one where if you straighten out Madeleine she almost reaches Gerry's shoulder.

by uppatoffee 27.11.11 22:04

Just out of curiosity I copied 20 photos of Madeleine into iphoto and applied the face recognition software. I used one of the Everton photos as the starting point. iphoto then scanned all the other photos in my albums and identified ones that might also be her. It came up with 3 other photos from the 20 that might also be her, based on the algorithms it uses! big grin

by Angelique 27.11.11 22:15

uppatoffee

Oh well done - I don't have any software at all for photo enhancement etc. unfortunately. So, some that were attributable as Madeleine and then possibly 3 others that "might be". It's that "might be" that's interesting Shocked

by rainbow-fairy 27.11.11 22:30

uppatoffee wrote:Just out of curiosity I copied 20 photos of Madeleine into iphoto and applied the face recognition software. I used one of the Everton photos as the starting point. iphoto then scanned all the other photos in my albums and identified ones that might also be her. It came up with 3 other photos from the 20 that might also be her, based on the algorithms it uses! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Oh, wow! Nice one, uppatoffee! Which ones are they? I get sooo frustrated, I spend so much of my time thinking about Maddie and justice for her, but don't even know what she looks like! Crazy. Wink

by jd 28.11.11 0:20

Angelique wrote:Marian I totally agree with you that the Tapas9 all said the weather was not good in their statements - so as you remark, we see a blazing hot day round the pool with Gerry "suffering almost" in the heat.

I have always thought this too. And Maddies hands on the tennis photo..she would have had to have been wearing gloves the whole holiday. Yeah right!, it weren't that hot! And in the Donegal photos there were 2 photos which show her hands as being so very weird for one reason or another

by listener 28.11.11 1:05

Surely there is an offical record of the temperatures recorded that week in Luz?

by Guest 28.11.11 9:34

listener wrote:Surely there is an offical record of the temperatures recorded that week in Luz?

All I can find at the moment is this link to average temperatures - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - posted at 6.31 on 7th June.

by finch 28.11.11 17:07

I don't know if this is of any help but on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you can find the weather conditions on any given day in the past. I copied May 3, 2007 as an example for Lagos Portugal.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by rainbow-fairy 29.11.11 1:27

finch wrote:I don't know if this is of any help but on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you can find the weather conditions on any given day in the past. I copied May 3, 2007 as an example for Lagos Portugal.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Interesting - thanks, finch.
So we have IF photo was taken @ 2.29 pm on May 3rd 07, as K claims the temperature was 19•C and there were scattered clouds. Now I don't like the heat but even I could cope with that. GMcC looks more like he's sitting in 29•C!
Is there anywhere else in the bewk that Kate mentions weather e.g rain etc? Seems the above is a good site for getting hour by hour info...

by Tinkerbell81 29.11.11 18:12

rainbow-fairy wrote:
Is there anywhere else in the bewk that Kate mentions weather e.g rain etc? Seems the above is a good site for getting hour by hour info...

The outing to the beach with the kids where they mention the weather being bad, Im sure there are more but I have to look it up for you

by jd 29.11.11 18:45

Tinkerbell81 wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:
Is there anywhere else in the bewk that Kate mentions weather e.g rain etc? Seems the above is a good site for getting hour by hour info...

The outing to the beach with the kids where they mention the weather being bad, Im sure there are more but I have to look it up for you

Was that May 2nd? It was raining that day in Lagos according to the weather chart

by uppatoffee 29.11.11 23:22

This is what I could see scanning the book.

P47 - talking about day 1 "the weather was pleasant enough, there was a cool breeze. It was April after all." she goes on to mention it took three hours to warm up after their swim.

P48 - "this early in the season the nights were not that warm."

P58 - talking about Tuesday's beach trip "the weather wasn't great, in fact on the beach it started to rain."

P59 - talking about Wednesday 2nd "today it rained." obviously enough for tennis lessons to be cancelled in the morning. They were rearranged for the afternoon so weather must have improved.

P65 - Thursday 3rd "the weather was a little on the cool side and I remember thinking I should have bought a cardigan for her." this is when she claims to have taken the last photo by the pool. Definitely doesn't look like cool weather that required a cardigan. And no mention of Amelie needing one either!

Going back to my little face recognition experiment, I think it is tricky with photos of children as you need to have a range to get an accurate picture of how they changed as they grew up. iPhoto only identified a few of the Madeleine photos in, but added a few of my daughter who looks a bit like her in some photos, although is a lot blonder! I would love to know what you could do with decent specific software. Although I would guess that the problem there would be trying to work out which are the actual ones of Madeleine as she looks so different in each of them. Looking at the football shirt ones again this week, I can't even be sure the two different photos are the same girl! what

by Guest 30.11.11 0:07

Uppatoffee, I know what you mean about the variations of the football shirt photos not all appearing to be of the same girl. Somewhere on this site there was one of them together with a framed copy of what was supposedly exactly the same photo but the faces were different. I can't find it now but here's a link to a not very clear copy of what I think was one of them.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's noticeable that the shirt has a white edging round the neck which I don't think other versions have.