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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Leave No Stone Unturned

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Leave No Stone Unturned - Page 27 Empty Re: Leave No Stone Unturned

Post by crusader 21.11.23 9:15

I appreciate your interest, It's definately worth a look at.
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Post by Guest 21.11.23 10:24

crusader , it would help if you can lead us to the video you mean, verdi was quite active yesterday with video's on that tread. i have only seen a bit of what you could mean, in the first of the al jaazera series, but that is inside where philomena i think is sitting on a couch with a wall in dual tones of to say it as it is, dirty yellows.

no time today to look all video's again today, at least not before tonight possible, something urgent work related stuff that walked in yesterday at dinnertime. 

and i think you do not mean a wall inside, the make up photo has a lot to place it outside. it would be nice to find the place it could have been taken and also when.
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Post by Verdi 21.11.23 12:22

I don't think anything can be gleaned from the background of that 'make-up' image, in my view the image is not genuine - the reason it was published is of course another matter altogether.

Why would anyone publish an image (I say image because I don't think it to be a photograph) of a 3 year old child that could provoke such negativity?

From recollection I think the image made it's debut in the rather distasteful video produced by the McCann friend and media professional, Jon Corner, I don't think it has appeared anywhere else or in any other form aside from mainstream/social media.  Mass production has created the usual disparity, size, colour, orientation etc.

The video, a compilation of Madeleine images - screenshots taken from video..

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Somewhere along the line I found the evidence to suggest the above ^^^ photograph was taken at the McCann familial home.

Madeleine McCann May 2010 Appeal



With all that in mind, here is a resume of the known FACTS about this photo:

1. It first appeared in a 2-minute video produced by Jon Corner in May 2010 for the third anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance
2. The McCanns had never published it themselves during those past three years
3. The McCanns have never admitted that one of them took this photo
4. As Jon Corner was clearly in possession of this image in May 2010, either he took it himself, or one of the McCanns took it and gave it to him, OR some unknown third party took the photograph and handed it to Jon Corner
5. The McCanns claimed that the photo was taken after Madeleine had been 'playing with Mummy's dressing-up box
6. Almost no-one believes this to be accurate, because they consider that Madeleine could not have done all, or indeed any, of the following:
put on her hair bead
put on her necklace
apply blue eyeshadow neatly
apply red lipstick neatly
apply black eyeliner neatly
7. The yellow stucco background for the Make Up Photo corresponds with that of many houses and apartments in Praia da Luz but not to properties in England
8. There are several indications that the Make Up Photo could have been taken on the very same day as the Last Photo
Madeleine is wearing a pink hair bead in both photos
Madeleine is wearing a pink top/smock/dress in both photos
Her hair length and style is identical in both photos
9. No-one can say for sure whether Madeleine looks happy or unhappy in that photo - but the majority view has always been that she looks unhappy.

Tony Bennett comment for CMOMM 6 years ago

Disclaimer:  This is one persons opinion and does not necessarily reflect the views of the forum.  they are not known FACTS.

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Post by CaKeLoveR 21.11.23 12:38

What sort of audience was this video aimed at? My stupid question for today.
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Post by Verdi 21.11.23 12:46

2007 05 04 Gerry's mother and sister ITV


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Post by Guest 21.11.23 13:03

still tony made a good selection about what he and many others could find out. 

and it could be a still taken from a bit of a video, the photo never had that quality a photo can reach. 

the stucco could be far more around everywhere, i think most at the time it was under discussion, most did go by the impression of all in it. the age of madeleine, the most likely outdoor setting, so pre may 3 2007 such an airy summer outfit would not be to expect from a more northern country and se looks far more near to the age she also showed in many other pictures from that week in may 2007, it is not that you can say, it could be just from the summer before.

you could certainly find more yellow/light ochre tinted stucco in ireland, but if you look at the holiday pictures that are around from that stay of the family, most do not give much sunny impressions at all. so that can only been a rare sunny moment, and she had at that time a more different styled hair. 

the infamous blue thing is never reached a certain conclusion, it always ended up between being a very typical in fashion blue outdoor seating, we had to buy from that same mold dark green or army green or white in 2007. or a blue shirt, some even a shirt with a persons shoulder in it.

for me and i do go from a lot of experience in producing pictures from classic photo films the light is typical for outdoors, the effect of direct and indirect sunlight outdoors of the kind mostly to get from late spring or early september in the netherlands on a very nice day. 

the problem that there still is, even if we would put it to a democratic vote, it would still be not factual at all. 

so i do like it to relook later today to crusaders idea in the video. but if that is only indoors, i would not easily agree. indoor stucco is also often much smoother, and as i am such an idiot to not listen to experienced people in that segment of indoors wall fashion, i am at least 3 times a week get the memory, because i do have pretty raw stucco inside everywhere and it eat you bit by bit if you get near the stuff. so most people are much wiser in these things and simply do use it only on the outside. 

i think most posters at that time have been okay with tony his assembled facts. 

for me that topic was more realizing if i even would ask someone to put some pictures of someone on the internet, it would not be jon corner for sure. he even works in that field, but he probably is not gifted with looking what is appropriate at all. 

and it had nothing to do with, there had not been that many pictures, in the 3 part chilean broadcast susan heally has a load of them. even you ca get a glimp of them, most look far more the just a little girl that could have been used.
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Post by crusader 21.11.23 14:47

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The video I referred to is 271 on the video of the day post, it is also on some of the others as well.
It is an indoor room I'm referring to so will be of no interest to you.

It was just a thought and Judging by the overall reaction, not one of my better ones.
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Post by Guest 21.11.23 15:39

if you not take a shot, you cannot score a goal. never worry about that. 

i think you deserve at least a point, because you was able to find at least a yellow wall in connection to the mccanns, i think no one else got even that far in the original discussion. 

and it is not that i have to pay for give it a bit of a view. so i will take tonight just a third look.
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Post by Guest 23.11.23 11:32

for me all these non expected reactions from all kind of people, the parents, the family and friends are still something i can not understand. 

the most 'normal'response is in that first video of eileen and i think patricia cameron-mccann. but after that all is so over the top, misplaced and takes only the attention from the victim away. 

still they even gone to court because others had to keep their eye out for the victim, only she madeleine is never really there. she is only named in reflection to the parents. 

words like she has to be home with her parents they need her. they do not cover madeleine, they are about the parents.

same with the parents they feel, they think, they hope, they want, but still there is no connection. and there was a connection between madeleine and her parents and other family, enough old pictures to get that impression. you never can be really be sure, what is behind a front door, but i do not see easy signals to get into she, madeleine was a burden. hand me down clothing is still a much used practice,certainly on the age they can grow out of the last set in a fortnight. it was not even done hidden. 

their standing in society was mostly just started, just because they both became doctors, not so much from their bank accounts and income. often you see in older comments on social media, and some still use it, they just have been rich white people, middle class. well being white is not something you can choose, and middle class they only just reached that borderline around may 2007. rich is unlikely. even if you was lucky and earned scolarships, fat change there are still student loans you have to pay back. and 3 young children are never cheap. a new house, and that looked quite a lucky buy. still moving house is not cheap too.

and reaching middle class makes obligations too, that are not cheap too. being seen active in sports is almost a must. and it is always unclear if the stuff you see them have to be really owned, or just under finance.

so to say they truly could be well off, i doubt that, they still neede a few years to reach a comfortable life style.
they had adapted the life style mostly to the outside world. doing and showing of what they thought was most agreeable with where they could grow into. 

how that holiday week would happen as told to their family was most likely a fair bit exaggerated, that is what still keeps it around,as from the villa. instead of just a small apartment in the ocean club. but also the way kate talked about the outfit for the holiday. 

and that holiday took place in a pretty cheap apartment, it was the mark warner sports and child arrangements that made it pricey. these apartments with two bedrooms was also to get for between 220 and 250 euro's for an early season period at the time. at least that has been the prices for fully self catering, that still could be seen online until 2010. 

it later also was talked into a house, a holiday let, and from the reactions of the family members in early bits, that was just a bit over the top. and showing off is usually seen as a grayish white lie. it only became part of many myths. the hotelroom mix up is proibably to thank the americans for, they have a lot of motel accommodation, that are sometimes just rooms, some more self catering style, often in large blocks, with doors just directly to the street or parking spaces. 

but it sends a lot of misconceptions around, and european hotels, and even most motel accommodation has a lobby to pass through. it is quite rare to have a door directly onto the street or outside, usually a kind of hallways and entree and exit needs to pass a front desk or side desk. 

it could be why a lot of people see the window so much as a more likely way for enter and exit. it just paints a very different painting of the place. 
even the deception detective still talks from a hotelroom, with beds in the same room. 

and as long before was already looked into, because the different family and friends, who would have been not the most likely bunch to already have been in contact with each other, started talking about jemmied, or broken shutters and windows being broken into. i think phil had even the front door fully open. it was just not said in a way, it resulted from stories these family and friends made up from their own minds.
and because it was almost rolling on the news in little clips these first days, that could have made it into a basic memory, and it is always hard to get that out of your minds, or that of others. 

and the for the mccanns most important part was calling it out as a 100% sure abduction, the family and friends back in the uk, had no reason to doubt the parents,and it just keep in a lot of minds. most people who are still into abduction, do never truly answer the question, there was nothing that could guide you into another explanation for the first days. and for most it was already part of their facts, just because they had been told about only an abduction. and outside the uk it was even harder, because that first day there was outside the uk hardly anything said about it. it changed from the saturday. and in the netherlands i missed the tv news after that, but we still had a amsterdam related newspaper and that picked it mostly up, when became clear the mccanns had a time lived in amsterdam. i was in france and spain, and i always bought a local and national paper in that time, there was very little news, just small bits in the other news left columns.
it never really took of. 

because i had seen the press conference of the mccanns on saturday may 5, 2007, i just kept an eye out for the story, and i was actually surprised it was still a story. my first impression of the mccanns was they know what is happened with their daughter. they did tell to look for her, but not what i actually supposed to look for. and i never felt the obligation so much, you still keep an eye out but it is hard if you have not really a clear description. a picture of half her then age, was not really a help too. 

we also never did see that many children, we always tried more to escape such events. children with parents in their spare time, are just not the most successful or ideal situations. we have hardly a problem with kids, we have experience with all ages, but we have been always fond of being able to give them back to parents or carers. such an easier concept. so most we would see they all seem to very much belonged where we seen them. 

and by our logic, abducting a child under 6 simply sounds as a very stupid thing to do. as to be used as a replacement, okay that could be a reason to keep a child. but the idea of a pedo abductor that keeps them alive on that age, that would be a rare event. it is in most views just very impracticable even. and the reality is just very different. 

so that there was then a chance to find that child victim still alive, or now so many years later, in combination with that pedo abductor is just not a realistic outcome. and it is something we like not even to thing of at all, but in that scenario it is not realistic.

if they had gone from, our child, madeleine is missing, we do not know what has happened to her, we still have to hope for a slight chance she still could be out there. so please look for her. 

it is not there had been no other scenario's offered to them, the parents, or parent who wanted to replace a child of their own, or who just wanted a little girl as a daughter, is always been on the table. 
the at the time almost take that on too, but from zero hour they kept it to that pedo abductor. 

and do not think parents who replace a child of their own with another, are often that successful in bringing it up, many stories about that tell of broken marriages, and a lot of foster care, and foster care has very little very happily living after children. so do not start to think that would be a save solution to keep the dirty lines out of your head. 

and another thing, the gnr and the pj never looked only into the parents at all. but if they as they did, their research, forensics and technical research, and it is clear that window and shutter can not have been used, why would you keep looking at that. it does not matter if it is early or late, if the answer to a theoretical option is no, and zero chance, is is a dead end. 

and there are many others, the murat hussle, was there, the eef hoos crematorium saga, and many others, some as a group like the gypsy's, de tapas 9. many many sightings, the abroad ones had to be looked in by local police forces there, they did a lot around the portuguese sightings. but the sun got it the total amount of sightings of a possible sighting well above 8500. most early ones have gotten attention in the files during the first part of investigation. even the sergei guy was looked in. but if there is nothing that could link it to the case of madeleine, you can not expect to keep following that up. no, or not possible will end such a line. 

and many probably never even made it to the files, because of the local knowledge of the gnr. so a lot is just handled under informal procedure, the goal is solving a case, not breaking a record in meters in the archives. 
but it is the stuff a public never will hear about, it does not mean it was not done. 
you can pick such items up a lot in books about well known cases, often written by a old officer on a case, or a true investigating journalist. or in or modern times, a longer interview or podcast. 

the other problem is all the mingling feet and voices i this case. much more than any other i ever heard of. 
not on the side of the public, that is common in almost all cases that grab the attention. and before social media we would have said a lot just in our own home, at work during a coffee break, or to the neighbours, but as they are also on social media too, it is just replaced to there. but only there is a grater bunch to disagree to your opinions. 

most interference is still there, because the question of why did you do that, what made you think that was okay is never asked. and if we have only gaps, every different way you fill it by most likely or just snippets that could maye fit it still give no real answers at all. 
and uit does not help that there is enough media witch took a stake in the story but they are very flimsy in asking real questions. the just fill gaps with the crap of the week, so it only ends up in confusion. 

and it is easier to think of something bad, than just the stupidity to mingle in a case, you also have no clue about. politicians are famous for it. and it is often much more about what they can hide with it on their own topics, than the topic at hand. and proving they had a role before may 3 2007, is still not to prove. it is not at  a distance that could help with getting that more clear. 

also there are a lot of names, i would see as part of the old boys networks that could also have a stake in mark warner or related companies. and even other stakes in the algarve - uk angle. i never got it around beyond it could be, but that never looks to be the only fitting reason. 

but there are a lot of strange connections in this case, and even worse a lot of strange people, but still maybe they are just that. and wasn't confusion something good, one of the slip upps i think we have to look for too mitchell. 

because if you want to find your daughter and want the help of every pair of available eyes, you never want confusion, you would not send these out with a quiz to solve before they can start looking. clear information is the only tool to do that efficiently. confusion is only nice if you want to hide something.
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Post by Verdi 23.11.23 12:25

Families in my experience are a rare breed, loyalty and disparity never go hand in hand - no telling reactions in the event of tragedy. There is a tendency to close ranks no matter what.

A bloke I knew through work was sexually abusing his young daughter (4 years old when it came to light). Apparently his wife and mother knew what was going on but kept quiet - for reasons best known to themselves.

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Post by Guest 29.11.23 14:56

what made me wanted to look to all about this case again, is the result of looking to the work of the dogs. 

a lot of theories that exclude the thursday evening from likely day zero was the dogs, because eddy trained to find human cadaver scent , had need a body in situ for quite some time, some agree on an hour, others go for a minimum of 90 minutes.

and i always found that a pretty strong point in it. and simply more times opens up opportunities to work out an escape plan of the situation.

i started to look through a lot fresher information, i still have a few subscriptions to forensic journals and some are free to use, and others can be obtained by some alternative routes.

on decomposition times of a full body in situ was not really anything remarkable done, or had information to give a better minimum amount of time. 

and what i had was two dogs, only one was trained to a very high standard in searching for human remains, that was eddy. by rereading the pieces of martin grimes, the evidence collected by the pj in locations in 5a and the renault car. i could conclude that eddy was trained and able to find not only complete bodies, but actually all human decomposed remains, including blood.

that blood is often used even to tell sloppy dog and trainer stories on twitter. 

but blood itself belong to human remains too, and the second fact is, blood does decompose too.
the third eddy is also trained on decomposing blood. 

if you take a look in the files about what they found in the second forensic investigation, which took place after the dogs signaled, they found on the alert spot was hard baked tiles with grout in between, in the grout and under the tiles they found possible human blood. i say possible because such findings are hardly still accepted as only identified on the eyesight of an officer, but still the officers called it blood. 
going by experience if one of my own team would say to me during an investigating we found something that looks like blood, i would put that to a test too, at the time the first conclusion was blood, not only portuguese police offers had been present, they had instruction from the uk during the process of taking the samples. 

the tiles have been lifted, the grout taken together and they took also samples, all was send to the fss lab in the uk, sadly that lab just say we can not tell you where the dna is from by origin, and did go ahead with their lcn-dna testing. that was not something i ever have experienced, you just send samples with a list of questions and usually a senior scientist of the lab will assist you, by pointing out of the samples could be used to give you your answer, and if they can not do it by their lab, they are always been able to advise another lab who could do the needed testing. 

also it is very uncommon to use a full sample stick for testing, most testing just use a part of it, 1/4 or 1/3 is very common, so if a test set up does not work out, or there arise questions later you have still something to redo a test. 

it is also a standard that an extern lab does not very often will communicate with a police officer, usually it is expert to expert communication so between the external lab and the inbound forensic services, because nothing is easy or simple to explain, and extern labs are often more specialist and lack te time to explain until you get it. 
also usually you work for many years with the same teams of people, so your own service knows your level of understanding, and that will save a lot of time. 

nothoing of above ever happened in this case at all. no, we can not do that, and later on asking if what they could not test could be thrown out. 

there is only rumour how much of we 'we can not do stuff' is left behind at all, or how it is kept, and i do hope it is all still there.

but i started looking to the materials they took and the grout is of a porous structure, the samples from that area that have been tested agree on a human origin, but not typed beyond human celulair material with a incomplete and mixed result in dna. 

the same can be said of the inner parts of the car, where blood, or other decomposition fluids could have been left behind.

there is much work done about how you can store samples of any kind of human decomposition materials , to be used as a training aid for the service dogs. nor the guys who train these dogs, nor the scientist are to be called lazy or easy going, they are always in favour of better themselves, they work together to get in just better results. it are actual dogs who already are active in the field of crime scenes and possible crime scenes, so no half trained lab animals with second best trainers, no just the real deal. 

the only sentence that is still a kind of mantra is, these bl.ody dogs are always better than us and what we can make and do. only in a lot more sophisticated manner.

all dogs of martin grime and himself have futures in many parts of this kind of research. the trouble that gives is the quality of these dogs, they are very, very good. they have proven themselves in the research field and in working crime scenes.

so even if there only be kept marginal samples behind, the chance to find them is way above average. 

a lot of work is already done on all kinds of material that was also porous, not specific grout, but porous material can store decomposition fluids, many of the material that is used in training aids for the dogs is even of a porous nature. 
where keela, the 'blood dog'was trained to find blood that once was a fresh deposit of blood that dried in situ. eddy was trained also on that at the start of his traing, but was later on because of talent also trained on all and everything you can name of a human body and that can decompose. 

the proces of decomposition asks at least for, any kind of vast of fluid human material that is no longer part of a living human and all contact to keep that alive. the other important thing is moisture content. because the break down what decomposition is, is partly by chemical reaction and eating and digesting it by bacteria, there is a minimum amount of moisture needed. almost all bacteria can not be alive when moisture content becomes less than 20%. air is lees a problem, because of the very different bacteria and chemical processes each just ask their own access to things like oxygen. some have just very little need for that. 

and we do still have no complete knowledge how exactly all these processes take place, and it is understood, we not even have knowledge of all the kind of new combinations that are made during decomposition. 
we are long gone from the popular cadaverine. this lack in knowledge is also what it makes it almost impossible to make use of artificial scent of death, and we have still no insight in what the dogs react to, other than the scents of in situ dried blood, for keela, or the scents of death eddy react to. 

my reading up resulted in my conclusion, that even when like in this case there was no longer a body present, the blood that transferred into cavities in the porous material, still would decompose and was what stayed behind, but it lost for me the availability that a body had been present for an amount of time, because the blood could very well fill the gap, even if the body was gone in 5 minutes, the blood that got in the porous grout, and it did, because relics of blood was found even under them. could in itself got all the time needed to decompose. 

we do not know how minimal a dose of the voc's eddy his nose needed. cleaning of the surface could even restarted each time another round of decomposition, because moisture could access the same porous material, so even when the surface was cleaned, and the kind of cleaning was by standard optical quality level by the standards of the ocean club house keeping services. 

so i can not longer take a body in situ for a minimal amount of time before decomposition can decontaminate the surrounding area. the blood in between the ground never left 5a before the dogs alerted and the tiles have been taken up. so what once for me at least was the strongest point to make a event on that thursday evening possible lost its strength. 

is it prove it happened that evening, no, it is not. 

kate her question how a body that was there only for a short time could lead to a dog as eddy alerting to it, could very well have been because the body did not stay, but the blood did. 
taking in mind the proven quality of eddy and his results, and yes his results do have been put to the test in the lab too. it was eddy 's nose who just wrecked one of the very promising artificial noses. 
and eddy made a mess of the artificial stinkies too.

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Additionally, the three formulations were tested in outdoor and indoor scenarios by a double-blinded canine team, using a certified and specifically trained victim recovery canine with multiple confirmed recoveries, to determine if the formulations would be recognized by that canine as being related to human decomposition. The canine used in this study did not provide a positive response to any of the formulations tested in either test scenario. 

martin grime is a named author. and eddy made in this piece 5 years of work through the drain. 
he only barks for the real deal. this article was published in 2014, their reputation was still intact. 

so yes, for me is this something why i want to look again over all and everything. just because another little piece of stone got turned. there was some of the human remains left behind, and there was a very good quality dog that puts his nose in. i can not simply throw that out. and i never do preferent points in time, i like the complete story out. i can not claim a result to it, but it deserves a look.
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Post by Guest 29.11.23 20:11

this link is to an article , more a review in not to scientific language, still difficult enough if you are not used to is, about where we are standing around decomposition, the scent of death, all kind of stages and parts, and the work of dogs with it.

it was published september this year and has open access on pub med;

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it has no nasty pictures or endless list of difficult names. it is written pretty decent. 

of course the work done in 2007 is difficult to replicate, time is a factor in this line of work. but there is so much more known now. and it is there to be used. the abilities of a well trained dog are not changed, they always could do it, only we are just starting to learn what they can smell, and what a human body can leave behind in smell. still we are not fully able to find out what a dog smells at a specific moment, but they proved themselves by results and in the research settings over and over again.
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Post by crusader 06.12.23 16:17

I was watching a video last night on youtube by Peter Scharrenburg,
Madeleine McCann the safe house part 4.
I haven't heard this version before.
It's about a Portuguese doctor who works in UK hospitals and has a house in Praia da Luz, it won't let me post the video here.

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I don't know if it's been discussed here before, it's an interesting theory.
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Post by Verdi 06.12.23 16:29

He's another Dutch 'investigative journalist' capitalizing on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann..

The Truth Is Out There: Madeleine


Peter Scharrenberg

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2nd BOOK ABOUT THIS CASE 'The Shadow Investigation' OUT NOW! Dutch investigative journalist Peter Scharrenberg found two witnesses who told quite a different story than Gerry McCann did about his presence in the tapasbar on the evening of May 3rd 2007. In fact they said that he was gone for 30 minutes. Nobody knows what he did during that crucial period. Except for an Irish family, who believe they saw him downtown carrying a little blond girl. Read all about this and about the statements of the tapas-9, the forensic results, the lies, the strange behaviour of the parents, the Madeleine fund, the false timeline and the Portugese and British police investigation. Read also about a frustrated catholic priest, a retired businessman, a dishonest key witness, an impossible burglary and the mysterious pool picture. Make up your own mind about what happened to Madeleine on that dramatic evening in May 2007.

Madeleine: The Shadow Investigation Paperback – 27 April 2019

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Dutch investigative journalist Peter Scharrenberg studied the Portuguese police files and subsequently did his own investigations in Praia da Luz and in other parts of the Algarve. His first book about the case 'The Truth Is Out There' was very successful, clarifying the facts of the case for readers who had so far only heard about it from the main stream media. It also revealed that two crucial witnesses were completely overlooked by the police. Now, exactly 12 years after Madeleine's disappearance the author is back with a second book about the case, which contains pivotal information that is not discussed ever before. This new and very revealing book, 'The Shadow Investigation', is a must-read for everyone who wants to know what happened to Madeleine McCann during that fateful holiday in May 2007 in Praia da Luz. The publisher.

Like the work of Nick van der Leek, memory tells me this book was also removed from the forum by admin because it was considered to be rubbish - my words.

Something niggling the back of my mind tells me Leek and Scharrenberg are one and the same - but don't quote me, it's a niggle that would require close examination, not by me.

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Post by crusader 06.12.23 16:34

The video definately makes you think though.
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Post by Verdi 06.12.23 16:43

crusader wrote:The video definately makes you think though.

Sorry, I'm having trouble posting.

See if this works for you - and anyone else with an interest..



Click on watch on YouTube, it should work.

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Post by crusader 06.12.23 16:54

That's what happened when I tried to post it.Thank's Verdi.
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Post by Guest 06.12.23 19:44

the are not the same person, but there is also not a known dutch journalist or reporter with that name at all, nick van de leek is south african based. the others is dutch. and most likely a member of the forum too. just a very silent one. 

there are very well known members with the same surname, very active in writing and formerly in the true crime scene. 

and i never fell for the idea they had no netwerk available at all. the poor only mccanns, all alone out there.
and it probably had not matter if a body was found early on, as long as it was outside 5a and not in connection to the mccanns, it could have nicely fitted in the narration of the abductor who did it all. 

until around 11 that evening it always have been the mccanns who owned the narrative and timeline. and as everyone was looking for a lost, but very much alive child, what easily results in looking only for opportunities a child has, so closed of properties could easily be used to keep a body hidden for a time. 

and they had quite a network, the paynes through family in more northern parts of portugal. that line was used to get them the next day non to their names registered phones, handed on the stairs of the police station in portimao.

but they called so many people the first days, all they needed was only one who could arrange or suggest a available holiday let, like for use for the family, or if they wanted some hours to escape the media attention. 
people do not have to be in the know, it is the kind of help people do give. often there is simply a keyu hidden on the property, or a care taker will leave a key for grabs. certainly in early or late season, there is hardly much communication needed, most houses we rented in multiple countries outside high season, the door would just be open, with a little note and some keys on the table. 

the same possibility could have been used by just booking by phone or even the internet by family, or friends. they had not to leave the uk for that. late minute booking is very common. and there is usually not even that much checking in who you are. booking from a company is very easy too. a short golf trip would not be a strange event at all. 

they already had made it to the right circle of people, so the connections would be already available. and they had no need to explain much. in the first days most would just been willing to help in any way they could. 

before schengen all was very different, most tourist areas had still an obligation to keep a register and handed your information and even passport numbers or copies as soon as possible to the local police or council. after that you could certainly outside high season, for one or two weeks travel complete anonymus as long you choose only b&b or campings, i rented many simple so called huts when the wetter was bad, without any one asking for names or to register information, just pay with cash and on you go. 

and there is a lot of investment from abroad in holiday lets, often people take a few weeks in summer, some not even that. 

this doctor story has still no direct ties to the mccan's or the tapas 7, but there could have been even multiple people they could just choose one that suited them best. high season would most years only have started from july on. 

after they got the pre paid portuguese phones it also would mean, they could no longer be traced to that, leave your own at the usual address. they kept all about it very vague. and if a phone is available so eurly a car would even been easier. sandy and trish had a helpful friend with a car for getting from the airport to praia da luz. 

and you do not even have a connection in person, our car broke down once in norway, there was hardly anything, all i had to do to get the right element to fix it, was calling a friend who is in sales all over the world, half an hour later i had found a repairman, a garage we could use and the stuff was send by a carrier. 
so it is very easy to use connections in people who just know of others, and want to be of help. 
so with a bit of luck and others that want to vouch for you, you hardly ever be alone out there. 

and they both had connections, it comes with the job, and well before, from their uni days and school days too. gerry played golf in rotley. both would have had even patients, they had lived outside the uk, in new zealand and the netherlands. been to conferences. 

and it does not mean helping people are also in the know, it is really underestimated how many people do help others without ever asking why they need it. and in this case most just walked in the poor parents hype, and most likely just start offering help. even if they get it in their minds to start to think about things that could be fishy, most will just keep their mouth shut, people who got duped are usually more into distancing because of shame, than starting talking. 

and even when the statistics do tell young children until school ages are most times a victim of parents, carers or people they do know and trust, it is not what people want to hear, or want to think about. 
and that makes it very difficult to get it known to an investigation. it do not have to be direct connections at all. 

the information about people been seen at a late hour near the church, being seen somewhere by a unknown appartement most likely are out there by locals, but still no direct line. maybe only half a story heard somewhere, and someone wanted to let that be known. and that is most times the only way to get your hands on it. and the first investigation did not get the needed permission to track and tail the mccann's. 
so if it indeed was about relevant people around this case, they still only could guess if it also had a meaning at all.
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Post by crusader 07.12.23 10:26

Has anyone had the opportunity to look at this video?

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I'd be interested in any comments.
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Post by CaKeLoveR 07.12.23 12:17

I'm surprised that this hasn't appeared anywhere else, the subject of Madeleine still being important, especially  as the pro McCann's could jump on it. It would be a huge risk storing a body in the professor's house; he could return at any moment. His relatives in Portugal could have keys, to make checks on it. I don't believe that if Smith/Tanner/egg man was carrying a child, he would do so with her face on display; surely it would tucked against his shoulder?
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Post by crusader 07.12.23 12:30

Aoife Smith said the girls head was lying against the individuals left shoulder.
Martin and Peter Smith both said the girls eyes were closed.
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Post by Verdi 09.12.23 13:24

Considering the prevailing stance of the British press and media, filtering through similar voices across Europe and beyond .... 'it's the fault of the Portuguese judiciary, they are the reason the beast that snatched the tot has never been prosecuted'. You know the form, the same bungling sardine munchers who failed to secure the already contaminated crime scene - already contaminated by the parents McCann, their group of friends, Ocean Club staff and anyone else with a free pass.

Combing through the files, I despaired. It was only now that I became aware of just how cursory some of the police work had been. Vital questions had not been asked, alibis not verified, lines of inquiry left dangling or, at best, not adequately documented. There is no doubt that the police were overwhelmed, both by having to deal with a crime of this nature under such scrutiny and by the sheer volume of information pouring in.

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

How would she know?


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Post by crusader 09.12.23 13:27

The police asked her vital questions and she refused to answer.
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Post by Verdi 09.12.23 13:47

I reckon it was she who was overwhelmed.

How can you possibly obtain a copy of the PJ files, have it translated in entirety (so say she), speed read and then decide for yourself what vital questions weren't asked;  what alibis were not verified;  what lines of inquiry were left dangling;  what was not adequately documented?

That's the exact position we, as outside observers of the case, are in - we just don't know the detail.

It's not how the police work, apart from anything else they are not obliged to reveal anything to the public unless they have good reason so to do.

That's what makes a mockery of the social media non-entity who did or does refer to herself as The Queen of Portugal but living in Calif-or-nia.  She who repeatedly claims to have obtained inside information by dropping-in various official establishments here there and everywhere and being given confidential case information over a chat.

Danger is, people listen!

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Post by crusader 09.12.23 15:26

The McCann's did get to question witnesses in some of the rogatory interviews.
They stated who should be interviewed and what questions should be asked.
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