Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Hello, everyone! My name is Thomas Henry Horan, from Saint Louis MO USA. I am a professor, author, part-time private investigator/consultant, and executive producer and host of The Stones Unturned Podcast.

I have experience reviewing police investigations for insurance companies and other interested parties, as well as conducting investigations, into everything from fraud and cybercrime to homicide. Our listeners have been asking us to begin covering the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I am particularly interested, because we the public now have access to most of the police files, lab reports, etc. This makes it possible for me to throw in my two cents' worth concerning questions like, "What should the police have done/not done? Does it look like there has been a coverup? Do there appear to be any 'unturned stones' worth looking under?" And so on.

As newbie here, I will look for the appropriate thread, but in the mean time, does anyone know if "we" have access to the local police reports from the NIGHT the disappearance was first reported? What I mean is, we have access to the witness statements from the NEXT DAY and thenceforward, but I don't see any of the reports made by the responding officers the night of May 3. Things like, "HH:MM received call from person identifying himself as __________ wishing to report that a Mrs McCann reports her child missing from her holiday apartment." Or reports stating "XX:HH reporting officer, along with Constable _________, conducted a thorough search of the interior of Apartment XXX..." See what I mean?

Thanks in advance!

Tom

Goodness - what an asset! A very hearty stonesuntured - a very appropriate user name under the circumstances if I might say

The easiest way around this I can see is for you to read the relevant GNR and PJ officer translated statements contained in the files released into the public domain in the summer of 2008.

Go to this link and scroll down to 'GNR investigators' and the further down to 'Policia Judiciara investigators'..

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I don't know if you've studied the PJ files, if not be warned, they are extensive and very repetitive which leads to so much confusion and misinterpretation as to finer detail - some might even say 'lost in translation'. It's all here for your information..

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Let us know how you get on.

Welcome stonesuntured. Good to have you here!

Might I also suggest you read this free e-book written by a retired Police Superintendent:

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Thanks, everyone! First, let me point out that I don't normally take a [public] interest in any missing persons "cases." Professionally, I consider such cases very private. Let's say, for example, that Maddie is found alive and living more or less happily with a new family. Then what? Believe me, I've never seen a "happy" ending in such cases. But I wouldn't even call the Madeleine McCann story a "case." It's nothing more than a report of a missing child. Beyond that, I don't see a "case." (By contrast, there is very definitely an unsolved homicide case in the absolutely confirmed death of JonBenet Ramsey.) On the other hand, it's certainly an over-hyped story, and the McCanns themselves have done as much hyping as anyone. So, my interest is limited to: 1. A story to cover on our podcast, 2. specifically, was the "investigation" bungled by Portugese police? Interfered with by the McCanns, or Scotland Yard, or Portugese politicians, or wealthy British expats, or whomever? 3. What lessons can we learn from examining, so far as possible, the actual police files? (By contrast, we don't have access to the Ramsey files, for the most part.) 4. I do believe in the value of the Internet crowd-sourced supplementary investigation whatsit. So, can I/we see any "unturned stones" that might be worth following up by said Internet crowd? 5. If anyone here thinks they are pretty familiar with these files and would enjoy chatting about them with me on our podcast, please let me know!

Thanks again!

Tom :-)

Hello again stonesunturned. Indeed it is an honour that you chose to join CMoMM to further your knowledge of the case - you couldn't have stumbled upon a better forum for depth of knowledge, research and analysis into the disappearance of little Madeleine McCann.

I am however a trifle perplexed as to how you see your project developing through the auspices of this forum. When you have the opportunity to browse through the many categories and get an idea of how the forum has progressed over the years, you will have a better understanding of how difficult - even impossible, it is to condense the case (I will refer to it as such as that is how I see it) into a generalized format - a case study so to speak.

What or who is your target audience?

There are a quite a few members and associates of CMoMM with a broad knowledge of this case, not only the PJ files but also the machinations that surround the apparent conspiracy, researched by a dedicated group of volunteers over the past eleven years, whether or not they would be prepared to contribute to your podcast, I can't say.

Do you see how difficult it would be to present a comprehensive overview that includes every aspect of the case? Unless your idea is to concentrate on specific areas. For example, if you wish to identify possible failings in the Portuguese policing, you need first to recognize and research the high powered interference from the UK, prevalent from the very beginning - how can anyone safely say that the PJ were ineffectual when they were prevented from doing their job - i.e. investigating the disappearance of a three year old little girl?

If you are really serious about this, I can only see one way forward apart from studying the content of the forum (time consuming beyond doubt) - give us a better understanding of your overall intention, possibly with a title and we can initiate a thread dedicated to your project, then see how it progresses. I will just add, no doubt many members will feel this has all been said and done before, so if there is limited impact don't be surprised but as I've already said, it's all here on CMoMM !

Look forward to hearing from you again.

For reference

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In my experience, once a situation like this (whether a murder or a missing child) hits the media, that's it. Nothing anybody "remembers" after that is usually worth much. Madeleine's disappearance becomes GLOBAL media SENSATION beginning within what, 24 hours? Less? So, I'm only interested in the first 24 hours. Every whisper, rumour, lie, you name it, that came to light after that has been hashed ad infinitum with zero result (as far as finding Madeleine or her remains). So, I don't see much reason going over it one time. On the other hand, I have noticed so far that even Richard D Hall hasn't said much about those very first police reports, etc. Sooooooo, I'm looking at the first 24 hours. 

1. We're talking about small town constables in a poor country. They're trained to keep drunk tourists from smashing too many windows or trampling too many flowers. So, unfortunately, we don't have the kinds of detailed, competent reports one might find in connection with a murder in Manhattan. That's a problem, but it's also not a problem, as we shall see. 2. The McCanns and their friends spoke no Portugese. So, ALL interactions with police required interpreters, and all available interpreters were pure amateurs, not experienced police interpreters. So, even fluent Portugese speakers need to take all those statements with a grain of salt. 3. I've noticed that most of the "witnesses" and others gave the Daily Mail in particular stories that differed wildly from the statements they gave police. Or, worse, the Mail simply fabricated a lot of it. I suggest ignoring those completely. 4. Clearly, the McCanns were hypersensitive to all hints of criticism and quickly became obsessed with not having the twins taken from them by authorities. Gerald in particular is a laughably unlikeable person, and Kate comes across as vain and brittle at best. I live in the States, and "we" REALLY disapprove of the kind of "normal" upper class and upper middle class British habit of parenting by remote control. So, the McCanns and their "friends" have done a lot to make themselves look guilty. That's not the same thing as being guilty. 5. I need to go over it all again, but so far, I've noticed a familiar pattern in these kinds of high-profile "mysteries:" No two witnesses told the same story, and not one single witness ever told the same story twice. 6. To this day, there is no body, and there was no security camera image or video of Maddie after the reported time of her disappearance. Period. So, the first question is, "HOW did Madeleine, dead or alive, EXIT the resort?" Did she wander off? Was she carried off? That's it. One or the other. Unless you believe in aliens. 7. Again, if this question wasn't answered in the first 24 hours, it wasn't answered later. 

So--I'm looking at NOTHING but the available police reports, photos, etc from the first 24 hours. I'm looking for A: Anything a fully trained and competent police force "would" have done, but wasn't done. B. I'm also looking for anything "interesting" that may have been forgotten or overlooked, usually because someone formed a premature "theory" or pursued an unjustified "hunch" and just never went back to square one.

It's early, but so far, I've noticed what appears to be one of each of the above "unturned stones." 

Now, in addition to all that, I strongly caution people that all the "documentaries" and books I've seen seem to make the old reliable mistake: They've started with a conclusion (like, Kate gave the kids a sedative and Madeleine smothered in her blankets and they dumped the body later) and then they try to prove what they already believe. That's the surest method for failing to solve a "mystery." So, FWIW, I'm starting over and completely ignoring (at least for now) anything and everything that was said, done, reported, and claimed after the first 24 hours. Just like none of that ever happened.

Once I think I have a good understanding of that material, then I'll possibly start working backward over the previous 30 days. NOT the subsequent 30 days. Everyone's done that to death already. No results. And by results, I mean, Madeleine, or her remains. Not theories. Not rumours. Madeleine, or her remains.

So, if anyone would like to chat about those first 24 hours, that would be great!

Hello Tom

I don't know if you've read Gonçalo Amaral's book? You may probably already know that he was the Co-ordinator of the investigation until he was removed at the request of UK Chancellor Gordon Brown. 

You can read the English translation here on this forum [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Chapter 3 is where Amaral starts to detail the night of Thursday 3rd May

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This link details the British Foreign Office timeline:

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I'm not a researcher on this forum but a long time reader and commenter. There are others here who will be able to give you a much more detailed answer, but just off the top of my head, to answer your numbered points-
1. I'm not sure how much you've read already, but you seem to be starting with an assumption that the Portuguese police are incompetent, or unable to cope with serious crime. I haven't seen any evidence of this in the case of Madeleine, aside from them perhaps being a little naive and not immediately discounting the parents explanation of an 'abduction' and therefore immediately sealing off the room as a crime scene. I'm not sure when exactly it was done, but it wasn't done straightaway.
2. The problem with the initial statements taken, particularly from Gerry and Kate, is that they contradict themselves so many times. I don't believe it's a translation issue, I can't see how an interpreter would mistake doors being unlocked for locked. The original story was that the doors to the apartment were locked. This very quickly changed to unlocked when it became apparent that the 'jemmied shutters' story was unworkable, due to it being impossible to open the window from the outside. So, rather than a translation issue, I think it's pretty beyond doubt that the parents changed their story multiple times. If they were misrepresented in any way in those files, I have no doubt they'd be the first to sue and demand they be removed from the internet. They have never done so, nor to my knowledge have they ever commented on the quality of the translation, in say the way Amanda Knox has regarding her trial.
3. Agreed, completely ignore the mail or any other papers.
4. I'm not sure the parents were obsessed with the thought of any of their children being taken away. There are numerous examples in the first 24 hours of them leaving the twins with others! Even Kate, when she 'realised Madeleine was gone' left the twins alone to go and shout what had happened. Not what you would expect a parent to do. Not only that, it occurred after the first 24 hours but the parents even made Madeleine a ward of court, so that even if she was found alive now, she would not immediately be returned to them. They no longer have custody over Madeleine by their own choice, a British court does. I can assure you that this behaviour of the McCanns is NOT considered normal by British people.
Points 5-7 - well, that is the big question. In terms of the first 24 hours, there is very little evidence of what happened to her. The police initially believed the parents and treated it as an abduction, using police officers and I believe tracking dogs to try and locate her. Mark Warner staff searched, the parents did not. I believe they just sat, again quite unusual  behaviour. There was much emphasis in  the first 24 hours, by the parents, on an abductor. Kate insisted Madeleine had been taken out through the window, and is believed to have said 'they've taken her' when she raised the alarm. Again, quite an odd statement to make. When an upstairs neighbour enquired of Gerry what was happening, he replied 'a little girl has been taken' not 'my daughter' . Again, quite odd.
But in terms of hard evidence, there isn't much from the first 24 hours, hence the enduring mystery. Once the police realised they weren't dealing with an abduction, obviously the cadaver dogs and blood dogs produced new indications. I'm sure you're already familiar with those facts. I find the case impossible to understand unless I look beyond those first  24 hours I'm afraid.

Well, at least if you don't look beyond the first 24 hours, it becomes a missing person's case of a little girl who seemingly vanished without trace. No evidence of a break in, no evidence of an abduction, discredited witnesses (friend of the parents) claiming they saw a man with a child when they didn't, and the children immediately prior to this having been left to fend for themselves, according to the parents. Logically and statistically there's only one really likely explanation.

Professor Tom Horan wrote:So--I'm looking at NOTHING but the available police reports, photos, etc from the first 24 hours. I'm looking for A: Anything a fully trained and competent police force "would" have done, but wasn't done. B. I'm also looking for anything "interesting" that may have been forgotten or overlooked, usually because someone formed a premature "theory" or pursued an unjustified "hunch" and just never went back to square one.

It's early, but so far, I've noticed what appears to be one of each of the above "unturned stones." 

Now, in addition to all that, I strongly caution people that all the "documentaries" and books I've seen seem to make the old reliable mistake: They've started with a conclusion (like, Kate gave the kids a sedative and Madeleine smothered in her blankets and they dumped the body later) and then they try to prove what they already believe. That's the surest method for failing to solve a "mystery." So, FWIW, I'm starting over and completely ignoring (at least for now) anything and everything that was said, done, reported, and claimed after the first 24 hours. Just like none of that ever happened.

Again I advise you to browse the forum before judging the mode of research and analysis of the case of missing Madeleine McCann, in particular by members of this forum past and present. 

Naturally, there has been (and still is) many a theory presented that might be viewed as 'premature theory' and/or 'unjustified hunch' but you will find this stems from the simple fact that conclusive evidence and intelligence are absent - face it, if not for the Portuguese secrecy law in place at the time of Madeleine's disappearance and their policy of publishing investigation detail for public perusal after a case is closed, the general public would be none the wiser, any more than if the crime were committed on home soil. Theories and hunches have come, been robustly contested and gone again, until the next time they resurface - which they will for good and bad reasons.

In short, what you have is 'The McCann Story' !  The McCann faction has been in control of this case from the very beginning, that includes misleading the public through the media, personally I don't believe a thing I read in the papers but many people do - or at least are guided by what they read.  Sometimes it's easier than thinking for yourself.

Start with a base knowledge, the first 24 hours, then expand your view to the ensuing hours/days/months and see how it evolves.  Base knowledge. i.e. witness statements, GNR/PJ statements and working documents, photographs, sightings, psychic visions etc. can all be located at the link I previously provided..

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YouTube is awash with useful videos connected to Madeleine McCann's disappearance.  I find these most useful as interviews with the McCann couple, their adherents and family are so much more telling than newspaper reports.

If you need any assistance finding a particular document, just say the word - we are here to help in any way we can.

CMoMM contains a wealth of knowledge, research, analysis and discussion on this case but as with the PJ files, navigation can be a bit daunting if you're looking to present a case study.  Beware of false leads.

Also false dates.

What is your purpose on this forum

Welcome, Thomas Horan.  I'm interested in what you have to say.

I don't have a "purpose" on this forum. I'm just looking for all the available (English translations) of the original PJ reports, with a focus on the first 24 hours. That's it. If anyone on this forum would like to chat about those first 24 hours on our podcast, please let me know. I don't have a "theory," I don't care about the media's or other people's theories, and I'm not interested in "solving" this case. I'm only interested in reviewing the first 24 hours or so of the investigation and what could/should have been done better or differently by police. That's all. The McCanns have accused the PJ of jumping to conclusions and then persecuting them. Some people have accused the PJ of covering up for some guilty party, some have accused them of covering up their own incompetence, some agree with the McCanns. Some people accuse the McCanns and their friends of lying to police to cover some sort of crime the McCanns may have committed. Some people accuse the McCanns of being part of some international pedo ring, some accuse the PJ of covering up for some international pedo ring. I'm interested in how the PJ handled the first 24 hours of the inquiry. That's all. 

I have noticed, from what I've read so far, that the PJ did not document their activities terribly well. For starters, I've never seen a report along the lines of "HH:MM received telephone call from person identifying himself as _________ of Praia da Luz Resort reporting a missing child. Unit ________ was dispatched from ________ station to to resort to investigate." Or whatever. I don't see any of that. 

For another thing, I can't find any clear indication of just exactly who ACTUALLY called the PJ, and when. All I see so far is two statements given to detectives (not typed first-hand) by two constables in the same car who say they heard the first radio dispatch at 10:40pm, and then another radio dispatch at 10:45pm that caused them to finally proceed directly to the resort as quickly as possible. They understood that the father of the child had called PJ from the reception area. They stated they contacted Gerald at the reception area, accompanied by interpreter Sylvia Batista. And so on. Is that about right? 

Oh, sure, lots of people claimed LATER that "____________ happened that night..." For example, later the next morning, one of the other moms (Jane?) stated to detectives that SHE proceeded directly to the reception area to call police at 10:15pm. But I don't see a PJ report of THAT phone call. There is a statement made FIVE DAYS LATER on May 9 by a reception employee Helder Jorge Samaio Luis that HE called police, BEFORE 10:00pm. But I don't see a PJ report of THAT phone call. PJ only report receiving a phone call from Gerald, possibly actually made by Batista, at 10:40pm. None of the Tapas 7 spoke Portugese, so SOMEONE had a bilingual employee of the resort call police. Right? Who called? When? What exactly did they report at first? Or, more importantly, what information, EXACTLY, did police have (or think they had) before the arrived at the scene? See what I mean? 

Detective Amaral says in his "book" that he very quickly concluded that the McCanns were lying about things like locking the front door, within the first five minutes of his investigation, BUT I don't see any actual REPORT by him mentioning any such questions and answers before detectives started taking statements later next morning. Etc. Detective ROQUE goes out of his way to mention in his first report that he found the McCann's behavior to be a little suspicious. But NO actual report by AMARAL. See what I mean? That's a typical example of why, as a rule of thumb, I just ignore ALL claims made by people weeks and months and years after events, and stick to actual reports made at the actual time--IF they exist, and IF I can get them.

I do see a disturbing pattern (maybe it's a translation problem) of constables and detectives repeatedly reporting that they "think" ________ said X, or did Y. Indicating that maybe they didn't pay very careful attention, or didn't take very good notes, or maybe didn't take any notes at all. Further, there are these repeated statements, even by detectives, that "he [officer] did not find anything strange" or "he [officer] noticed a situation that seemed unusual to him." That would, if translated accurately, suggest exactly the kind of "conclusion jumping" frame of mind that can often lead investigators chasing hunches down blind alleys from which they forget to backtrack. 

Again, I'm only just now getting into this material. So, any information about any actual reports (preferably in English) from those first 24 hours, that would be greatly appreciated. If anyone feels up to chatting about those reports on our podcast sometime, that would be great, too :-)

Professor Tom Horan wrote:So, any information about any actual reports (preferably in English) from those first 24 hours, that would be greatly appreciated. If anyone feels up to chatting about those reports on our podcast sometime, that would be great, too....

With such a limited field of vision, I doubt you will find any information outside the published PJ files.  The link to which has already been provided.  If that fails to satisfy your personal expectations of policing correctness, then I guess your project falls on stony ground.

I think it unlikely you will find a useful volunteer to participate in your podcast with such restricted criteria.  It could only be opinion which is clearly something of no interest to you.

I wish you luck with you venture.

Sharonl - as he’s stated numerous times, he’s only interested in the first 24 hours so your directions are not what he requires. Then, if he has enough useable material, he’ll start to go BACK over the previous 30 days - that should cover the initial booking (allegedly by DP) and flights (from various airports). Or maybe the parents relationships with their children etc. Good luck with that.

Tom, as Verdi stated above, I personally feel that you’ll find scant information with which to pursue your narrow remit. It is precisely the numerous conflicting evidence and overall obfuscation that has dogged this case for the last 11 years.

I wish you luck and I mean that sincerely

Professor Horan wrote: I am particularly interested, because we the public now have access to most of the police files, lab reports, etc. This makes it possible for me to throw in my two cents' worth concerning questions like, "What should the police have done/not done? Does it look like there has been a coverup? Do there appear to be any 'unturned stones' worth looking under?" And so on.

As newbie here, I will look for the appropriate thread, but in the mean time, does anyone know if "we" have access to the local police reports from the NIGHT the disappearance was first reported? What I mean is, we have access to the witness statements from the NEXT DAY and thenceforward, but I don't see any of the reports made by the responding officers the night of May 3. Things like, "HH:MM received call from person identifying himself as __________ wishing to report that a Mrs McCann reports her child missing from her holiday apartment." Or reports stating "XX:HH reporting officer, along with Constable _________, conducted a thorough search of the interior of Apartment XXX..." See what I mean?

Snipped from Professor Horan's first post ^^^.

I think the confusion has arisen over the wording.  As can be clearly seen, Professor Horan enters the realms of what the police should or shouldn't have done, does it look like a cover-up, are there any unturned stones worthy of looking under - it is in a later post that he confines his interest to the first 24 hours, or whatever. 

The link to the mccannpjfiles providing the GNR and PJ statements and working documentation was given, twice, the areas of specific interest to Professor Horan have been covered extensively here on CMoMM over the years - it just takes a little time, without the danger of being confounded by misguided information.  The PJ files are really as good as it gets in terms of investigation detail, there isn't any other source to fall back on.

In fairness to the Portuguese authorities, this is not an episode of Starsky and Hutch. I can't understand why people think absolutely every detail of the Portuguese investigation should be included in the published files - i.e. early hour/day radio contact, police notebooks etc.  Would such information be made available for public consumption in, for example, the UK?  At least not until a case appears before a court of law, even then the detail would be confined to the law courts.

Verdi: Well, would YOU like to chat about on our show? There are very good reasons for wanting to know questions like, "Who called police? When? What did they say at that time?" I've been doing this for 30 years. Believe me, it matters. Oh, forget "believing" me. Let's chat about it :-)

Okay, I have (I think) all the reports. But I'm still confused about the actual layout of the apartment. Which doors/windows faced the pool area?

Thanks, again!

stonesunturned wrote:Verdi: Well, would YOU like to chat about on our show? There are very good reasons for wanting to know questions like, "Who called police? When? What did they say at that time?" I've been doing this for 30 years. Believe me, it matters. Oh, forget "believing" me. Let's chat about it :-)

Okay, I have (I think) all the reports. But I'm still confused about the actual layout of the apartment. Which doors/windows faced the pool area?

Thanks, again!

No I wouldn't like but thanks for the offer.

I quite understand that such questions are imperative as regards the official investigation, my only point is that this information is unavailable.

Thanks, but none of those images (or any others I can find) indicate which doors/windows faced the pool area. This image, for example: 

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seems to indicate that the locked "front" door and the "jimmied open" bedroom window were on the FAR side, facing the town, AWAY from the pool area. And the patio doors faced the pool area. Right? Is that right?

If you're looking for someone to take part in your podcast, Tom, you might consider contacting fellow-American Criminal Profiler Pat Brown. She's investigated this case and been to Praia da Luz.
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But, as Verdi says, the information you're looking for just isn't available, but Pat might be prepared to talk you.

I've sent her an email with a link to this thread.