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Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 25.05.18 19:16

Aha! (BTW, those links are broken. But that website's new links do work.)

I have two weeks break from teaching, so I'm studying this material (for the first time) all day every day--sort of a crash course. One more reason why I'm only looking at the first 24 hours. So, the quick responses to my questions have been terrible helpful :-)
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Tony Bennett on 25.05.18 19:32

@stonesunturned wrote:In my experience, once a situation like this (whether a murder or a missing child) hits the media, that's it. Nothing anybody "remembers" after that is usually worth much. Madeleine's disappearance becomes GLOBAL media SENSATION beginning within what, 24 hours? Less? So, I'm only interested in the first 24 hours. Every whisper, rumour, lie, you name it, that came to light after that has been hashed ad infinitum with zero result (as far as finding Madeleine or her remains). So, I don't see much reason going over it one time. On the other hand, I have noticed so far that even Richard D Hall hasn't said much about those very first police reports, etc. Sooooooo, I'm looking at the first 24 hours. 
Well, certainly the Madeleine McCann case remains a great mystery, and you'll have a guaranteed audience for any programme about her.

But I'm afraid your focus is extremely narrow. For a start, there's not much new material available about police action in the first 24 hours.

By contrast, and most exceptionally, we have literally thoudands of pages of the ACTUAL police files. A goldmine for any investigator, surely?

I do not understand why you do not use your podcast to inform your U.S. audience of some of the many profoundly disturbing  facts concerning this case, as e.g. presented by Richard D. Hall, Petermac, Dr Martin Roberts and others.

Also, I cannot see how you can properly inform your audience about this case without a decent summary of, e.g....
* cadaver dogs evidence
* all the Tapas9 changes of story
* all the Tapas9 contradictions
* all the other contradictions in the case 
* evidence the Last Photo was taken on Sunday not Thursday...


...and so on.

On the subject of a possible cover-up by the British government and its security forces, surely one of the major themes of this case, please look at the thread: 'The People who Rushed out to Praia da Luz" and you'll be astonished at how many of them rushed out in the first 9 days, even in the first 24 hours. Both Pat Brown & Wendy Murphy from the U.S. stress this aspect.

Send me a private message for more information or for ideas on who might agree to do a podcast.
..

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Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Verdi on 25.05.18 21:46

@stonesunturned wrote:Thanks, but none of those images (or any others I can find) indicate which doors/windows faced the pool area. This image, for example: 

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/z/Apartment-plan.jpg

seems to indicate that the locked "front" door and the "jimmied open" bedroom window were on the FAR side, facing the town, AWAY from the pool area. And the patio doors faced the pool area. Right? Is that right?
Front entrance to apartment 5a occupied by the McCann family showing the ground floor locked front door and the window to the room used for the children to sleep..





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The rear of the apartment 5a occupied by the McCann family, showing the veranda, patio door and view from apartment 5a veranda across to the Tapas restaurant..

     



thumbsup

ETA:  As you are now a member of CMoMM, is it possible for you to share your podcast here when it's finalized?  It would be very much appreciated.

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Verdi on 25.05.18 22:33

I think Pat Brown is the most obvious and ideal candidate for this podcast.

Failing that, another fellow American - the statement analyst Peter Hyatt.  He may not be entirely knowledgeable on the finer detail, particularly the first few hours, he has however extensive expertise in his field of work which would compliment your (Professor Horan) own expertise and experience. 

I feel perhaps a more independent voice would be a credible candidate, an objective view, someone without prejudice or a particular preconceived theory.  A general perspective as opposed to a fixed unshakeable mindset, one without pre-judgment, if you get my drift.

There are too many already embroiled in this claim to fame, as seen through the eyes of the likes of Mark Williams-Thomas and Colin Sutton.  Leave it to those without an agenda, those with only constructive input to offer without the frills - or should that be thrills?

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 26.05.18 1:24

Thanks for the suggestions! FWIW, I've contacted Pat Brown. We'll see what happens. Also, Peter Hyatt's firm has assisted us with unrelated cases. Our podcast is new (although some of us have previous experience in broadcasting, journalism, etc) and we are still experimenting with different "formats." So far, the episodes where I chat with listeners or readers, instead of other "experts," are getting a very good response. My own preference is to develop that eventually into a live radio call-in show. So, whether we book "experts" or not, I for one intend to continue our "listening to our listening" segments/episodes. No hurry, but anyone who has dived into this "case" is more than welcome to chat with me about it sometime.

I realize there are lots of exciting rumors and tidbits and "cadaver dogs" and you name it. But I really do have serious experience in reviewing cases, as well as conducting investigations, and I'll say it again--the first 24 hours will tell you 99 percent of what you need to know. IF it's done properly. And even in an investigation like this, where certain reports seem to have never been written, you'd be surprised. 

Oh, I forgot to mention--Google Earth 3D has an excellent view of the whole resort. I'm working on a short video that "recreates" the basic movements reported by all those interviewed by police on May 4. I, for one, am realizing a few startling (to me, anyway) things by doing it. I'll post a link when I get something done.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Verdi on 26.05.18 1:55

Professor Horan wrote:I'll say it again--the first 24 hours will tell you 99 percent of what you need to know. IF it's done properly. And even in an investigation like this, where certain reports seem to have never been written, you'd be surprised.

I'm not sure what you mean by "And even in an investigation like this, where certain reports seem to have never been written, you'd be surprised".

As I've said before, there is no reason to expect the Portuguese authorities to publish every single working document appertaining to the investigation, I see no reason to assume they were never written based only on the fact they aren't available for public viewing.  As for being surprised, nothing connected to this case would surprise me.

That aside, I believe the PJ were on track, 99% sure of all they needed to know within the first 24 hours.  Their problem was the immediate mobilization of the McCanns defence strategy, their direct contact with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, their direct contact with the UK media, the swift response by the Mark Warner PR pundits and the swift gathering of a host of wealthy benefactors - and a whole lot more.

UK establishment interference - that's the key to this unsolved case.  Always was, always will be.

If you follow the investigation as detailed in the PJ files, you will realise their investigation was impeccable and conducted with integrity - they were prevented from pursuing their line of investigation by outside intervention.

The Portuguese police were/are not a bunch of sardine munching, beer swilling country bumpkins as portrayed by the UK press - don't be fooled into thinking they are.

Look forward to finalisation of your project thumbsup .

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Verdi on 26.05.18 3:15

Professor Horan wrote:
I realize there are lots of exciting rumors and tidbits and "cadaver dogs" and you name it. But I really do have serious experience in reviewing cases, as well as conducting investigations,
There were two dogs deployed, Eddie the EVRD and Keela the bloodhound - not to be dismissed as exciting rumour or titbits.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm

These two specialist trained dogs, dismissed so glibly by Gerry 'ask the dogs Sandra' McCann, alerted to cadavar and blood scents in apartment 5a, occupied by the McCann family and the Renault Scenic car hired by the McCanns, some weeks after Madeleine was reported missing.

Not only were said dogs dismissed by the McCanns as scientifically unproven but they were dismissed by the UK's Forensic Science Service that was and subsequently ignored by the London Metropolitan Police, during the process of their review and subsequent  illegal investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann under the guise of Operation Grange !!!

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by aquila on 26.05.18 11:33

Professor Horan could always skim read the Summers and Swann manifesto, contact Scotland Yard for an audience, speak to Isabelle McFadden (the Californian queen of Portugal who professes to be in the know), have a natter with Pat Brown (already done allegedly) speak to Colin Sutton who seems keen on a career in media as long as he can speak in riddles..hell, Sonia Poulton and Rosalind Hutton are always up for a bit of a fireside chat..and I've only scraped the rusty paint off the edges.

OR

The Professor could publicise his actual reason for joining the forum with a very small remit, no mention of listenership figures etc

I get really fed up with people cashing in.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Verdi on 26.05.18 13:33

Fortunately the forenamed persons are but fringe players that have no place on CMoMM. 

Their respective motives are clearly dishonourable and their only way to disrupt a very worthy cause, Madeleine McCann, is to infiltrate this forum heavily disguised as a decoy duck dressed in finest plumage to look like a duck.  In river quack, I think it's called ducking and diving.

They did, they do and they will no doubt continue so to do.  Easily spotted however once the feathers are ruffled.

Meanwhile - back on track.

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 26.05.18 14:12

You have to be really careful not to overestimate trace evidence. Two weeks before the McCanns arrived, another family occupied apartment 5A. Their little girl fell and cut her chin, and she bled like a stuck pig. So, there's no surprise that there may have been a few drops of blood at kid-height on the walls of the children's bedroom. Dogs' noses are SUPER sensitive. I worked on a case where the killers wrapped the victim in several layers of polethylene sheeting, tossed him in the back of a pickup, drove almost 10 miles through a driving rainstorm, and buried him the woods. A week later, a bloodhound tracked him from the crime scene like an arrow. 

But, that's also a big PROBLEM with "touch" DNA--we all spray dead skins cells everywhere we go. Any "touch DNA" of Madeleine's found in the rental car could just be Maddie skin cells falling off Kate's clothes (or Maddie's clothes, for that matter.) Now, so far as the cadaver dog, remember, FOUR more families had occupied 5A in the meantime, and several people had rented the car. "What are the odds..." Pretty high, actually. And that's IF we could actually talk to the dog. We can't. One problem with dogs can arise when they only work with one handler their whole career. No matter how careful the handler thinks he is, inevitably, the dog starts picking up on the handler's subconscious cues (the "Clever Hans" effect.) Think about how much publicity he and his dogs would have received if they DIDN'T "hit." You do know he parlayed his Madeleine "success" into quite a lucrative career in the States, right? But, if his dogs had found "nothing..." Some guys get all the luck. I'm not saying he "staged" the whole thing. On purpose. I'm saying, dogs' hearts are just as sensitive as their noses, and he was reeeeaallllly hoping they'd "hit..."

But, there is a REAL problem with relying on the dogs and their miraculous noses, and it's right there in those first 24 hours. Keep in mind--SEVERAL police officers searched every nook and cranny of 5A immediately that night. They even thought to look in the washing machine and refrigerator (I was hoping they had forgotten to look in the fridge.) Madeleine was NOT there. Period. So, IF the dogs "hit" on MADELEINE'S "cadaver," then the McCanns MUST have somehow brought her body BACK into 5A, then snuck it back OUT out, again. Then, they went back to England. Then, they came back a month later. Then, they rented a car. Then, they went to wherever and recovered Maddie's body and moved it AGAIN. 

So, this is the "cadaver dog" theory:

1. Madeleine died in 5A between 6:00pm and 10:00pm.
2. The McCanns got her body OUT of 5A before police arrived and searched the apartment at 11:00pm. Because of all the witnesses, we KNOW that Madeleine's body HAD to be out of 5A BEFORE everyone went to dinner. That's a pretty tight window.
3. For some stupid reason, instead of waiting until the next morning to "notice" Maddie was gone, creating a 8-hour window for a possible "abduction" to take place, the McCanns raise the alarm at 10:00pm, creating a 30-minute window for a putative "abduction" to have possibly taken place. Pretty stupid choice for a couple of cold-blooded, intelligent doctors to make.
4. They somehow convince Jane Tanner to lie about seeing a "suspect" with a child during that exact 30-minute window.
5. They get away with it.
6. Somehow, and for some bizarre reason, they bring Maddie's corpse BACK to 5A, and keep it in the parents bedroom closet instead of the fridge. No one going into 5A during that time notices the unmistakable (have you ever smelled it? It's ghastly) odor of rotting human flesh. 
7. Somehow, they sneak Maddie's corpse OUT of 5A again.
8. They return to England, scot-free (to coin a phrase.)
9. They come back to Portugal, rent a car, pick up Maddie's even more rotten corpse (5 weeks is really unspeakable, if you've ever...) and drive it somewhere else.
10. All without being noticed. Again, if they're such criminal geniuses, why didn't they wait until the next morning...

Ooooooooor, there's a much, much simpler explanation for why Madeleine was not in 5A when police arrive.

Again, I have no intention (or time) to quibble over rumors about "Maddie's DNA" being or not being in the rental car. Richard D Hall has already done that, anyway. No, I'm betting a six-pack that the answer is in those first 24 hours. If it's NOT there, I'll admit it. Either way...

Thanks again, everyone! I'll keep you posted. By all means, feel free to nag Pat Brown about responding to my queries. Or any one else you can think of.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by aquila on 26.05.18 15:36

Yet another bloody shameless charlatan.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by sandancer on 26.05.18 15:55

Oh dear , the child you refer to as " bleeding like a stuck pig " cut her chin at the Crèche , was taken to a local doctor for stitches .

Keela the CSI dog only alerted to blood behind the sofa in the living room not in the children's bedroom .

DNA is not obtained from dead skin cells , but from body fluids , skin , tissue , bones teeth hair .

 The McCanns didn't return to the U.K then go back to 
Portugal before hiring their rental car .

Have you actually bothered to read Martin Grime statements in the files ? 

The parents moved Madeleines body in and out of 5a ? Oh please , " no intention or time " sounds about right !

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Jill Havern on 26.05.18 16:12

@stonesunturned wrote:You have to be really careful not to overestimate trace evidence. Two weeks before the McCanns arrived, another family occupied apartment 5A. Their little girl fell and cut her chin, and she bled like a stuck pig. So, there's no surprise that there may have been a few drops of blood at kid-height on the walls of the children's bedroom. Dogs' noses are SUPER sensitive. I worked on a case where the killers wrapped the victim in several layers of polethylene sheeting, tossed him in the back of a pickup, drove almost 10 miles through a driving rainstorm, and buried him the woods. A week later, a bloodhound tracked him from the crime scene like an arrow. 

But, that's also a big PROBLEM with "touch" DNA--we all spray dead skins cells everywhere we go. Any "touch DNA" of Madeleine's found in the rental car could just be Maddie skin cells falling off Kate's clothes (or Maddie's clothes, for that matter.) Now, so far as the cadaver dog, remember, FOUR more families had occupied 5A in the meantime, and several people had rented the car. "What are the odds..." Pretty high, actually. And that's IF we could actually talk to the dog. We can't. One problem with dogs can arise when they only work with one handler their whole career. No matter how careful the handler thinks he is, inevitably, the dog starts picking up on the handler's subconscious cues (the "Clever Hans" effect.) Think about how much publicity he and his dogs would have received if they DIDN'T "hit." You do know he parlayed his Madeleine "success" into quite a lucrative career in the States, right? But, if his dogs had found "nothing..." Some guys get all the luck. I'm not saying he "staged" the whole thing. On purpose. I'm saying, dogs' hearts are just as sensitive as their noses, and he was reeeeaallllly hoping they'd "hit..."

But, there is a REAL problem with relying on the dogs and their miraculous noses, and it's right there in those first 24 hours. Keep in mind--SEVERAL police officers searched every nook and cranny of 5A immediately that night. They even thought to look in the washing machine and refrigerator (I was hoping they had forgotten to look in the fridge.) Madeleine was NOT there. Period. So, IF the dogs "hit" on MADELEINE'S "cadaver," then the McCanns MUST have somehow brought her body BACK into 5A, then snuck it back OUT out, again. Then, they went back to England. Then, they came back a month later. Then, they rented a car. Then, they went to wherever and recovered Maddie's body and moved it AGAIN. 

So, this is the "cadaver dog" theory:

1. Madeleine died in 5A between 6:00pm and 10:00pm.
2. The McCanns got her body OUT of 5A before police arrived and searched the apartment at 11:00pm. Because of all the witnesses, we KNOW that Madeleine's body HAD to be out of 5A BEFORE everyone went to dinner. That's a pretty tight window.
3. For some stupid reason, instead of waiting until the next morning to "notice" Maddie was gone, creating a 8-hour window for a possible "abduction" to take place, the McCanns raise the alarm at 10:00pm, creating a 30-minute window for a putative "abduction" to have possibly taken place. Pretty stupid choice for a couple of cold-blooded, intelligent doctors to make.
4. They somehow convince Jane Tanner to lie about seeing a "suspect" with a child during that exact 30-minute window.
5. They get away with it.
6. Somehow, and for some bizarre reason, they bring Maddie's corpse BACK to 5A, and keep it in the parents bedroom closet instead of the fridge. No one going into 5A during that time notices the unmistakable (have you ever smelled it? It's ghastly) odor of rotting human flesh. 
7. Somehow, they sneak Maddie's corpse OUT of 5A again.
8. They return to England, scot-free (to coin a phrase.)
9. They come back to Portugal, rent a car, pick up Maddie's even more rotten corpse (5 weeks is really unspeakable, if you've ever...) and drive it somewhere else.
10. All without being noticed. Again, if they're such criminal geniuses, why didn't they wait until the next morning...

Ooooooooor, there's a much, much simpler explanation for why Madeleine was not in 5A when police arrive.

Again, I have no intention (or time) to quibble over rumors about "Maddie's DNA" being or not being in the rental car. Richard D Hall has already done that, anyway. No, I'm betting a six-pack that the answer is in those first 24 hours. If it's NOT there, I'll admit it. Either way...

Thanks again, everyone! I'll keep you posted. By all means, feel free to nag Pat Brown about responding to my queries. Or any one else you can think of.
Please don't bother.

Because if this is a taste of what your podcast is going to be like you know where you can shove it.

How dare you disrepect a three-year-old dead child this way.

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Verdi on 26.05.18 16:26

what

So another one bites the proverbial - why am I not surprised.

byebye

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by nglfi on 26.05.18 17:57

What you've said re the cadaver dogs doesn't make any sense. Clearly there was a cadaver in 5A. Hypothetically, there's no reason the McCanns or whoever was responsible would have to remove her body and then put it back. I don't understand why you've said that? Clearly whoever was responsible removed it before the alarm was raised. The police then searched the apartment. They later (3 weeks later I think) sent cadaver dogs in who smelled cadaver scent, presumably from the time the missing person staying in that apartment 'disappeared'. Once the scent has accumulated, there it stays. At no point did the Portuguese police send dogs in and find no scent.
So need to remove and put back. Also, and it's really not a nice topic of discussion, but there would be no need for any 'putrefaction' for the dogs to scent cadaver. You said yourself, their noses are incredibly sensitive. I don't buy Martin Grimes intentionally or otherwise leading the dogs on. B****cks, if you'll excuse me.

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 26.05.18 18:23

I didn't say she bled all over 5A. I said, she no doubt had left TRACES of blood (on clothes; on her hands, bandages, etc.) from her hours-old wound in 5A. And then I pointed out that FOUR more families occupied 5A before the dogs "detected" traces of blood. And REMEMBER: the dogs didn't say they smelled ________. Their handler, who parlayed this "discovery" into a lucrative gig in the US, claimed the dogs smelled _________. Please explain how that is different from someone claiming that their divining rods "detected" underground water. You can't throw someone in prison just because a K9 barked. You have to follow up that hunch by actually finding actual drugs in the car. Forensics experts were not able to confirm what the dogs were barking at. People can ignore that, but I don't. 

"Clearly, there was a cadaver in 5A." No, it's NOT that clear. Let's say that the dog really did smell decayed flesh of some kind in the closet. It also supposedly "hit" on Kate's clothes. Does that prove a "cadaver" had been stashed in the closet? No. It only proves that Kate's clothes were stored in Kate's closet. (IF Kate's clothes had picked up traces of a "cadaver" from somewhere.)

That's what I mean about jumping to conclusions, and then trying to fit the evidence to confirm what you've already decided is true. 

It's nice that you feel sorry for Madeleine. But feeling sorry for her isn't the same thing as finding her by sticking to the actual evidence, and ignoring all the hunches and aspersions and entertaining "theories."

Now, FWIW, I have, so far, definitely noticed what appears to be at least one "unturned stone" popping up (to coin a phrase) within that first 24 hours. I'm checking all over (including here) to see if anyone's already followed it up. I don't think they have. Whether you care, or not. But I'll say it one more time: 10 plus years of turning our noses up at the McCanns has produced ZERO actual results. You're right: I'd be instantly popular if I just jumped on that bandwagon. But I'm not a bandwagon guy. If Gerry or Kate or both are guilty of ______, they're guilty. If not, they're not.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by nglfi on 26.05.18 18:30

And points 3 and 10 -
I don't recall anyone saying they were criminal geniuses. They're not. But it would have been much harder to 'report Madeleine missing' in the morning. Questions would be immediately asked, ie how do you think she left the apartment? The McCanns would have had to leave all doors unlocked overnight, which seems quite suspicious. Or fake a break in, far too risky. As it was they were stupid and tried to blame it on a window that wouldn't open from the outside. Further, they would have had no alibi for what they were actually doing at the time, no way of 'proving' they had nothing to do with it. They all go to bed one night and poof! She's gone the next morning, with no evidence of an intruder. No one is going ro buy that. I believe the plan was rather to be seen by so many witnesses at dinner, thereby showing it couldn't possibly have been them. You said you would look at the days leading up to the crime and I really think you should, because it becomes apparent that the nightly tapas dinner was facilitated to explain the situation of leaving the children alone each night.

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by nglfi on 26.05.18 18:35

We'll have to disagree on that point then, because I think it really is that clear. Where did the cadaver scent come from? Kate's clothes? Do you buy the 'I came into contact with several cadavers prior, and came on holiday in my work clothes' story from Kate McCann? I don't.
The scent came from somewhere . The 2 dogs have an excellent track record and I believe they indicated correctly. No one else ever died in that apartment. And I see no genuine reason for anyone who entered that apartment to come into contact with cadaver scent for another reason.

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.05.18 20:50

Professor Horan has simply gone wrong on his Point 1. It follows from his error in Point 1 that his Points 2 to 10 are also wrong. I am v surprised at this basic error if, as he says, he has watched all of Richard Hall's films and has read the forum header which points to a terminal event on Sunday.

I would advise him to do further research before embarking (no pun intended) on his podcast. Of course, Pat Brown disagrees with our views and those of Richard Hall.

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Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 26.05.18 21:23

I have nooooooo intentions of changing anyone's mind about anything. If NO ONE on this forum wants to actually reexamine the actual evidence and witness statements and other police reports from the first 24 hours, that's okay. But I'm not going to go chasing everybody's tail around and around and around in the same circles that everyone's been running around the last 10 years. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm just ignore EVERY comment about what "happened" AFTER midnight May 4. IF someone wants to chat about THE FIRST 24 HOURS, that would be great. In the mean time, I'm not posting about ANYTHING ELSE.

For example: We KNOW that Madeleine was NOT in Apartment 5A as of 11:00ish pm May 3. Right? Or does someone see ANY indication that she was still in the apartment, and ALL those police officers failed to see her? Or did the all lie? 

That's the simplest point I can think to bring up. Madeleine was NOT in Apartment 5A when police arrived. Yes? or No?
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by sandancer on 26.05.18 21:25

@stonesunturned wrote:I didn't say she bled all over 5A. I said, she no doubt had left TRACES of blood (on clothes; on her hands, bandages, etc.) from her hours-old wound in 5A. And then I pointed out that FOUR more families occupied 5A before the dogs "detected" traces of blood. And REMEMBER: the dogs didn't say they smelled ________. Their handler, who parlayed this "discovery" into a lucrative gig in the US, claimed the dogs smelled _________. Please explain how that is different from someone claiming that their divining rods "detected" underground water. You can't throw someone in prison just because a K9 barked. You have to follow up that hunch by actually finding actual drugs in the car. Forensics experts were not able to confirm what the dogs were barking at. People can ignore that, but I don't. 

"Clearly, there was a cadaver in 5A." No, it's NOT that clear. Let's say that the dog really did smell decayed flesh of some kind in the closet. It also supposedly "hit" on Kate's clothes. Does that prove a "cadaver" had been stashed in the closet? No. It only proves that Kate's clothes were stored in Kate's closet. (IF Kate's clothes had picked up traces of a "cadaver" from somewhere.)

That's what I mean about jumping to conclusions, and then trying to fit the evidence to confirm what you've already decided is true. 

It's nice that you feel sorry for Madeleine. But feeling sorry for her isn't the same thing as finding her by sticking to the actual evidence, and ignoring all the hunches and aspersions and entertaining "theories."

Now, FWIW, I have, so far, definitely noticed what appears to be at least one "unturned stone" popping up (to coin a phrase) within that first 24 hours. I'm checking all over (including here) to see if anyone's already followed it up. I don't think they have. Whether you care, or not. But I'll say it one more time: 10 plus years of turning our noses up at the McCanns has produced ZERO actual results. You're right: I'd be instantly popular if I just jumped on that bandwagon. But I'm not a bandwagon guy. If Gerry or Kate or both are guilty of ______, they're guilty. If not, they're not.

I'll say again the only traces of blood alerted to in the apartment were behind the sofa .
" It only proves Kates clothes were in Kates closet " , so Kate only put the checked trousers , white t-shirt plus a childs red t shirt in the closet ? Where were the rest of her clothes , where were Gerrys clothes ? What about the bundle of clothing photographed in the wardrobe on the night ? 
For a dog that indicate the body dosnt have to be decomposed , chemical breakdown begins immediately following clinical death dogs have a much greater olfactory sense than humans .
A K9 barked and Zapata went to jail , no body , Bianca Jones father , no body , Suzanne Pilley case no body but conviction . 

You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet regarding Martin Grime going to work with the FBI , hinting he " set up " the alerts to promote the dogs and himself , imagine if Madeleine had been found alive and well that would be his career down the drain . Worth the risk ? I don't think so do you ? 
As suggested I think you need to do a great deal more reading and research , you couldn't have come to a better place . That's if  you have the intention and the time of course ?

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 26.05.18 21:41

Let me try again. The "theory" of this community is that Madeleine died in Apartment 5A and her parents kept her body hidden in the closet for several days. The "evidence" for this theory is that a "cadaver dog" brought in THREE months later barked when it was near the parents bedroom closet, and barked when sniffing Kate's clothes. The dog's handler claims that that's the dog's signal for detecting the scent of the byproducts of decayed flesh. Is that right? And everyone admits that forensics found NOTHING to confirm this opinion. Right? It's the opinion of the dog's handler, versus all the other evidence. Right?

Don't go running off on 15 tangents. Just answer the question, please.

I DON'T CARE if the dogs are "right" or "wrong." What I CARE about is, police state they searched that apartment, including all closets, cupboards, the washing machine, and the refrigerator. NO MADELEINE.

Right? Or have I missed something? Or does no one care about my actual question?
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by aquila on 26.05.18 21:49

@stonesunturned wrote:Let me try again. The "theory" of this community is that Madeleine died in Apartment 5A and her parents kept her body hidden in the closet for several days. The "evidence" for this theory is that a "cadaver dog" brought in THREE months later barked when it was near the parents bedroom closet, and barked when sniffing Kate's clothes. The dog's handler claims that that's the dog's signal for detecting the scent of the byproducts of decayed flesh. Is that right? And everyone admits that forensics found NOTHING to confirm this opinion. Right? It's the opinion of the dog's handler, versus all the other evidence. Right?

Don't go running off on 15 tangents. Just answer the question, please.
I was going go reply to your crass and wildly inaccurate view of this forum but life is too shkrt go entertain a wind up.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Phoebe on 26.05.18 21:54

@ stoneunturned. Do please engage in some research before posting. It seems to me that you have come here, not with an open mind, but to push your own agenda. Please inform youself of basic information such as the layout of the apartment, when the McCanns left Portugal, the forensic evidence which was recovered etc and for pity's sake spend some time reading the PJ. files, Dr. Amaral's book and the research made available on this forum if you wish to be informed before actually posting!!

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Verdi on 26.05.18 21:56

Professor Horan wrote:Don't go running off on 15 tangents. Just answer the question, please.
Question 1.  You are wrong

Question 2.  You are wrong

Question 3.  You are wrong

Question 4.  You are wrong

Question 5.  You are wrong

Question 6.  You are wrong

OK - Professor Horan?  Is that right?

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