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Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by skyrocket on 13.07.17 8:05

Jeez Louise @Verdi, your last post certainly put a smile on my face when I read it this morning! winkwink 

@polyenne et al interested in the creche handwriting and other handwritten 'evidence' from the files - whilst most or all of us on here are not qualified to make a professional assessment on the validity of the creche signatures that, IMO, does not negate the fact that they are a completely valid area of research. Theorizing cannot be equated to fantasizing when there is genuine speculation over whether something has been falsified. I am compeletely of the opinion that the creche records (and other handwritten documents related to this case) fall into that category. And in advance, no amount of shouting me down (or others) will change my opinion on that. It is clear that the PJ highlighted the creche records for a closer examination - obviously ridiculous fantasists exist in the best of places.
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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by Verdi on 13.07.17 15:56

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

THE HOLIDAY

On Saturday, 28 April 2007, Fiona, David, Dianne and the girls arrived at our house before 7am

We all had breakfast together at the airport

We found the people carrier plus driver we’d pre-booked* to meet us at Faro airport and arrived at the Ocean Club resort in the village of Praia da Luz at around three
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I believe the approximate flight time between UK East Midlands airport and Faro in Portugal is three hours.

Taking all things into account, the group couldn't possibly have arrived before lunchtime on Saturday 28th April.  Certainly no opportunity for Madeleine to be dressed in her new finery for a poolside photoshoot.

Nor can I see any reason why they would lie about their time of arrival.

NB:  * "We found the people carrier plus driver we’d pre-booked to meet us at Faro airport and arrived at the Ocean Club resort"

Now this is a point I certainly question.  The McCanns were on a package tour, charter flight inclusive.  To my knowledge, transport from airport to resort is always provided by the tour operator - why then does Kate McCann say they'd pre-booked a people carrier plus driver?

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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by dartinghero on 13.07.17 16:49

Sometimes on package deals, the airport to resort is like a horrible magical mystery tour where there are a coachload of you at different resorts and you get dropped off - resort by resort. It may be that the 2 families didn't want this with all their young children and arranged an alternative - cost split between the 2 families I don't suppose would be too bad. It may also have been the case that you have to opt in ("pre-book" if you're feeling a bit grand) or out as some people hire cars for their holiday at the airport and get themselves to the resort?
I have no evidence for any of these theories and no idea how it would be possible to get it but I'm just remembering travelling with littlies.....
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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by skyrocket on 13.07.17 18:04

@Verdi - the arrival time of the McCann party is a puzzle. If we look at the early PJ statements (4/10 may), we get the following:

Kate, 4 May:
The meeting point was the Ocean Club where the interviewee's group arrived on Saturday April 28th at around 3pm from Faro airport in an airport mini bus.


Gerry, 4 May
The meeting point was in Portugal, at the OC, where his group arrived at about 14.30 on 28th April 2007, arriving from Faro airport in a small minibus provided by the airport services.


Dianne Webster (4 May):
The informant arrived in Portugal on April 28th at around 12.20/12.30 from Leicestershire to Faro and then to Praia da Luz.



Fiona Payne (4 May):
She arrived in Portugal on the 28th April, at around 12H00, leaving from Leicestershire, and arriving at Faro and then on to Praia da Luz.


Jane Tanner (10 May):
As for the Payne and McCann couples, they journeyed by plane from East Midlands to Faro, having arrived around 11h00. They took a taxi from Faro to Luz arriving at 12h00 also on 28 May.


I don't think Matthew, Rachael, David or Russell state any specific time/s in the early statements (please correct me if I'm wrong).


The guest list at http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P2/02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_335.jpg clearly states that the McCann party are due to arrive in the resort at midday. Don't forget that according to T9 the McCann party arranged their own flights and transfers as they didn't want to travel down to Gatwick.



I think the above shows that there is a question mark over the arrival time. Although it is irrelevant whether the 'last'photo' was taken on the Saturday or the Sunday, it is feasible that it could be either. The important point is that it was not taken on the 3 May.


This seems to be going off topic - apologies!
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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by HiDeHo on 13.07.17 19:18












3 Hr flight (9.30am - 12.30pm)

Baggage etc (Half an hour?)

Bus (example) 1 hr



Arrival at reception and booking in as well as wait for transport

Transfer to apartment

2.30pm - 3pm seems to be the approx time of arrival at the apartment



https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowTopic-g189117-i688-k3027939-Taxi_from_Faro_to_Praia_da_Luz-Lagos_Faro_District_Algarve.html
Taxi from Faro to Praia da Luz
15 August 2009, 12:47
Eight of us will be holidaying in Praia da Luz next June and I was wondering what we could expect to pay for a taxi/people carrier from Faro to Praia da Luz.

2. Re: Taxi from Faro to Praia da Luz
15 August 2009, 17:12
I would certainly investigate private transfer for a group that size. Even most people carriers are limited to 7 passengers and have limited luggage space with that number of people on board. To carry 8 you're looking at a minibus which I suspect will be a lot cheaper than 2 taxis


bmibaby Logo
Track Flight WW5531 / BMI67Y
https://planefinder.net/data/flight/WW5531
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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by polyenne on 13.07.17 20:27

According to the PJ Files under OC Guest Lists the McCanns (together with others) have the notation TCX28 tagged to their name. This is a Thomas Cook flight reference. I can't seem to locate historical data to ascertain if this was a EMA to FAO flight in 2007.

The Guest List actually says "TCX28K 16.25" ??

Other guests/parties have other flight references such FCA3644 which is a First Choice flight.
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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by Verdi on 13.07.17 21:43

dartinghero wrote:Sometimes on package deals, the airport to resort is like a horrible magical mystery tour where there are a coachload of you at different resorts and you get dropped off - resort by resort.
I agree, no one in their right mind would join the happy campers airport/resort transfer coach if there were an easy alternative.  As I say, I'm not interested in their time of arrival, it's not relevant nor can there be any reason to lie about it.

I questioned the airport/resort transport arrangement because, according to his rogatory interview, David Payne the holiday organiser made all the arrangements - they paid extra to fly out from East Midlands airport but apparently Gerry McCann arranged for a taxi to take them all to the Ocean Club from Faro airport.  I don't understand why it would be necessary to pre-arrange and pay for a taxi (usually there is a fleet of the at any airport).   Can't remember at the moment what made me curious but it was something relating to the group being met at Faro airport.

David Payne's rogatory interview

 "Yeah we had err you know a very good flight err from my, I can remember it wasn't err, it was, the flight was about nine in the morning, nine, nine thirty...

1485 "Okay, okay. So when you get to Portugal, tell me about the scenario from the time you left the airport to the time you was actually booked in at the Ocean Club.'

 Reply "Yes, yeah err the, you know we, we got the, the taxi which Gerry had sorted out err you know I say we got all the baggage in err you know from the seat, the car seating we were just trying to work out what the best options and where to put the children into the taxi.

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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by Phoebe on 13.07.17 22:33

The taxis waiting outside airports tend to be, in my experience, mainly saloon type cars. Given that there were five adults, five children plus driver ( 11 passengers) plus luggage they would have needed at least a small mini-bus. Perhaps they pre-booked to ensure getting a vehicle such as this so that the McCann/Payne group could all travel/arrive together?
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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by Keitei on 13.07.17 22:48

Kate says in her book 'madeleine' that they travelled to the Ocean Club in a People Carrier, arriving at approx. 3pm

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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by Phoebe on 13.07.17 23:12

They could have taken a 9 seater like a Ford Tourneo which would have meant eight seats other than the driver and the adults could have held some children on their laps (uncomfortable for an hour's drive, also illegal). A more common 7 seater would have been even worse. All the adults could have had seats and one child with the rest on laps. However, you can be left waiting a while for one of these to come along. Easier to book, especially when they had Mr. organization Dave aboard   big grin
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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by Keitei on 13.07.17 23:37

Yes, the vehicle was pre-booked, number of seats not mentioned.

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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by Verdi on 15.07.17 0:42

Not withstanding a member's recent valid point about not wishing to use tour operators courtesy transport from airport to resort, it seems rather odd that Gerry McCann was reluctant to fork out for a baby sitter, yet quite willing to pay for a taxi to transport the group to the resort - if indeed that's what he did do.  I still have my doubts, for the most part pre-arranged taxis would be used by passengers on a scheduled flight, not a package tour charter flight tourist - tenuous to say the least.

David Payne rogatory interview - April 2008

Err you know we were met by, err you know Gerry had organised err the taxi side of it err over in err Portugal ......

Gerry McCann - witness statement 4th May 2007

The meeting point was in Portugal, at the OC, where his group arrived at about 14.30 on 28th April 2007, arriving from Faro airport in a small minibus provided by the airport services. The other group also arrived on the same day at about 13.00, also by means of a minibus.

Gerry McCann - witness statement 10th May 2007

Relating to the events in Portugal, as already stated in his previous statements, he arrived at Faro airport on 28 April 2007 at 12h30 having travelled immediately to OCEAN CLUB in an airport mini-bus where he arrived at 14h20/14h30.
----------

It's not really important how they traveled between the airport and the Ocean Club, as I said I was curious because I recall reading how 'they were met' at the airport.  Trouble is, I can't find it!

Excuse the temporary distraction.

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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by Verdi on 21.07.17 15:51

BlueBag wrote:
"The only other difference was that after dinner we ventured into the enclosed bar area"

So presumably they could no longer see the open patio doors of 5A... (not that they could anyway).
As you rightly say - not that they could anyway..

A report by Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida to the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation - 10th September 2007

Although the entire group was at the table and starting the meal, they began the 'visits' to the children in a way that is neither coherent nor acceptable; that could not be confirmed and only the group defends it, in a sort of 'unique version'.

Although they say in the 'Autos' that their strategic position in the Tapas restaurant allowed them, the McCann, to see the apartment where they'd left their children, minor, sleeping, the exam of the local reveals it is false.

It must be noted, also, that by the stated in the 'Autos' everything points to their position at the table with their back to the apartment.

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Re: Illustrated Holiday Timeline, Discrepancies and Videos

Post by polyenne on 08.08.17 14:47

It's interesting that, IIRC, Kate states in her book that not many of the T9 had mobile phones. That is patently untrue, based on the PJs records, in which it appears that everyone, bar Fiona Payne, had a mobile phone during that holiday (though FP certainly had one for her 29 June visit).

In addition, there was some earlier discussion as to who got to PdL and when. Although the triggering of phone masts is not an indication or proof of when a person arrived, it is interesting to review the first triggering data (to a Luz area antenna) of each of the T9 :

David Payne : at 2.15pm on 28/4
Fiona Payne : no mobile
Diane Webster : 8.30pm on 28/4
Gerry McCann : 10.13am on 29/4
Jane Tanner : 4.12am (??) on 29/4
Kate Healy : 2.30pm on 28/4
Matthew Oldfield : 10.45pm on 3/5 (??)
Rachael Mampilly : 8.20pm on 28/4
Russell O'Brien : 1.21pm on 28/4
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