Re: The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo?

by Verdi 26.03.19 14:51

to the forum iwantanswers.

Yes, the subject of Madeleine's ears has been discussed in detail somewhere on the forum, might even be on this thread somewhere.

Whatever, it didn't lead anywhere constructive. You'd be amazed at some of the theories presented over the years relating to Madeleine McCann photographs.

Of course the most, if not only, important images are the very few that provide evidence of Madeleine's presence at the Ocean Club in April/May 2007. Make that three, a couple at the playground and the poolside photograph - anything else is debatable.

I hope you enjoy the forum.

by **Tony Bennett** 26.03.19 16:27

Whilst this topic is active on the forum, it may well be useful to post a reminder of why the Make-Up Photo may be critical to a proper understanding of what really happened to Madeleine McCann:

21 reasons for thinking the Make-Up Photo was taken on Sunday 29 April 2007

1 The Make-Up photo first appeared in a 2-minute video made by Jon Corner

2 He clearly had access to the photo in order to make the video.

3 For some reason he was in possession of lots of photos of Madeleine

4 The original story from the McCanns was that it was taken “when Maddie was playing with Mummy’s make-up”, No details of place or time were given

5 That seems unlikely in the extreme. Madeleine is wearing a necklace and a hair-bead/elastic. At the age of three it is impossible that she could have put these on herself.

6 Madeleine clearly has eye shadow, which seems neatly applied and not the sort of mess a child would make. Many observers say she is wearing lipstick and even eye-liner. If we forget about the lipstick and the eyeliner, that still leaves the question of who applied the eye shadow

7 It seems probable that this photograph was not taken on the McCanns’ camera. It certainly wasn’t among the photos handed in to the Portuguese Police by Gerry McCann, Michael Wright and Bell Pottinger’s Head of Risk on 8 and 9 May 2007

8 The background to this photo is a stucco wall apparently of yellow, dark cream or light ochre colour. This is extremely untypical of homes in the United Kingdom but extreme;y typical of houses and apartments on the Algarve coast

9 The presence of what is almost certainly an outside thermometer in the shot is another typical feature of Mediterranean houses

10 Madeleine’s face looks precisely the same age as it is on the so-called ‘Last Photo’, which many have concluded was overwhelmingly likely to have been taken on Sunday lunchtime, Sunday 29 April

11 Madeleine’s hair length is identical to that on the Last Photo

12 Madeleine’s hair colour is identical to that on the Last Photo

13 There are several indications that the Last Photo and the Make-Up photo were aken close together in time

14 In both photos, Madeleine is wearing a pink/white hair-bead or elastic. Admittedly they are in different positions but it is suggestive of an adult dressing her up

15 In both photos, Madeleine is wearing a pink dress or smock, very possibly the same dress

16 The photo is disturbing. We have four pictures of Madeleine enjoying herself on the Saturday and Sunday (Playground Photo, two Wendy House photos, and the ‘Last Photo’). Why does she look vacant, unhappy and sad?

17 Why is her head tipped back like that? Was she asked to pose like that?

18 The cameraman, whoever it was, seems to have taken this photo with the camera held below Madeleine’s waist. Why such a strange camera angle and why is her head tipped back?

19 Why are there no other photos of her in this location? Was this a one-off, or were there more photos of her?

20 Why, if this photo was indeed taken on Sunday 29 April, and if the Last Photo was also taken on 29 April, are there no other confirmed photos of Madeleine that week? (The Tennis Balls Photo doesn’t count, it was said to have been taken by up to three different people on at least two different days. Moreover, the description by Kate McCann of her charging back to get her camera, while Madeleine waited for several minutes holding some tennis balls, doesn’t ring true – see PeterMac’s two chapters on the Tennis Balls Photo in his ebook).

21 Did Madeleine suffer a ‘serious event’ of some kind soon after the Make-Up Photo was taken?

by worriedmum 26.03.19 22:54

PeterMac wrote:One picture was taken by a man who served time in prison for child pornography. The other wasn't

Chilling images, Peter. I have tried to see if Jim Gamble commented on the 'make-up photo', but I can't find anything...

by Phoebe 27.03.19 10:30

IMO there's too little evidence to state with certainty WHERE and WHEN the photo was taken. However, there is little doubt that it is a highly inappropriate pose for child and claims that Madeleine herself applied that make up would render her, if true, the most dexterous three year old imaginable. IMO they claim she was playing (despite looking miserable) and applied the make-up herself because they know it would be damaging to their image as parents to admit that an adult painted her up and posed her thus. However, they were so eager to push the "paedophile abduction" angle that they over-egged the pudding by releasing this image. It has back-fired badly on them!

by Liz Eagles 27.03.19 10:51

Phoebe wrote:IMO there's too little evidence to state with certainty WHERE and WHEN the photo was taken. However, there is little doubt that it is a highly inappropriate pose for child and claims that Madeleine herself applied that make up would render her, if true, the most dexterous three year old imaginable. IMO they claim she was playing (despite looking miserable) and applied the make-up herself because they know it would be damaging to their image as parents to admit that an adult painted her up and posed her thus. However, they were so eager to push the "paedophile abduction" angle that they over-egged the pudding by releasing this image. It has back-fired badly on them!

This photograph which many consider highly inappropriate and a peculiar choice to release was taken before Madeleine's disappearance..

by worriedmum 27.03.19 10:55

aquila wrote:
Phoebe wrote:IMO there's too little evidence to state with certainty WHERE and WHEN the photo was taken. However, there is little doubt that it is a highly inappropriate pose for child and claims that Madeleine herself applied that make up would render her, if true, the most dexterous three year old imaginable. IMO they claim she was playing (despite looking miserable) and applied the make-up herself because they know it would be damaging to their image as parents to admit that an adult painted her up and posed her thus. However, they were so eager to push the "paedophile abduction" angle that they over-egged the pudding by releasing this image. It has back-fired badly on them!

This photograph which many consider highly inappropriate and a peculiar choice to release was taken before Madeleine's disappearance..

How do you know this?

by Liz Eagles 27.03.19 11:19

worriedmum wrote:
aquila wrote:
Phoebe wrote:IMO there's too little evidence to state with certainty WHERE and WHEN the photo was taken. However, there is little doubt that it is a highly inappropriate pose for child and claims that Madeleine herself applied that make up would render her, if true, the most dexterous three year old imaginable. IMO they claim she was playing (despite looking miserable) and applied the make-up herself because they know it would be damaging to their image as parents to admit that an adult painted her up and posed her thus. However, they were so eager to push the "paedophile abduction" angle that they over-egged the pudding by releasing this image. It has back-fired badly on them!

This photograph which many consider highly inappropriate and a peculiar choice to release was taken before Madeleine's disappearance..

How do you know this?

Oh dear, let's not go down another rabbit hole.

by Verdi 27.03.19 11:53

It has back-fired badly on them!

No it hasn't. The original video produced by the good friend Jon Corner is still up on YouTube for all to view.

It's worked perfectly to their advantage as has all the other red herrings and crafty bait thrown out for public consumption over the years.

by Phoebe 27.03.19 13:35

aquila wrote:
Phoebe wrote:IMO there's too little evidence to state with certainty WHERE and WHEN the photo was taken. However, there is little doubt that it is a highly inappropriate pose for child and claims that Madeleine herself applied that make up would render her, if true, the most dexterous three year old imaginable. IMO they claim she was playing (despite looking miserable) and applied the make-up herself because they know it would be damaging to their image as parents to admit that an adult painted her up and posed her thus. However, they were so eager to push the "paedophile abduction" angle that they over-egged the pudding by releasing this image. It has back-fired badly on them!

This photograph which many consider highly inappropriate and a peculiar choice to release was taken before Madeleine's disappearance..

Ans that's about all one can say about proof of where and when. It has led to many commentators remarking on the poor choice they made in releasing it. Even their sterling supporter MWT has, I believe, commented on his disquiet over it's publication.

by Liz Eagles 27.03.19 14:43

Phoebe wrote:
aquila wrote:
Phoebe wrote:IMO there's too little evidence to state with certainty WHERE and WHEN the photo was taken. However, there is little doubt that it is a highly inappropriate pose for child and claims that Madeleine herself applied that make up would render her, if true, the most dexterous three year old imaginable. IMO they claim she was playing (despite looking miserable) and applied the make-up herself because they know it would be damaging to their image as parents to admit that an adult painted her up and posed her thus. However, they were so eager to push the "paedophile abduction" angle that they over-egged the pudding by releasing this image. It has back-fired badly on them!

This photograph which many consider highly inappropriate and a peculiar choice to release was taken before Madeleine's disappearance..
Ans that's about all one can say about proof of where and when. It has led to many commentators remarking on the poor choice they made in releasing it. Even their sterling supporter MWT has, I believe, commented on his disquiet over it's publication.

People are asking why such a photograph existed in the first place.

by theomega 02.05.19 14:50

https://youtu.be/xwdvr1iIPCI

Creepy but reading above not entirely hypothetical

by Verdi 02.05.19 15:21

theomega wrote:https://youtu.be/xwdvr1iIPCI

Creepy but reading above not entirely hypothetical

Yes, this ugly suggestion has been raised many times in the past and dismissed before taking root. Highly unlikely and not very pleasant I might add.

The still was taken from a compilation of images used by the McCanns friend, Jon Corner, for the somewhat inappropriate 2010 appeal video he produced ^^^ #558.. To suggest that Madeleine was not alive when this image was taken is bizarre if not downright sick, how anyone can take the trouble to produce a short video of this nature is totally beyond my comprehension. This case sure brings out the best and worst in folk.

A belated welcome

to CMOMM theomega

by theomega 02.05.19 18:30

Thanks Verdi for the welcome.

The pale, lifeless, skin-tone, the smudged make-up and hidden bruises (photo-shopped) do at least indicate this most likely outcome for Maddie before she 'vanished'.... sick minds producing a video like this are not my worry, sick minds (ab)using kids are (no accusation of anyone particular as they could all have been or just one)

by coati mundi 03.05.19 23:56

For me the question of when the photo was taken is of less importance than the question of why it was taken and, perhaps even more pertinently, why on earth it was put in to the public domain.

Apart from trying to explain away why and how it was taken, I haven't seen anything from the McCanns explaining why they thought its general release in the media was appropriate.

I stand to be corrected on the last point.

by Verdi 04.05.19 0:47

Your question is shared by many an observer coati mundi, including me. Indeed, the entire content of Jon Corner's 2010 video appeal raises eyebrows, to say the least.

Sadly, it's the people behind sick videos that are feeding the child pornography industry.

Like every insalubrious aspect of life - if you don't feed it, it will starve and die.

by **Mainline** 04.05.19 0:51

I don't recall when I last contributed to this thread in my previous incarnation, and can't search it up. So I will just add what is the most recent information for me personally - I have contacted Jon Corner through three separate means (post, Linkedin, Whatsapp) appealing to him to either release the uncropped version or give a concrete answer on where the photo came from.

All ignored to this point.

I may take a last run at contacting him but he seems loyal to the cause to the end.

by coati mundi 04.05.19 2:13

Verdi,

I don't agree with the paedophilia conspiracy angle. The photo is just another odd, unconsidered thing that these people, who know what really happened, thought would in some way be another thing to make us look in the wrong direction.

I've never seen that video clip before. I'm shocked at some of the editing. Look at way the shot of Madeleine spins into that photo.
The photo is a worrying oddity, but I don't know if it is telling us that much. When do the parents claim it was taken? Is it an attempt to prove she was alive after a certain date?

I would say, though, that I am two minds about this affair. One side of my mind is closed to the idea of the abduction theory. From the first I had doubts about the parents' version. I am now convinced that there is compelling evidence that it cannot be true.

The problem for me is that there is not enough compelling evidence of what did really happen. The evidence of that seems to have been well put away and may never be found.

But....

“I'm a pessimist because of intelligence, but an optimist because of will.”
― Antonio Gramsci, Gramsci's Prison Letters

by Flossy 04.05.19 7:37

tinkier wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
@ bobbin Your points noted. I haven't actually said that Madeleine's pupils are dilated on the Make-Up Photo - I was just asking if other people think they are (compared with her pupils on other photographs, and if yes, what might be the cause of that. We know at least that the Make-Up Photo wasn't taken in direct sunlight

Another cause of dilated pupils, or even unequal pupils is a head injury..in my experience this [size=40]may result in an open wound with visible bleeding or it may result in a closed wound with internal bleeding that cannot be seen. Dilated pupils form a head injury may (but not always) be accompanied with dizziness and nausea. Just throwing this out there as another reason.[/size]

Her pupils don't look dilated at all to me. Certainly not abnormally so. The photo looks like it is taken in shadow, on what appears to be a sunny day. Any mild dilatation of the pupils is easily explained by the fact that she is in shadow.

by Verdi 04.05.19 12:39

Mainline wrote:I don't recall when I last contributed to this thread in my previous incarnation, and can't search it up. So I will just add what is the most recent information for me personally - I have contacted Jon Corner through three separate means (post, Linkedin, Whatsapp) appealing to him to either release the uncropped version or give a concrete answer on where the photo came from.

All ignored to this point.

I may take a last run at contacting him but he seems loyal to the cause to the end.

Oh come on! You didn't really expect any response did you - surely not?

by NickE 04.05.19 17:03

coati mundi wrote:For me the question of when the photo was taken is of less importance than the question of why it was taken and, perhaps even more pertinently, why on earth it was put in to the public domain.

Apart from trying to explain away why and how it was taken, I haven't seen anything from the McCanns explaining why they thought its general release in the media was appropriate.

I stand to be corrected on the last point.

IMO.
I believe it was released for a very bizarre reason.
They claimed from the beginning that she was abducted by paedos, CEOP involved etc. and this photo was released to remind the public how attractive she was for to those "Bastards" and that's why she was a target for them.
It sounds insane but nothing would surprise me

by Verdi 04.05.19 21:42

So beautiful, astonishingly bright, and I’d have to say very charismatic. She would shine out of a crowd. So—God forgive me—maybe that’s part of the problem. That special quality. Some bastard picked up on that.

Jon Corner [Vanity Fair]

by NickE 04.05.19 22:59

Verdi wrote:
So beautiful, astonishingly bright, and I’d have to say very charismatic. She would shine out of a crowd. So—God forgive me—maybe that’s part of the problem. That special quality. Some bastard picked up on that.

Jon Corner [Vanity Fair]

There you have it.
This text and that photo, when combined the question to why they released it is answered.
Some sort of bizarre marketing.
Imo.

by nyxy 20.05.19 8:03

Tony Bennett wrote:Whilst this topic is active on the forum, it may well be useful to post a reminder of why the Make-Up Photo may be critical to a proper understanding of what really happened to Madeleine McCann:

21 reasons for thinking the Make-Up Photo was taken on Sunday 29 April 2007

1 The Make-Up photo first appeared in a 2-minute video made by Jon Corner

2 He clearly had access to the photo in order to make the video.

3 For some reason he was in possession of lots of photos of Madeleine

4 The original story from the McCanns was that it was taken “when Maddie was playing with Mummy’s make-up”, No details of place or time were given

5 That seems unlikely in the extreme. Madeleine is wearing a necklace and a hair-bead/elastic. At the age of three it is impossible that she could have put these on herself.

6 Madeleine clearly has eye shadow, which seems neatly applied and not the sort of mess a child would make. Many observers say she is wearing lipstick and even eye-liner. If we forget about the lipstick and the eyeliner, that still leaves the question of who applied the eye shadow

7 It seems probable that this photograph was not taken on the McCanns’ camera. It certainly wasn’t among the photos handed in to the Portuguese Police by Gerry McCann, Michael Wright and Bell Pottinger’s Head of Risk on 8 and 9 May 2007

8 The background to this photo is a stucco wall apparently of yellow, dark cream or light ochre colour. This is extremely untypical of homes in the United Kingdom but extreme;y typical of houses and apartments on the Algarve coast

9 The presence of what is almost certainly an outside thermometer in the shot is another typical feature of Mediterranean houses

10 Madeleine’s face looks precisely the same age as it is on the so-called ‘Last Photo’, which many have concluded was overwhelmingly likely to have been taken on Sunday lunchtime, Sunday 29 April

11 Madeleine’s hair length is identical to that on the Last Photo

12 Madeleine’s hair colour is identical to that on the Last Photo

13 There are several indications that the Last Photo and the Make-Up photo were aken close together in time

14 In both photos, Madeleine is wearing a pink/white hair-bead or elastic. Admittedly they are in different positions but it is suggestive of an adult dressing her up

15 In both photos, Madeleine is wearing a pink dress or smock, very possibly the same dress

16 The photo is disturbing. We have four pictures of Madeleine enjoying herself on the Saturday and Sunday (Playground Photo, two Wendy House photos, and the ‘Last Photo’). Why does she look vacant, unhappy and sad?

17 Why is her head tipped back like that? Was she asked to pose like that?

18 The cameraman, whoever it was, seems to have taken this photo with the camera held below Madeleine’s waist. Why such a strange camera angle and why is her head tipped back?

19 Why are there no other photos of her in this location? Was this a one-off, or were there more photos of her?

20 Why, if this photo was indeed taken on Sunday 29 April, and if the Last Photo was also taken on 29 April, are there no other confirmed photos of Madeleine that week? (The Tennis Balls Photo doesn’t count, it was said to have been taken by up to three different people on at least two different days. Moreover, the description by Kate McCann of her charging back to get her camera, while Madeleine waited for several minutes holding some tennis balls, doesn’t ring true – see PeterMac’s two chapters on the Tennis Balls Photo in his ebook).

21 Did Madeleine suffer a ‘serious event’ of some kind soon after the Make-Up Photo was taken?

None of these 21 reasons indicate the picture is taken on 29 April and might as well been taken on 3 May or another day on their vacation.

ETA:

Why might this photo have been taken on Sunday 29 April and not later in the week?

Here are at least four good reasons:

1. Madeleine appears to be wearing the same pink dress/smock that she was wearing in the 'Last Photo', which we can be certain was taken on 29 April, the only sunny, warm day that week

2. In both the Last Photo and the Make-Up Photo, Madeleine is wearing a hair bead or piece of elastic. That suggests that someone was dressing her up that day

3. We have no other photos of her that week, apart from the highly dubious and disputed Tennis Balls Photo. Thus the most likely date it was taken was Sunday

4. Lizzy HideHo has shown in her research that there are no credible, independent sightings of Madeleine after Sunday. Once again, that points us to this disturbing Make-Up Photo having been taken on Sunday

Moderator's observation

@nyxy joined today, Monday 20 May 2019. Very first post, straight in there, challenging the very idea that the Make-Up Photo might have been taken in Praia da Luz on Sunday 29 April 2007. Why do some people seem so desperate to avoid this possibility at all costs?

- Moderator

by nyxy 20.05.19 10:50

nyxy wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:Whilst this topic is active on the forum, it may well be useful to post a reminder of why the Make-Up Photo may be critical to a proper understanding of what really happened to Madeleine McCann:

21 reasons for thinking the Make-Up Photo was taken on Sunday 29 April 2007

1 The Make-Up photo first appeared in a 2-minute video made by Jon Corner

2 He clearly had access to the photo in order to make the video.

3 For some reason he was in possession of lots of photos of Madeleine

4 The original story from the McCanns was that it was taken “when Maddie was playing with Mummy’s make-up”, No details of place or time were given

5 That seems unlikely in the extreme. Madeleine is wearing a necklace and a hair-bead/elastic. At the age of three it is impossible that she could have put these on herself.

6 Madeleine clearly has eye shadow, which seems neatly applied and not the sort of mess a child would make. Many observers say she is wearing lipstick and even eye-liner. If we forget about the lipstick and the eyeliner, that still leaves the question of who applied the eye shadow

7 It seems probable that this photograph was not taken on the McCanns’ camera. It certainly wasn’t among the photos handed in to the Portuguese Police by Gerry McCann, Michael Wright and Bell Pottinger’s Head of Risk on 8 and 9 May 2007

8 The background to this photo is a stucco wall apparently of yellow, dark cream or light ochre colour. This is extremely untypical of homes in the United Kingdom but extreme;y typical of houses and apartments on the Algarve coast

9 The presence of what is almost certainly an outside thermometer in the shot is another typical feature of Mediterranean houses

10 Madeleine’s face looks precisely the same age as it is on the so-called ‘Last Photo’, which many have concluded was overwhelmingly likely to have been taken on Sunday lunchtime, Sunday 29 April

11 Madeleine’s hair length is identical to that on the Last Photo

12 Madeleine’s hair colour is identical to that on the Last Photo

13 There are several indications that the Last Photo and the Make-Up photo were aken close together in time

14 In both photos, Madeleine is wearing a pink/white hair-bead or elastic. Admittedly they are in different positions but it is suggestive of an adult dressing her up

15 In both photos, Madeleine is wearing a pink dress or smock, very possibly the same dress

16 The photo is disturbing. We have four pictures of Madeleine enjoying herself on the Saturday and Sunday (Playground Photo, two Wendy House photos, and the ‘Last Photo’). Why does she look vacant, unhappy and sad?

17 Why is her head tipped back like that? Was she asked to pose like that?

18 The cameraman, whoever it was, seems to have taken this photo with the camera held below Madeleine’s waist. Why such a strange camera angle and why is her head tipped back?

19 Why are there no other photos of her in this location? Was this a one-off, or were there more photos of her?

20 Why, if this photo was indeed taken on Sunday 29 April, and if the Last Photo was also taken on 29 April, are there no other confirmed photos of Madeleine that week? (The Tennis Balls Photo doesn’t count, it was said to have been taken by up to three different people on at least two different days. Moreover, the description by Kate McCann of her charging back to get her camera, while Madeleine waited for several minutes holding some tennis balls, doesn’t ring true – see PeterMac’s two chapters on the Tennis Balls Photo in his ebook).

21 Did Madeleine suffer a ‘serious event’ of some kind soon after the Make-Up Photo was taken?
None of these 21 reasons indicate the picture is taken on 29 April and might as well been taken on 3 May or another day on their vacation.

ETA:

Why might this photo have been taken on Sunday 29 April and not later in the week?

Here are at least four good reasons:

1. Madeleine appears to be wearing the same pink dress/smock that she was wearing in the 'Last Photo', which we can be certain was taken on 29 April, the only sunny, warm day that week

2. In both the Last Photo and the Make-Up Photo, Madeleine is wearing a hair bead or piece of elastic. That suggests that someone was dressing her up that day

3. We have no other photos of her that week, apart from the highly dubious and disputed Tennis Balls Photo. Thus the most likely date it was taken was Sunday

4. Lizzy HideHo has shown in her research that there are no credible, independent sightings of Madeleine after Sunday. Once again, that points us to this disturbing Make-Up Photo having been taken on Sunday

Moderator's observation

@nyxy  joined today, Monday 20 May 2019. Very first post, straight in there, challenging the very idea that the Make-Up Photo might have been taken in Praia da Luz on Sunday 29 April 2007. Why do some people seem so desperate to avoid this possibility at all costs?

- Moderator

How am I avoiding the possibility by merely saying that those 21 reason given don't necessarily indicate it was taken on 29?

It seems rather you Moderator are very desperate to propagate your theory that it must have been on 29 and so invested in it that you're trying to make the evidence fit your narrative.

I am actually exploring that possibility but I don't take anyone's opinions as gospel. Those 4 reasons you give can indicate that the picture was taken on or around 29.

Also said it wrong and what I meant to say is that a lot of those 21 reasons don't indicate it was taken on 29 April.
I think there are some well laid out arguments on both side of the fence whether it be 3 May or in the days before.
And I am certainly not excluding either possibility.

by nyxy 20.05.19 11:18

I thought this was a forum for open minded discussion about this case. Not where you as a moderator start calling new members "desperate to avoid a possibility" because they merely question some of the assumptions you make.

Why alienate new members like this? Do you call everyone that doesn't agree with all your assumptions at the drop of a dime desperate, is this really how you intend to persuade others of your own narrative?
It is very ironic because I am actually more in favor that something happened earlier then 3 May.

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo?