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The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by plebgate on 19.06.16 6:52

I think you have missed the point of my post and are more concerned about dehumanising issues than what this thread is about.

I do not know what Maria had to say, but I note that you posted that you hope the mods give her a chance to explain her comments.   Well that is a very wonderful gesture  from you I am sure, as long as mods note that you have been dehumanised.  

All very dramatic imo.  Dehumanized on a forum, that's a new one on me - upset and hurt maybe, but come on.

I have just noticed what Maria said.  AFAIK oop North it's a common enough expression but I may be wrong of course.

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 19.06.16 7:47

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@whodunit wrote:
@Maria wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Morning Tony  -  This is what whodunnit said in one post at HDH:

The only rationale is that it did not happen and that s/he (whodunnit) had given proof. That sounded to me as though whodunnit was claiming it as a fact.
Hi plebgate,

whodunit's post was clearly based on a sound reasoning of logic - though that doesn't absolutely prove his conclusion was right.

The logical steps were:

1. Mrs Fenn was interviewed on 3 or 4 May

2. When interviewed on 20 August it was to give 'new evidence' i.e. re the crying incident and burglary

3. Ergo, she could not have mentioned this 'new evidence' when first questioned on 3 or 4 May.


Re the word 'rationale':

 
ra·tion·ale
ˌraSHəˈnal/
noun
noun: rationale; plural noun: rationales
Woo hoooo, so ar ya gonna give hideho the same support as you give this thing, Hdeho's post was based on even more reasoning sounding logic, no?  
Facts and logical thinking are much more believable than makebelieve.
splat <<  Kind of how I felt reading this post. Maria, regardless of how you feel about the quality of my logic, do you really mean to dehumanize me? No matter our various differences, I would still hope we can extend each other at least the small courtesy of ackowledging each other's humanity. Just so you know, I'm a woman with a wonderful husband of 34 years, 2 fabulous children, and 2 beautiful grandchildren. I am not some 'thing'.
What a truly appalling thing to say to a fellow member @ Maria.

I am afraid it is always the case than when a debater resorts to abuse of his/her opponent, and in this case making such a vile statement about a fellow-member, that they have lost the argument.

I am sure that when HideHo comes along in due course, she will support me and whodunit in outright condemnation of resorting to such vile abuse in support of her views.

I've had a message from Maria and she says her comment about "this thing" was actually referring to this part of your post, and not to 'whodunnit'

Re the word 'rationale':

 
ra·tion·ale
ˌraSHəˈnal/
noun
noun: rationale; plural noun: rationales


She wants to convey her apologies to whodunnit and plebgate for her post being misunderstood.
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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by plebgate on 19.06.16 8:00

Thanks GEG I do not need an apology from Maria and I don't understand why she thinks I need an apology, thanks anyway Maria.

I can understand though the comment in relation to the rationale word as it seems I need it to be explained to me as I am not capable of logical/reasoned debate nor is anyone else who has a differing view (on this matter).

Thanks again GEG and I am surprised that Maria thought I needed an apology.

ETA  -  Onwards and upwards as usual.

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by dottyaussie on 19.06.16 11:39

Well that was all a bit harsh. A simple 'Could you please explain your post' would've sufficed. Referring to what was said about Maria's post.
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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by Guest on 19.06.16 12:31

Plebgate is entitled to post an opinion on a matter which involves him/her.
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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by dottyaussie on 19.06.16 12:36

@ Ladyinred I've just edited my post  smilie
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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by Guest on 19.06.16 14:06

@whodunit wrote:@Ladyinred--I just read a post from you on my phone but as I open the forum on my desk top it is no longer there? I will say I do not support banning Maria for her remarks but am in favor of allowing her to respond to my post.

Thanks again @Tony Bennett for your support.



I posted to say that Maria had been banned but another Mod had already posted, so I deleted mine.
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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by MRNOODLES on 19.06.16 15:12

I've come into this topic a bit late, but have gone through it from the start.  To me the CF involvement in getting to the bottom of the MM mystery is just another route to getting dragged down a rabbit hole.

My hypothesis.  The McCs were the ones to cry paedophiles at the start, right?  Maybe, maybe not, because of the alleged numbers knocking around that area.  CF thinks 'bugger this is a bit close to home, there's a possibility of exposure here'.   So the manipulative dirty sod befriends the McCs to see what he can glean from them to help save his sorry arse from being exposed. If for example a mate or a mate of a mate is some way involved in it.  Fill them with booze, smooth talk them and loosen their lips.
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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by Michael99 on 21.08.16 16:36

Does anyone have the original grange photo gallery of suspects,.

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by skyrocket on 08.09.16 12:37

Today's post on Russell O'Brien triggered a bit of lunch time reading of his Rog statement.

I'm posting on this thread because page 2 contains a post of mine which details why I think it's possible that the Mcs were actually staying in 5H and the Paynes in 5A, until a reversal just before the 'abduction' was exposed, for obvious logistical reasons i.e. abduction from the first floor would have been an even less believable scenario. 

Scanning through ROB's Rogatory today I came across the following possible slip of the tongue, much along the lines of Dianne Webster's (I've left the bit in about checking on Sunday night!):


 1578    “Did you get inside the holiday apartment'”
 Reply    “I’d been in, I’d been in their apartment twice, I think before, I don’t know on tape at least, but err I went, I did a visual check of the children on the Sunday night, entered through the patio door so I’d been in through that part of the door err that part of the building. Err I think until, actually until the night itself I don’t think I’d actually gone into their apartment again, err if there were lunches and things like that they were generally done in, in one of the other apartments, particularly Kate and, err Dave and Fi’s because it was so much bigger. 
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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by HelenMeg on 08.09.16 14:02

yes good spot - sometimes it seems to help to throw the spotlight on one of the tapas 9  and zoo in on them and their weaknesses

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Ref;Possible dry run

Post by willowthewisp on 08.09.16 15:20

@HelenMeg wrote:yes good spot - sometimes it seems to help to throw the spotlight on one of the tapas 9  and zoo in on them and their weaknesses
Can it be proven that the person's allocated their rooms on arrival to the complex,stopped in the apartments room given by Ocean Club Complex personel,that Kate,Gerry, Madeleine,Sean and Amelia,had been in Apartment 5a and had at no time switched from 5h?
I say this as one of the Tapas 9,had described a different apartment set up to the Portugal PJ,as per their statement's,was this Russell?

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by Doug D on 08.09.16 16:02

No, MO, green curtains & two windows (two panes of glass I suppose).


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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by worriedmum on 08.09.16 18:55

@Doug D wrote:No, MO, green curtains & two windows (two panes of glass I suppose).




I don't think I have ever heard anyone describe panes of glass as windows
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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by MayMuse on 08.09.16 20:06

@skyrocket wrote:Today's post on Russell O'Brien triggered a bit of lunch time reading of his Rog statement.

I'm posting on this thread because page 2 contains a post of mine which details why I think it's possible that the Mcs were actually staying in 5H and the Paynes in 5A, until a reversal just before the 'abduction' was exposed, for obvious logistical reasons i.e. abduction from the first floor would have been an even less believable scenario. 

Scanning through ROB's Rogatory today I came across the following possible slip of the tongue, much along the lines of Dianne Webster's (I've left the bit in about checking on Sunday night!):


 1578    “Did you get inside the holiday apartment'”
 Reply    “I’d been in, I’d been in their apartment twice, I think before, I don’t know on tape at least, but err I went, I did a visual check of the children on the Sunday night, entered through the patio door so I’d been in through that part of the door err that part of the building. Err I think until, actually until the night itself I don’t think I’d actually gone into their apartment again, err if there were lunches and things like that they were generally done in, in one of the other apartments, particularly Kate and, err Dave and Fi’s because it was so much bigger. 
Want does he mean by " on tape at least"? 

I've thought too that 5a wasn't their original apartment, but then again I've also thought that Madeleine slept in the opposite bed by the window and not the one purported, as this was to corroborate MO's statement that he could only have visualised the twins? 
Not that I actually believe his "story" but it makes sense in my mind and one of the things that made it even clearer for me that so much of this case was a fabrication! 
IMO

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by skyrocket on 08.09.16 22:18

@MayMuse - good question. Can't be easy for any of them - remembering what they should and shouldn't be saying; what they have and haven't said in past statements. That's the problem with telling porky pies.

Stephen Carpenter was handed an envelope with a letter in it which he was asked to read before saying anything in his April 2008 interview. All he says after reading it is, "yes, that's fine."

Also, Paul Gordon, former 5A occupant intimates in his April 2008 statement that contact from the Mc camp (specifically Brian Kennedy and the Mcs themselves) had made it difficult for him to perhaps say what he wanted, he says, "There are certain times when I feel like a pawn in chess."

Re: the beds in 'Madeleine's" bedroom, if the Paynes were in 5A, I think Dianne could have been using the bed by the window with Lily in the single cot in the same room (Scarlet being in the second cot in the second bedroom, as described by Maria the cleaner). This could be the reason the cot locations is such a touchy subject for both the Mcs.
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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by MayMuse on 08.09.16 22:27

@skyrocket wrote:@MayMuse - good question. Can't be easy for any of them - remembering what they should and shouldn't be saying; what they have and haven't said in past statements. That's the problem with telling porky pies.

Stephen Carpenter was handed an envelope with a letter in it which he was asked to read before saying anything in his April 2008 interview. All he says after reading it is, "yes, that's fine."

Also, Paul Gordon, former 5A occupant intimates in his April 2008 statement that contact from the Mc camp (specifically Brian Kennedy and the Mcs themselves) had made it difficult for him to perhaps say what he wanted, he says, "There are certain times when I feel like a pawn in chess."

Re: the beds in 'Madeleine's" bedroom, if the Paynes were in 5A, I think Dianne could have been using the bed by the window with Lily in the single cot in the same room (Scarlet being in the second cot in the second bedroom, as described by Maria the cleaner). This could be the reason the cot locations is such a touchy subject for both the Mcs.
@Skyrocket Thanks for responding, who handed SC the letter? 
Re the beds, yes that sounds very plausible if 5A was the Paynes. 
So do we have a layout of the Paynes apartment? Were their curtains "green"?

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by skyrocket on 08.09.16 22:41

@MayMuse

The interviewing officer, DC Sophie Ferguson of Leicestershire Police, gave Carpenter the letter.

I can't copy and paste easily on the tablet I'm using but if you google 'Eddie and Keela youtube' and click on the 1 hour 37 min video of Martin Grime's searches, the inside of 5H is shown about 2/3rds of the way in. I don't think the curtains were green, off the top of my head.
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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by Verdi on 08.09.16 23:11

I think it's important to question whether or not one truly believes that Gerry and Kate McCann left three very vulnerable young children alone leaving the patio door unlocked on the night of 3rd May, or any other night, to allow access for their friends to check on their children.  If you are in any doubt then who went in, when and why becomes an irrelevance.

If you believe they did leave the patio door unlocked, you then need to ask why they would do that.  There was no apparent reason for their friends to check their children when they were regularly checking themselves - especially when you consider the fact that the groups version of the checking event varied from one witness to the next.

Would you leave any door unlocked whilst you were out, day or night, at a holiday apartment or hotel room even without children therein?  I wouldn't.

HiDeHo is very meticulous - HiDeHo is looking for help in comparing statements for any one hour relating to 3rd May.  Help HiDeHo with her latest project and you will eventually see that not one of the Tapas groups account of events will tally with the others.  That is what HiDeHo is aiming to establish - far more constructive in my opinion than isolating random ramblings from witness statements that aren't even remotely coherent let alone believable.

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by MayMuse on 08.09.16 23:12

@skyrocket wrote:@MayMuse

The interviewing officer, DC Sophie Ferguson of Leicestershire Police, gave Carpenter the letter.

I can't copy and paste easily on the tablet I'm using but if you google 'Eddie and Keela youtube' and click on the 1 hour 37 min video of Martin Grime's searches, the inside of 5H is shown about 2/3rds of the way in. I don't think the curtains were green, off the top of my head
Thank you will go and view  winkwink

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by MayMuse on 08.09.16 23:20

@Verdi wrote:I think it's important to question whether or not one truly believes that Gerry and Kate McCann left three very vulnerable young children alone leaving the patio door unlocked on the night of 3rd May, or any other night, to allow access for their friends to check on their children.  If you are in any doubt then who went in, when and why becomes an irrelevance.

If you believe they did leave the patio door unlocked, you then need to ask why they would do that.  There was no apparent reason for their friends to check their children when they were regularly checking themselves - especially when you consider the fact that the groups version of the checking event varied from one witness to the next.

Would you leave any door unlocked whilst you were out, day or night, at a holiday apartment or hotel room even without children therein?  I wouldn't.

HiDeHo is very meticulous - HiDeHo is looking for help in comparing statements for any one hour relating to 3rd May.  Help HiDeHo with her latest project and you will eventually see that not one of the Tapas groups account of events will tally with the others.  That is what HiDeHo is aiming to establish - far more constructive in my opinion than isolating random ramblings from witness statements that aren't even remotely coherent let alone believable.
After you Verdi, you take an hour and I will; which time would you like?

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Dry run

Post by tnb on 08.09.16 23:29

Why are some peeps getting their pants in a twist...THERE WAS NO DRY RUN......no need to discuss

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by Verdi on 09.09.16 0:07

@MayMuse wrote:After you Verdi, you take an hour and I will; which time would you like?
I am not trying to make an issue out of something I don't believe ever happened.
 
I am not of the same ilk as HiDeHo - she far exceeds my level of ability, I would be of no assistance.

I am a rubbish researcher - too easily distracted to stick meticulously to any one subject.

I do not have the time nor the patience to try and fathom what I consider to be a fabricated story-line.

By the way, my post was not directed at you personally.

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Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Post by whodunit on 09.09.16 0:12

@tnb wrote:Why are some peeps getting their pants in a twist...THERE WAS NO DRY RUN......no need to discuss

Nobody in this thread is saying there was an actual dry run by an actual abductor.* The prevailing theory is Team McCann implied/claimed an alleged dry run by an alleged abductor by ~*fabricating*~ the alleged crying incident. 

*Although people who swear by Mrs. Fenn's late-coming statement all seem to agree by and large with the 'official narrative' of MBM's disappearance.
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