Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

by MRNOODLES 28.04.15 22:04

HelenMeg wrote:Scouring for comment on this :

1. Courtesy of the 'blacksmith bureau'
Editor John Blacksmith regrets…
28 April 2015 19:02

That he’s away from his desk. Changing his underwear.

2. Courtesy of Textusa blogspot

Textusa28 Apr 2015, 20:15:00
About what we have been told about the trial decision let's wait and see, let's wait for the snow to settle in the globe shall we?

IF all we've heard is true, then only surprised by the amount, not by decision.

However, many things smell foul. Are illogical and go against Portuguese Constitution.

So we prefer to read original document before saying anything.

When book was banned, it was bad news, wasn't it?

Chin up, please!

IIRC did Textusa suggest in a past blog that the MCs would prefer to lose or settle out of court as the whole caper would be dropped sooner. Now that they've won, it keeps the caper going as they know full well Dr. A will go through the appeal process lasting many more months.

by HelenMeg 28.04.15 22:06

Courtesy of and with huge thanks to Textusa's blogspot -

Anonymous28 Apr 2015, 21:46:00
https://www.facebook.com/groups/HiDeHoCONTROVERSYofMadeleineMcCann/permalink/469071919915969/

Nicked from HdH on FB:

UPDATE

As of 20.00 neither Mr Amaral nor his lawyer had been notified of any decision and as far as we are aware, this has not changed within the last hour or so.

As you can imagine, this means that they are not in receipt of any verdict.

The above, also means that any requests from the press or news agencies can only be met with ' no comment'.

As a consequence, what you are reading in the press can only feature comments from the Mccanns' representatives and is therefore one sided and unbalanced.

If these reports are correct then this decision certainly contains an unprecedented Sum of damages to be awarded throughout Portuguese history. I'm lead to believe that even severe physical injury or death would not be met with such an award.

Many are left astonished and this is partly due to information that had been read from the court in January ( link provided) where it was communicated which issues were ' proven' or ' not proven' and partly due to the amount that is at stake.

We believe that an appeal will be launched as soon as official confirmation is received and this will obviously incur costs.

We have been asked numerous times today whether members could set up a fund. A fund for Legal costs already exists. ( linked)

Without the support of Our members, it is certain that Mr Amaral would not be where he is in this process at all, and whilst he feels forever embarrassed, he is deeply grateful.

This will not be over.

A decision from a Portuguese court can only be enforced, once the appeals process is exhausted.
No award will be paid until a final decision is reached by the very last appeals court.

We have seen this before.

We will update you as soon as we can.

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic24300.html

by Verdi 28.04.15 22:11

I've always looked on this trial as an elaborate game of cat and mouse or Kat and Gerry. Better still T9 v. K9?

Any chance do you think of Poulton's documentary now hitting the road, or is it to be delayed pending return of the Portuguese judiciary after summer recess or maybe she awaits doomsday.

by Tangled Web 28.04.15 22:15

So I guess if GA is appealing, he will need to justify the writing of the book and its contents?

I'll look forward to seeing all those details published in the MSM then?! titter

by Guest 28.04.15 22:26

Goñcalo's going to needs financial support, let's act and contribute.

by Letterwriter 28.04.15 22:28

Verdi wrote:I've always looked on this trial as an elaborate game of cat and mouse or Kat and Gerry. Better still T9 v. K9?

Any chance do you think of Poulton's documentary now hitting the road, or is it to be delayed pending return of the Portuguese judiciary after summer recess or maybe she awaits doomsday.

...K9 over T9

Of course, this isn't a game of poker or maths or even right and wrong.

Just look at the recent UK parking charge case of Beavis. The judiciary are going out of their way to overturn decades of contract and tort principles in order to find for the big corporate with political sway rather than the ordinary guy who only wants fairness and adherence to long established common law principles. It's like the bank charges ruling all over again. Get down proles, get down!

But then, who ever gave you the idea that the courts and the police were founded for the "common man". The police were founded by toffs who were sick of being mugged. The House of Commons have never been staffed by "commoners" as you and I know it - they might be common in terms of not being Lords, but that's not the same as being the bloke on the Clapham omnibus.

Get connected or get bent over. That's not new. It's the way it's always been. We expect different then get disappointed when it doesn't happen.

by sallypelt 28.04.15 22:35

According to tomorrow's Daily Express front page, "Detective did lie about death cover up claim"

I can't copy and paste the front page, but it's on this link:

http://news.sky.com/gallery/1473997/wednesdays-newspaper-front-pages

by **Tony Bennett** 28.04.15 22:35

The decision of Portugal's 2nd highest appeal court - the Court of Appeal, 20 October 2010 - later confirmed by their highest court, the Portuguese Supreme Court, in March 2011, with Dr Gerald McCann and Dr Kate McCann being awarded costs against them for both hearings - worth repeating now I think:

QUOTE

The Court’s conclusions

We thus arrive at this conclusion. It seems important to stress the following:

The indicative facts that led to the McCanns being made formal suspects [arguidos] in the initial investigation were not deemed by the Ministry of Justice to be sufficient to lead to anyone being charged with any criminal offence. But those very same facts, seen through another prism and from another foundation, may well lead to a different conclusion from that reached by the Justice Ministry. The evidence that was deemed to be insufficient for a criminal prosecution can be understood in a different way, for example in an interpretation that can quite legitimately be published as a work of literature, so long as the said interpretation does not offend the fundamental rights of anyone involved. And as we have stated above, we have explained why the interpretation in Dr Amaral’s book does not offend the McCanns’ rights.

To sum up: The main purpose of the book at issue in these proceedings - ‘Maddie: The Truth About A Lie’ - which was written by the defendant, Dr Goncalo Amaral – is to defend his personal and professional integrity, as the author himself points out straightaway in his preface, and throughout the text.

The contents of the book do not violate any of the McCanns’ [the applicants’] fundamental rights.

The actions of its being written and published are justified under the constitutional rights which belong to all of us by virtue of the European Convention on Human Rights and by Articles 37 and 38 of the Portuguese Republic’s Constitution.

The Court’s judgment

Since that is the view we have taken on the matter, it follows that the decision made by the court [in September 2009 and confirmed by the court in February 2010] must be revoked.

The appeal by the defendant Goncalo Amaral in these proceedings is therefore allowed.

UNQUOTE

It ain't over until the fat lady sings

by Mo 28.04.15 22:43

I am confused now? How can the Judge in the Damages Trial now ban his book????

by sallypelt 28.04.15 22:47

Madeleine McCann: back on the front pages, libel and Goncalo Amaral is ruined

Madeleine McCann’s parents Gerry and Kate McCann have won £357,000 (Daily Telegraph) after successfully suing ex-police chief Goncalo Amaral. The former Portuguese policeman suggested in his book The Truth Of The Lie that the couple had faked their daughter’s abduction. That view was defamatory.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/417476/madeleine-mccann/madeleine-mccann-back-on-the-front-pages-libel-and-goncalo-amaral-is-ruined.html/

by rustyjames 28.04.15 22:57

Just read the news and caught up with this thread - speechless and gutted for Goncalo, but will have to wait for the other side of the story and what is going to happen next.

by j.rob 28.04.15 22:58

sharonl wrote:How could a court place a second ban on a book when the original ban was overturned by a higher court?

Anyway, Goncalo Amaral may have left the court with his pockets empty but he also left with his head held high retaining his dignity and his credibility and the support of millions of friends and well wishers worldwide. He will recover from this, he may even continue and take this further. If not, its over for him and he can move on.

As for his opponents, they are left with a small fortune that wont last long, a few dodgy friends in high places, lost credibility and always under suspicion. They have to go through the rest of their lives knowing that millions are sceptical of their claims that Madeleine was abducted. Then they have the campaign for justice to deal with, not to mention the possibility of the truth coming out one day or even the twins, when they are old enough, starting their own campaign to find out what really happened. This is never going to go away for the McCanns.

Goncalo Amaral has the important things in life, things that money cannot buy, the McCanns have lost all of that.

We now need to wait and see what Amaral is going to do, then lend him all the support that we possibly can. IMO, he is always a winner.

by onthecase 28.04.15 23:17

TMH wrote:I'm shocked beyond words.................

me too !! gutted dontgetit

by aiyoyo 28.04.15 23:48

HelenMeg wrote:
Snipped

As of 20.00 neither Mr Amaral nor his lawyer had been notified of any decision and as far as we are aware, this has not changed within the last hour or so.

I don't get it.

The whole world and its dog been told of the verdict, how come Amaral and his lawyer are still in the dark? And..... the decision to appeal ?.... when he hasn't been informed?

Something is not right here. Who leaks to the Portuguese Press ?

We can guess who leaks to the UK press, not difficult to deduce, now that the on-off-official pink slug has spoken.

by lj 28.04.15 23:59

aquila wrote:
tungsten tel wrote:Im now completely done with the so called establishment. Ive had a couple of bad weeks being shafted by an agency whilst working abroad and I can't do a thing. Just like the McCanns , nobody can do a thing. Fucking bullet proof......
Money buys law. The law isn't about justice. The law is about buying the best lawyers to fight your case. Whatever people think, justice and the law are not easy bedfellows. Even in a simple divorce for an average person everyone becomes an expert on justice and tell you the law. It ain't about justice it's about points of law and who can afford the better lawyer.

The fact the McCanns can afford the best lawyers is down to who supports them financially. They can't afford it personally on their now single salary as Kate gave up work and her effort into writing her book proclaimed that all would be ploughed into the Fund. There are a lot of sharks out there and I don't think for one minute the McCanns are sponsored by pensioners, children and fundraising activities. Their accounts don't show public donations that demonstrate this.

As for yourself tungsten tel....here's a hug

I agree. I have been actively, passively and on the sideline been involved in a couple of court cases and their course was always very unpredictable, with money being the big winner of money. Judges often are very hesitant to make unpopular decisions too.

I am still baffled though how Dr. Amaral's lawyer still has not been advised. I wonder if Dr. Amaral has more enemies higher up than we realize.

by lj 29.04.15 0:02

snook wrote:
aquila wrote:Here comes Sky News headline today (my bolding/underlining etc)

McCanns 'Delighted' With £433k Libel Victory
Kate and Gerry McCann say their legal action "was never about money" after winning a two-year libel trial in Portugal.

http://news.sky.com/story/1473806/mccanns-delighted-with-433k-libel-victory

In the body copy...

"We want to emphasise that the action was never about money. It has always been focused on the effects of the libels on our other children and the damage that was done to the search for Madeleine," they said in a statement.
"A lot has changed in the last six years since we started the action and we are pleased that there is an active investigation in both Portugal and the UK.

And what exactly would the effect on the other children be ? To show their parents up as the liars they are. Oh, and just what has changed in six years ? proof of abduction ? confirmed sighting ? I cannot begin to describe the contempt I hold for the despicable pair.

They cannot keep the truth from their children. That is how justice for Madeleine will be served. The twins will find out one day what a pathetic parents they have.

by Who?What?Where? 29.04.15 0:39

I understand that my question's may seem naive to some legal professionals' but I do not understand this decision.

Here are the fact's, (more usually called thought's), as presented to me by the media and various internet forums...

The McCann's had a theory about what happened to Madeleine. Goncarlo Amaral had a different theory.

The real fact's about what happened to Madeleine have never been established in a Court of Law.

Therefore it is just one theory, being presented against another theory, with nothing having been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The media, apparently, stated that the court ruling was because Goncalo Amaral had used privileged information. WTF?

Are they being serious?

Is that correct?

How much more priveliged information do the Tapas9/10/ (whatever number you care to choose) have, considering that they were the last one's to see Madeleine alive and Amaral only got thrown into the mix a long time later?

Do the Math's. It does not add up.

by TheTruthWillOut 29.04.15 0:59

The biggest problem here is how the verdict papers, delivered by the supposed neutral party....the courts/judge, allowed them to only get to the McCanns' lawyer. Who then release it to the press.

Should be null and void.

by stillsloppingout 29.04.15 1:14

I got wind of the result prior to Brunt on Sky . But waited until his report to post .
I have said what my position is re this case ,being there literally from the start .
Today's verdict is not only is a travesty, it also has confirmed my suspicions re a person who has a blog site who takes delight in attacking forum members, and tries to give the impression he knows ( insider info ) what direction this case is taking . At the deproment and worse of whoever questions his opinion
You suggested " no white wash "the libel trial was going well " I'm not quoting you exactly because quite frankly I can't be arsed, you can't kid a kidder I know a bullshitter when I see or in this case read them . You hedged your bets you lost now do us all a favour and f@ck off.
or have the grace to never call us , the filth you have spouted . You like us have no idea .
Ps any relation to the McCanns ?

by lj 29.04.15 1:43

stillsloppingout wrote:I got wind of the result prior to Brunt on Sky . But waited until his report to post .
I have said what my position is re this case ,being there literally from the start .
Today's verdict is not only is a travesty, it also has confirmed my suspicions re a person who has a blog site who takes delight in attacking forum members, and tries to give the impression he knows ( insider info ) what direction this case is taking . At the deproment and worse of whoever questions his opinion
You suggested " no white wash "the libel trial was going well " I'm not quoting you exactly because quite frankly I can't be arsed, you can't kid a kidder I know a bullshitter when I see or in this case read them . You hedged your bets you lost now do us all a favour and f@ck off.
or have the grace to never call us , the filth you have spouted . You like us have no idea .
Ps any relation to the McCanns ?

Someone must still have given it to the press circuit.

Yeah that person was of his rocker lately.

by sonic72 29.04.15 2:17

aiyoyo wrote:I don't get it.

The whole world and its dog been told of the verdict, how come Amaral and his lawyer are still in the dark? And..... the decision to appeal ?.... when he hasn't been informed?

Something is not right here. Who leaks to the Portuguese Press ?

We can guess who leaks to the UK press, not difficult to deduce, now that the on-off-official pink slug has spoken.

Perhaps it's just spin to mislead the public before the real verdict comes out, which they will lose, and that loss wont be reported in the MSM.

There can be no other explanation, the judge would not tell one side only.

by suzyjohnson 29.04.15 4:09

Who?What?Where? wrote:I understand that my question's may seem naive to some legal professionals' but I do not understand this decision.

Here are the fact's, (more usually called thought's), as presented to me by the media and various internet forums...

The McCann's had a theory about what happened to Madeleine. Goncarlo Amaral had a different theory.

The real fact's about what happened to Madeleine have never been established in a Court of Law.

Therefore it is just one theory, being presented against another theory, with nothing having been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The media, apparently, stated that the court ruling was because Goncalo Amaral had used privileged information. WTF?

...... Doesn't that suggest then that Amaral would be in a position to know?

by suzyjohnson 29.04.15 4:15

sonic72 wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:I don't get it.

The whole world and its dog been told of the verdict, how come Amaral and his lawyer are still in the dark? And..... the decision to appeal ?.... when he hasn't been informed?

Something is not right here. Who leaks to the Portuguese Press ?

We can guess who leaks to the UK press, not difficult to deduce, now that the on-off-official pink slug has spoken.
Perhaps it's just spin to mislead the public before the real verdict comes out, which they will lose, and that loss wont be reported in the MSM.

There can be no other explanation, the judge would not tell one side only.

Yes, this will be McCann side only. Showing themselves in the best light possible. If they had been awarded £100, they would still have announced to the press that they had won, because, guilty or innocent of involvement in MM's disappearance, it is in their interests to do so.

by Montclair 29.04.15 4:19

aiyoyo wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
Snipped

As of 20.00 neither Mr Amaral nor his lawyer had been notified of any decision and as far as we are aware, this has not changed within the last hour or so.

I don't get it.

The whole world and its dog been told of the verdict, how come Amaral and his lawyer are still in the dark? And..... the decision to appeal ?.... when he hasn't been informed?

Something is not right here. Who leaks to the Portuguese Press ?

We can guess who leaks to the UK press, not difficult to deduce, now that the on-off-official pink slug has spoken.

It appears that none of the lawyers, including Isabel Duarte, have received the official verdict through the Citius site. Of course, there will be appeals, so it is early to say who has won or who has lost the case.

by Bishop Brennan 29.04.15 4:37

Some clues are beginning to emerge to explain the apparent disconnect between the judge's published 'findings' and the extraordinarily large settlement amount just handed down. It may well be that the lawyers / judge have located a technicality on which base it:

"In the 52-page document, seen by The Portugal News shortly after the ruling was released, repeated references are made to the fact that the date of the release of Amaral’s book (24 July 2008), took place only three days after the Portuguese Attorney-General’s office decided to shelve the case.

Isabel Duarte had argued that Amaral used privileged information in the book, with the court ruling that Amaral's freedom of expression was limited by his position as a former police detective and lead investigator in the case."

To me this suggests the following:

a) It is the timing of the book and Amaral's position that the court are hammering. Although he was no longer a policeman, he had "inside" knowledge with which to write the book. The court has concluded that he must have written it BEFORE the case files were released. The fact that it was PUBLISHED after the case files seems to have been an insufficient defence.

The motivation to use a technicality to award a record sum of damages is open to debate - but is likely to be presented as a "warning" to other policemen who might want to write a book on cases they have investigated.

The other conclusion that appears to be valid is :

b) If you claim in court that you were caused hurt / pain, then the court will accept that - no objective proof is required. Full damages were awarded to the McCanns, and none to Maddie or the twins who could not appear in court to claim hurt.