Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: British Police / Government Interference :: 'Operation Grange' set up by ex-Prime Minister David Cameron
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
ps
even a layman knows that giving children caffeine before bed will not aid sleep
even a layman knows that giving children caffeine before bed will not aid sleep
Dont Make Me Laff- Posts : 304
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
And she was not there at lunchtime on 3rd May as the Last Photo is a forgeryDont Make Me Laff wrote:Lets not forget that Dr. David Payne said all 3 children were dressed in WHITE and looked like errrm angels
Surely if there was a BIG BROWN TEA stain he would have noticed it after all he was there for eeerm 30 minutes
Even if he was there for ONLY 30 seconds he would have noticed a big brown mark
IMO the fact is MBM was not there the evening of 3rd of May 2007 and DP is making it up. He is a liar
And she was not there . . . .
And gradually the whole thing is unravelling
Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
And have you ever tried to remove a big stain of any colour without special detergent and stain remover and machine was and even then it doesn;t wash out and never really does because big dry stains are set.PeterMac wrote:And she was not there at lunchtime on 3rd May as the Last Photo is a forgeryDont Make Me Laff wrote:Lets not forget that Dr. David Payne said all 3 children were dressed in WHITE and looked like errrm angels
Surely if there was a BIG BROWN TEA stain he would have noticed it after all he was there for eeerm 30 minutes
Even if he was there for ONLY 30 seconds he would have noticed a big brown mark
IMO the fact is MBM was not there the evening of 3rd of May 2007 and DP is making it up. He is a liar
And she was not there . . . .
And gradually the whole thing is unravelling
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Nina wrote:And have you ever tried to remove a big stain of any colour without special detergent and stain remover and machine was and even then it doesn;t wash out and never really does because big dry stains are set.
Exactly Nina. I look at my brand new white tea towels and notice tea stains on them which several 40 degree washes with Persil, stain remover etc have still not managed to get rid of. Tea stains remind of dried blood stains in colour and both are stubborn to remove. The thing to do with freshly spilt stains is to plunge them in cold water as soon as possible to stop the stain from developing. Then wash them on a high temperature. I still find it hard to believe that Kate washed the pyjama top by hand in the morning or whenever and it was dry a few hours later. It wasn't particularly hot that day was it as far as I can recall.
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
PeterMac wrote:And she was not there at lunchtime on 3rd May as the Last Photo is a forgeryDont Make Me Laff wrote:Lets not forget that Dr. David Payne said all 3 children were dressed in WHITE and looked like errrm angels
Surely if there was a BIG BROWN TEA stain he would have noticed it after all he was there for eeerm 30 minutes
Even if he was there for ONLY 30 seconds he would have noticed a big brown mark
IMO the fact is MBM was not there the evening of 3rd of May 2007 and DP is making it up. He is a liar
And she was not there . . . .
And gradually the whole thing is unravelling
I keep seeing these references to Madeleine not being alive at all on the 3rd and being substituted with another child but I can't understand why people would think this was a realistic possibility? I had ruled it out as one of Coldwater's tall tales long ago and am surprised to see it still being given any credibility.
It relies on the McCanns creating a situation that they have absolutely no control over at all and taking unnecessary risks for no reason.
- It relies on a lookalike 3 year old being expected to lie and pretend that she is Madeleine for a full day
- It relies on another parent agreeing for their child to be put in that position
- It relies on no other parent of the Tapas kids or other creche kids noticing that it's not Madeleine the McCanns are signing in or picking up from high tea.
- It relies on no adult at the creche noticing at creche or at high tea that even if the other child's hair is the same as Madeleine's her face and eyes are different
- It relies on no adult at the creche or at high tea noticing her mannerisms are different to Madeleine's
- It relies on no adult at the creche or high tea noticing that Madeleine's Leicestershire accent has suddenly changed to a southern? accent
You would have to be mad to take all those risks, knowing that if any of it fails it immediately puts the spotlight on you. And if the plan fails, as seems likely, there's no innocent reason to have attempted such a thing, especially if there's no Madeleine there too.
Although somebody uninvolved with the children may see a group of little blonde toddlers and think they all look alike, if you've spent several hours, let alone several days in the company of them you can easily identify their differences. You can't just substitute one for another and expect nobody to notice.
If Madeleine had passed away some time before the 3rd and the McCann's wanted to cover it up, it would make more sense to claim she had been abducted while they slept, rather than attempt to pass off another child as Madeleine for a full day.
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
No it wasn't according to the weather records, however according to the last photo it was very warm And of course and washing requires hand wringing to get rid of excess water so would be even wetter.sammyc wrote:Nina wrote:And have you ever tried to remove a big stain of any colour without special detergent and stain remover and machine was and even then it doesn;t wash out and never really does because big dry stains are set.
Exactly Nina. I look at my brand new white tea towels and notice tea stains on them which several 40 degree washes with Persil, stain remover etc have still not managed to get rid of. Tea stains remind of dried blood stains in colour and both are stubborn to remove. The thing to do with freshly spilt stains is to plunge them in cold water as soon as possible to stop the stain from developing. Then wash them on a high temperature. I still find it hard to believe that Kate washed the pyjama top by hand in the morning or whenever and it was dry a few hours later. It wasn't particularly hot that day was it as far as I can recall.
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
A tip: worst thing you can do with a stained tissue = to wash at low temperature. It will settle and never to be removed again without special product :-)
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
It's a pity all the bedding from the children's room was not bagged up for analysis I think.Dont Make Me Laff wrote:What I cant understand is the LACK of MBM's DNA
She was supposedly there from Saturday before she disappeared on Thursday?
apparently the McCanns transported DIRTY DIAPERS ???
SO WHAT happened to the knickers MBM was wearing that day?
What happened to the clothes she was wearing that day?
The FSS required a Control sample from the parents and a provenaced sample from where Madeleine lived
prior to her disappearance.
This was gained from a pillowcase in the Rothley home.
JRB/1 was the reference for this sample to test the parental markers against.
If the 5a pillowcases and bedding had have been saved for analysis it is possible ( but not certain )
that the two pillowcases could have matched in terms of saliva and that could have shown that Madeleine
was at some point in one of the beds - under the window or in the bed where she was said to have been taken from.
That could have proved objectively that Madeleine was in 5a in order to be removed.
There was a further provenaced DNA sample which didn't arrive at the FSS until the 12/10/07 and that was " a blood spot
in a cardboard frame " - and in a report it was written that this was tested against the parental control sample and/or maybe the
so called ' Rothley pillowcase ' result at a certain time. This sample file name was SJM/1
The problem with this on reading the FSS files on the maddiecasefiles is that in Setember 07 there was an FSS letter sent to the
PJ re: Destruction of samples. The perishable items included blood samples. The Defence could request that these samples be destroyed
within 21 days if requested.
Therefore if the defence requested that the FSS destroy or throw away these samples what happened to the sample SJM/1?
More to the point if SJM/1 was part of the destroyed samples of blood how could the FSS test against a sample that no longer
existed bearing in mind the date of the warning for possible destruction was in September 07 ( with the proviso that this would happen
within 21 days of the warning/offer to keep or destroy from the FSS) if they didn't receive the sample SJM/1 until the 12/10/07?
That's a bit of a headscratcher for me.
Only an observation and opinion though.
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Interesting.
But as there was no 'defence' at that point, surely no request for destruction could have been made?
But as there was no 'defence' at that point, surely no request for destruction could have been made?
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Nina wrote:No it wasn't according to the weather records, however according to the last photo it was very warm And of course and washing requires hand wringing to get rid of excess water so would be even wetter.
Ive been wondering where to slot this in. "According to the last photo it was warm"
A bit like the weather on Sunday 29th April 2007 in fact, take a look at the video its like
travelling back in time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg_OtStlTGc
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Stillthinking wrote:
- It relies on a lookalike 3 year old being expected to lie and pretend that she is Madeleine for a full day
- It relies on another parent agreeing for their child to be put in that position
- It relies on no other parent of the Tapas kids or other creche kids noticing that it's not Madeleine the McCanns are signing in or picking up from high tea.
- It relies on no adult at the creche noticing at creche or at high tea that even if the other child's hair is the same as Madeleine's her face and eyes are different
- It relies on no adult at the creche or at high tea noticing her mannerisms are different to Madeleine's
- It relies on no adult at the creche or high tea noticing that Madeleine's Leicestershire accent has suddenly changed to a southern? accent
Actually, 'the theory', as outlined by Johanna, and also argued by Dr Martin Roberts, is that the McCanns simply signed Madeleine in and out of the creche. There was no need to ask a 3-year-old to lie. 3-year-old are not really capable of lies in any case. Their notion is that the creche workers would be reluctant to admit that the wrong number of people were signed in that day. If someone just called the wrong child 'Madeleine' that would be enough. As for the other parents agreeing - how do you explain the multiple inconsistencies and clear falsehoods on record coming out of the mouths of the other parents?
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
@Stillthinking
"It relies on a lookalike 3 year old being expected to lie and pretend that she is Madeleine for a full day"
In 2013 my 3yr old son had spent several weeks at a 'pre-school' in Kent (just outside Faversham, a couple of miles West along the A2) before it was my turn to pick him up.
I stood by the fence, by the 'pre-fab' block just where his Mum had told me to wait, in order to pick him up.
I didn't see him, so I gradually shuffled my way towards the teaching assistant whose job it was to 'pass' the kids out to their parents. I said that I was there to pick up 'O.....'.
...and I was met with a look of bewilderment and suspicion.
It turned out my son had said he was called 'R......', and so it was by this name the teaching assistant had known him for the previous few weeks.
So... Here's a 'professional' whose job was to teach the kids and also make sure they only went off with their parents...and yet they didn't even know my son's name!! There was no reference to the register, no correlation with the name on his bag... Nothing!
...and you think that after just a week the resort's creche workers (of whom at least one was totally new in the job) would know "who was who"?
"It relies on a lookalike 3 year old being expected to lie and pretend that she is Madeleine for a full day"
In 2013 my 3yr old son had spent several weeks at a 'pre-school' in Kent (just outside Faversham, a couple of miles West along the A2) before it was my turn to pick him up.
I stood by the fence, by the 'pre-fab' block just where his Mum had told me to wait, in order to pick him up.
I didn't see him, so I gradually shuffled my way towards the teaching assistant whose job it was to 'pass' the kids out to their parents. I said that I was there to pick up 'O.....'.
...and I was met with a look of bewilderment and suspicion.
It turned out my son had said he was called 'R......', and so it was by this name the teaching assistant had known him for the previous few weeks.
So... Here's a 'professional' whose job was to teach the kids and also make sure they only went off with their parents...and yet they didn't even know my son's name!! There was no reference to the register, no correlation with the name on his bag... Nothing!
...and you think that after just a week the resort's creche workers (of whom at least one was totally new in the job) would know "who was who"?
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Varriott wrote:
Actually, 'the theory', as outlined by Johanna, and also argued by Dr Martin Roberts, is that the McCanns simply signed Madeleine in and out of the creche. There was no need to ask a 3-year-old to lie. 3-year-old are not really capable of lies in any case. Their notion is that the creche workers would be reluctant to admit that the wrong number of people were signed in that day. If someone just called the wrong child 'Madeleine' that would be enough. As for the other parents agreeing - how do you explain the multiple inconsistencies and clear falsehoods on record coming out of the mouths of the other parents?
Ok that must be another theory ...so that theory is that the McCanns turned up at the creche for Madeleine's age group, 4 times that day with no child and just signed the name Madeleine in and out, morning and afternoon and nobody noticed? Again it is a crazy risk to take because the risk of anybody noticing that Madeleine isn't with them at any point, during the 4 journeys to and from creche, at the creche sign in, and if/when the staff do a head count, (particularly if there was a boat trip etc.) immediately puts the focus on the McCanns. I think, like the theory of Gerry carrying a decoy child through Luz that night, it's an unnecessary risk to take when you don't have to and when the risk of being revealed immediately puts you in the spotlight. I can't imagine anyone, let alone someone as controlling as Gerry appears to be, taking a risk that leaves too many variables that he has no control over. It's just too big a risk to take when you think what the fallout would be if anybody noticed their deception.
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Sonmi-451 wrote:@Stillthinking
"It relies on a lookalike 3 year old being expected to lie and pretend that she is Madeleine for a full day"
In 2013 my 3yr old son had spent several weeks at a 'pre-school' in Kent (just outside Faversham, a couple of miles West along the A2) before it was my turn to pick him up.
I stood by the fence, by the 'pre-fab' block just where his Mum had told me to wait, in order to pick him up.
I didn't see him, so I gradually shuffled my way towards the teaching assistant whose job it was to 'pass' the kids out to their parents. I said that I was there to pick up 'O.....'.
...and I was met with a look of bewilderment and suspicion.
It turned out my son had said he was called 'R......', and so it was by this name the teaching assistant had known him for the previous few weeks.
So... Here's a 'professional' whose job was to teach the kids and also make sure they only went off with their parents...and yet they didn't even know my son's name!! There was no reference to the register, no correlation with the name on his bag... Nothing!
...and you think that after just a week the resort's creche workers (of whom at least one was totally new in the job) would know "who was who"?
In your example it, shocking as it is, it wasn't that the TA didn't physically recognise your child, it was that they knew them by a different name.
Yes I think after much less than a week the children's creche key workers, who were each in charge of a small number of children, would know which child was which, because of their appearance, personality, mannerisms and accents. I am amazed people think they wouldn't .
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Sonmi-451 wrote:@Stillthinking
"It relies on a lookalike 3 year old being expected to lie and pretend that she is Madeleine for a full day"
In 2013 my 3yr old son had spent several weeks at a 'pre-school' in Kent (just outside Faversham, a couple of miles West along the A2) before it was my turn to pick him up.
I stood by the fence, by the 'pre-fab' block just where his Mum had told me to wait, in order to pick him up.
I didn't see him, so I gradually shuffled my way towards the teaching assistant whose job it was to 'pass' the kids out to their parents. I said that I was there to pick up 'O.....'.
...and I was met with a look of bewilderment and suspicion.
It turned out my son had said he was called 'R......', and so it was by this name the teaching assistant had known him for the previous few weeks.
So... Here's a 'professional' whose job was to teach the kids and also make sure they only went off with their parents...and yet they didn't even know my son's name!! There was no reference to the register, no correlation with the name on his bag... Nothing!
...and you think that after just a week the resort's creche workers (of whom at least one was totally new in the job) would know "who was who"?
Don't forget the Mcs had 2 associated on the inside of MW creches - Amy Tierney & Charlotte Pennington. Their role in any of this would need investigating IMO
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
That's unusual Somni-451. Perhaps our school register systems are different here, but class teachers usually have a class register in which pupils names are written down at the start of a new year. Names are called out according to this registry, and the relevant pupils will answer to their names.
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Yes.Rogue-a-Tory wrote:Sonmi-451 wrote:@Stillthinking
"It relies on a lookalike 3 year old being expected to lie and pretend that she is Madeleine for a full day"
In 2013 my 3yr old son had spent several weeks at a 'pre-school' in Kent (just outside Faversham, a couple of miles West along the A2) before it was my turn to pick him up.
I stood by the fence, by the 'pre-fab' block just where his Mum had told me to wait, in order to pick him up.
I didn't see him, so I gradually shuffled my way towards the teaching assistant whose job it was to 'pass' the kids out to their parents. I said that I was there to pick up 'O.....'.
...and I was met with a look of bewilderment and suspicion.
It turned out my son had said he was called 'R......', and so it was by this name the teaching assistant had known him for the previous few weeks.
So... Here's a 'professional' whose job was to teach the kids and also make sure they only went off with their parents...and yet they didn't even know my son's name!! There was no reference to the register, no correlation with the name on his bag... Nothing!
...and you think that after just a week the resort's creche workers (of whom at least one was totally new in the job) would know "who was who"?
Don't forget the Mcs had 2 associated on the inside of MW creches - Amy Tierney & Charlotte Pennington. Their role in any of this would need investigating IMO
If NSY want to solve this case, they have to re-interview Baker, Pennington and Tierney.
(Maybe they already did it ???)
It is my opinion.
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She said she had never touched that window and the cleaning lady assured that she had cleaned it on the previous day....it doesn't add up"
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Me or Grand Finale?PeterMac wrote:Brilliant find. Thanks for that.
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
GF for the video, but everyone else for their tenacity and perspicuity,Rogue-a-Tory wrote:Me or Grand Finale?PeterMac wrote:Brilliant find. Thanks for that.
Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
But it WAS fine and warm on May 3, see here: http://www.vivendamiranda.com/uk/weatherlogGrande Finale wrote:Ive been wondering where to slot this in. "According to the last photo it was warm"Nina wrote:No it wasn't according to the weather records, however according to the last photo it was very warm
A bit like the weather on Sunday 29th April 2007 in fact, take a look at the video its like
travelling back in time.
Date: 03 May, 2007
Time: 20:21:14
entry
Today the sun is back and we have 21ºC. The wind was hounting the clouds, with success!(Don't know what "hounting" means though)
Apologies for being off topic, not trying to derail the thread but the subject of the weather on 3 May 2007 did come up
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Rogue-a-Tory wrote:
Don't forget the Mcs had 2 associated on the inside of MW creches - Amy Tierney & Charlotte Pennington. Their role in any of this would need investigating IMO
How do you mean "associated on the inside" ?
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Going back to the very beginning....one of the strongest themes in this story initially was the determination of the Mark Warner organisation to preserve its brand and safeguard its image at all costs. The subtext of Mark Warner's advertising might be "we care for your children so you don't have to" (thanks to"Frazier" for that), so the LAST thing they would want is any suggestion that their procedures and quality control were anything less that rigorous (which I'm sure they were).
As discussed many times on the DM and 3A forums - lots and lots of people falsify records after the event prior to Health & Safety Executive visits and Quality Control inspections.
I have no idea if Madeleine was around on the afternoon of 3rd May 2007 -neither, I suspect do the nannies, whatever the records may show.
As discussed many times on the DM and 3A forums - lots and lots of people falsify records after the event prior to Health & Safety Executive visits and Quality Control inspections.
I have no idea if Madeleine was around on the afternoon of 3rd May 2007 -neither, I suspect do the nannies, whatever the records may show.
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
ALL costs?
there is a link missing:
Maddie disappeared on MWs watch;
Why did the Mecs not sue THEM?
For instance, for their failure to inform them (=the Mecs) of the abundance of child molesters, rapists, pedos, what have you, on their doorstep?
The Mecs never sued MW
Why on earth not?
They could have take them to the cleaners and test the didn't.
So the question remaining is this: what did MW have on the Mecs, to enforce their silence?
Must have been something grand, to have the Mecs absolving them from negligence in informing the Mecs of the hazards of accommodating the Mecs on their (MWs) premises, innit?
So what could it be that MW had on the Mecs, to convince them not to sue the pants of MW?
Suggestions anyone?
there is a link missing:
Maddie disappeared on MWs watch;
Why did the Mecs not sue THEM?
For instance, for their failure to inform them (=the Mecs) of the abundance of child molesters, rapists, pedos, what have you, on their doorstep?
The Mecs never sued MW
Why on earth not?
They could have take them to the cleaners and test the didn't.
So the question remaining is this: what did MW have on the Mecs, to enforce their silence?
Must have been something grand, to have the Mecs absolving them from negligence in informing the Mecs of the hazards of accommodating the Mecs on their (MWs) premises, innit?
So what could it be that MW had on the Mecs, to convince them not to sue the pants of MW?
Suggestions anyone?
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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a
Portia wrote:
So what could it be that MW had on the Mecs, to convince them not to sue the pants of MW?
Suggestions anyone?
The emails between MW and DP from before the holiday, which showed that they were well aware there was no baby listening service at this resort ?
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