Red Flags

aquila wrote:Oh for God's sake why doesn't someone investigate Mark Warner holidays.

BlackCatBoogie wrote:

aquila wrote:Oh for God's sake why doesn't someone investigate Mark Warner holidays.

Agreed aquila - I have just been re-reading and some interesting previous threads:-
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rainbow-fairy wrote:

Mirage wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:A big red flag for me is the supposed early hours knock on Jez Wilkins apartment (by MO or RoB), to tell Jez that Maddie was missing. Yet when Jez supposedly offered assistance he was told his help searching wasn't needed! Why the visit at that hour then? Surely it could have waited til morning if Maddie hadn't been found? Why the urgency if not to ask for help - why would you even do that? Makes no sense to me  

Exactly, rainbow-fairy. Why didn't they go round to Naylor or some other male holidaymaker who had been around on the tennis courts over the previous 4/5 days?.

Just to put things into proportion, if my child had disappeared, would I walk round the block to another road and knock on the door of someone at 1am who I'd struck up a few pleasant conversations in the days prior, say at the supermarket?  Imagine the scene: someone struggling downstairs bleary-eyed; perturbed about who might be knocking on the door at that time of night. Heart racing, concerned someone is bringing bad personal news. A sense of threat, personal danger. Should I open up?

At the door, someone vaguely familiar telling them a friend's child has disappeared.

-Yeah yeah yeah. Tell me what I can do?

- Nothing mate. We've got a search party out.

- Give me a sec and I''ll join you..

- No sweat mate. Get yourself back to bed.

  
Credible?  Not remotely.

Nope, not credible at all Mirage - its not as if he was a close friend (was he? - not that they say)... so they seriously want us to believe they'd wake somebody up to tell them then say "Nah mate, pop off back to bed"!?! - I think most people would be pretty annoyed by that.
Screams 'alibi'

Mirage wrote:I am interested in Jez Wilkins and Matt Oldfield. There's something not right here.

From Jez Wilkins Statement 7th May 2007
----------------------------------------------------------

The doorbell woke us up at about 1 am. It was the resort manager who I knew to be John and one of Jerry's friends.
(Straight away we see hierarchy. He introduces him into the narrative as one of Jerry's (sic) friends so this suggests he is more familiar with Gerry than Matt)

I think his name was Matt
(he feels obliged to put a name to the face now, but qualifies this by another act of distancing  with 'I think''.)

He is white, slim, tall with greying hair. From previous conversations
(So now he has had previous conversations so not so distant as we are given to understand - he could have said this  -' I recognised the chap right away as Matt. One of Gerry's group. We've chatted a number of times)

I knew him to be a diabetic specialist.
(I knew him to be? Why not - ' he told me he was a diabetic specialist.' ? Perhaps he discovered this information in the Lancet)

We met him on the plane on the way to the destination.
(So now  it's 'We' met him - he wants to brings his wife into the equation. Finally, bit by painful bit, he has admitted he has had interactions with Matt over  4/5 days).

Matt said words to the effect that Jerry's daughter had been abducted,
( There's the old chestnut  - the 'A' word . Note his strangulated  use of  the phrase 'words to the effect.'  If someone rat-a-tats on your door at that hour, you are all ears to know why. Therefore I would expect crystal clear recall of the first desperate utterance. which  might be 'Jerr'ys daughter's been abducted' or 'Jerry's daughter has disappeared' or 'Jerry's daughter is missing'. Or 'Jerry's daughter's gone' The words used when you are told of a tragic event or emergency situation are usually indelibly imprinted on the mind and recalled years later with the immediacy of the panic. And this is only four days later, remember)

and that Jerry said he had seen me
(First a reminder )

and wanted to know if I had seen anything
( Second on the to-do check list comes the appeal to Jez that might help Madeleine.Note the anything? Not the expected 'anyone'.
Don't forget,  Gerry has already been to see Rachael Oldfield who was standing guard at her apartment at 10.30pm  over her own daughter. She abandons duties and she and Gerry search the landings and balconies for five minutes.
Oddly enough there is a call she was questioned about from her mobile at 10.36 pm.
Is it believable that Jane, who was also present on her doorstep with her sick child talking to Rachael ,did not  grab Gerry to tell him about the abductor she'd just been chewing the fat about with Rachael and send him hot foot to Jez Wilkins who may be a crucial witness.
So what was so important that Gerry sent Matt on this crucial mission instead and two and a half hours after searching with Rachael? Fond of sending people on checking errand old Gerry. Like Payne being sent to check on Kate and the kids .)

I said 'You're joking'. I offered help but they
(both Matt and this Warner bloke. Well, there's an authority figure to back Matt's considered opinion)

said there was nothing that could be done at that stage.
(Nothing could be done at that stage????? Sounds like the emergency room. So nothing could be done at this stage for missing Madeleine? What does he mean?  Did Jez think to over-rule this barmy  comment and shove Matt aside saying, 'Nonsense. Where there's life there's hope!' ????? He was a father after all)

We remained in the apartment
(I had nothing further to do with this)

but could see people around the pool
(I peeped out through the curtains)

and at the front with torches.
(Matt was wrong there is something to be done at this stage. Torches supplied  too. I ought to pull on a sweater and join the menfolk)

I also saw the police arriving.
(Bridget, the police are here! )

We then went to bed.
(Bridget quit this inane dishwashing that kept her mind off the horror of Madeleine missing in the dark, I stopped with the curtain twitching and we both skidaddled and got our heads under the duvet).
--------------------------

ETA, is he saying the police have just arrived at some stage after 1am? Or has he only just noticed them? Hmm

HelenMeg wrote:

Mirage wrote:I am interested in Jez Wilkins and Matt Oldfield. There's something not right here.

From Jez Wilkins Statement 7th May 2007
----------------------------------------------------------

The doorbell woke us up at about 1 am. It was the resort manager who I knew to be John and one of Jerry's friends.
(Straight away we see hierarchy. He introduces him into the narrative as one of Jerry's (sic) friends so this suggests he is more familiar with Gerry than Matt)

I think his name was Matt
(he feels obliged to put a name to the face now, but qualifies this by another act of distancing  with 'I think''.)

He is white, slim, tall with greying hair. From previous conversations
(So now he has had previous conversations so not so distant as we are given to understand - he could have said this  -' I recognised the chap right away as Matt. One of Gerry's group. We've chatted a number of times)

I knew him to be a diabetic specialist.
(I knew him to be? Why not - ' he told me he was a diabetic specialist.' ? Perhaps he discovered this information in the Lancet)

We met him on the plane on the way to the destination.
(So now  it's 'We' met him - he wants to brings his wife into the equation. Finally, bit by painful bit, he has admitted he has had interactions with Matt over  4/5 days).

Matt said words to the effect that Jerry's daughter had been abducted,
( There's the old chestnut  - the 'A' word . Note his strangulated  use of  the phrase 'words to the effect.'  If someone rat-a-tats on your door at that hour, you are all ears to know why. Therefore I would expect crystal clear recall of the first desperate utterance. which  might be 'Jerr'ys daughter's been abducted' or 'Jerry's daughter has disappeared' or 'Jerry's daughter is missing'. Or 'Jerry's daughter's gone' The words used when you are told of a tragic event or emergency situation are usually indelibly imprinted on the mind and recalled years later with the immediacy of the panic. And this is only four days later, remember)

and that Jerry said he had seen me
(First a reminder )

and wanted to know if I had seen anything
( Second on the to-do check list comes the appeal to Jez that might help Madeleine.Note the anything? Not the expected 'anyone'.
Don't forget,  Gerry has already been to see Rachael Oldfield who was standing guard at her apartment at 10.30pm  over her own daughter. She abandons duties and she and Gerry search the landings and balconies for five minutes.
Oddly enough there is a call she was questioned about from her mobile at 10.36 pm.
Is it believable that Jane, who was also present on her doorstep with her sick child talking to Rachael ,did not  grab Gerry to tell him about the abductor she'd just been chewing the fat about with Rachael and send him hot foot to Jez Wilkins who may be a crucial witness.
So what was so important that Gerry sent Matt on this crucial mission instead and two and a half hours after searching with Rachael? Fond of sending people on checking errand old Gerry. Like Payne being sent to check on Kate and the kids .)

I said 'You're joking'. I offered help but they
(both Matt and this Warner bloke. Well, there's an authority figure to back Matt's considered opinion)

said there was nothing that could be done at that stage.
(Nothing could be done at that stage????? Sounds like the emergency room. So nothing could be done at this stage for missing Madeleine? What does he mean?  Did Jez think to over-rule this barmy  comment and shove Matt aside saying, 'Nonsense. Where there's life there's hope!' ????? He was a father after all)

We remained in the apartment
(I had nothing further to do with this)

but could see people around the pool
(I peeped out through the curtains)

and at the front with torches.
(Matt was wrong there is something to be done at this stage. Torches supplied  too. I ought to pull on a sweater and join the menfolk)

I also saw the police arriving.
(Bridget, the police are here! )

We then went to bed.
(Bridget quit this inane dishwashing that kept her mind off the horror of Madeleine missing in the dark, I stopped with the curtain twitching and we both skidaddled and got our heads under the duvet).
--------------------------

ETA, is he saying the police have just arrived at some stage after 1am? Or has he only just noticed them? Hmm

I think that is really interesting and significant analysis Mirage.
There appears to be a definite intention to mislead about Jez's relationship with MO. He clearly wishes to distance his family from the whole scenario and to distance himself from a relationship with MO.

I know its not a very popular theory here,  but for me, it reinforces the theory that the majority of people present at OC that week were there for an arranged event such as swinging (which is common in resorts such as this out of season).

Why is Jez attenpting to convince that he does not really know MO ? Little by little he goes from describing Matt as 'one of Jerry's friends' to 'diabetic specialist ' that he 'met on the plane'

I am certain that these people were all going to OC for the same reason, and that reason was not just that it was a 'low season off peak cheap  family holiday'. Take P Edmonds - on the Board of a major multi nat company, take a bunch of Consultant doctors on very high salaries, take someone in the TV industry.....

Watching The Detectives wrote:I am referring back to Mirage's post on page 43 of this thread, which includes this statement by Matthew Oldfield (emphasised in blue) where he is talking about Jez:

"...whose name I can't remember, he had a child who was willing to be part of, or was being suggested for the interview...."


What interview, or other activity, involving Jez's child is being referred to here? Is this discussed elsewhere on the forum?

canada12 wrote:

Watching The Detectives wrote:I am referring back to Mirage's post on page 43 of this thread, which includes this statement by Matthew Oldfield (emphasised in blue) where he is talking about Jez:

"...whose name I can't remember, he had a child who was willing to be part of, or was being suggested for the interview...."


What interview, or other activity, involving Jez's child is being referred to here? Is this discussed elsewhere on the forum?

I wonder if it's a case of a missing comma?
Reply "No, there'd be rarely, rarely anybody about, maybe an occasional one person. Erm, tut, was he, was it the chap, whose name I can’t remember, he had a child, who was willing to be part of, or was being suggested for the interview, Jeremy, Jeremy or somebody?"

I've added a comma after the word "child", which changes the meaning completely.


Is he possibly saying that Jeremy Wilkins had a child, and Jeremy Wilkins was willing to be a part of this interview process?

Mirage wrote:

canada12 wrote:

Watching The Detectives wrote:I am referring back to Mirage's post on page 43 of this thread, which includes this statement by Matthew Oldfield (emphasised in blue) where he is talking about Jez:

"...whose name I can't remember, he had a child who was willing to be part of, or was being suggested for the interview...."


What interview, or other activity, involving Jez's child is being referred to here? Is this discussed elsewhere on the forum?

I wonder if it's a case of a missing comma?
Reply "No, there'd be rarely, rarely anybody about, maybe an occasional one person. Erm, tut, was he, was it the chap, whose name I can’t remember, he had a child, who was willing to be part of, or was being suggested for the interview, Jeremy, Jeremy or somebody?"

I've added a comma after the word "child", which changes the meaning completely.


Is he possibly saying that Jeremy Wilkins had a child, and Jeremy Wilkins was willing to be a part of this interview process?

Thanks WTD for noticing this.

I have checked the police statement and there is no comma inserted at the point you identify.

However,  I believe your comma clarifies the intended meaning, Canada12:  ie, that of Jez  being willing to be part of, or was being suggested for the interview! I would have thought he meant reconstruction or, as the Portuguese would have it, 'reconstitution'.  But being suggested for interview?  - hmm sounds suspiciously like GM organising the troops again.

 Syntactically, Oldfield's sentence is incoherent, with or without punctuation. What's new!  However, I am confident we have interpreted his tortuous sentence correctly.

On a different note, I have been considering drawing my efforts together on a new thread. I'm not an expert in analysis but I like to apply myself to this task and, if it is helpful, I am willing to devote the time . I am not a thread-starter by nature but if this would be helpful to any here, I will endeavour to do my best.  For instance, I notice you have been referring back to my MO post on page 43, WTD,  which seems to confirm this might be sensible.

Mirage wrote:Russell O'Brien's rog
---------------------------------
1578    Yes.
Reply    And the question about Madeleine then, this is exactly the same as Madeleine and Ella had done the day before.  Erm, and that’s where that very famous picture of Madeleine with the tennis balls was taken, so.  But it wasn’t Madeline on this day, Madeleine and Ella were in the same group and I think they’d been done on, you know, the Tuesday or the Wednesday, they had come up, so they all, there were two kind of mini kid groups, mini club kid groups and they did, you know, they were on like a rota and they did things at different times and on different days.  So Madeleine was not there at that point at all.  And I think that’s important, particularly, because of what the man said, if Madeleine was potentially being photographed by anyone, it was absolutely clear that Madeleine and Ella were not there that day.  It says ‘I recall that a guy from Southampton came up, his daughter was playing tennis, he wanted to take a picture’, erm, ‘but casual’, maybe ‘casually expressed to us how uncomfortable he felt in doing so.

Hello. I'm from Southampton. That's my daughter over there playing tennis and I want to take a picture of her.

1578    But casually expressed?

Reply    Yeah, you know, he wasn’t, he just.  And it might be worth saying that, you know, he said that the, you know, something like, you know, ‘These days you feel like a pervert’ or maybe just extending that, you know, ‘You feel like a dirty old man taking a picture of your own daughter’ maybe just to make it a bit more explicit, because that’s what he said, you know, he didn’t just come up and say ‘Oh I feel like a dirty old man’, you know, sort of, you know, ‘In this’, you know, ‘The way things are these days’, erm, you know, ‘you feel like a criminal’ or ‘a dirty old man taking a photo of your own kid.

Oh he didn't just come up and say 'Oh I feel like a dirty old man. It was more: These days you feel like a criminal or a dirty old man taking a photo of your own kid'.
Hang on Russell, you're doing my work for me.[/b]

1578    The way things are these days you feel like a’?

I wish I'd thought of that. Yeah, run with that.

Reply    Yeah, you know, it, it was, it was a, it wasn’t just a ‘Oh I feel a bit dirty taking this’.

No it was prefaced by. Hello. I'm from Southampton.'

1578    Did he use the word ‘pervert’?

We all racked our brains to remember if he said he felt like a pervert.  But as we were all racking our brains we saw him looking awkward because he was taking a photo of his own kid. Following her with his camera.

Reply    Huh, we had a whole conversation about this and whether those were his first words or whether this was what, you know, because there was Kate, there was myself, Jane, Rachael, him, there was a small group, you know, around, and I think he felt a little self-conscious because he was walking past another group of parents taking a photograph of several kids at the net of the tennis.

1578    Yeah.
So I lost the plot with the children's tennis  turned my complete focus on this man's world view. All the time he kept telling me about the terrible state of society I was racking my brains. Had he said he felt like a pervert? Or had he said perv?

Reply    I don’t know if he used the word ‘perv’, but the conversation went round on this and, you know, that, that society, you know, makes, can make normal parents feel uncomfortable doing what ten, twenty, thirty years ago would have been considered an entirely innocent thing, like taking a photograph.  Erm, I think it would be ‘a dirty old man’, ‘feel a bit of a perv’, phew, I don’t know what his first words were.  But then we actually had a conversation and I think, you know, we, probably as a group, kind of said, you know, said ‘It’s ridiculous isn’t it, you know, you take a picture of your own kid and you’re made to feel like you’re a pervert’ or something like that.  Erm, and I don’t like the next paragraph the way it is, I think its, er

Phew, I'm getting hot and sweaty just recalling this for some reason. Anyway we clustered round him. By now I had sent frantic eye signals to the women who were watching the kids play tennis while I'd sort of got stuck in a loop going round and round about perverts and the state of our country. A bit like now.  Anyway the girls swooped in to save me and we held a sort of pow wow about it all. But in the end we patted him on the head and said the group consensus was that he shouldn't beat himself up about feeling like a perv any more than any one of us gathered there should feel like a perv. I think that is when one of the women showed complete solidarity with this tortured man and told him someone had taken a photo of another tiny girl with tennis balls. He asked which one she was and I said she wasn't here today but one of our group had taken a photo of her. He looked relieved and asked which of the mums had taken it. When we said we couldn't agree if it was the little girl's mummy or a female friend or another female friend he  looked at us as if we'd been fibbing all along. Whenever I see that photo that went round the world I always think of that perv. It's all I've  seemed to talk about in this interview. That's how much of an impression it made. Look I don't like the next paragraph the way it is.......

1578    Just a moment.  And present at that conversation were?

Reply    Well certainly myself, Jane, Kate and Rachael, erm, I don’t know if there was any, erm, I think it was kind of generally a sort of women’s tennis lesson that had gone on, there may have been a partner of one of the other, of the other guests, there were a couple of people who were, who Kate and Rachael and Jane had played with, I, I forget the names. I’ve got this vague recollection there was a lady who, probably in her mid-forties, blonde hair, who may have been there as well, I, I never really spoke to her really.  But there may have been one person like in the group as well who had been playing tennis.  And this chap who, who, erm, whose name is in my original statement, I’m afraid I’ve forgotten what it was, erm, but he, as I say, he lives in Southampton, he was there with his wife and a young kid and, erm, and had lived in Exeter about fifteen years before, which was one of the conversations we had, erm, at that point.  Erm, but, yeah, those are, those, certainly Rachael, Kate and myself, Jane and this man.

I've forgotten the name of this man who was torturing himself about thinking we might think he was a perv. Anyhow, as I say, he was from Southampton. And oddly, he'd lived in Exeter about fifteen years before which was a conversation we had at this point because I could see he was nearly passing out at the shame of being thought a pervert by me and Kate and Rachael and Jane. I thought it would be too much to burden him with to say I'd just flown here from Exeter and what a coincidence an' all. The other random members of the group and blonde woman aged forty,who I didn't know, had long since faded away.  Oh, I forgot to say, he was there with his wife and a young kid. And his shoe size was...........

1578    Okay.
Reply    And the next paragraph just doesn’t, I know it’s been cobbled together, it doesn’t read, erm, actually I think, erm.

Unlike the information I've just seamlessly supplied to you, this paragraph does not meet with my high standards of linguistic fluency.

1578    I found this most uncomfortable’?

Is that what I wrote? Gosh, the memory playing tricks again.

Reply    Well, no, I think, not.
1578    “Or are we going down to E***?”
Reply    No, no, no, ‘I found this most’, I mean, huh, it’s my recollection that at the time it seemed, erm, like, huh, a slightly lamenting conversation about the state of modern day, you know, Britain, you know, so maybe, erm.  I think it might be worth just to clarify, we then, you know, something like ‘We then had a conversation about the seemingly’, erm, ‘ludicrous nature of’, erm.

Can we put it down as the lamentations of Jeremiah? Only set in the modern era?

1578    Okay.
Reply    Of, you know, ‘that you couldn’t take photographs of your own children.

I needed to re-iterate that as I didn't think I'd drilled right through your skull.


1578    We then had a conversation?
Reply    Yeah, that ‘the ludicrous pressure on parents that they can’t take photographs of their own children’, because I think that was the essence of it.  And certainly the other, the other aspect of the conversation that was made, which kind of, you know, is, huh, is doubly haunting, was that, you know, we said that, you know, ‘You’re far’, you know, ‘You’re far more likely to get clobbered by your uncle or your neighbour than some’, you know, ‘random stranger’.  Erm, which in light of the way that the Police investigation has gone, erm, it feels like, you know, erm, a real kick in the nuts.

As I say, I thought a drill would suffice but maybe clobbering with a sledgehammer has become necessary.


1578    Far more like to get clobbered by?
Reply    You know, you’re far more likely to have, you know, you know, to have a problem with somebody, from somebody you know, and we actually said, and that was actually sort of said, you know, we all worry about, you know, a small number of fairly kind of sick perverts.
Who were currently where?
1578    Rather than a stranger?
Reply    Rather than a stranger, yeah.......................

I think in his own way this man, Russell O'Brien, wanted to help the officer by dropping this mega clanger on his foot, having clobbered him with a sledgehammer. I encourage you to make your way through the next outpouring of turgid utterances without the aid of my safety net. I will be waiting as you emerge from this dark labyrinth of confusion with suitable refreshment.

..........................................but, huh, erm, which of course, you know, of course statistically is true, erm.  And the bit here that says ‘I found this most uncomfortable’, is that, you know, since, since this happened, you know, ten or eleven hours before, before Madeleine was abducted, it just seemed a really, it’s really, you know, a very, very uncomfortable coincidence, you know, ever since I found this, you know, this whole pile of things that are nast, you know, are really kind of unpleasant, but the fact that we actually had this conversation, you know, within twelve hours of her going missing was, was, erm, well, haunting, you know, that men were, erm.  You know, it’s just, erm, I mean, it is just a coincidence, it’s not as if, within the space of a year in Britain, you know, you don’t hear of, you know, a school banning cameras and, you know, it’s quite, it’s not an uncommon conversation I think for, you know, for parents with young children these days to think, you know, you know, has it gone too far, you know, is there too much, is there too much kind of worry and protection and are we, you know, damaging children’s upbringing, by by not allowing them to, you know, to, to run free a little.  Erm, and I think, yeah, and the last statement, I definitely want that there.  I mean, as far as I was concerned, this was, this was an entirely reasonable comment from this man, he’d just walked past a few parents, some of whom he probably didn’t know, erm, and he was taking photographs of his daughter, who was on this tennis court, but there were adjacent children in, in, you know, in shot.  Erm, and I can, you know, particularly as a, as a man, can particularly understand how he might have felt going up there because clearly, erm, you know, this is, this is something that, you know, you need to be aware of.  And my dad, you know, we’ve had a conversation about this since, you know, when I was little and growing up, in the street he would freely talk, he would freely talk with my friends and people going by and he says, you know, just, you know, these days you just, you just ignore people, you ignore children because you wouldn’t want anyone to sort of think that you were, you know, you were kind of, erm, trying to entertain them with an ulterior motive.  So this did not feel bad and I would hate to think that me saying this that anyone would think that I was trying to implicate this man, I do not think that there was anything untoward in it.

Ah, there you are, landed safe on the other side!

And as this man spun himself into a right old lather about paedophiles, pervs and photographing young children he helpfully made the case against stranger abduction.
 
1578    Okay.
Reply    Yeah, ‘I went back to the Kids Club’, erm, ‘I think Jane was looking after Evie’, well ‘Jane was looking after Evie’, there wasn’t a question of.
1578    “So ‘I think that’ wants coming out?”

I think if you were being scrupulously honest, Russell O'Brien, you'd have to say the whole damned lot  'wants coming out'.[/b]

Poe wrote:
No. They either know each other much better than Jez is letting on, or there was some sort of convention that involved the medical profession.

Poe wrote:This is brilliant Mirage  

One thing that jumped out at me was Jez Wilkins knowing that Matt specialises in diabetes. He had no reason to know this.

Doctors tend to be reticent when it comes to revealing their occupation whilst on holiday because there are certain people who will want to discuss their every ache, rash and treatment.

If this was a real holiday and JW was a stranger to Matt, Matt would not have revealed his specialism. That is, unless he really loves those "my mate's cousin had diabetes but he ate bananas and cured himself"  type of conversations.

No. They either know each other much better than Jez is letting on, or there was some sort of convention that involved the medical profession.

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Poe wrote:
No. They either know each other much better than Jez is letting on, or there was some sort of convention that involved the medical profession.

Yes, I've suspected there was a medical "convention" of sorts, something underhand that needed covering up.  I prefer that to the swinging theory which makes little sense to me.

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Poe wrote:
No. They either know each other much better than Jez is letting on, or there was some sort of convention that involved the medical profession.

Yes, I've suspected there was a medical "convention" of sorts, something underhand that needed covering up.  I prefer that to the swinging theory which makes little sense to me.

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Poe wrote:
No. They either know each other much better than Jez is letting on, or there was some sort of convention that involved the medical profession.

Yes, I've suspected there was a medical "convention" of sorts, something underhand that needed covering up.  I prefer that to the swinging theory which makes little sense to me.

HelenMeg wrote:

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Poe wrote:
No. They either know each other much better than Jez is letting on, or there was some sort of convention that involved the medical profession.

Yes, I've suspected there was a medical "convention" of sorts, something underhand that needed covering up.  I prefer that to the swinging theory which makes little sense to me.

An underhand medical convention? My company consists of only doctors - GPs consultants, hospital doctors, A and E specialist doctors, Assoc Specialists.  Our shareholders are all doctors... nothing but doctors. I am 100% certain that there are no such conventions (at least for UK doctors  that are GMC related).  If you are suspecting that they were in Pd L for an underhand convention of medics I think you are completely off track.
Furthermore, if there is indeed a link between Jez and the group then it shows that this group of people were not confined to doctors. What about Phil Edmonds? Was he there dabbling in medicinal matters?