Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Doug D wrote:But who or what caused the original, seemingly correct story to be whooshed then?

The reason I was given was that the first article from the PA was replaced by the staff reporters article when he returned from the press conference.

Yet both V1 & V2 timed at 11.43!

If someone at McCannfiles hadn't been really on the ball, V1 would have just disappeared forever and no one would have known about Redwood's doubts about the abduction, as none of the other papers were prepared to even report it.
None of this was mentioned in the official press release don't forget, which is what the other papers have just regurgitated.

Well done to McCannfiles and also to Dantezebu for stirring them up & causing a back-pedal, even if their explanations don't ring true.

RIPM wrote:Operation Grange's 'elite' detectives have examined everything, excepting nothing and after months of painstaking analysis, have concluded 5 things are certainly not in dispute and have put them in the public domain.

The last poolside photo is genuine and undoctored or altered in any way.

The weather around 1pm on Thursday 3rd May 2007 was hot and sunny.

The photo shows M alive and well on Thursday 3rd May 2007.

The weather remained warm well into the late hours of Thursday 3rd May 2007.

JT is a completely reliable witness with remarkable powers of observation, it is just unfortunate the person she saw was an innocent 
holidaymaker.

Redwood and his team of 'elite' detectives have so far spent 7 million pounds accessing all this data so either certain posters are being mischevious by stating the weather was cold and not sunny, or Redwood is running a whitewash, ignoring anything which does not help the Macs case, ie.  the weather or dogs etc;

so its a whitewash for me.

* * * * * * *

I have spent much time reading threads and news recently but this somehow passed me by - when and where have SR commented on the 'last photo' or the weather please anybody? Is there a link to that?
There are several reasons why I question the 'last photo' - not least the delay in release. What really makes me wonder though is the fact it doesn't have a starring role in the bewk - why? No holiday photos in there AT ALL! Bizarre in the extreme imo - the one photo you'd expect to feature yet doesn't - has to be a VERY good reason, IMO.
Would be very interested in the reasoning behind such a conclusion...

Dastardly quote box! Can't fix sorry

ultimaThule wrote:

Doug D wrote:Keeping interpretation options open I think Cristobell.

Yes, dead when removed from apartment, but not necessarily died in the apartment, (could have been moved in & then out again).

IMO the child was dead before she entered 5A for the last time as, given the only two places in the apartment where the EVRD dog indicated cadaverine, I fail to understand why an injured and/or dying child, would be laid on the floor behind the sofa or by the wardrobe when it would be more appropriate to place her on the sofa, a bed, or even the table, to tend her.

The alternative is that the McCanns were even more unfeeling and uncaring about their eldest daughter than I've hitherto given them credit for.

It is possible that she fell elsewhere but there is the problem of the bloodspray pattern behind the sofa which goes quite high up the wall and may be the result of an attempt at resuscitation although I recall seeing a clip of Brunt early September where he says the blood pattern is indicative of a broken hyoid bone - make of that what you will,  Maddie  entered the OC alive and died there, according to the PJ and the dogs.

SY  need to close the whole circus down imo.
They've let JT off the hook. No liar, just misinterpretation. Off you go.
This leaves them free to launch and retract different versions of a ' 99% dead' scenario which involves any number of creepy extras but leaves out TM. So far they haven't hit on one that will fly but meanwhile the public is getting value for money as all these creepy characters are paraded in the press. The boys in blue are working hard it seems.
Just not exactly at justice for Maddie, that  may not have been in the remit after all.

tigger wrote:

ultimaThule wrote:

Doug D wrote:Keeping interpretation options open I think Cristobell.

Yes, dead when removed from apartment, but not necessarily died in the apartment, (could have been moved in & then out again).

IMO the child was dead before she entered 5A for the last time as, given the only two places in the apartment where the EVRD dog indicated cadaverine, I fail to understand why an injured and/or dying child, would be laid on the floor behind the sofa or by the wardrobe when it would be more appropriate to place her on the sofa, a bed, or even the table, to tend her.

The alternative is that the McCanns were even more unfeeling and uncaring about their eldest daughter than I've hitherto given them credit for.

It is possible that she fell elsewhere but there is the problem of the bloodspray pattern behind the sofa which goes quite high up the wall and may be the result of an attempt at resuscitation although I recall seeing a clip of Brunt early September where he says the blood pattern is indicative of a broken hyoid bone - make of that what you will,  Maddie  entered the OC alive and died there, according to the PJ and the dogs.

SY  need to close the whole circus down imo.
They've let JT off the hook. No liar, just misinterpretation. Off you go.
This leaves them free to launch and retract different versions of a ' 99% dead' scenario which involves any number of creepy extras but leaves out TM. So far they haven't hit on one that will fly but meanwhile the public is getting value for money as all these creepy characters are paraded in the press. The boys in blue are working hard it seems.
Just not exactly at justice for Maddie, that  may not have been in the remit after all.

Indeed they do Tigger, if they are to come out of this with any credibility.  

Just saw a great tweet, 'a suspect a day, keeps charges at bay' - about right I would say!

RIPM wrote:To those who think this will not be a whitewash ,are we expected to believe SY and the PJ  with the full permission of the Portuguese Government are working closely together on a strategy to entrap the Macs.

In this strategy they are going to totally trash the Algarve tourist industry by stating that weirdos,paedophiles,oddballs lurk in every resort up and down the coast.
They lurk in every stairwell,on every corner and if you have a blonde child, God help you!

The waiters are paedos, the hotel staff are paedos even the bin men! Trust no one.They rob you, burgle your apartment or villa molest your kids and the 'rotten dishonest' Portuguese police hide it all to protect their tourist industry but because its the Mccanns the Portuguese Govt have decided their tourist industry is not important.

1000's of Portuguese people who depend on the tourists for jobs are not important
The money tourists bring to Portugal is not important.

People of the UK Germany and Holland  through the 'respected' BBC Crimewatch are told if you come expect your children to be molested or abducted.

Do people seriously think the Portuguese Govt has agreed to this?

In reality there is no co-operation, it is a stand up fight and the PJ will not roll over again

Do you not think the Portuguese voter may ask their politicians questions regarding the slump in their tourist industry and the reasons for it?

Great Post! RIPM

tigger wrote:

ultimaThule wrote:

Doug D wrote:Keeping interpretation options open I think Cristobell.

Yes, dead when removed from apartment, but not necessarily died in the apartment, (could have been moved in & then out again).

IMO the child was dead before she entered 5A for the last time as, given the only two places in the apartment where the EVRD dog indicated cadaverine, I fail to understand why an injured and/or dying child, would be laid on the floor behind the sofa or by the wardrobe when it would be more appropriate to place her on the sofa, a bed, or even the table, to tend her.

The alternative is that the McCanns were even more unfeeling and uncaring about their eldest daughter than I've hitherto given them credit for.

It is possible that she fell elsewhere but there is the problem of the bloodspray pattern behind the sofa which goes quite high up the wall and may be the result of an attempt at resuscitation although I recall seeing a clip of Brunt early September where he says the blood pattern is indicative of a broken hyoid bone - make of that what you will,  Maddie  entered the OC alive and died there, according to the PJ and the dogs.

SY  need to close the whole circus down imo.
They've let JT off the hook. No liar, just misinterpretation. Off you go.
This leaves them free to launch and retract different versions of a ' 99% dead' scenario which involves any number of creepy extras but leaves out TM. So far they haven't hit on one that will fly but meanwhile the public is getting value for money as all these creepy characters are paraded in the press. The boys in blue are working hard it seems.
Just not exactly at justice for Maddie, that  may not have been in the remit after all.

Fracture of the hyoid bone can be found in cases of manual strangulation of the type more commonly committed by males* on females and such injuries do not cause external blood loss.   This particular fracture can also be caused by the impact of a steering wheel on the throat/neck area in the course of a vehicular accident; fracture of the hyoid bone is not always fatal and surgical intervention is rarely required to bring about healing/recovery.   In cases of suspicious death of children and adolescents, an intact hyoid cannot be seen as evidence that death was not caused by strangulation as ossification of the bones is not complete.

The EVRD dog's indications show only that a corpse was present in two locations in 5A, namely behind the sofa and by a bedroom wardrobe and, regardless of the PJ's thesis, these indications cannot be seen as evidence that death occurred in either of those two places as it could have equally occurred elsewhere and the body carried/moved to the apartment. 

I've yet to see any evidence of a fall, whether in 5A or any other location, and to my untrained eye such spots/flecks/dots of blood which can be seen on the wall under the window behind the sofa look as if they could be the remnants of cast-off bloodstain spatter which is consistent with beating or stabbling.

However, presupposing the child was rendered unconscious through falling off/behind the sofa, as I've observed before, attempts to resuscitate require space and it would be logical to move the injured party well away from the cramped confines between a wall and a sofa before performing CPR.  If there was insufficient time to effect such a move before death occurred I would have thought that, even more particularly in the case of a child, the next step would be to move the body to a bed or other soft surface where it could be accorded some dignity before being removed to a further temporary or permanent resting place.

It was my on the subject of dignity in death and the indications of the EVRD dog which led me to wonder whether a fatality occurred elsewhere, with the body being laid out in a respectful manner for a period of time before being temporarily 'stored' in 5A prior to its onward journey, otherwise leaving a child's body on a floor shows a quite remarkable of lack of feeling and/or sensitivity. 

Having finally got to the end of the bewk it seems to me that, having eliminated Tannerman, Op Grange is intent on whooshing all of the other spurious characters the McCanns and their agents have put foward for the role of phantom abductor snd I'm hopeful that, at very long last, justice beckons for the perpetrators of one of the most heinous crimes of this century.

lj wrote:

RIPM wrote:To those who think this will not be a whitewash ,are we expected to believe SY and the PJ  with the full permission of the Portuguese Government are working closely together on a strategy to entrap the Macs.

In this strategy they are going to totally trash the Algarve tourist industry by stating that weirdos,paedophiles,oddballs lurk in every resort up and down the coast.
They lurk in every stairwell,on every corner and if you have a blonde child, God help you!

The waiters are paedos, the hotel staff are paedos even the bin men! Trust no one.They rob you, burgle your apartment or villa molest your kids and the 'rotten dishonest' Portuguese police hide it all to protect their tourist industry but because its the Mccanns the Portuguese Govt have decided their tourist industry is not important.

1000's of Portuguese people who depend on the tourists for jobs are not important
The money tourists bring to Portugal is not important.

People of the UK Germany and Holland  through the 'respected' BBC Crimewatch are told if you come expect your children to be molested or abducted.

Do people seriously think the Portuguese Govt has agreed to this?

In reality there is no co-operation, it is a stand up fight and the PJ will not roll over again

Do you not think the Portuguese voter may ask their politicians questions regarding the slump in their tourist industry and the reasons for it?

Great Post!  RIPM

A post shot through with realism. Our police are out of control. Hogan-Howe is before Select Committee today answering questions on cover up and corruption. Why he has not been suspended I don't know. Something is deeply wrong here.

quote   :
 "However, presupposing the child was rendered unconscious through falling off/behind the sofa, as I've observed before, attempts to resuscitate require space and it would be logical to move the injured party well away from the cramped confines between a wall and a sofa before performing CPR."


 A hard surface is recommended for CPR, so maybe simply moving the sofa and leaving the patient in situ would be the thing to do ?

Mirage wrote:

lj wrote:

RIPM wrote:To those who think this will not be a whitewash ,are we expected to believe SY and the PJ  with the full permission of the Portuguese Government are working closely together on a strategy to entrap the Macs.

In this strategy they are going to totally trash the Algarve tourist industry by stating that weirdos,paedophiles,oddballs lurk in every resort up and down the coast.
They lurk in every stairwell,on every corner and if you have a blonde child, God help you!

The waiters are paedos, the hotel staff are paedos even the bin men! Trust no one.They rob you, burgle your apartment or villa molest your kids and the 'rotten dishonest' Portuguese police hide it all to protect their tourist industry but because its the Mccanns the Portuguese Govt have decided their tourist industry is not important.

1000's of Portuguese people who depend on the tourists for jobs are not important
The money tourists bring to Portugal is not important.

People of the UK Germany and Holland  through the 'respected' BBC Crimewatch are told if you come expect your children to be molested or abducted.

Do people seriously think the Portuguese Govt has agreed to this?

In reality there is no co-operation, it is a stand up fight and the PJ will not roll over again

Do you not think the Portuguese voter may ask their politicians questions regarding the slump in their tourist industry and the reasons for it?

Great Post!  RIPM

A post shot through with realism. Our police are out of control. Hogan-Howe is before Select Committee today answering questions on cover up and corruption. Why he has not been suspended I don't know. Something is deeply wrong here.

Worry not about NL. At least two journalists have appeared on prime time TV close to the CW programme and said in plain language that the story doesn't stand up and that the child is certainly dead and has been for a very long time.

Completely agree RD.

If someone fell & was injured behind the sofa, the action would be to push the sofa out of the way & tend to the injuries in situ.

Every first aider has it drummed into them not to move a victim, unless in danger of further injuries, until a proper examination has been carried out as you could do more harm than good, and maybe even doctors would be aware of that!

tigger wrote:

Mirage wrote:

lj wrote:

RIPM wrote:To those who think this will not be a whitewash ,are we expected to believe SY and the PJ  with the full permission of the Portuguese Government are working closely together on a strategy to entrap the Macs.

In this strategy they are going to totally trash the Algarve tourist industry by stating that weirdos,paedophiles,oddballs lurk in every resort up and down the coast.
They lurk in every stairwell,on every corner and if you have a blonde child, God help you!

The waiters are paedos, the hotel staff are paedos even the bin men! Trust no one.They rob you, burgle your apartment or villa molest your kids and the 'rotten dishonest' Portuguese police hide it all to protect their tourist industry but because its the Mccanns the Portuguese Govt have decided their tourist industry is not important.

1000's of Portuguese people who depend on the tourists for jobs are not important
The money tourists bring to Portugal is not important.

People of the UK Germany and Holland  through the 'respected' BBC Crimewatch are told if you come expect your children to be molested or abducted.

Do people seriously think the Portuguese Govt has agreed to this?

In reality there is no co-operation, it is a stand up fight and the PJ will not roll over again

Do you not think the Portuguese voter may ask their politicians questions regarding the slump in their tourist industry and the reasons for it?

Great Post!  RIPM

A post shot through with realism. Our police are out of control. Hogan-Howe is before Select Committee today answering questions on cover up and corruption. Why he has not been suspended I don't know. Something is deeply wrong here.

Worry not about NL. At least two journalists have appeared on prime time TV close to the CW programme  and said in plain language that the story doesn't stand up and that the child is certainly dead and has been for a very long time.

Thanks tigger. It is reassuring to know that outside this institute of complete madness that passes for the UK, another country is at least looking at the sick patient diagnostically. Dealing with collective national psychosis is going to necessitate some emergency counselling from abroad.   

Another example of shameful British Institutional 'sickness'.

It's been mentioned across threads about the possibility of a 'whistleblower'.

Read this and weep.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2588501/Tax-chief-wont-rule-using-terror-laws-whistleblowers-three-years-HMRC-sparked-fury-targeting-staff-member-revealed-Goldman-Sachs-deal.html

Doug D wrote:Completely agree RD.
If someone fell & was injured behind the sofa, the action would be to push the sofa out of the way & tend to the injuries in situ.
Every first aider has it drummed into them not to move a victim, unless in danger of further injuries, until a proper examination has been carried out as you could do more harm than good, and maybe even doctors would be aware of that!

But if a doctor found a body s/he would know know that it was dead.
And if it was found the morning after the night before ( the night of the argument and the stomping off in all directions and sleeping apart and not waking the children by putting the light on and not checking the children) and it was already cold and stiff and 'leaking' cadaverine . . .
Then it is all a bit different, and now you need a tennis bag big enough to hide a . . . tennis racquet

Looking back at the BBC’s ‘papers’ stories from last week, surprisingly (not!), there is no mention of the Guardian’s report from Redwood’s briefing, where he talked about the abduction theory, but with the ‘may not necessarily follow with all our thinking’ proviso, and then adding the possible 'not being alive when removed from 5A' scenario to the story.

The Guardian advised Dantezebu that the story originally came from the PA, but that the story was then amended by their own reporter, incorrectly so it seems, to then revert back to the PA version.

Assuming it’s correct that it came from the PA, isn’t it strange how none of the other papers picked up on it, even if they didn’t have their own reporters present at the briefing.

This is the BBC’s report:

A breakthrough?

The Mirror and Daily Star relegate the Budget to the inside pages to lead on the latest in the search for Madeleine McCann, who went missing from a Portuguese holiday resort as a three-year-old in May 2007.

Police have announced they're seeking a "pot-bellied serial sex fiend" who abused five other British girls in Algarve holiday homes, according to the Star, while the Mirror quotes the investigating officer saying the suspect - who carried out attacks between 2004 and 2006 - has "an unhealthy interest in young, white girls".

Asking "who is the prowler?" the Sun describes his distinctive clothes, appearance and accented spoken English. The Mirror gives space to ex-Metropolitan Police detective Peter Kirkham, who describes the latest development as "incredibly important" and questions why the initial Portuguese investigation didn't make the link.

Sandra Laville, in the Guardian, finds hope in the "breakthrough", saying: "Identifying a potentially linked series of sex attacks, as detectives on the inquiry have done, has been the key to solving similarly high-profile cases of sexually motivated crimes in the past."

The Times identifies three other priorities driving the investigation, saying police want to trace a man seen carrying a child on the night Madeleine disappeared, three men suspected of burgling holiday apartments around that time and a third grouping comprising "persons of interest" and known sex offenders.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs/the_papers/

As GA said a week or so ago:

‘I think it will be solved, it will be solved ... and there we come back to politics, when there will political will on both sides’.

And when the papers get the balls to stand up to TM & CM presumably.

There is often a huge culture of cover-up within large organisations and institutions and the whistle blower is often hounded down and metaphorically shot in the back. The NHS is bad in this respect as I myself have witnessed at first hand. Education is another area where there can be a culture of bullying and narcissistic behaviour - and I'm not just talking about the pupils! Again, I have had first hand experience of this and it ain't pretty. It only takes one psychopath (or similar) quite high up in the organization to infect practically the whole organization. The fall out can be astounding as staff are bullied and targeted with psychological 'mind games' (often the attacker will accuse the target of the precise behaviour that they themselves are guilty of - for instance: 'you are unprofessional', 'you can't cope with the pressure', 'it's all in your head', 'you have an attitude problem'. 

I've seen it again and again so now I can spot it a mile off. It's toxic behaviour and, unless you are clued up on it, it can leave you blind-sided. And attackers will often target those in a weak position, those who are not able to walk away easily, those who are dependent. They will carefully chose their 'victims' who will tend to have certain qualities that they themselves lack. 

Hence the sexual abuse of children in children's homes (for instance Casa Pia). Those children are some of the most vulnerable in society.  

The McCann story relies very heavily on the fact that this was a large group of professional people on a summer holiday with their young children at a holiday camp. To the average non-psychopathic person this will lead to a number of assumptions about the holiday. For instance, that the professionals will be respectable, caring parents who will be devoted to their children's well-being and happiness. That the parents will put a high priority on their children's emotional, physical and psychological well-being.

And so on.

After all, if you thought that your GP or your Consultant was the type of person who neglected or was abusive in some way towards children, or who had a deviant or anti-social characteristics you would not be able to trust them with your health or your children's health - the most important things you have, probably.

Unfortunately, there will be those in all fields who will abuse their position of trust to gain a perverted advantage over others. It only takes a gullible public who has been brainwashed into certain assumptions and prejudices.

But I do think that in Britain our sickness has been pretty bad for some time. The McCann Fiasco is the icing on the giant pile of dung.

j.rob wrote:There is often a huge culture of cover-up within large organisations and institutions and the whistle blower is often hounded down and metaphorically shot in the back. The NHS is bad in this respect as I myself have witnessed at first hand. Education is another area where there can be a culture of bullying and narcissistic behaviour - and I'm not just talking about the pupils! Again, I have had first hand experience of this and it ain't pretty. It only takes one psychopath (or similar) quite high up in the organization to infect practically the whole organization. The fall out can be astounding as staff are bullied and targeted with psychological 'mind games' (often the attacker will accuse the target of the precise behaviour that they themselves are guilty of - for instance: 'you are unprofessional', 'you can't cope with the pressure', 'it's all in your head', 'you have an attitude problem'. 

I've seen it again and again so now I can spot it a mile off. It's toxic behaviour and, unless you are clued up on it, it can leave you blind-sided. And attackers will often target those in a weak position, those who are not able to walk away easily, those who are dependent. They will carefully chose their 'victims' who will tend to have certain qualities that they themselves lack. 

Hence the sexual abuse of children in children's homes (for instance Casa Pia). Those children are some of the most vulnerable in society.  

The McCann story relies very heavily on the fact that this was a large group of professional people on a summer holiday with their young children at a holiday camp. To the average non-psychopathic person this will lead to a number of assumptions about the holiday. For instance, that the professionals will be respectable, caring parents who will be devoted to their children's well-being and happiness. That the parents will put a high priority on their children's emotional, physical and psychological well-being.

And so on.

After all, if you thought that your GP or your Consultant was the type of person who neglected or was abusive in some way towards children, or who had a deviant or anti-social characteristics you would not be able to trust them with your health or your children's health - the most important things you have, probably.

Unfortunately, there will be those in all fields who will abuse their position of trust to gain a perverted advantage over others. It only takes a gullible public who has been brainwashed into certain assumptions and prejudices.

But I do think that in Britain our sickness has been pretty bad for some time. The McCann Fiasco is the icing on the giant pile of dung.

People get "sucked in" to the system they work in. The alternative is to lose one's job. Some have the guts to speak out and are prepared to suffer the consequences. Sadly, too many people have mortgages, young families etc, so they suffer in silence all the corruption and nepotism within their working circles.

PeterMac wrote:

Doug D wrote:Completely agree RD.
If someone fell & was injured behind the sofa, the action would be to push the sofa out of the way & tend to the injuries in situ.
Every first aider has it drummed into them not to move a victim, unless in danger of further injuries, until a proper examination has been carried out as you could do more harm than good, and maybe even doctors would be aware of that!

But if a doctor found a body s/he would know know that it was dead.
And if it was found the morning after the night before ( the night of the argument and the stomping off in all directions and sleeping apart and not waking the children by putting the light on and not checking the children) and it was already cold and stiff and 'leaking' cadaverine . . .
Then it is all a bit different, and now you need a tennis bag big enough to hide a . . .  tennis racquet

And there indeed you have it. If she was unconscious she would at some stage be moved to a bed. But if she had 'been taken' (leaving aside the time of discovery for now) then moving her to a bed is something you would never do. You either call for help, or go down another much darker path.

aquila wrote:Another example of shameful British Institutional 'sickness'.

It's been mentioned across threads about the possibility of a 'whistleblower'.

Read this and weep.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2588501/Tax-chief-wont-rule-using-terror-laws-whistleblowers-three-years-HMRC-sparked-fury-targeting-staff-member-revealed-Goldman-Sachs-deal.html

Weep indeed - Lin Homer is at that back of this. A Common Purpose leader who makes a shambles of every position she is given and is then rewarded and moved to yet another Agency to destroy.  Vote rigging scandal as Birmingham City Councillor, Border Agency chief and cocks that up, so moved to HMRC and is now cocking that up.

So one comes to the conclusion that she is merely employed to destroy.

http://www.ukcolumn.org/video/uk-column-live-6th-november-2012      from 19.24 mins.

Sorry off-topic but had to prove what corruption is going on.

@ sallypelt - "People get "sucked in" to the system they work in. The alternative is to lose one's job. Some have the guts to speak out and are prepared to suffer the consequences. Sadly, too many people have mortgages, young families etc, so they suffer in silence all the corruption and nepotism within their working circles".

So true - If one dares to speak up about corruption, life is made hell and one either has to leave or becomes ill.

Bishop Brennan wrote:

PeterMac wrote:

Doug D wrote:Completely agree RD.
If someone fell & was injured behind the sofa, the action would be to push the sofa out of the way & tend to the injuries in situ.
Every first aider has it drummed into them not to move a victim, unless in danger of further injuries, until a proper examination has been carried out as you could do more harm than good, and maybe even doctors would be aware of that!

But if a doctor found a body s/he would know know that it was dead.
And if it was found the morning after the night before ( the night of the argument and the stomping off in all directions and sleeping apart and not waking the children by putting the light on and not checking the children) and it was already cold and stiff and 'leaking' cadaverine . . .
Then it is all a bit different, and now you need a tennis bag big enough to hide a . . .  tennis racquet

And there indeed you have it.  If she was unconscious she would at some stage be moved to a bed.  But if she had 'been taken' (leaving aside the time of discovery for now) then moving her to a bed is something you would never do.  You either call for help, or go down another much darker path.

'Normal' parents would be unable to go down this darker path but it's quite obvious that we're not dealing with 'normal' parents here. We're dealing with parents who care more about what others think of them than they do their own child   

Courtesy of Duarte Levy, this statement on McCann Files:
----------------------------------

DC Ferguson interviews Matthew Oldfield... with "Technical problems" Duarte Levy Wordpress

Duarte Levy
February 5, 2009 • 11:47 am

I am Detective Constable 4078 FERGUSON of the Leicestershire Constabulary currently stationed on the Major Crime Unit and engaged on enquiries on Operation Task.

At 10:19 hours on Wednesday 9th April 2008 I was present at an interview suite at Leicestershire Police Force Headquarters when I commenced a recorded interview with the witness Matthew OLDFIELD.

The interview ceased at 11:22 hours.

This interview was recorded onto DVD and a master copy and a working copy were produced.

I produce the master copy of this DVD as exhibit reference S.V.F.115 and the working copy as exhibit reference S.V.F.116

I have had the opportunity to read and check through a transcript made of this interview and I produce the transcript of the interview as exhibit reference S.V.F.116A

At 11:54 hours on Wednesday 9th April 2008 I was present at an interview suite at Leicestershire Police Force Headquarters when I commenced a recorded interview with the witness Matthew OLDFIELD.

The interview ceased at 13:08 hours.

This interview was recorded onto DVD and a master copy and a working copy were produced.

I produce the master copy of this DVD as exhibit reference S.V.F.117 and the working copy as exhibit reference S.V.F.118

I have had the opportunity to read and check through a transcript made of this interview and I produce the transcript of the interview as exhibit reference S.V.F.118A.

At 14:14 hours on Wednesday 9th April 2008 I was present at an interview suite at Leicestershire Police Force Headquarters when I commenced a recorded interview with the witness Matthew OLDFIELD.

The interview ceased at 14:51 hours.

This interview was recorded onto DVD and a master copy and a working copy were produced. (Page 1)

I produce the master copy of this DVD as exhibit reference S.V.F.119 and the working copy as exhibit reference S.V.F.120

Technical problems were experienced during this interview and no data was recorded.

At 15:18 hours on Wednesday 9th April 2008 I was present at an interview suite at Leicestershire Police Force Headquarters when I commenced a recorded interview with the witness Matthew OLDFIELD.

The interview ceased at 15:38 hours.

This interview was recorded onto DVD and a master copy and a working copy were produced.

I produce the master copy of this DVD as exhibit reference S.V.F.121 and the working copy as exhibit reference S.V.F.122

I have had the opportunity to read and check through a transcript made of this interview and I produce the transcript of the interview as exhibit reference S.V.F.122A.

During this interview process the witness Matthew OLDFIELD marked on a copy of exhibit D.M.2 (a plan of the area) which is now produced as exhibit reference M.O.1.

Later the same day I returned to Barunstone Police Station where I placed all of the discs for the interviews and exhibit M.O.1 into a secure store.

At 15:10 hours on Monday 14th April 2008 I it out of the secure store and handed exhibit M.O.1 to exhibits officer 7383 CRAVEN.

At 15:50 hours on Monday 14th April 2008 I handed exhibits S.V.F.115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121 and 122 to exhibits officer 7383 CRAVEN having taken them out of the secure store.

AT 8:15 hours on 8th May 2008 I took exhibits S.V.F.116, S.V.F.118 and S.V.F.122 from Exhibits Officer CRAVEN and retained possession of them until 09:00am on Friday 9th May 2008 when I returned them to Exhibits Officer CRAVEN.

This statement is made by myself and is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Signed:    S FERGUSON
----------------------------------------------------------

Right, I think this statement is interesting. Ferguson records 4 interviews in toto.
The format is that Ferguson records an interview. There is a break. She produces a master copy and a working copy DVD of the interview. She reads and checks the transcript of the interview and produces the transcript. From her setting out one is to conclude this activity is carried out during the breaks between interview.

So:
Interview 1 produces Master Copy SVF 115: Working Copy SVF 116: Transcript SVF116A
Interview 2 produces Master Copy SVF 117:  Working Copy SVF 118: Transcript SVF118A
After both these operations note that Ferguson states the following using exactly the same phraseology, viz: 'I have had the opportunity to read and check through a transcript made of this interview and I produce the transcript of the interview as exhibit reference. (and she fills the applicable ref for transcripts with the suffix A)'

Now this:
Interview 3 Master Copy SVF 119: Working Copy: SVF 120:
Technical difficulties were experienced during this interview and no data was recorded.

I'm a little surprised that with such diligence paid to the letter of what was done recorded in this rigid format, there is sudden and unexpected deviation in language.  DC Ferguson did not state the expected 'I have had the opportunity to check etc.........'  She might have continued: but was unable to make a transcript as no data had recorded due to technical difficulties. I can only deduce that this dropping of 'the opportunity to' is significant. After all when all five of Russell O'Brien's interviews taken over a period of five hours the next day ALL failed to record, I would have expected a similar signed statement from the interviewing officer laying out in terms what has happened as DC Ferguson was clearly asked to do, or herself requested to do, in order to cover herself.

Interview 4 Master Copy SVF 121: Working Copy: SVF 122: Transcript: SVF 122A : Exhibit MO1 (where MO marks on a plan of the area , DM2)

It is helpful to remember that the numbers run 115 through 122. The odds are the Master DVDs, the evens are the working copy, the evens+A are the transcripts.

On the following Monday ( 18th April) at 3.10 pm the exhibits officer 7383 Craven asks Ferguson for the plan MO1 that Oldfield has marked. She takes it from secure store.
At 3.50pm (40 mins later) he returns and asks for all Master Copies and Working Copy DVDs (including the two duds 119 and 120) For the record these are 115 through 122. She hands them over from secure store.

Fast forward nearly a month. And at 8.15am on 8th May she receives back 116, 118, 122 from Craven and 'retains possession' of them until Friday 9am when she returns them to Officer Craven. Now Ferguson has been meticulous about stating when these items have been whisked in and out of the secure store right up until this point. Now the language changes and she keeps them in her possession overnight. There is no further reference to them being returned to Ferguson's keeping so future handling of these DVDs is not known. The recorded exchanges end with these three being handed back to Craven.

So, Craven took all DVDs 115 through 122. Briefly returns Nos 116, 118 and 122 overnight (remember these are three working copies that are returned to her, their twin master copies remain with Craven).. Why do that? He's had them nearly a month.

Remember also Craven retains both the Master Copy and the Working copy (119 and 120) which are the duds, never returning them within the recorded history of Ferguson. He comes back the next morning for Nos 116,118, 122 which for some inexplicable reason needed to reside overnight with Ferguson when he had retained their Master Copy twins of 115,117 and 121 plus the the Master copy and Working Copy duds.

There is no mention of the transcripts (A) going into secure store. They were elsewhere.

Given that these 4 interviews with Matthew Oldfield were done on the 8th April and one failed to record would it have been too much to expect Leicester Police to get their act together THE VERY NEXT DAY? On the 9th April  Russell O'Brien spent from just before 10 am until 8.15pm  giving a series of 5 interviews spaced out over TEN HOURS THE DAY AFTER THE TECHNICAL FAILURE OF 1/4 OF OLDFIELD'S INTERVIEWS LEFT A GAPING HOLE IN THE NARRATIVE.

A new tongue twister for y'all: The Leicester Police displeaseth us.

j.rob wrote:There is often a huge culture of cover-up within large organisations and institutions and the whistle blower is often hounded down and metaphorically shot in the back. The NHS is bad in this respect as I myself have witnessed at first hand. Education is another area where there can be a culture of bullying and narcissistic behaviour - and I'm not just talking about the pupils! Again, I have had first hand experience of this and it ain't pretty. It only takes one psychopath (or similar) quite high up in the organization to infect practically the whole organization. The fall out can be astounding as staff are bullied and targeted with psychological 'mind games' (often the attacker will accuse the target of the precise behaviour that they themselves are guilty of - for instance: 'you are unprofessional', 'you can't cope with the pressure', 'it's all in your head', 'you have an attitude problem'. 

I've seen it again and again so now I can spot it a mile off. It's toxic behaviour and, unless you are clued up on it, it can leave you blind-sided. And attackers will often target those in a weak position, those who are not able to walk away easily, those who are dependent. They will carefully chose their 'victims' who will tend to have certain qualities that they themselves lack. 

Hence the sexual abuse of children in children's homes (for instance Casa Pia). Those children are some of the most vulnerable in society.  

The McCann story relies very heavily on the fact that this was a large group of professional people on a summer holiday with their young children at a holiday camp. To the average non-psychopathic person this will lead to a number of assumptions about the holiday. For instance, that the professionals will be respectable, caring parents who will be devoted to their children's well-being and happiness. That the parents will put a high priority on their children's emotional, physical and psychological well-being.

And so on.

After all, if you thought that your GP or your Consultant was the type of person who neglected or was abusive in some way towards children, or who had a deviant or anti-social characteristics you would not be able to trust them with your health or your children's health - the most important things you have, probably.

Unfortunately, there will be those in all fields who will abuse their position of trust to gain a perverted advantage over others. It only takes a gullible public who has been brainwashed into certain assumptions and prejudices.

But I do think that in Britain our sickness has been pretty bad for some time. The McCann Fiasco is the icing on the giant pile of dung.

So true Rob, I've seen it many times as well, within all sorts of environments.  Strangely I saw it more in the education and care industries than I ever did when I worked in the private sector.

MO interview part 3 at 14.14, technical problems, therefore no recording & no transcript of an interview that lasted 37 minutes.
 
Yet RO’B:
 
‘The interviews were visually recorded, however I understand that due to technical difficulties the equipment failed to record……….
 
I have been informed that this statement has been made from the monitoring notes which were taken at the time of the interviews being conducted.’
 
So they managed to come up with seemingly comprehensive transcripts for a whole days worth of interviews, yet couldn’t do the same for 37 minutes worth.
 
As with most things in this case, it just does not ring true & how convenient that the technical failures arise in order to not provide an effective audit trail of evidence and therefore enable ‘whooshability’ to any statements that may fall outside the party line.
 
The comprehensive nature of the RO’B transcripts leads me to conclude that either:
 
a/. a stenographer was present during the interview (but would surely have been introduced at the beginning, which didn’t happen & also the ‘taken from monitoring notes’ statement seems to preclude this)
 
b/. Technical failures happened after the event and after the transcripts were made (and adjusted or doctored?).
 
Maybe BHH, with his anti-corruption cap on, should be asked some further questions about general procedures for interviews & methods employed for checking that the vital recording equipment is working (I know this wasn’t the Met. but the principle is the same).

"So true Rob, I've seen it many times as well, within all sorts of environments.  Strangely I saw it more in the education and care industries than I ever did when I worked in the private sector."




Yes Cristobell, couldn't agree more. I have worked in the private sector in some pretty cut-throat environments but I never saw the same level of outright bullying and victimization that I saw in the education and care industries. There needs to be a more robust screening process to weed out the psychopaths/sadists and other assorted wierdos who can wreak absolute havoc in these supposedly 'caring' environments. Hiding their perverted tendencies behind smokescreens of 'care'. 

Astonishingly, or perhaps not, there are also more than a few nutters in among the ranks of the therapy/counselling/mental health industries. So there is not even necessarily any respite there for those who have been exposed to victimization, bullying or abuse. It really is quite a sorry state of affairs.

I blame it partly on an intensely competitive culture that places emphasis on profit and achievement as opposed to other values. As recent scandals have shown, the screening processes simply are not robust enough for highly sensitive roles such as caring for vulnerable children and so on. And if (at least some of) the politicians, senior police and other high ranking officers and professionals are going to close ranks and protect the guilty, then what hope is there? The legal and medical professions in the UK are pretty much self-regulating. Which has lead to all sorts of abuses of power. And there are countless stories of errant police (or social workers etc) being pensioned off on full salary. And all paid for by the tax payer! Nice work if you can get it.

And now we have Clarence Mitchell standing as an MP - really, that says it all!