Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

by aiyoyo 13.12.13 14:18

No Tannerman.

No Crecheman.

No Smithman.

No Abduction. End of Story.

Madeleine is not going to be delivered home this Christmas.

Maybe we should all go home and come back 2.62974e6 minutes later and see what Team Redwood has to report.

by suep 13.12.13 14:37

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
suep wrote:because Dianne Webster was at that table and I'm pretty sure she wasn't in on the conspiracy

What was Dianne Webster there for? She would have been an ideal babysitting candidate. Is there any more on her background anywhere?

I've not come across anything significant about Dianne. She seems to have spent a lot of time on her own apart from being a convenient cook at lunchtimes.I get the feeling, and it is just a feeling, that she must have felt like a fish out of water at that Tapas table every night. Why she went with them to Portugal when apparently her husband declined to go, has always puzzled me.
One thing, above everything else that has convinced me she wasn't in on the conspiracy was something she said in her statements to do with the last time she'd seen Madeleine. She was talking about the high tea that MW regularly provided for the children at the Tapas restaurant around 5pm, and she said 'apparently' she saw her there on the 3rd May. Why 'apparently'? That sounds to me that she'd been unsure and someone assured her that she'd seen Madeleine there. As many people have pointed out Dianne is the only one of the Tapas group whose statements have been consistent throughout and that word 'apparently' is part of that consistency.

by The Rooster 13.12.13 14:46

I think Payne is the weakest link, reading his statement tells me he was a wreck at that time. He's also in it up to his neck. Was it 30 seconds or was 30 mins. The time is irrelevant it's what he did that's relevant. A wife with bruises and a missing child. Go figure...

by **PeterMac** 13.12.13 17:47

suep wrote:
One thing, above everything else that has convinced me she wasn't in on the conspiracy was something she said in her statements to do with the last time she'd seen Madeleine. She was talking about the high tea that MW regularly provided for the children at the Tapas restaurant around 5pm, and she said 'apparently' she saw her there on the 3rd May. Why 'apparently'? That sounds to me that she'd been unsure and someone assured her that she'd seen Madeleine there. As many people have pointed out Dianne is the only one of the Tapas group whose statements have been consistent throughout and that word 'apparently' is part of that consistency.

This is one of my pet theories, so here is the bit from her Rogatory.

Diane Webster rogatory
4078 "Do you remember if you saw Madeleine that day?”
Reply"I don’t think I did see her that day because the fact that we’d gone down to the beach in the afternoon and we hadn’t got the kid, the high tea, had we gone to the high tea err with the children then yes we would have seen her, but err I don’t recollect err seeing her because in the morning at the tennis she would have been in the kids club.”
4078 "And if the time that you were watching the men play tennis, well if it was that day or a different day, can you remember much about that time if that’s sort of clear in your mind?”
Reply "What, in relation to…”
4078 "If, I’m just, it seemed to be clearer in your mind than some other things, you said you can remember standing there and the courts were lower and you can remember standing watching.”
Reply "Well yeah I can remember err I can remember watching the men playing tennis but I can’t put a day on it, I can’t, I can’t remember err I don’t know if it was that, I don’t think it was that night I think it might be another night.”
4078 "Okay.”
Reply "Because err when err when Madeleine went missing I, you know, I, my memory would have been fresher then and I don’t, I don’t remember seeing her on that day.”

And if Diane Webster is correct, then lots more falls into place. As we know know that Kate has told two different and mutually exclusive and contradictory stories about arriving back from the run.
In the book she says she returned to find them all at tea. The creche sheets show her signing Madeleine out at 5:30
Everyone else is very carful to state that they were all down at the Paraiso - first and only time - and well away from having to give any form of statement or testimony.
Then Kate says that Madeleine was so shattered and exhausted she had to be carried back to the apartment, and safely out of the way.
Despite an afternoon doing nothing more than finger-painting - no high diving, or scuba or wind surfing, or half marathons on soft sand for the toddlers that afternoon !
And that is the day of the Last Photo, taken at lunch time, when there was no one else there.
Also the day that Payne visited for his 30 second or 30 minute session and saw all the children dressed in WHITE. One supposes therefore that they changed into their coloured pyjamas later.

But let us not try to make it make sense.

by Miraflores 13.12.13 17:53

As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

by Guest 13.12.13 18:13

Miraflores wrote:As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

Let's all pray there wasn't a tracheotomy went awry, shall we?

by bobbin 13.12.13 18:21

Portia wrote:
Miraflores wrote:As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

Let's all pray there wasn't a tracheotomy went awry, shall we?

I remember that that was a question that was posed. Someone with a medical background remarked on it after the Martin Brunt Sky News broadcast right at the beginning re the forensic blood spattering marks on the walls consistent with a fine spray..... I can't remember if tracheotomy was actually mentioned but I know it lead to discussion....may not even have been this forum. I was watching several fora at the beginning, including the ones that got closed down.

by Mirage 13.12.13 19:05

PeterMac wrote:
suep wrote:
One thing, above everything else that has convinced me she wasn't in on the conspiracy was something she said in her statements to do with the last time she'd seen Madeleine. She was talking about the high tea that MW regularly provided for the children at the Tapas restaurant around 5pm, and she said 'apparently' she saw her there on the 3rd May. Why 'apparently'? That sounds to me that she'd been unsure and someone assured her that she'd seen Madeleine there. As many people have pointed out Dianne is the only one of the Tapas group whose statements have been consistent throughout and that word 'apparently' is part of that consistency.

This is one of my pet theories, so here is the bit from her Rogatory.
Diane Webster rogatory
4078 "Do you remember if you saw Madeleine that day?”
Reply"I don’t think I did see her that day because the fact that we’d gone down to the beach in the afternoon and we hadn’t got the kid, the high tea, had we gone to the high tea err with the children then yes we would have seen her, but err I don’t recollect err seeing her because in the morning at the tennis she would have been in the kids club.”
4078 "And if the time that you were watching the men play tennis, well if it was that day or a different day, can you remember much about that time if that’s sort of clear in your mind?”
Reply "What, in relation to…”
4078 "If, I’m just, it seemed to be clearer in your mind than some other things, you said you can remember standing there and the courts were lower and you can remember standing watching.”
Reply "Well yeah I can remember err I can remember watching the men playing tennis but I can’t put a day on it, I can’t, I can’t remember err I don’t know if it was that, I don’t think it was that night I think it might be another night.”
4078 "Okay.”
Reply "Because err when err when Madeleine went missing I, you know, I, my memory would have been fresher then and I don’t, I don’t remember seeing her on that day.”

And if Diane Webster is correct, then lots more falls into place. As we know know that Kate has told two different and mutually exclusive and contradictory stories about arriving back from the run.
In the book she says she returned to find them all at tea. The creche sheets show her signing Madeleine out at 5:30
Everyone else is very carful to state that they were all down at the Paraiso - first and only time - and well away from having to give any form of statement or testimony.
Then Kate says that Madeleine was so shattered and exhausted she had to be carried back to the apartment, and safely out of the way.
Despite an afternoon doing nothing more than finger-painting - no high diving, or scuba or wind surfing, or half marathons on soft sand for the toddlers that afternoon !
And that is the day of the Last Photo, taken at lunch time, when there was no one else there.
Also the day that Payne visited for his 30 second or 30 minute session and saw all the children dressed in WHITE. One supposes therefore that they changed into their coloured pyjamas later.

But let us not try to make it make sense.

Whilst Dianne Webster has been by far the most consistent of the Tapas group, let's not forget her volte face about whether she - along with DP and FP - saw MO on their way to the tapas bar on 3/5. She had originally testified they had definitely not encountered MO coming to chivvy them along. Then in her Rogatory with Leicester Police, she retracted that - volunteered it right at the start of the interview in fact. She even recounted the conversation between them that MO had originally given in his statement. Interestingly this change of mind happened post Rothley. Hence, I'm not a bit surprised by her "apparently in respect of seeing MM at tea.

If she knew nothing at the time ( I suspect she probably didn't on balance) , she sure knew more by the time she came to give these statements. IMO.

by bobbin 13.12.13 19:22

Mirage wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
suep wrote:
One thing, above everything else that has convinced me she wasn't in on the conspiracy was something she said in her statements to do with the last time she'd seen Madeleine. She was talking about the high tea that MW regularly provided for the children at the Tapas restaurant around 5pm, and she said 'apparently' she saw her there on the 3rd May. Why 'apparently'? That sounds to me that she'd been unsure and someone assured her that she'd seen Madeleine there. As many people have pointed out Dianne is the only one of the Tapas group whose statements have been consistent throughout and that word 'apparently' is part of that consistency.

This is one of my pet theories, so here is the bit from her Rogatory.
Diane Webster rogatory
4078 "Do you remember if you saw Madeleine that day?”
Reply"I don’t think I did see her that day because the fact that we’d gone down to the beach in the afternoon and we hadn’t got the kid, the high tea, had we gone to the high tea err with the children then yes we would have seen her, but err I don’t recollect err seeing her because in the morning at the tennis she would have been in the kids club.”
4078 "And if the time that you were watching the men play tennis, well if it was that day or a different day, can you remember much about that time if that’s sort of clear in your mind?”
Reply "What, in relation to…”
4078 "If, I’m just, it seemed to be clearer in your mind than some other things, you said you can remember standing there and the courts were lower and you can remember standing watching.”
Reply "Well yeah I can remember err I can remember watching the men playing tennis but I can’t put a day on it, I can’t, I can’t remember err I don’t know if it was that, I don’t think it was that night I think it might be another night.”
4078 "Okay.”
Reply "Because err when err when Madeleine went missing I, you know, I, my memory would have been fresher then and I don’t, I don’t remember seeing her on that day.”

And if Diane Webster is correct, then lots more falls into place. As we know know that Kate has told two different and mutually exclusive and contradictory stories about arriving back from the run.
In the book she says she returned to find them all at tea. The creche sheets show her signing Madeleine out at 5:30
Everyone else is very carful to state that they were all down at the Paraiso - first and only time - and well away from having to give any form of statement or testimony.
Then Kate says that Madeleine was so shattered and exhausted she had to be carried back to the apartment, and safely out of the way.
Despite an afternoon doing nothing more than finger-painting - no high diving, or scuba or wind surfing, or half marathons on soft sand for the toddlers that afternoon !
And that is the day of the Last Photo, taken at lunch time, when there was no one else there.
Also the day that Payne visited for his 30 second or 30 minute session and saw all the children dressed in WHITE. One supposes therefore that they changed into their coloured pyjamas later.

But let us not try to make it make sense.

Whilst Dianne Webster has been by far the most consistent of the Tapas group, let's not forget her volte face about whether she - along with DP and FP - saw MO on their way to the tapas bar on 3/5. She had originally testified they had definitely not encountered MO coming to chivvy them along. Then in her Rogatory with Leicester Police, she retracted that - volunteered it right at the start of the interview in fact. She even recounted the conversation between them that MO had originally given in his statement. Interestingly this change of mind happened post Rothley. Hence, I'm not a bit surprised by her "apparently in respect of seeing MM at tea.

If she knew nothing at the time ( I suspect she probably didn't on balance) , she sure knew more by the time she came to give these statements. IMO.

Highlighted above....we hadn't got the kid,...
What child is she talking about, one of Payne's children ? They had Lilli and Scarlett. Which kid was not with them when they went to the beach ? The one doubling up in creche as Maddie ? does any one have a clue as to what Dianne Webster is referring to here.

by Penfold 13.12.13 19:23

Miraflores wrote:As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

They do insert stents in the heart -not a procedure I'd particularly want a clumsy cardiologist to do!

by Mirage 13.12.13 19:55

11/05/07 Dianne Webster.
Processos Vol IV. Witness statement to Portuguese police.

Asked, she adds that she went to the restaurant in the company of her daughter and son-in-law.

Asked directly if someone had gone to her apartment to call them (herself and the Payne couple) for dinner the witness said no.

Asked if there was the possibility of having crossed paths with someone during the journey between her apartment and restaurant, the witness said no.

That night she judges to have arrived at the restaurant close to 21h00, in the company of the Payne couple.

Rogatory Interview at Leics Police HQ. Dianne Webster. 11/04/08

Dianne Webster: Err and the thing that I didn’t mention at the original err interview in Portugal was that I do vaguely remember seeing Matt, he was coming up because I think he made some joke about coming up to see where we were because we were so late, but he was actually on his way to check err check the children.

4078: ”Do you remember who was there when you got there?”

Reply: "Well Matt obviously wasn’t because we we’d just passed him but of course I don’t remember this at the time, and I think in my original statement I thought maybe Gerry wasn’t there, but maybe he was, you know, I don’t know.”

-----------------------------------

Disingenuous of her to suggest "I didn't mention at the err original interview in Portugal" It was put to her two definite ways and she said no, she hadn't encountered anyone coming to get them. Then a whole 11 months later her memory improves to recall meeting MO, sharing a joke about coming up because they were late.

Vaguely remember MO at first. Then relates the conversation from a vague recollection. Then moves on quickly to assert that obviously he wasn't at the tapas restaurant when they got there because they'd just passed him. It's the "but of course, I don't remember this at the time" that gets me. What she should have said was "I didn't remember when I was asked" This smacks of coaching, IMO. Rothley has by now happened, of course.

I don't buy it. Any of the above. It's a deeply flawed account and this should have been picked apart at the time.

But wait, they were all allowed to view each others' statements weren't they?

Couldn't get their story straight in PdL. Couldn't get their story straight at Leics, nor any time since.

by NickE 13.12.13 20:12

I have received information that PJ will request a new reconstruction in PdL.
Can anyone confirm this, or any other information on this?

by Guest 13.12.13 20:39

is it from a reliable source nicke?can't imagine they will be up for it this time either...

by Guest 13.12.13 20:51

Penfold wrote:

They do insert stents in the heart -not a procedure I'd particularly want a clumsy cardiologist to do!

I've seen suggestion here that some of the photos point to M having water on the brain, which also requires a stent. I really hope they weren't attempting anything like that themselves.

by ekatae 14.12.13 0:09

DELETED

by ultimaThule 14.12.13 4:04

Penfold wrote:
Miraflores wrote:As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

They do insert stents in the heart -not a procedure I'd particularly want a clumsy cardiologist to do!

Angioplasty is a non-surgical treament and the skills required by a cardiologist to undertake this procedure, which usually takes less than an hour, cannot be compared to those of a cardiothoracic surgeon who performs open heart surgery in operations which last 12-14 hours and more.

I seem to recall reading on this site the tale of a visitor to the McCanns' home who suffered a heart attack, or similar cardiac problem, whereupon GM took himself off to phone an ambulance while KM was left to minister to the patient with the help of Madeleine who fetched her toy stethoscope/doctor kit.

by Guest 14.12.13 10:23

IIRC it was Kate herself, who wrote this by ways of an anecdote on how clever Madeleine was. She failed to see, it was revealing more than that ...

by Penfold 14.12.13 11:12

ultimaThule wrote:
Penfold wrote:
Miraflores wrote:As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

They do insert stents in the heart -not a procedure I'd particularly want a clumsy cardiologist to do!

Angioplasty is a non-surgical treament and the skills required by a cardiologist to undertake this procedure, which usually takes less than an hour, cannot be compared to those of a cardiothoracic surgeon who performs open heart surgery in operations which last 12-14 hours and more.

I know uT [ from personal experience ] - I wasn't comparing the 'skills' of the gifted GM to a cardiothoracic surgeon. Simply that I wouldn't want anyone who couldn't work window shutters, and broke them trying, to be fiddling about with a catheter in my groin, aiming for my heart! big grin

by ultimaThule 14.12.13 11:39

I wouldn't want GM fiddling about within a mile of any part of my body, Penfold affraid

As it appears that Dr McCann is now pursuing his hospital career in the backroom of' 'research', I'm guessing those good folk of Leicestershire who had need of cardiogical intervention were of the same mind big grin

by Mirage 14.12.13 12:15

Penfold wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:
Penfold wrote:
Miraflores wrote:As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

They do insert stents in the heart -not a procedure I'd particularly want a clumsy cardiologist to do!

Angioplasty is a non-surgical treament and the skills required by a cardiologist to undertake this procedure, which usually takes less than an hour, cannot be compared to those of a cardiothoracic surgeon who performs open heart surgery in operations which last 12-14 hours and more.

I know uT [ from personal experience ] - I wasn't comparing the 'skills' of the gifted GM to a cardiothoracic surgeon. Simply that I wouldn't want anyone who couldn't work window shutters, and broke them trying, to be fiddling about with a catheter in my groin, aiming for my heart!

What? Not even if he assured you he could see a tunnel up ahead with a bright light to show him the way! big grin

by Penfold 14.12.13 12:48

by suep 14.12.13 15:02

Miraflores wrote:As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

Cardiologists are often involved in regulating heart functions through devices like pacemakers and arterial stents, and may also work with therapeutic medications that must be injected intravenously. These are invasive procedures which require a very steady hand, good hand eye co-ordination and a great deal of dexterity and skill.

by Guest 14.12.13 15:08

Mightn't that rule out any invasive doctor-patient contacts in case of habitual drinking?

What sort of research has dr. GM been relegated to?

by aiyoyo 14.12.13 15:18

OT (sort of)

Wonder why Grange is taking forever?

They TIED Tannerman, at the same time put out 2-misfits generating a whole load of data/workload that requires a considerable amount of manpower and time to shift through.

And I though Redwood's revelation moment had to do with phone records? If they're still working on phone forensics and nothing much else ......then......

Tannerman gone
Crecheman gone.
Smithman gone.

What's left?

Is it time to pack up and go home?

by suep 14.12.13 15:21

Mirage wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
suep wrote:
One thing, above everything else that has convinced me she wasn't in on the conspiracy was something she said in her statements to do with the last time she'd seen Madeleine. She was talking about the high tea that MW regularly provided for the children at the Tapas restaurant around 5pm, and she said 'apparently' she saw her there on the 3rd May. Why 'apparently'? That sounds to me that she'd been unsure and someone assured her that she'd seen Madeleine there. As many people have pointed out Dianne is the only one of the Tapas group whose statements have been consistent throughout and that word 'apparently' is part of that consistency.

This is one of my pet theories, so here is the bit from her Rogatory.
Diane Webster rogatory
4078 "Do you remember if you saw Madeleine that day?”
Reply"I don’t think I did see her that day because the fact that we’d gone down to the beach in the afternoon and we hadn’t got the kid, the high tea, had we gone to the high tea err with the children then yes we would have seen her, but err I don’t recollect err seeing her because in the morning at the tennis she would have been in the kids club.”
4078 "And if the time that you were watching the men play tennis, well if it was that day or a different day, can you remember much about that time if that’s sort of clear in your mind?”
Reply "What, in relation to…”
4078 "If, I’m just, it seemed to be clearer in your mind than some other things, you said you can remember standing there and the courts were lower and you can remember standing watching.”
Reply "Well yeah I can remember err I can remember watching the men playing tennis but I can’t put a day on it, I can’t, I can’t remember err I don’t know if it was that, I don’t think it was that night I think it might be another night.”
4078 "Okay.”
Reply "Because err when err when Madeleine went missing I, you know, I, my memory would have been fresher then and I don’t, I don’t remember seeing her on that day.”

And if Diane Webster is correct, then lots more falls into place. As we know know that Kate has told two different and mutually exclusive and contradictory stories about arriving back from the run.
In the book she says she returned to find them all at tea. The creche sheets show her signing Madeleine out at 5:30
Everyone else is very carful to state that they were all down at the Paraiso - first and only time - and well away from having to give any form of statement or testimony.
Then Kate says that Madeleine was so shattered and exhausted she had to be carried back to the apartment, and safely out of the way.
Despite an afternoon doing nothing more than finger-painting - no high diving, or scuba or wind surfing, or half marathons on soft sand for the toddlers that afternoon !
And that is the day of the Last Photo, taken at lunch time, when there was no one else there.
Also the day that Payne visited for his 30 second or 30 minute session and saw all the children dressed in WHITE. One supposes therefore that they changed into their coloured pyjamas later.

But let us not try to make it make sense.

Whilst Dianne Webster has been by far the most consistent of the Tapas group, let's not forget her volte face about whether she - along with DP and FP - saw MO on their way to the tapas bar on 3/5. She had originally testified they had definitely not encountered MO coming to chivvy them along. Then in her Rogatory with Leicester Police, she retracted that - volunteered it right at the start of the interview in fact. She even recounted the conversation between them that MO had originally given in his statement. Interestingly this change of mind happened post Rothley. Hence, I'm not a bit surprised by her "apparently in respect of seeing MM at tea.

If she knew nothing at the time ( I suspect she probably didn't on balance) , she sure knew more by the time she came to give these statements. IMO.

I think you're right, Mirage. I seem to remember Diane commented a lot about how strange it was that the twins didn't wake up amidst all the commotion and despite being lifted from their cots and carried by strangers to another apartment. There must have been a lot of things happening that she found odd and she must have questioned this. They would have no choice but to 'bring her on board'. Then there's the problem of her husband who'd stayed at home. Its possible he would have to be told as well. If I were investigating this I would want to interview him definitely.

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