Re: Alex Woolfall 'knows': 'The Last Photo', and other photos of Madeleine in Praia da Luz

by sami 27.01.14 18:29

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This is the only photo I can find with him wearing sun glasses. The pair Kate wears in the photo appear in others.

by Rasputin 27.01.14 18:34

sami wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This is the only photo I can find with him wearing sun glasses. The pair Kate wears in the photo appear in others.

Thank you Sami ...in this image the sunglasses look more masculine , if they are the same frame .

by Guest 27.01.14 18:43

sami wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This is the only photo I can find with him wearing sun glasses. The pair Kate wears in the photo appear in others.

Thank you sami

They are not the same sunglasses he was wearing in the pool photo.
(this photo was before they started their "Grand Tour")
So either in between "looking for Madeleine" he nipped back to the "sunglasses shop" for another pair.
Or he already had another pair making the story about the 1st May a complete farce.

by bobbin 27.01.14 19:22

dantezebu wrote:
Portia wrote:
dantezebu wrote:Are they the new ones he bought at "sunglasses corner?"

Could be

So where are his old ones?

KM made a big deal about them stopping to buy sunglasses for GM on their way back from the beach on 1st May in her book. Apparently he didn't have any.
She also wrote about it in her diary:

"Tuesday 01.05.2007 (holiday)
Breakfast apartment
Kids club - mini-tennis ↓
09.15-10.15 K ↓
G 10.15-11.15 ↓
Madeleine and Ella
* Get camera
Lunch → apartment
RAIN
Kids club beach, sunglasses
Ice cream
13:30 → 15:00 ish
Kids club? 15.15
? time not so good
? G tennis lessons - ok
High tea 16:30
? recreational area
Restaurant? object tennis
No Russell, Evie felt ill
(5D) Russ remained in apartment
Food was brought up"

Why did she need to make sure this was dated? Was it to prove the pool photo came after the 1st May?

focussing on Russell, On 1st May, Kate pinpoints that Evie was ill and he stayed in apartment, food taken up.
So why, on 3rd May did he have to go to his apartment at 9.30, when Jane returned from her 9.15 check seeing Gerry, Jez and Tannerman, to rush her dinner, to go back to apartment, so Russell could go down to dinner again and have a new steak cooked because his meal had got cold when he went back to his 'supposed' sick child.
Was this the day he claims to have changed sheets, washed the child, changed clothes, washed the sheets in a matter of minutes before going back to dinner.
Why is Kate making so much of someone elses lives in HER diary for the twins later on. With just sparse words for all else, she suddenly gives almost sentences over, to Russell being with ill child, etc.

What does ? time not so good mean. It's not referring to weather but 'time'.

Was Ella in Maddie's creche group, if so, the tennis was on Tuesday 1st and not the Thursday 3rd when Jez Wilkins' wife waxed lyrical about Maddie, that she must have been on the court, as it was mini tennis time, although the girls all looked pink and pretty or whatever.

Kate fetching camera, (to photograph Maddie and the tennis balls).

Sounds like a lot of detail and effort to place Maddie on certain dates in certain places, yet according to Mrs. Fenn this would be the night when Maddie would be crying and Kate would be taking umbrage at Gerry ogling the busty quiz mistress in the Tapas.

Russell the Quiet is not at dinner that evening re sick child, yet why was he so often so absent during the meal on 3rd May, JUST BEFORE Kate let out her screams.

He left the table with MO at 9.30 on the 3rd May, to go to check his child.

This is the famous Matt Oldfield event, seeing the twins breathing, hidden behind the door and cot sides, yet not noticing Maddie's bed and whether she was in it or not, albeit the bed was in full view on opening the door, even less open than that needed to see the twins.

What were Matt Oldfield and Russell O'Brien actually doing at 9.30. AIMO.when Russell was laying claim to being superdad/sheet washing hero.

ETA will post in Russell thread where more appropriate.

by russiandoll 27.01.14 21:36

wrote elsewhere on the forum a while ago my idea that ROB was helping to prep his daughter for a walkabout in PdL at about 10pm.

Ella's crèche attendance that day was very strange as are a few of the entries for her on the crèche records at various times that week.

Same age as M, similar hair length at the time and similar dirty blonde colour.[ there is a photo of her being carried by her mother somewhere on the forum]

They OB's went over and above what casual pals would do. Some kind of obligation, I often wonder if there was a fatal accident to M while Tanner or ROB was present .

just a thought you know.. just an opinion.

by NickE 27.01.14 21:37

Check out the wall next to GM's elbow.
What do you think?

From the video:
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Another source,cropped:

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With MM:
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by Guest 27.01.14 21:54

NickE wrote:
Another source:

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I've no idea if the last photo is genuine or not, but the composition here is ten thousand times better than in the "original".

by worriedmum 27.01.14 23:12

Looking at them more carefully, the top two don't look the same to me. On the black and white larger version I think you can see that there has been some editing and cutting and pasting. Look at the three rocks with the shadows behind Amelie. The ones either side of the middle one have very similar shaped shadows, they llok cloned. I think this is a photo that has had Madeleine edited out, for some reason?

by ultimaThule 27.01.14 23:27

Or Sean edited out so that Madeleine could be photoshopped in?

by tiny 28.01.14 9:24

I haven't a clue about photography, but would,nt Gerry and amelia have a shadow

by sami 28.01.14 9:38

bobbin wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
Portia wrote:
dantezebu wrote:Are they the new ones he bought at "sunglasses corner?"

Could be

So where are his old ones?

KM made a big deal about them stopping to buy sunglasses for GM on their way back from the beach on 1st May in her book. Apparently he didn't have any.
She also wrote about it in her diary:

"Tuesday 01.05.2007 (holiday)
Breakfast apartment
Kids club - mini-tennis ↓
09.15-10.15 K ↓
G 10.15-11.15 ↓
Madeleine and Ella
* Get camera
Lunch → apartment
RAIN
Kids club beach, sunglasses
Ice cream
13:30 → 15:00 ish
Kids club? 15.15
? time not so good
? G tennis lessons - ok
High tea 16:30
? recreational area
Restaurant? object tennis
No Russell, Evie felt ill
(5D) Russ remained in apartment
Food was brought up"

Why did she need to make sure this was dated? Was it to prove the pool photo came after the 1st

Why is apartment 5D noted for Russ remaining in it ? If it was his apartment why the need to specifically state the number ? So Russ remained in apt 5D whilst Evie was ill, as opposed to Russ having been in another apartment at another time ? A strange distinction to make, in the context of this being her diary.

by Tangled Web 28.01.14 10:32

sami wrote:
bobbin wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
Portia wrote:
dantezebu wrote:Are they the new ones he bought at "sunglasses corner?"

Could be

So where are his old ones?

KM made a big deal about them stopping to buy sunglasses for GM on their way back from the beach on 1st May in her book. Apparently he didn't have any.
She also wrote about it in her diary:

"Tuesday 01.05.2007 (holiday)
Breakfast apartment
Kids club - mini-tennis ↓
09.15-10.15 K ↓
G 10.15-11.15 ↓
Madeleine and Ella
* Get camera
Lunch → apartment
RAIN
Kids club beach, sunglasses
Ice cream
13:30 → 15:00 ish
Kids club? 15.15
? time not so good
? G tennis lessons - ok
High tea 16:30
? recreational area
Restaurant? object tennis
No Russell, Evie felt ill
(5D) Russ remained in apartment
Food was brought up"

Why did she need to make sure this was dated? Was it to prove the pool photo came after the 1st

Why is apartment 5D noted for Russ remaining in it ? If it was his apartment why the need to specifically state the number ? So Russ remained in apt 5D whilst Evie was ill, as opposed to Russ having been in another apartment at another time ? A strange distinction to make, in the context of this being her diary.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised to find that the McCann's weren't even staying in 5A either. IIRC GA had his own suspicions about this too as he commented on lack of milk, food, kids toys etc. in the apartment. Also, the lack of DNA in there. I have three kids and an apartment resembles a bomb site after an hour. IMO 5A was used for 'staging' purposes.

by Guest 28.01.14 10:44

If Madeleine had "gone missing" on another day (1st May) it seems probable that the MCs would have camped out in another appartment while 5a was being cleaned and staged. And Maddie was on her own in there, until after the abduction when the twins were moved back in. All my own opinion.

by bobbin 28.01.14 10:58

NickE wrote:Check out the wall next to GM's elbow.
What do you think?

From the video:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Another source,cropped:

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With MM:
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Apart from considerable inconsistencies in the walls /stones, in both pictures, the green plant at base of wall falls to the right of the tree trunk in the coloured photo, and it falls in the middle of the trunk in the black and white photo.
You may need to look back at NickE's post (around 10.37, page 41) to see the original black and white. Copying it here loses the green plant at middle position of tree trunk.

by Mirage 28.01.14 11:09

I found this comment on a Mumsnet board discussing the best times to visit Algarve for the weather:

"We also went end of May 27th 2007, and it was around 25 c most days with no rain or much cloud. Seemed to be a big difference between beginning and end of May."
----------------------
I wondered whether this photo of GM and A was taken post 3 May. The weather fits. The bougainvillea is in full bloom. GM is sweating in heat. They were still at the complex. Maybe just prior to GM's trip home and the belated release of the last photo.

by bobbin 28.01.14 11:15

Mirage wrote:I found this comment on a Mumsnet board discussing the best times to visit Algarve for the weather:

"We also went end of May 27th 2007, and it was around 25 c most days with no rain or much cloud. Seemed to be a big difference between beginning and end of May."
----------------------
I wondered whether this photo of GM and A was taken post 3 May. The weather fits. The bougainvillea is in full bloom. GM is sweating in heat. They were still at the complex. Maybe just prior to GM's trip home and the belated release of the last photo.

I am also still suspect of the photo and its timing and composition.
Re Shadows.
Why does Amelie's hat, with its rather wide brim cast a shadow down to half way up her chest,
Yet Gerry's chin and nose, albeit big and protruding, casts a shadow way down his chest, beyond the equivalent reach of Amelie's shadow.
Gerry's nose and chin are not as big as Amelie's hat brim.
IMO the angle of sun/shadow on Gerry's T shirt is NOT THE SAME ANGLE as Amelie's shadow.

by Mirage 28.01.14 11:30

bobbin wrote:
Mirage wrote:I found this comment on a Mumsnet board discussing the best times to visit Algarve for the weather:

"We also went end of May 27th 2007, and it was around 25 c most days with no rain or much cloud. Seemed to be a big difference between beginning and end of May."
----------------------
I wondered whether this photo of GM and A was taken post 3 May. The weather fits. The bougainvillea is in full bloom. GM is sweating in heat. They were still at the complex. Maybe just prior to GM's trip home and the belated release of the last photo.
I am also still suspect of the photo and its timing and composition.
Re Shadows.
Why does Amelie's hat, with its rather wide brim cast a shadow down to half way up her chest,
Yet Gerry's chin and nose, albeit big and protruding, casts a shadow way down his chest, beyond the equivalent reach of Amelie's shadow.
Gerry's nose and chin are not as big as Amelie's hat brim.
IMO the angle of sun/shadow on Gerry's T shirt is NOT THE SAME ANGLE as Amelie's shadow.

It never rings right on any level. KM described it "as a fun time, a particularly fun time" on CW, as if she were casting around for a way of elaborating and then just repeating a rather lame description. It was their last photo for heaven's sake. I read an article a couple of days ago with April Jones' parents talking in loving and warm detail about their daughter and the contrast couldn't be greater.

On CW they showed KM sitting there too, which is a different presentation to a public, who are used to seeing the above scene.

I have been to Algarve in both April and May. The weather described by KM and JT by their repeated testimonies brings back memories of a chilly wind. Not relax-by-the-pool weather by any means. I have also seen this transition in May from the chilly windy days to the suddenly hot sunny weather described in my previous post. It is the difference between day and night.

by Doug D 28.01.14 14:38

I believe I am right in saying that the ‘playground’ photo does appear in the black & white obscured photos from the PJ files, whereas the ‘last’ photo does not and I am sure that both police forces are by now fully aware of when, where & how this photo originated.

Even for a ‘wet behind the ears new recruit’ (I’m not saying there was one), it can’t be difficult to look at all of the photos taken by the other guests (with hopefully undoctored date & time lines) and verify whether it was feasible that it was taken when reported, which is something we can’t do unfortunately from the photos on file.

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However, just looking through the b& w obscured photos I noticed nos. 42 & 77, which is a family (McC’s?) sitting on the front edge of the little pool and there doesn’t appear to be any water in it! Was it filled that week? All the chairs are evenly spaced & there is nobody on any of them, so whatever day this was, it obviously wasn’t a scorcher.

eta. Forget about no water. They are sitting on the front kerb & the black line is the front edge of the pool, not the bottom.

by rustyjames 29.01.14 13:09

NickE wrote:Check out the wall next to GM's elbow.
What do you think?

bobbin wrote:Apart from considerable inconsistencies in the walls /stones, in both pictures, the green plant at base of wall falls to the right of the tree trunk in the coloured photo, and it falls in the middle of the trunk in the black and white photo.
You may need to look back at NickE's post (around 10.37, page 41) to see the original black and white. Copying it here loses the green plant at middle position of tree trunk.

bobbin wrote:Re Shadows.
Why does Amelie's hat, with its rather wide brim cast a shadow down to half way up her chest,
Yet Gerry's chin and nose, albeit big and protruding, casts a shadow way down his chest, beyond the equivalent reach of Amelie's shadow.
Gerry's nose and chin are not as big as Amelie's hat brim.
IMO the angle of sun/shadow on Gerry's T shirt is NOT THE SAME ANGLE as Amelie's shadow.

The first two pictures just appear to be different attempts at cropping out Madeleine from the photo to show what can be done. Neither are perfect. To fill the gap left something has to be created, the most easy being duplicating something from the original. In both cases the section where the weed was has been used and if you look carefully you can see the remains of it copied but made to look more like the wall.

As for the shadows I spent a lot of time on that in the 3arguidos days. I don't think I ever published my version of the picture, but to me the shadows are probably consistent. In the picture the sunbeds and the shadow on Gerry's shirt of the left side of the frame give the direction of the light. Parallel lines drawn relative to those seem consistent with the shadows of other points in the picture such as Madeleine's hair.

I'm sure there was discussion in the past on the angle of the sun and whether anything could be deduced from that regarding the time of day / date.

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by Guest 29.01.14 13:25

bobbin wrote:
NickE wrote:Check out the wall next to GM's elbow.
What do you think?

From the video:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Another source,cropped:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

With MM:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Apart from considerable inconsistencies in the walls /stones, in both pictures, the green plant at base of wall falls to the right of the tree trunk in the coloured photo, and it falls in the middle of the trunk in the black and white photo.
You may need to look back at NickE's post (around 10.37, page 41) to see the original black and white. Copying it here loses the green plant at middle position of tree trunk.

Bobbin, you're right. The wall behind GMs left elbow is different on both pictures. The black and white one has a round flagstone first while the colored one has only half a flagstone next to the elbow. ground level also differs.
Another thing which struck me, that GM's upper thighs don't bend around the edge of the pool. It almost looks as if he is floating over this edge. Could it be that GM has been shopped in, instead of MM? Just wondering.

by bobbin 29.01.14 13:59

rustyjames wrote:
NickE wrote:Check out the wall next to GM's elbow.
What do you think?

bobbin wrote:Apart from considerable inconsistencies in the walls /stones, in both pictures, the green plant at base of wall falls to the right of the tree trunk in the coloured photo, and it falls in the middle of the trunk in the black and white photo.
You may need to look back at NickE's post (around 10.37, page 41) to see the original black and white. Copying it here loses the green plant at middle position of tree trunk.

bobbin wrote:Re Shadows.
Why does Amelie's hat, with its rather wide brim cast a shadow down to half way up her chest,
Yet Gerry's chin and nose, albeit big and protruding, casts a shadow way down his chest, beyond the equivalent reach of Amelie's shadow.
Gerry's nose and chin are not as big as Amelie's hat brim.
IMO the angle of sun/shadow on Gerry's T shirt is NOT THE SAME ANGLE as Amelie's shadow.

The first two pictures just appear to be different attempts at cropping out Madeleine from the photo to show what can be done. Neither are perfect. To fill the gap left something has to be created, the most easy being duplicating something from the original. In both cases the section where the weed was has been used and if you look carefully you can see the remains of it copied but made to look more like the wall.

As for the shadows I spent a lot of time on that in the 3arguidos days. I don't think I ever published my version of the picture, but to me the shadows are probably consistent. In the picture the sunbeds and the shadow on Gerry's shirt of the left side of the frame give the direction of the light. Parallel lines drawn relative to those seem consistent with the shadows of other points in the picture such as Madeleine's hair.

I'm sure there was discussion in the past on the angle of the sun and whether anything could be deduced from that regarding the time of day / date.

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rustyjames, thanks for your efforts but anyone can draw red lines onto a picture, red pen and ruler will do the job adequately.
What I was focussing on is the ‘length’ of the shadow of Gerry’s face down his T shirt.

It is not his forehead nor hair that creates the long, bottom part of the shadow.
His hair is shadowed on his forehead and stops there, it does NOT continue to create any shadow on the T shirt.

The sun is fully on Gerry’s nose, and then chin, which are responsible for making the lowest part of the shadow on the T shirt.

My comment is that Gerry’s nose cannot stick out further than Amelie’s hat brim.

Although I accept that Gerry has told so many lies that he probably ‘out-noses’ Pinocchio, his nose still can’t be more sticky out than a brim which completely covers the little girl’s face down to her chest.
That after all is the ‘sole function’ of a sun hat, to cast a big shade.

Gerry’s schonk and chin cannot be casting that longer shadow down his T shirt than the large brim of Amelie’s hat which falls shorter than Gerry’s shadow.

The shadowing is the wrong way round.
The more sticky out the lit feature, the longer the shadow should be.
In this case, Amelie’s hat must stick out MORE than Gerry’s nose relative to their respective shadow lengths.

by rustyjames 29.01.14 14:03

Portia wrote:Bobbin, you're right. The wall behind GMs left elbow is different on both pictures. The black and white one has a round flagstone first while the colored one has only half a flagstone next to the elbow. ground level also differs.
Another thing which struck me, that GM's upper thighs don't bend around the edge of the pool. It almost looks as if he is floating over this edge. Could it be that GM has been shopped in, instead of MM? Just wondering.

I explained this in my last post. The picture in the video and the black and white one are two different photoshops but using the same technique - duplicating some of the background to fill in the gap. I assume both are also cropped because of the difficulty in adding what would be the missing hand.

This possibly makes it clearer where the duplication has taken place, especially the black and white one as it is higher resolution and you can see where the wall repeats.

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by rustyjames 29.01.14 14:21

bobbin wrote:
rustyjames, thanks for your efforts but anyone can draw red lines onto a picture, red pen and ruler will do the job adequately.

Agreed anyone can draw red lines, but they aren't just red lines but show the direction the sun must be falling. I agree the middle three lines are from the nose/chin. The next two to the left are across the glasses and then the next two to the left of those follow the left part of the frame. The head is upright or slightly back and combined with a slight indentation in the t-shirt in the chest area that area results in the longer shadow.

If you look at the angle of the light rays in comparison to the angle of his body compared to Amelie's, he is more upright leading to longer shadows.

All just my opinion after spending many hours on the photo back around 2008.

by Doug D 29.01.14 15:08

Thinking about the lack of the ‘last photo’ in the black & whites, is there any reason to think that this was not just another ‘good marketing ploy’ photo, purely constructed for the papers?

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‘The last photo’ as an idea in itself makes good copy and if, say, photo 42 was taken as the basis of the idea (doesn’t even matter if it’s not the McC’s in it) a photo round the pool, dipping your feet in the water, on a bright sunny day would fit the bill nicely.

Trouble is the empty sunbeds, which look as though they haven’t been moved all day, don’t lend themselves to the ‘bright sunny day’ they are looking for, but that’s not a problem when you can start from scratch & construct a wonderful holiday photo from any number of new or old photos and then add a time & date to suit.

by MissesWillYa 30.01.14 21:07

Who is this child (photo #75 from the holiday photos link)? Does anyone else think this girl looks similar to some of the photos we've been told are of Madeleine? I'm specifically thinking of her mouth, which looks like the "Madeleine's" mouth in certain photos, but not others. It's bigger, wider, the lips more pronounced. The best example is the Christmas photos where she's in red pajamas riding on Gerry's back with her cousin. THIS child below looks just like the "Madeleine" in those photos. The pumpkin-costume photo comes to mind, as do the "princess" photos in pink with a tiara or headband type of thing. "Madeleine's" mouth in those photos looks just like this child's to me, but quite different from other photos of Madeleine. I get an impression of blonder hair in this B&W photo as well, not exactly sure why. That Christmas photo and the princess photos also looked blonder than normal for Madeleine, IMO.

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