Re: The dogs and CI de Almeida's report.

by adventurer 11.11.13 21:19

Been lurking since joining and reading all the excellent research here. The thing is I have read that the dogs are not 100% reliable and can alert to other things, for instance blood from a living person, and also semen and nail clippings etc. Don't really know too much about it, but could this be a reason the dogs evidence could discounted. $i don\'t know$

by chillyheat 11.11.13 21:24

When it was said the dogs would initialy need 3 days in Murats house, but it only took two, do you think Murat got upset not having the dogs as guests for that extra day laughat

by brixham 11.11.13 21:30

adventurer wrote:Been lurking since joining and reading all the excellent research here. The thing is I have read that the dogs are not 100% reliable and can alert to other things, for instance blood from a living person, and also semen and nail clippings etc. Don't really know too much about it, but could this be a reason the dogs evidence could discounted. $i don\'t know$

But why we're all these potentially false alerts only in 5A or in the Megane? Surely the dogs would have made wrong alerts elsewhere too?

by AskTheDogsSandra 11.11.13 21:33

brixham wrote:
adventurer wrote:Been lurking since joining and reading all the excellent research here. The thing is I have read that the dogs are not 100% reliable and can alert to other things, for instance blood from a living person, and also semen and nail clippings etc. Don't really know too much about it, but could this be a reason the dogs evidence could discounted. $i don\'t know$
But why we're all these potentially false alerts only in 5A or in the Megane? Surely the dogs would have made wrong alerts elsewhere too?

No, Gerry said both dogs were "notoriously unreliable" in exactly the same place only in THEIR apartment and hire car. $i don\'t know$

by sami 11.11.13 21:41

AskTheDogsSandra wrote:
brixham wrote:
adventurer wrote:Been lurking since joining and reading all the excellent research here. The thing is I have read that the dogs are not 100% reliable and can alert to other things, for instance blood from a living person, and also semen and nail clippings etc. Don't really know too much about it, but could this be a reason the dogs evidence could discounted. $i don\'t know$
But why we're all these potentially false alerts only in 5A or in the Megane? Surely the dogs would have made wrong alerts elsewhere too?
No, Gerry said both dogs were "notoriously unreliable" in exactly the same place only in THEIR apartment and hire car. $i don\'t know$

At lease the dogs were consistent in their story, unlike the Tapas group.

So lets see, who would I trust in my corner Gerry McCann or Eddie and Keela ? No contest.

by Guest 11.11.13 21:48

sami wrote:
AskTheDogsSandra wrote:
brixham wrote:
adventurer wrote:Been lurking since joining and reading all the excellent research here. The thing is I have read that the dogs are not 100% reliable and can alert to other things, for instance blood from a living person, and also semen and nail clippings etc. Don't really know too much about it, but could this be a reason the dogs evidence could discounted. $i don\'t know$
But why we're all these potentially false alerts only in 5A or in the Megane? Surely the dogs would have made wrong alerts elsewhere too?
No, Gerry said both dogs were "notoriously unreliable" in exactly the same place only in THEIR apartment and hire car. $i don\'t know$
At lease the dogs were consistent in their story, unlike the Tapas group.

So lets see, who would I trust in my corner Gerry McCann or Eddie and Keela ? No contest.

Talking about being in a corner, take a look at the first two photos on this thread of Eddie alerting to death scent where the blue tennis bag was before it went missing with the pink blanket.

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by Smokeandmirrors 11.11.13 21:53

There really is no scope for the argument about alerting to other things, Eddie had 100% track record. Just because the body was not there to be found in no way changes his alerts. Martin Grimes was contracted by the FBI such is his reputation of excellence in this field, and obviously the dogs he trained too.

There have been many murders solved by cadaver dogs, it is really sheer desperation to try and discredited their excellent record in this one case because it just might present an inconvenient truth.

Besides, the alerts by BOTH dogs in the SAME places and ONLY places associated with the Mc's and NOWHERE else amongst 9 other cars and several other apartments, renders the false alert theory as completely risible.

by Dr What 11.11.13 22:16

I am not surprised GM was seen driving around whilst the searches were going on.He is a man who likes to be in control, to dictate, but for those hours/days he really must have been in a turmoil.Everything had gone wonderfully well up until those dogs arrived.
Yet still his instinct was to bluff it out.The name 'McCann' will forever go down in criminal history.Perpetrators will try to 'do a McCann', with appeals,funds, PR team and assorted lawyers at the ready.GM has done so much damage to the McCann name, that the twins will probably have to consider a name change just to avoid the questioning that will inevitably occur.

GM should have done 'the right thing' way back then and confessed, and saved his family the whispers that they will forever endure.

by **PeterMac** 12.11.13 8:52

This is copied from the e-book

Academic Papers

16 Cadaver dogs– a study on detection of contaminated carpet squares.
Abstract

Cadaver dogs are known as valuable forensic tools in crime scene investigations. Scientific
research attempting to verify their value is largely lacking, specifically for scents associated with
the early postmortem interval. The aim of our investigation was the comparative evaluation of the
reliability, accuracy, and specificity of three cadaver dogs belonging to the Hamburg State Police
in the detection of scents during the early postmortem interval.
MATERIAL AND METHODS:
Carpet squares were used as an odor transporting media after they had been contaminated with
the scent of two recently deceased bodies (PMI<3h). The contamination occurred for 2 min as
well as 10 min without any direct contact between the carpet and the corpse. Comparative
searches by the dogs were performed over a time period of 65 days (10 min contamination) and
35 days (2 min contamination).
RESULTS:
The results of this study indicate that the well-trained cadaver dog is an outstanding tool for crime
scene investigation displaying excellent sensitivity (75-100), specificity (91-100), and having a
positive predictive value (90-100), negative predictive value (90-100) as well as accuracy (92100).

17 Cadaver dog and handler team capabilities in the recovery of buried
human remains in the southeastern United States
Abstract

The detection of human remains that have been deliberately buried to escape detection is a
problem for law enforcement. Sometimes the cadaver dog and handler teams are successful,
while other times law enforcement and cadaver dog teams are frustrated in their search. Five field
trials tested the ability of four cadaver dog and handler teams to detect buried human remains.
Human and animal remains were buried in various forested areas during the summer months near
Tuscaloosa, Alabama. The remains ranged in decomposition from fresh to skeletonized. Cadaver
dogs detected with varying success: buried human remains at different stages of decomposition,
buried human remains at different depths, and buried decomposed human and animal remains.
The results from these trials showed that some cadaver dogs were able to locate skeletonized
remains buried at a significant depth. Fresh and skeletonized remains were found equally by the
cadaver dogs along with some caveats. Dog handlers affected the reliability of the cadaver dog
results. Observations and videotape of the cadaver dogs during field trials showed that they were
reliable in finding buried human remains.

18 The use of cadaver dogs in locating scattered, scavenged human
remains: preliminary field test results.
Abstract

Specially trained air scent detection canines (Canis familiaris) are commonly used by law
enforcement to detect narcotics, explosives or contraband, and by fire investigators to detect the
presence of accelerants. Dogs are also used by police, military, and civilian groups to locate lost
or missing persons, as well as victims of natural or mass disasters. A further subspecialty is
"cadaver" searching, or the use of canines to locate buried or concealed human remains. Recent
forensic investigations in central Alberta demonstrated that the use of cadaver dogs could be
expanded to include locating partial, scattered human remains dispersed by repeated animal
scavenging. Eight dog-and-handler teams participated in a two-month training program using
human and animal remains in various stages of decay as scent sources. Ten blind field tests were
then conducted which simulated actual search conditions. Recovery rates ranged between 57%
and 100%, indicating that properly trained cadaver dogs can make significant contributions in the
location and recovery of scattered human remains.

There really is little doubt that they alerted to the scent of a corpse.

by Guest 12.11.13 8:54

Thank you PeterMac. Here's the link to the e-book that you mentioned.

Michael McLean:

"Put yourself in the mind of a detective and work it out for yourself

Or put yourself in the place of a parent, and ask:
If you had let your child go on holiday with the McCanns and they lost her, would you accept their version?"

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by **PeterMac** 12.11.13 9:39

Or this, which I think under the circumstances is even better.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

by Guest 12.11.13 9:45

Gerry McCann: We have been advised our babysitters behaviour was legally well within the bounds of responsible babysitting.

Kate McCann: Hasn't the babysitter suffered enough without all these new lies coming out?

Gerry McCann: The babysitter has to concentrate on her own well-being now.

Gerry McCann: It could have been worse, the babysitter could have lost the twins too.

Kate McCann: Well it was the babysitter's holiday too.

Kate McCann: It cannot be considered a crime. Someone committed one, but it wasn't the babysitter.

Clarence Mitchell: If Maddie's dead, then she's dead, but not by the babysitter's hands.

Kate McCann: I think that it is only a small minority who is criticising the babysitter.

Clarence Mitchell: The babysitter doesn't cry in public, but there's plenty of tears backstage.

Kate McCann: There's not a day goes by when the babysitter doesn't think "Was that ok. Was she wrong in thinking that was ok?"

Babysitter: "This is my job now. I can see this becoming my full-time career, with this whole issue of child welfare and opposing paedophiles."

Gerry McCann: "One good thing to come out of all of this is that there is so much in the press, nobody knows what is true, and what isn't."

Gerry McCann: "The babysitter has done nothing against the law."

Gerry McCann: "Kate and I are totally 100% confident in the babysitter's innocence."

Gerry McCann: "The babysitter is being absolutely stitched up."

Kate McCann: "Whoever Madeleine's with she'll be giving them her tuppence worth."

by **PeterMac** 12.11.13 9:53

Cruel. But brilliant.

by Mirage 12.11.13 9:57

admin wrote:Gerry McCann: We have been advised our babysitters behaviour was legally well within the bounds of responsible babysitting.

Kate McCann: Hasn't the babysitter suffered enough without all these new lies coming out?

Gerry McCann: The babysitter has to concentrate on her own well-being now.

Gerry McCann: It could have been worse, the babysitter could have lost the twins too.

Kate McCann: Well it was the babysitter's holiday too.

Kate McCann: It cannot be considered a crime. Someone committed one, but it wasn't the babysitter.

Clarence Mitchell: If Maddie's dead, then she's dead, but not by the babysitter's hands.

Kate McCann: I think that it is only a small minority who is criticising the babysitter.

Clarence Mitchell: The babysitter doesn't cry in public, but there's plenty of tears backstage.

Kate McCann: There's not a day goes by when the babysitter doesn't think "Was that ok. Was she wrong in thinking that was ok?"

Babysitter: "This is my job now. I can see this becoming my full-time career, with this whole issue of child welfare and opposing paedophiles."

Gerry McCann: "One good thing to come out of all of this is that there is so much in the press, nobody knows what is true, and what isn't."

Gerry McCann: "The babysitter has done nothing against the law."

Gerry McCann: "Kate and I are totally 100% confident in the babysitter's innocence."

Gerry McCann: "The babysitter is being absolutely stitched up."

Kate McCann: "Whoever Madeleine's with she'll be giving them her tuppence worth."

Even the naysayers would have a problem with this. Chucks it into perspective for them. No wriggle room. Brilliant! clapping1

by **PeterMac** 12.11.13 10:05

Mirage wrote:Even the naysayers would have a problem with this. Chucks it into perspective for them. No wriggle room. Brilliant!

Yeah, but No, but Yeah, but no, But yeah, and anyway it wasn't the babysitter because we didn't even have one, so there, Shaddup ! ! !

by Guest 12.11.13 10:12

PeterMac wrote:
Mirage wrote:Even the naysayers would have a problem with this. Chucks it into perspective for them. No wriggle room. Brilliant!
Yeah, but No, but Yeah, but no, But yeah, and anyway it wasn't the babysitter because we didn't even have one, so there, Shaddup ! ! !

I think I love you PeterMac

by **tigger** 12.11.13 10:20

From the report: (link on post 1, page 1)

There is a coincidence between the marking of cadaver odour and blood, according to the Laboratory Report (partial) annexed to the 'Autos'.

Such markings, occurred behind the sofa of the living room (cadaver and blood odour/DNA), which proves that indubitably such piece of furniture was pushed back by someone, after the death of Madeleine McCann occurred. Because of the weak (small) vestiges recovered at such place, it is to admit as a strong hypothesis that the same was subjected to a wash, at the time the death occurred.

In the same way, the soft toy used by the dead child, found at the head of the bed where she usually slept (see photos about the initial forensics) reveals that someone put it there in a moment posterior to the death, once the bed doesn't have cadaver odour. This is, there occurred an intentional modification in order to simulate a 'picture' that doesn't correspond with the reality;

It must be added that the cadaver odour signalled a strong odour in the bedroom where the McCann slept, which can indicate the moving of the corpse from the actual death scene (living room) to the non visible part of the bedroom;

Furthermore a strong reaction for cadaver odour was made on Kate's clothes, which can indicate that she was in touch with the cadaver;

unquote

It's amazing what those dogs can tell you, no cadaver odour on the bed, but only on the toy on the bed. So the toy had been placed there after having been in contact with a dead body, if - as so many apologists like to argue - the cadaver odour found by the dogs was due to those jolly visits of Kate with daughters'favourite toy to the six corpses under her care, how come that Kate only transferred the scent to a small number of items all associated with Maddie and her own clothes.

Eta: I love this bit: While the tennis play was taking place another element of the group that had been in touch with Kate, in the apartment, in a period of time that could have taken between 30 seconds, according to Kate, and 30 minutes, according to Gerald.\unquote

I've heard of those marriages where people don't communicate any more ....

by IAmNotMerylStreep 12.11.13 10:25

tigger wrote:It's amazing what those dogs can tell you, no cadaver odour on the bed, but only on the toy on the bed. So the toy had been placed there after having been in contact with a dead body, if - as so many apologists like to argue - the cadaver odour found by the dogs was due to those jolly visits of Kate with daughters'favourite toy to the six corpses under her care, how come that Kate only transferred the scent to a small number of items all associated with Maddie and her own clothes.

So, if there was no cadaver odour on the bed, Madeleine was never put to bed when the twins were? Which means they must have been there when she died?

Unless they changed the sheets.

by Guest 12.11.13 10:27

IAmNotMerylStreep wrote:
tigger wrote:It's amazing what those dogs can tell you, no cadaver odour on the bed, but only on the toy on the bed. So the toy had been placed there after having been in contact with a dead body, if - as so many apologists like to argue - the cadaver odour found by the dogs was due to those jolly visits of Kate with daughters'favourite toy to the six corpses under her care, how come that Kate only transferred the scent to a small number of items all associated with Maddie and her own clothes.
So, if there was no cadaver odour on the bed, Madeleine was never put to bed when the twins were? Which means they must have been there when she died?

Unless they changed the sheets.

From the scene photos, it was evident that Maddie's bed had never been slept it. I'm amazed that anybody could believe otherwise.

by sami 12.11.13 10:32

Could the odour have transferred to the cat from Kate ? Cat and Madeleine in bed, Madeleine gets up, falls behind sofa and is discovered there. So cat and bed odour free. Kate in contact with Madeleine and later cuddle cat ?

by **tigger** 12.11.13 13:23

sami wrote:Could the odour have transferred to the cat from Kate ? Cat and Madeleine in bed, Madeleine gets up, falls behind sofa and is discovered there. So cat and bed odour free. Kate in contact with Madeleine and later cuddle cat ?

Probably direct contact as the Cuddlecat was washed twice at least before the dogs alerted to it.
I don't believe that Maddie died that night, neitherdoi believe it was simply a fall behind the sofa or the need to hide sedation drugs if there was to be a PM?

I believe they had more than enough important contacts to have it done in the UK where it could be manipulated into simple tragic accident - the T7 lied for them, how much easier for them to confirm an accident/pulling strings to transport seriously ill child to UK, sadly died. PM result arranged. Not a whisper of paedos, sedation, heartbroken parents who can simply say they were there when the accident happened.
All much easier lies than the ones we're stuck with. No Fund of course, few celebrity events and no Pope either.
Sympathy if it even got into the press, but sympathy doesn't buy you anything.

by Guest 12.11.13 13:31

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
IAmNotMerylStreep wrote:
tigger wrote:It's amazing what those dogs can tell you, no cadaver odour on the bed, but only on the toy on the bed. So the toy had been placed there after having been in contact with a dead body, if - as so many apologists like to argue - the cadaver odour found by the dogs was due to those jolly visits of Kate with daughters'favourite toy to the six corpses under her care, how come that Kate only transferred the scent to a small number of items all associated with Maddie and her own clothes.
So, if there was no cadaver odour on the bed, Madeleine was never put to bed when the twins were? Which means they must have been there when she died?

Unless they changed the sheets.
From the scene photos, it was evident that Maddie's bed had never been slept it. I'm amazed that anybody could believe otherwise.

ROB washing sheets at night always bugs me.

by Guest 12.11.13 13:32

That was supposedly because one of his children had been sick.

by Guest 12.11.13 13:47

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:That was supposedly because one of his children had been sick.

He must be a perfect husband then, because mine would have left them for me to deal with. Especially if he knew I would be coming back within minutes, as someone had just gone to fetch me. At a push maybe he would put them inside the machine. But turned it on?
With all that noise.
Especially as reception would have brought up some clean ones and taken the dirty away.

by worriedmum 12.11.13 13:55

dantezebu wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:That was supposedly because one of his children had been sick.
He must be a perfect husband then, because mine would have left them for me to deal with. Especially if he knew I would be coming back within minutes, as someone had just gone to fetch me. At a push maybe he would put them inside the machine. But turned it on?
With all that noise.
Especially as reception would have brought up some clean ones and taken the dirty away.

Yes I always wondered, was there a spare set of sheets in the apartment? Surely you wouldn't put a child who was already sickly into a cot with no sheets because of the cross-contamination...

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