Re: Life Before Portugal

by Guest 18.05.12 13:40

FH according to newspaper reports the McCanns themselves released the airport bus video.....................

The parents of Madeleine McCann have released the last video clips taken of their daughter before her disappearance in Portugal nearly four weeks ago.
Dressed in pink and holding a rucksack, the four-year-old can be seen walking onto a flight at East Midlands Airport.

The mobile phone footage also shows her on an airport bus in the Algarve

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by Guest 18.05.12 13:47

The footage was presumably taken by David Payne as he is the only who is not seen on the bus and it's his voice that can be heard talking to Madeleine and to Gerry. Goodness only knows why the eff off comment wasn't removed.

by jd 18.05.12 13:50

This airport bus video was released 'after' gerry made his dash back to the UK and when he got back to PDL, and clarence mitchell was on board the team which I think was his first job as there no press conference as such and just came out. It came out a day or two after the Last photo. The mccanns were out doing other things when this was released

by Nina 18.05.12 14:01

Jean wrote:The footage was presumably taken by David Payne as he is the only who is not seen on the bus and it's his voice that can be heard talking to Madeleine and to Gerry. Goodness only knows why the eff off comment wasn't removed.

Possibly because they never even noticed it was there. Some people use this word without a thought when they are with their friends/family, because it is the norm. They are more aware when they are in different situations with people not of their group.

by FH 18.05.12 14:20

monkey mind wrote:
Hummingbird wrote:
Every time I go down the accident line of events I keep coming to a halt when I get to the events that followed and their behaviour and body language and yes this could be fear but then how can you smile, laugh, have your hair done, go jogging, leave the twins in the creche and be sleeping soundly days after your beloved 3 year old has been abducted or has sadly passed away in an accident? You would have to show signs of distress and I for one have never seen any - that is why I believe it was planned. Again I am in no way 100% sure of this it is just the way my mind works and I am happy to hear everyone else's opinion even though it often put's a spanner in mine LOL - but that is why we have theories and as I said before finally one day we will have a theory with no holes and then that will be the day we finally say, this is it!!!

Personally, I like the way your mind works. Don't be bullied off your scent. Someone may try to derail you because it does not fit their own particular view, or perhaps because you may be right on the money. This is a good thread, you raise some excellent questions. Yesa good thread with some strange goings on.

Monkey mind, If that was aimed at me, I had no intention of bullying anyone off any scent. Since I joined the forum I have made it clear that I'm open to many scenarios, but if it doesn't make sense to me, then I will say so and happily defend why. People don't have to agree with me. That is the purpose of a discussion group. I hope hummingbird did not feel in any way bullied just because I favour a simpler version of events which also fits the facts. Either way, I think hummingbird and I are in agreement about the abduction theory, which is the main thing. We are each trying to make some sense of a load of misdirection, smoke and mirrors.

It could be equally said that perhaps it is you who is trying to distract people down a dead end and away from a particular theory?

by **tigger** 18.05.12 14:54

FH wrote:

BTW everyone on this thread - If Maddie was truly surplus to requirements then I can think of so many, much easier, much more convincing ways for a bunch of Dr's to deal with that situation, than this complete farce. I cannot see a group of people with good careers, who could loose everything if it went wrong, planning to get rid of an unwanted/sick child by going on holiday and doing the deed abroad and then all closing ranks to cover it up. Apart from it ruining their holiday, there's the expense, the chance of being caught and potentially going to prison in a foreign country where you don't speak the language and you don't know what the legal system is like. It is just too complicated and surely if it was prearranged their stories would sort of match. I still feel that something unexpected happened, that could have happened to anyone of them and the tapas sheeple grouped together because sheeples instincts tell them there is safety in numbers. UNQUOTE

(Please note FH: I copied and pasted, put the name of the poster at the top and clearly gave an unquote which I usually do in bold. I then start on the next paragraph - in this topic alone there are several instances of having your opinion passed off as mine - I would prefer this not to happen again)

So now we've had attribution, unquote and a note to you re this posting, all separated into paragraphs for clarity).

Here is my answer which is written by Tigger:
The bolded bit above has certainly occurred to many before, but there is only one way in which the money angle would work. I find that convincing in itself. I will do it in a separate topic - an old one as this about the time before Portugal.

by FH 18.05.12 15:52

tigger wrote:FH wrote:

BTW everyone on this thread - If Maddie was truly surplus to requirements then I can think of so many, much easier, much more convincing ways for a bunch of Dr's to deal with that situation, than this complete farce. I cannot see a group of people with good careers, who could loose everything if it went wrong, planning to get rid of an unwanted/sick child by going on holiday and doing the deed abroad and then all closing ranks to cover it up. Apart from it ruining their holiday, there's the expense, the chance of being caught and potentially going to prison in a foreign country where you don't speak the language and you don't know what the legal system is like. It is just too complicated and surely if it was prearranged their stories would sort of match. I still feel that something unexpected happened, that could have happened to anyone of them and the tapas sheeple grouped together because sheeples instincts tell them there is safety in numbers. UNQUOTE

(Please note FH: I copied and pasted, put the name of the poster at the top and clearly gave an unquote which I usually do in bold. I then start on the next paragraph - in this topic alone there are several instances of having your opinion passed off as mine - I would prefer this not to happen again)

So now we've had attribution, unquote and a note to you re this posting, all separated into paragraphs for clarity).

Here is my answer which is written by Tigger:
The bolded bit above has certainly occurred to many before, but there is only one way in which the money angle would work. I find that convincing in itself. I will do it in a separate topic - an old one as this about the time before Portugal.

Thanks for the tips. Sorry if I caused any offence. - I had no intention of passing off anyone else's opion as mine. I will try very hard not to do it again.

by **tigger** 18.05.12 16:00

Thank you for your apology FH - but it's having your posts as being under my name that's the trouble (for me). I'm vain enough to encourage everyone to pass my opinions off as their own! laughat

by Hummingbird 18.05.12 16:01

FH wrote:
Hummingbird wrote:

I can see your line of thinking here and as with everything we look into about the McCanns there are many sides to the theory. I for one actually don't think anyone other than the Mccanns know what happened, there is maybe one other person who knows, and I am working on this theory at the moment. I cannot believe that someone wouldn't have buckled by now. If you commit a crime surely the less people that know the better, I feel they went away with a big group of people to cause confusion. Anyway just another line of thinking. Also I don't believe this was a holiday for the McCanns and his comment on the airport shuttle bus proves that surely. If it is true that he was the centre of attention during the evenings at meal time and no one else could get a word in then why would he come across so moody and arrogant on the bus - true self showing and probably never thought for one moment that video would ever come to light again. If they were all in on the act why would the person who took the video let it be used because it certainly shows GM in a very bad light? Again just another line of thinking! I think GM knew well enough how to handle the police force in Portugal and I believe he knew that his friends and Priests in high places would support him - whatever. Every time I go down the accident line of events I keep coming to a halt when I get to the events that followed and their behaviour and body language and yes this could be fear but then how can you smile, laugh, have your hair done, go jogging, leave the twins in the creche and be sleeping soundly days after your beloved 3 year old has been abducted or has sadly passed away in an accident? You would have to show signs of distress and I for one have never seen any - that is why I believe it was planned. Again I am in no way 100% sure of this it is just the way my mind works and I am happy to hear everyone else's opinion even though it often put's a spanner in mine LOL - but that is why we have theories and as I said before finally one day we will have a theory with no holes and then that will be the day we finally say, this is it!!!

You do make an interesting point. I too have wondered why no one has spoken up.Perhaps releasing the video on the bus was someone's way of speaking up? Look Gerry is not all he seems. Do we know who took it?

Having said that I have seen the video on the bus, but I struggle to hear the word not in there. I someone said , he says F*** off I'm here to enjoy myself, I could probably accept that too. I would need a better PC screen and the ability to slow it down and really analyse his mouth movements. If the word "not" is really in there then surely people would know what he meant by that which means that they are complicit.

I totally agree the lack of emotions afterwards is bizarre, but surely if you have planned something as awful as you suggest, then you would have learnt your lines to the letter and you would be on script, on task and you would be seen to be grieving at every opportunity. I've always put their somewhat bizarre behaviour down to them being a pair of shallow, narcissistic sociopaths, covering their own backsides. Hey "if something happened to Madeleine while they weren't there, how would that be their fault?" "The situation Madeleine found herself in" was not of their making and they are not having their perfect little world destroyed because something untoward happened. People with Narcissism behave in a very different way the rest of us. They obviously struggled with parenting 3 small children. They didn't spend any quality time with their children on holiday and it was all about them jogging and playing tennis and eating out with friends. Perhaps Madeleine was very difficult and far from the perfect, much longed for baby the brochures promised. My theory is that something happened that in their minds was out of their control and they had a day, or two to come to terms with it and although sad, it was also a bit of a relief. Anyway, they are not at fault, it must have been God's will, but people will think they are, so they concocted a story that sort of accounts for an unexpectedly missing child and portrays them in the best light. The wronged parents who made one tiny mistake, that anyone could have made. Then they called in a lot of favours.......

Just had a thought. Perhaps you are right, perhaps they planned something , but events overtook them and it all went very badly wrong and that's why everyone's stories are completely off. They are OK working from a script, but things didn't go as per the script and they find stand up really hard.

Whatever happened it doesn't really bear thinking about. Poor little mite.

I agree with everything you say - see how confused you get LOL! Anyway yes I will find that video and have another really good look and listen and see if the not is def. there.

Also if as someone has gone onto say that they actually released it, was it then pulled once someone heard his lovely (in front of all those little ears) eff off comment! Of course it would still be available on youtube etc - do they still have it on their website?

by **tigger** 18.05.12 16:07

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Although this is not quite the front page link, it's HideHo's website, on which you will find an awful lot of info!

by Hummingbird 18.05.12 16:17

tigger wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Although this is not quite the front page link, it's HideHo's website, on which you will find an awful lot of info!

by Genbug 18.05.12 16:30

jd wrote:I tell you how smart jane tanner was....She knew her daughter was sick during the daytime but still left her on her own to go to the Tapas bar for her bottle of wine with her equally smart partner ROB! This was more important to this couple too

Then had the absolute audacity to complain about her abductor man carrying a child with no socks!! Beggars belief

JD, I still think the Worst Mother of the Year award should go to Rachael Oldfield. Not only was her 19 month old baby sick but Rachael didn't like checking on her because it was dark and scary!!

From her rogatory:

“Okay, and when you went to check on G***e, what sort of checks would you conduct”?

Reply “Erm well we’d go into the room, which ordinarily we wouldn’t do to be honest, erm but she seemed to have diarrhoea and kind of, I mean she’d settled quite well actually cos she’d been tired every evening, erm but every morning when she woke up, she had diarrhoea and it had gone right through her grow bag and so there’s all of this sort of horrendous smell, so in the evenings when we were checking, we’d go into the room just to see if you know, there was any sort of smell yet, erm and just to make sure she was alright, to make sure she hadn’t been sick, partly I think cos Matt had been sick, just wanted to make sure that she hadn’t been, in case it was some sort of bug”.

“Okay, and the route taken”?

Reply “Was up the road and then in through the car park at the back and in through the front door”.

“In through the front door”?

Reply “Mmm yeah, I mean the patio doors were locked, erm yeah I didn’t really like going up there by myself, it was, like going through that car park was quite dark and there was never anyone around, it was a bit, you know made me feel a bit uneasy”.

This woman has since had another baby. God help those poor children.

by Hummingbird 18.05.12 16:55

Genbug wrote:
jd wrote:I tell you how smart jane tanner was....She knew her daughter was sick during the daytime but still left her on her own to go to the Tapas bar for her bottle of wine with her equally smart partner ROB! This was more important to this couple too

Then had the absolute audacity to complain about her abductor man carrying a child with no socks!! Beggars belief

JD, I still think the Worst Mother of the Year award should go to Rachael Oldfield. Not only was her 19 month old baby sick but Rachael didn't like checking on her because it was dark and scary!!

From her rogatory:

“Okay, and when you went to check on G***e, what sort of checks would you conduct”?

Reply “Erm well we’d go into the room, which ordinarily we wouldn’t do to be honest, erm but she seemed to have diarrhoea and kind of, I mean she’d settled quite well actually cos she’d been tired every evening, erm but every morning when she woke up, she had diarrhoea and it had gone right through her grow bag and so there’s all of this sort of horrendous smell, so in the evenings when we were checking, we’d go into the room just to see if you know, there was any sort of smell yet, erm and just to make sure she was alright, to make sure she hadn’t been sick, partly I think cos Matt had been sick, just wanted to make sure that she hadn’t been, in case it was some sort of bug”.

“Okay, and the route taken”?

Reply “Was up the road and then in through the car park at the back and in through the front door”.

“In through the front door”?

Reply “Mmm yeah, I mean the patio doors were locked, erm yeah I didn’t really like going up there by myself, it was, like going through that car park was quite dark and there was never anyone around, it was a bit, you know made me feel a bit uneasy”.

This woman has since had another baby. God help those poor children.

Yes God help them!

How can she spurt such cr++!! My God if one of mine is ill during the night like that I get into bed with them and wait until I am sure they have 'done' what needs to be done and are peacefully asleep again. We have been on a short holiday with friends once before and our son threw up in the restaurant, quite vile but totally awful for him, my hubby ran to the nearest gift shop and bought him a clean t shirt whilst I cleaned him up as best as possible, our friends helped the restaurant owners and then myself , hubby, daughter and poorly son went straight back to the apartment and showered our son and put him to bed, we stayed with him. Of course our friends stayed and ate but we didn't once think 'oh our meal and drinks are more important than our sons well being' (he was perfectly fine the next day - just a bit of heat stroke - but you never know!)

I cannot for one minute think these statements about leaving sick babies are true, why would you want to make yourself sound like such a bad mother? Even if you did behave like that and leave them while they were sick WHY tell everyone you did?

by poppydog 18.05.12 17:13

Hi FH

In the bus video, Gerry is actually saying " F... off, jay think am here tae enjoy maself' which is Glasgow slang for Do you think I'm here to enjoy myself.

I'm a Glaswegian and I can guarentee you this is what he is saying. Maybe he was being ironic, but with an unusually hostile demeanor and inappropriate language for the settting!

On another note, a friend briefly worked with Kate in a maternity hospital as Kate was completing her training. Apparantly the consultant in charge loathed her and her narcassistic tendancies even then. Friend said she was the least maternal woman she'd ever met.

by **tigger** 18.05.12 17:17

poppydog wrote:Hi FH

In the bus video, Gerry is actually saying " F... off, jay think am here tae enjoy maself' which is Glasgow slang for Do you think I'm here to enjoy myself.

I'm a Glaswegian and I can guarentee you this is what he is saying. Maybe he was being ironic, but with an unusually hostile demeanor and inappropriate language for the settting!

On another note, a friend briefly worked with Kate in a maternity hospital as Kate was completing her training. Apparantly the consultant in charge loathed her and her narcassistic tendancies even then. Friend said she was the least maternal woman she'd ever met.

I read much the same thing about Gerry - same thing a friend of the poster (on another site) said when Gerry entered a room, most other would leave.
This person worked at Glenfield Hospital.

by Hummingbird 18.05.12 17:20

Isn't it funny how they seem to have so many friends then!! laughat

by Gillyspot 18.05.12 20:39

About Madeleine & her creche times.
Hayley Plumber

I got to know Madeleine and her parents Kate and Gerry at the nursery school. I also spent time with them socially because my boyfriend James is Kateâ€™s cousin. As a couple, James and I would take care of Madeleine and the twins in their house in Rothley about every two months, for a few hours each time. …

Madeleine initially went to the nursery in the mornings but as she got older she would spend the whole day on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at the nursery â€“ which she enjoyed very much. Kate would take care of Madeleine on Mondays and Fridays, often taking her for swimming lessons. I have known Madeleine for about three years and she was always under my responsibility at the Laurels nursery.

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When she was two and a half she joined the group supervised by me, I think it was in 2006, and she remained there for about 6 months. Madeleine attended on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays.

She would be dropped off between 08.00 and 08.30 and would return home at about 17.00. The dropping off and picking up was taken in turns by the parents and as a result of this Kate and Gerry asked me to take care of the children during the evening on some occasions. Kate would pick Madeleine up from the nursery at the end of the day and I would accompany them to their house. We would have tea and I would help give Madeleine her bath.

Kate and Gerry would go out and I would watch a DVD with the girl before telling her a bedtime story.

I think I did this about 5 times and on each occasion it was at their home in Rothley.

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Janet Kennedy

“Madeleine frequented the creche three times per week and the twins two times per week.

Kate returned to work two days per week and would be home on Fridays and Mondays. “

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So Kate worked 2 days a week & Madeleine was in creche 8.30 am to 5pm 3 days a week.

by **tigger** 11.05.14 9:12

Bumping this up as it has quite a lot of information in it. Very useful and imo one can ignore most friedtomatoes' posts, he left the building ling ago and is a good example of how to incite libellous comments from innocent posters.

I'd forgotten that Mampilly was married to MO long before the holiday. So that's where the importance of 'Healy' comes from? Booth, Mampilly, Healy... winkwink

Eta: where did they go on holiday in 2006?

by sallypelt 11.05.14 9:42

A little bit more information on Mamphilly.

R Mampilly married M Oldfield in 1999. In 2005 they had their daughter. Nothing unusual there, but what is VERY strange is, this child was registered TWICE. Once as Mampilly and once as Oldfield. This often happens when a child is born to a mother who isn't married, but puts the father's name on the birth certificate. So, if one is looking for an entry for a birth, and the mother isn't married to the father, there can be two entries, one under the mother's maiden surname (which is always the case in the registration of a birth) and one under the father's surname, if the father has been named on the birth certificate. There are other exceptions, but they aren't important at this moment in time.

Now back to R Mampilly and M Oldfield's daughter. WHY, when the parents are married are there TWO entries for their daughter? I have NEVER come across this before, and I have worked in this field for many years.

Maybe someone can come up with an explanation, because I am totally stumped

by canada12 11.05.14 10:04

You're right - how peculiar!

England & Wales, Birth Index, 1916-2005 Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: Xxxxx Xxxx X X Oldfield
Mother: Mampilly
Birth: Oct 2005 - Kingston upon Thames, Surrey

England & Wales, Birth Index, 1916-2005 Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: Xxxxx Xxxx X X Mampilly
Mother: Mampilly
Birth: Oct 2005 - Kingston upon Thames, Surrey

ETA: I've x'd out the names and initials but they're identical.

ETA: they're both the same registration number and page number, however, so it looks like a duplicate entry with exactly the same references for both. Even more peculiar.

by sallypelt 11.05.14 10:07

canada12 wrote:You're right - how peculiar!

England & Wales, Birth Index, 1916-2005 Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: Xxxxx Xxxx X X Oldfield
Mother: Mampilly
Birth: Oct 2005 - Kingston upon Thames, Surrey

England & Wales, Birth Index, 1916-2005 Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: Xxxxx Xxxx X X Mampilly
Mother: Mampilly
Birth: Oct 2005 - Kingston upon Thames, Surrey

ETA: I've x'd out the names and initials but they're identical.

Canada, the only explanation for the strange entries is that it has something to do with IVF babies, but that is ONLY my opinion, as I have no knowledge about IVF registrations, if there ARE such registrations that differ from "natural/normal" births

by Mirage 11.05.14 10:32

Genbug wrote:
jd wrote:I tell you how smart jane tanner was....She knew her daughter was sick during the daytime but still left her on her own to go to the Tapas bar for her bottle of wine with her equally smart partner ROB! This was more important to this couple too

Then had the absolute audacity to complain about her abductor man carrying a child with no socks!! Beggars belief

JD, I still think the Worst Mother of the Year award should go to Rachael Oldfield. Not only was her 19 month old baby sick but Rachael didn't like checking on her because it was dark and scary!!

From her rogatory:

“Okay, and when you went to check on G***e, what sort of checks would you conduct”?

Reply “Erm well we’d go into the room, which ordinarily we wouldn’t do to be honest, erm but she seemed to have diarrhoea and kind of, I mean she’d settled quite well actually cos she’d been tired every evening, erm but every morning when she woke up, she had diarrhoea and it had gone right through her grow bag and so there’s all of this sort of horrendous smell, so in the evenings when we were checking, we’d go into the room just to see if you know, there was any sort of smell yet, erm and just to make sure she was alright, to make sure she hadn’t been sick, partly I think cos Matt had been sick, just wanted to make sure that she hadn’t been, in case it was some sort of bug”.

“Okay, and the route taken”?

Reply “Was up the road and then in through the car park at the back and in through the front door”.

“In through the front door”?

Reply “Mmm yeah, I mean the patio doors were locked, erm yeah I didn’t really like going up there by myself, it was, like going through that car park was quite dark and there was never anyone around, it was a bit, you know made me feel a bit uneasy”.

This woman has since had another baby. God help those poor children.

From Genbug's post (my red bolding there):

"........partly I think cos Matt had been sick, just wanted to make sure that she hadn’t been, in case it was some sort of bug".

Matt stated in his rog that he became unwell on the Sat night. Rachael became ill on Tuesday night, he says, and was confined to the apartment on Wednesday (when he went on the lunchtime run with Kate). The logical thing would be for Rachael to say Matt had been ill first, then she had been ill for two days , ergo her concern that this was indeed a bug.

This from Matthew Oldfiled's rog. (Notice the rambling detail sets in again)

"Saturday I felt unwell, didn't eat much in the evening, which for a free buffet is pretty unusual for me, and then I started throwing up in the evening and I ascribed it to, when we were on the plane on the way out, they were giving out the meals and, you know, all the kids had been changing seats, so there was, I was sat with, erm, E***, which is, erm, Russell and Jane's eldest daughter and maybe E*** on one side and maybe G**** as well, but one of the meals that came round the plastic had already come off and it was in front of E*** and I said 'You have mine just in case there's something wrong with it' and so I blamed that I felt sick that perhaps I was right, it had sort of gone off or something. It may not have been, it may just have been a bug or something, but I usually don't get diarrhoea and vomiting, I mean, I can't remember the last time I've been sick. Erm, but I started feeling a little bit queasy in the evening and then the, erm, the Saturday evening into the Sunday morning I was actually throwing up, which is just incredibly rare for me. So I felt completely icky all the day Sunday, so I think to try and avoid infecting anybody else, I didn't do much outside the apartment and certainly in the evening I didn't go for, erm, didn't go for dinner with everybody else".

4078 "That is Sunday out the way with then".

Reply "So Sunday was pretty much a write-off and I was thinking, oh, the start of my holiday and I'm not doing anything that day".

4078 "Yeah. So Monday was really your first proper holiday day?"

Reply "So Monday would have been the first proper holiday day.

Then further on he talks about Rachael becoming ill.........................

Reply "Erm, no, I don't remember anything specific about, about that day. I mean, Rachael became ill on the Tuesday night. G**** had, the thing that would have made it really horrible, when I became unwell, was for everybody then to go down with D and V, and we were sort of very worried that it would go first to G**** and then to the kids and then back up to everybody and completely ruin the entire trip for everybody, and G**** had loose nappies nearly every day, but until after Madeleine went, erm, disappeared, she was never sick and on a couple of occasions then she was sick, but she had sort of fairly loose nappies. Rachael became I think unwell over the Tuesday night and was, erm, mostly sort of pottering about the apartment on the Wednesday. But, apart from that, I don't remember anything else about the Tuesday".

4078 "Okay. So, by the Wednesday then, Rachael was pretty much confined to the apartment, if you like?"

Reply "Yeah".

--------------------------------------------

So, on a week long holiday their baby has ongoing diarrhoea. The father becomes ill on arrival, throwing up. This claims the first two days of his holiday but he makes a remarkable recovery to go running with KH Wed lunchtime. Meanwhile, he has left his sick wife in the apartment with a sick baby. Are we expected to swallow much more of this utter drivel?

by HelenMeg 11.05.14 10:35

It is utter drivel, isn't it. Rachel and Matt - what an odious pair - as portrayed through their interviews, of course.
A more odious set of people you couldn't wish to find

by missbeetle 11.05.14 11:31

Did anyone ever get to the bottom of the Oisin Valentine Mccann oddity?

Also I read somewhere (old 3As archives?) of a Madeleine Rose McCann.

I do think there is something a bit IVF-y about this case.

by Cristobell 11.05.14 11:55

HelenMeg wrote:It is utter drivel, isn't it. Rachel and Matt - what an odious pair - as portrayed through their interviews, of course.
A more odious set of people you couldn't wish to find

Amen to that. They have been complicit in this charade for the past 7 years, They 'took' nearly £400k in damages from Express Group newspapers, albeit, they donated it to Kate and Gerry's Fund, and each day they refuse to co-operate with the police, they are bumping up the bill to UK taxpayers, currently estimated at around £10m.